OY VEY. T tomorrow.

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I need to tell him that I SI'ed past the limit that we made the deal on (I had a really difficult week with some slip-ups). I will tell him this in the beginning of the session, in case he needs to kick me out. If that happens, I guess all of the aforementioned stuff will be null and void.

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Yes pink i have read your posts, and you yourself said it here. I was interested when you posted about this SI contract a while back because I wondered if he would follow through with his stated boundaries. Sadly, he didn't. How is it helpful to you to have such a contract in place? If the number was not significant than what was the point in the limit?

I had a similar contract with my T and she followed through with the consequences. I know it was hard for her, but she did it for my own good. After all the contract was something we both agreed on to help me. I was angry, and I was testing her. I didn't believe she would actually do what she said she would. She cared enough about me to follow through. It was a turning point for me. I haven't SI'd in 17 years.

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He's very good.

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I have to disagree. I don't know your T but for what you write, but if you are accurately portraying him in your posts, he seems quite unprofessional.

If you want to agree or disagree with a situation that I posted about, that's fine.. but you really don't need to be rude and make critical statements about my therapy relationship. That's not what the boards are for. Thanks.

Thanks for your reply. I'm glad he respects your privacy.

Going off on a bit of a tangent here but I just noticed something. In my recent post, I mentioned that I called T this past weekend, as a way to stop cutting. In session I had told him that I feel as though cutting is somewhat of a violation of our relationship. In essence, I am trying hard to remember and rely on the relationship as a way to stay safe. In a recent session when I was dissociating and very, very upset, T just kept saying "stay with me." So what I do is try to conjure up his voice and that moment when I am feeling unsafe, whether it's an urge to cut or simply feeling very anxious.

Pink, this is very similar to what you initially proposed in your post and I thank you for the positive influence. It's actually brilliant, if you think about it. But it requires really going into the relationship and accepting it and holding onto it. I can't always do that but I will say that I feel so close to him today.

If the relationship is honest and true I think that this is the best path to stopping si'ing. It brings the human side into the forefront.

So, I think you have an awesome T and the "good enough" mother will always listen to her child before mandating punishment.

Peace

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MissCharlotte said:
So, I think you have an awesome T and the "good enough" mother will always listen to her child before mandating punishment.

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It's not punishment to follow through on an agreement that was put in place to HELP the patient, and which the patient agreed upon to help herself. Not doing so says that the contract was not serious to begin with.

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april15 said:
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MissCharlotte said:
So, I think you have an awesome T and the "good enough" mother will always listen to her child before mandating punishment.

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It's not punishment to follow through on an agreement that was put in place to HELP the patient, and which the patient agreed upon to help herself. Not doing so says that the contract was not serious to begin with.

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I think MissCharlotte was pointing out an ANALOGY. A lot of times in therapy, the focus is put on immediacy needs-- A good therapist will dicuss with a client to find out what is in the best interest of the individual in that moment-- as well as the effects in the longrun. Therapy situations are not prescribed-- just because you and your therapist did a contract one way, it doesn't mean that the exact same thing is going to work out for someone else.

April,

Try thinking of it this way:

The good enough mother is a flexible parent as well as a consistent one. So, say for example, a teenager confesses to her mother that she drank beer at a party last weekend. But the teenager asks the mother for HER time in discussing this issue at a session with a family therapist. Should the mother send the daughter to her room for a grounding or should she engage her daughter in conversation surrounding behavior that is dangerous?

It's not easy being a parent and it's not easy being a therapist and it's not easy being a patient (client). But when the client asks the therapist for help and is honest in his or her appeal, I just don't see how turning them away (even if it was agreed upon prior) does any good.

Inflexibiity in the relationship would lead to more disasters imo.

And yes, I was making an analogy.

Peace

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MissCharlotte said:
Inflexibiity in the relationship would lead to more disasters imo.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">This reminds me of how my T sometimes compares providing therapy to playing jazz. Both have certain melodies and rhythms and both require the ability to improvise. To swing with what happens when the two of us together create our music. Every client's song is different. T needs to improvise in creating riffs to match/complement the client's. So yes, flexibility in a T can be a valuable trait.

I think I really took his jazz analogy to heart, because a couple of times when I was totally giving him trust, that he could handle an upcoming difficult situation, I have said to him, "just improvise, I know you can do it." He sometimes looks a bit like, no I can't, give me something more to work with, sunny! But I have a tremendous amount of confidence in him and usually he does just great, and in fact, sometimes what he does amazes me. There have been a couple of times he screwed up in challenging situations (and he heard about it from me later!), but he's human, and overall he is a master jazzman.

I didn't see it as a boundary issue at all, did you?

My perception isn't always the clearest, so...

So right Miss Charlotte, a parent or a t need to be both consistant and flexible, which can sound like opposites. My t lets me know that she feels that SI is unacceptable, but also knows that I will probably slip up, just like everyone else. I would hate to think that one slip up would cause me to be kicked out. I think every situation is different and the reasons and circumstances need to be explored. Knowing that my t would be disappointed has kept me from SI at times, but I know that if I did mess up she wouldn't abandon me.

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complic8d said:
So right Miss Charlotte, a parent or a t need to be both consistant and flexible, which can sound like opposites. My t lets me know that she feels that SI is unacceptable, but also knows that I will probably slip up, just like everyone else. I would hate to think that one slip up would cause me to be kicked out. I think every situation is different and the reasons and circumstances need to be explored. Knowing that my t would be disappointed has kept me from SI at times, but I know that if I did mess up she wouldn't abandon me.


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I disagree. What's the point then of the contract? She's not a child, he's not a parent imposing punishment. They contracted together to set a limit on SI for her benefit, and then he didn't follow through with the agreed upon consequences. Now she knows she can go over the limit and nothing will happen. It's not abandonment to have consequences enforced. There's always next session to talk about sex with H and erotic transference. The original contract apparently meant nothing, just words. It's about being accountable for the choices you make, and having a contract with T is a powerful tool to help deter you from behaviors that are harmful to you. You don't have to make a contract if you don't like the terms. I don't think T meant it to be a threat ie. if you cut 36 times you will have to skip a session. She even picked the number!

I would like to remind all posters to please keep to the topic that that OP (original poster) had started. Any other further discussions off of the topic should be started in a new thread. Thank you.

Even though everyone seems to be saying this is ok, etc, I tend to agree that him not sticking to the contract seems to just void the reason for even having one at all. If there is no set number around the whole thing, and the number doesn't matter, then it should be removed and reworded.
I think he could have been supportive in understanding what was going on, etc, but the basis is still the contract was broken. The contract is worthless. It was meant to keep you "in line", it was about following-through with something, about consistancy, about feeling safe and having boundaries. Neither seem to be following the contract as it is written now.
The contract was made for you to be held responsible for your actions, and he didn't not hold up his end of the deal.
It can be deflected as many times with "but, but, but...", in terms of the contract, it was broken very clearly.

guys...please be nice.

Indicated in my original post, I wrote this to process and sort out some of the things I wanted to discuss with my therapist. Then I followed it up by a description of my session. As carefully as I look for where I asked for judgements about my therapist and our contract, I cannot seem to find it.

Instead of generalizing, maybe you should read into what I am feeling. Some of you were quick to say that my T was screwing with the boundaries, safety, trust, etc. Just because you might be someone who is extra sensitive to those things, does mean that I am. I am comfortable with the boundaries in my therapy, I know I am safe there, and I trust my T pretty much as must as I can trust someone-- so I don't get triggered or shaken up by these types of changes... to me it does not represent inconsistency; rather, it represents flexibility and mutual decision making.

My reasons for SI, my relationship with my therapist, and my personality, are much more complex than a contract. Some of you asked what the point of it was. Well, it was the only thing that got me to stop SI'ing for five weeks. Before that contract, I had SI'ed every single day for nine months straight. Last night, I concentrated on what T and I talked about-- I wrote him an email and left him a message in order to maintain my connection to him, rather than SI'ing.

I also wonder why you are so passionate about calling my T unprofessional and pointing out that he handled it "wrong." I am very comfortable with the way my T and I are going about this-- and if it works for me, I should think that's what matters most.

Oh, and you are right-- I can always talk about sex with H and erotic transference-- but it isn't a matter of it being in the "next session" because I should have gotten kicked out as a result of my behaviors-- it is about the open, authentic relationship that I share with my therapist.

I, personally, am in no way calling your T unprofessional. I understand the idea of him allowing you to stay.

As a reader I was voicing my opinion of concern in the fact of him allowing you to do this. The contract has helped you, obviously, for not SI'ing for 5 weeks. I just am concerned, if he let you slide this time, what stops it from happening again is all.

I know your T and you will sort this out between yourselves, where it's supposed to be sorted. Please do not feel my comment is an attack on your relationship - I was just genuinely concerned about what such a "slide" could mean.

I am, also, glad that the session did turn out to be playful and helpful. I just hope the contract to continue to be as strong as it was before to continue on recovering from self injury.

Pink, you brought this up, you told us about the contract, you talk about it in your OP and now you don't want to hear anything except what you want to hear. Borderlines LOVE to break the rules. They love when they can manipulate their T's into not enforcing boundaries.

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april15 said:
Pink, you brought this up, you told us about the contract, you talk about it in your OP and now you don't want to hear anything except what you want to hear. Borderlines LOVE to break the rules. They love when they can manipulate their T's into not enforcing boundaries.

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Wow, your immaturity level is incredible.

It also shows your lack of knowledge on BPD. Individuals with BPD don't "LOVE to manipulate." What people like YOU refer to as manipulation is actually a coping skill for individuals who haven't really learned how to ask for what they need, especially in relationships.

You have some serious issues with reading my posts, and handling the interaction that I have in therapy. Maybe you should stay away from them... too triggering for you, possibly.

Just relax-- no need to lash out and get all riled up by throwing a diagnosis in someone's face. There are a lot members here that have BPD and they probably wouldn't appreciate your comments... let's try to respect everyone.

One more thing, April-- I knew your name sounded familiar to me. I looked up your old posts and saw that pretty much teh only posts you have responded to have been the ones that I posted, where you decided that the boundaries with my therapist are in question. It just makes your opinion that much more invalid to me.

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Individuals with BPD don't "LOVE to manipulate." What people like YOU refer to as manipulation is actually a coping skill for individuals who haven't really learned how to ask for what they need, especially in relationships.

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Pinksoil, thank you so much for this! Not only for expanding on the concept of manipulation and for defending lovely people for whom the term Borderline PD applies, but I think you just helped me understand more about my current bout with depression. I've been trying to get to the bottom of it. I kept coming back to something I want from T that I can't have. I have asked and been told "No" and that's where I always leave it. I'm not as smart as MissCharlotte to know how to ask again in another way. My way is to drop it, never mention it again, suffer and feel like I deserve to suffer because of the shame I feel about having asked for something not possible. I think I am mourning a lot, including not knowing how to talk about what I want more. I can't have it but I can talk about it.

(((((((((((((( pink ))))))))))))))

(((((Echoes)))))))

I am not necessarily smart, just stubborn I think, and sometimes I perseverate and that sort of goes on and on and onnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn.

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perseverate • \per-SEV-uh-rayt\ • verb
*1 : to repeat or recur persistently
2 : to go back over previously covered ground

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Yeah, that I do.

I admire your courage in therapy.

April, Echoes & Pink--For the record, I identify with most of my bpd friends here on PC and so if I pushed I imagine i would probably get that dx as well. But I just don't give a rat's *** about labels, because people misconstrue their meaning and that can really hurt and cause distress toward others when they define a person by a diagnosis. Every single case of illness is individual.

We need to be careful about making assumptions about one another and using MI dx as a way to hurt. April -- your last post was quite offensive in that regard. Maybe you can do as Pink suggests and not read these threads as they clearly cause you a lot of distress.

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I am not necessarily smart

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Uh, I disagree.

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sometimes I perseverate

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post"> </font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
perseverate • \per-SEV-uh-rayt\ • verb
*1 : to repeat or recur persistently
2 : to go back over previously covered ground

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and I rest my case... see, ya had to include a definition for me!

It's good that you know what you want and don't give up easily MissC

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ECHOES said:

Pinksoil, thank you so much for this! Not only for expanding on the concept of manipulation and for defending lovely people for whom the term Borderline PD applies, but I think you just helped me understand more about my current bout with depression. I've been trying to get to the bottom of it. I kept coming back to something I want from T that I can't have. I have asked and been told "No" and that's where I always leave it. I'm not as smart as MissCharlotte to know how to ask again in another way. My way is to drop it, never mention it again, suffer and feel like I deserve to suffer because of the shame I feel about having asked for something not possible. I think I am mourning a lot, including not knowing how to talk about what I want more. I can't have it but I can talk about it.

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omg echoes, you just clarified this for me as well... i have been struggling with needs and not knowing how to get them met now that i feel like i'm getting flack from even my beloved md. I was starting to put the walls all back up again and the former part that was in control for years came back out - dealing with this change by drinking again. If I didn't have alters, I would be in the BPD boat and have many such tendancies from living with two BPD parents. I don't want to be like them, but I want to get my needs met... and so since I couldn't do either, I went back to poor coping skills so that i could numb the sense of my "Being manipulative". This has helped so much.

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pinksoil said:
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april15 said:
Pink, you brought this up, you told us about the contract, you talk about it in your OP and now you don't want to hear anything except what you want to hear. Borderlines LOVE to break the rules. They love when they can manipulate their T's into not enforcing boundaries.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Wow, your immaturity level is incredible.

It also shows your lack of knowledge on BPD. Individuals with BPD don't "LOVE to manipulate." What people like YOU refer to as manipulation is actually a coping skill for individuals who haven't really learned how to ask for what they need, especially in relationships.

You have some serious issues with reading my posts, and handling the interaction that I have in therapy. Maybe you should stay away from them... too triggering for you, possibly.

Just relax-- no need to lash out and get all riled up by throwing a diagnosis in someone's face. There are a lot members here that have BPD and they probably wouldn't appreciate your comments... let's try to respect everyone.

One more thing, April-- I knew your name sounded familiar to me. I looked up your old posts and saw that pretty much teh only posts you have responded to have been the ones that I posted, where you decided that the boundaries with my therapist are in question. It just makes your opinion that much more invalid to me.

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I have a friend with BPD, and he's been through a lot of crap just because ignorant therapists and psychiatrists have heavily stigmatized and stereotyped the disorder (nasty veterans affairs ergghhh).

I'm pretty sure your T knows what he's doing Pink. You'll know if he doesn't, I'm sure of it.