[chaotic13]

Do you know him or her?

I had therapy this week and I was talking about stuff and the mental noise that goes on in my head during different social interactions. I get really rattled when something happens that is somewhat deep and I am confused about how to interpret it. It is like I always look to the other person for clues on how to respond or behave, instead of just responding or behaving the way "I" want to. During this conversation I mentioned that I was reading a book about excavating the your authentic self. When I mentioned this, my T asked: Do you have a clear picture of who your authentic self is... and at that moment, with the anxiety of having to talk about personal stuff, my response was NO. But later, when i was home alone and journaling she seemed to surface fairly clearly or at least...the vision of who I would like to be more surfaced more clearly.

My question for the group today is do you know or have a good sense of who you are? Are you able to stay connected to that YOU, during therapy or when interacting with others? I think a lot of my anxiety comes because I tend to lose her (or protect/hide her) when interacting with others. I start looking externally for clues for how to interpret, react or respond to situations, instead of calling you out and choosing the appropriate reaction for myself. Does this make sense to anyone else?

[Sannah]

Makes total sense and I think that it is REALLY important too...... Do you understand why you lose her? This problem was one of the causes of my anxiety.

[Luce]

Yes, that makes perfect sense to me. I feel I can be authentic when I am alone. By authentic I mean... I can own and act upon my own true feelings, thoughts and ideas, and feel like my external actions match the internal me. I have DID, so I guess that has some bearing on it, too. In the privacy of my own home, without external demands from either people or tasks that need attention, I can be whoever / however I AM in any given moment. (Is that what other people mean by their authentic self? I am not sure).

Being with other people is immensely stressful for me, and I have not yet learned away to do that and remain connected to myself, or even as myself (ie: without switching). When with others I seem to automatically abandon myself and become whatever is required of me. Working on this is one of my written goals of therapy. As it stands I avoid whatever external contact I can, because I hate losing myself. I *want* to be authentic. I want to feel real and connected to the 'real me' in ALL situations.

So yeah - I think I know what you mean.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Luce

When with others I seem to automatically abandon myself and become whatever is required of me.

This makes sense ^ if your earlier environment required this to "survive".

Boundaries helped me to block out info from other people so that I could just focus on me and be authentic. Previously, I collected info about others in social situations that I did not need (what they wanted, what they were thinking, what they expected of me).

What you said makes total sense to me, Chaotic. My T talks about my "authentic self"....I think I have had glimpses of her, maybe, but I'm not sure.

I imagine my authentic self as being someone who is just comfortable being however she wants/needs to be in any situation, who is willing to stand up for herself and set boundaries without being afraid. My authentic self is probably more integrated then who I am right now.

I think the combination of growing up in an abusive household where I had to act how someone else wanted me to act all the time, and the dissociative coping stuff that I had to develop to deal with that has made it so I don't really HAVE an authentic self yet. That makes me kind of sad...

Good question, chaotic...

[hangingon]

Chaotic
Thats a good question, one that I struggle with as well. Just yesterday in session I was talking about how when I am with patient's at the hospital, I can go in with complete confidence and do what I have to do. That I interact with them so well. My instructor's are always commenting on how well I interact with my patient's.

Then she says to me, do you believe what they are saying, does it match how you feel? I said no, not at all. I told her that I feel like I live two seperate lives, that I can't show the real me. That I can't be intimate with people and told her how frustrating that is, putting on a strong front all the time.

So then ahe says "how would you describe yourself"? I got stuck, had no words. I had no idea how to decribe me. That was a crappy moment.
I told her more than anything, something that I really want to work on is showing the real me, being able to trust people, being able to be vulnerable when needed. To get to the place where I can actually be intimate with people.

[pachyderm]

Real me comes and goes -- but more comes, as time goes on. I am often able to maintain it even when with other people. They are not so scary!

[chaotic13]

Wow,
Thanks everyone! I've had 2 realatively low stress sessions in a row. At the start of my session this week my T and I were talking about how we've both noted a difference. Great right, right. The we moved into a little tougher topic..an experience I had recently at professional workshop. During this workshop, I actually voluneered to be a model during a demonstration that involved touch. HUGH, very uncharacteristic for me! So we were discussing this and of course my anxiety started to rise, especially since my T is asking probing questions and pressing me to verbalize the experience.I haven't figure out yet how to verbalize the details and separate myself from feeling them. (I know..that is probably why my T uses that technique with me--because when I'm actually being touched I kind of mentally check out. We are kind of working on getting me to not to be so quick to check out)

Anyway back to the authentic self thing...So during this part of the session I start feeling the weight on the chest. My T then asks "Why did you volunteer?" Now,my authentic self has a spiritual connection thing going on at the moment but I kind of don't go there with others. So I'm sitting on the couch and I don't want to say "It was a soul-directive" and jump into explaining what was really happening in my head when I volunteered Mouth sensors vetoed that voice. So I said "Because professionally, it was a good move."

Well after that the anxiety went up, the buzzing in my head started, and it was downhill from there. I must have pissed off my authentic self. She left the room and I in scrammble mode trying look for external clues to CORRECTLY answer internal questions.

[MissCharlotte]

Your post makes perfect sense. I do know part of my authentic self and I am looking for other parts of her. My traumatized child self gets in the way frequently, and then like you--the head noises move in.

I am finding that as my therapy continues, I am finding more and more of my authentic self, and I can hang onto her more and more. What is the name of the book you are reading? It sounds interesting.

[chaotic13]

The book I'm reading is Something More by Sarah BanBreathnach. She also wrote a daily read book called Simple Abundance. I like this one because at this time of year I don't have a lot of time to do personal reading. I can manage 1-2 pages per day.
I'd really like to able to maintain a connection with this authentic me.I'm not sure why I am so afraid people will reject her. I feel like if I could just stay connected to her and trust that what she thinks and chooses to do, will not cause me to be judged a total freak maybe I wouldn't be so lost when in different situations.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by pachyderm

Real me comes and goes -- but more comes, as time goes on.

Pachy...I read this yesterday and then again to day... I really like it. This is what I am hoping will happen too.

Thanks.

Sannah said:
Do you understand why you lose her? This problem was one of the causes of my anxiety.

I'm not sure but I think lose her when I deny what she is telling me or am too fearful to act in accordance with it. I think it is kind of like pushing the mute button.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

do you know or have a good sense of who you are? Are you able to stay connected to that YOU, during therapy or when interacting with others?

wow what questions.

Do I have a good sense of who I would like to be? yes.
Do I have a good sense of who I am? yes, but it is unforrtunately not at all the same person. Am I able to stay connected to the who-I-am person during therapy - sometimes - or with others - sometimes..

the thing is, being the person I know myself to be is **** depressing. It doesn't get better when T tells me she doesn't see that person, that I am really the person I say I would like to be. don't know whether this makes sense...

[Junerain]

I was always too authentic, always me, eccentric me, at all costs...this thus cost me many jobs...fifty-two to be exact...always being told I was too eccentric to fit in..

It is just now I am developing my present- to- the world self. a little less eccentric, keeping my bright smile though This new present-to-the world self is much more mature, ready to react to any situation, I was always thoughtful, yet now, I can be thoughtful towards the uneccentric, not expect people to be as outgoing as I am, learn to accept the quiet people in this life awww

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I am so afraid people will reject her.

cause me to be judged a total freak

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I think lose her when I deny what she is telling me or am too fearful to act in accordance with it.

So you are afraid that who you are isn't right or good enough?

[chaotic13]

Junerain said:I was always too authentic, always me, eccentric me, at all costs..

Ahhh... I remember this me. Now, she had a lot of fun and knew who to let go!

I think of her often when I hear this song on the my ipod and think where the heck is she when I need her.

Junerain... it is important to have a present-to-the-world professional clone. Just be sure you don't completely identify your SELF as being just her.

[Junerain]

no worries.......Junerain has no problem being Junerain when 3pm hits and nursing school is over for the day.....kick back and yes, watch music videos, and yes, CHOOSE who gets to be included in my week-end plans!!

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by Sannah

So you are afraid that who you are isn't right or good enough?

Yeah, that is probably the bottom line.

I think maybe I hide her behind the mask of the unflappable, superficial, or indifferent so she is protected from harm. If someone rejects, appears disgusted or appalled by me then I can tell myself... it doesn't matter because they don't really know ME, they are not REALLY rejecting ME.

sittingatwatersedge said: the thing is, being the person I know myself to be is **** depressing.

The weird thing to me is.... On the surface I judge her as being weird, a freak, too emotional, unlikeable, and weak. I assume others will judge her this way too..or in my case worse. But when I am still, and I really look at her...I LIKE HER and think my friends would really like her.

Unfortunately...I think a lot of my negative perceptions come from my H. And I think that is because he just either cannot really related to her or her presence just makes him feel worse about his situation or behavior...I really don't know. She seem to hurt him for some reason. When I have share little glimpses of her to him...he seems negatively affected, which then makes me wish I hadn't gone there.

It doesn't get better when T tells me she doesn't see that person, that I am really the person I say I would like to be.

My T doesn't tell me that I am who I want to be...probably because I've never shared with her...who I REALLY want to be . But she does say things like: "Your friends sound really great, you must be doing something right." or "Wow, I wonder if your friends saw this picture, would they know that it was you?" or "If you really are what you think you are, why do you think you have the friends you do?"

My response..."Hmmm, maybe they aren't as intelligent as I think they are.

How does my T still manage to deal with me? I don't know somehow I was programmed to think that I am a bad egg, and I just can't seem to deeply accept any other conclusion.

[peaches100]

Chaotic,

I understand what you're talking about. Feeling like you want to be yourself, but lose sight of who you are at times. Or, knowing how you feel, but allowing fear of rejection, anxiety, or other people's expectations to cause you to speak/behave differently from the way you really feel. Especially if you've grown up learning to be what others want you to be! It can happen so automatically. . .conforming to others' expectations. . .that it can sometimes be hard to even "catch yourself" doing it! It takes practice to stay attuned to one's thoughts and, before answering, ask yourself, "How do I really feel about this?" And then having the courage to follow through authentically.

My personality is rather fragmented, which can make it hard for me to know my authentic self. Is it the apparently normal, in control persona that runs my daily life? Or is it the wounded, hurt little girl part of me that holds tremendous insecurity and fear, and who I hide at all costs from others finding out about? Is it both. . .but they are at opposite ends of the spectrum. . .and I have not found a way to integrate them? Perhaps if I integrated my different self states, then "that" would be my authentic self. I just don't know.

I find that my feelings and opinions can vary greatly, depending upon what mode I am in. At the time, it feels truly authentic. But then I swing back from secure adult to insecure child, and then that also feels authentic. So it can be confusing for me and make me appear wishy washy to others. I really want to be more united.

Still . . .not everything about me flip flops and is in a constant state of flux. I do have some firm opinions, religious beliefs, and personal values that maintain pretty well in tact. And there are some things that i truly love to my soul, such as poetry and music. I believe these things extend to all parts of me and must be part of my authentic self.

Can you pinpoint how and when you are likely to reject your authentic thoughts and feelings? At times you've done this, what goes through your head? Do you "catch yourself" doing it, or only realize afterward that you held back your true self? What feels worse, to hide your authentic self and feel isolated and not truly known. . .or to express yourself authentically and take the risk of other people rejecting or not understanding?

No pressure to answer all these questions. Just so much food for thought. Excellent subject!

[Junerain]

Peaches I really relate to what you wrote..

...fragmented is not necessarily a bad thing, to be a wounded child when with close friends, in control when not, I have found this to work for me..

authentic meaning yes, authentically always believing in God, always loving music, yet_....authentically knowing 'just the moment..' when to jump into the fragment that is wounded, the fragment that is in control..

with my patients at the hospital I _have to be in control....

yet with others that are not close friends (that includes family) I have to also be in control...

Time to be wounded? Yes when with close friends, time to cry, time to bawl, time to admit I need to walk around in the middle of dinner just because I have problems sitting still, Jen, Lia, Katelyn they know this about me and are ok with this trait of mine, accepting it..

................here's to our authentic selves......

[Can't Remember]

I do this too. I tend to mirror the other person. I like what they like, i laugh if they laugh, etc. Done it so long I worry if there is a me in there or if there's nothing.

[Simcha]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

Yeah, that is probably the bottom line.

I think maybe I hide her behind the mask of the unflappable, superficial, or indifferent so she is protected from harm. If someone rejects, appears disgusted or appalled by me then I can tell myself... it doesn't matter because they don't really know ME, they are not REALLY rejecting ME.

The weird thing to me is.... On the surface I judge her as being weird, a freak, too emotional, unlikeable, and weak. I assume others will judge her this way too..or in my case worse. But when I am still, and I really look at her...I LIKE HER and think my friends would really like her.

Unfortunately...I think a lot of my negative perceptions come from my H. And I think that is because he just either cannot really related to her or her presence just makes him feel worse about his situation or behavior...I really don't know. She seem to hurt him for some reason. When I have share little glimpses of her to him...he seems negatively affected, which then makes me wish I hadn't gone there.

My T doesn't tell me that I am who I want to be...probably because I've never shared with her...who I REALLY want to be . But she does say things like: "Your friends sound really great, you must be doing something right." or "Wow, I wonder if your friends saw this picture, would they know that it was you?" or "If you really are what you think you are, why do you think you have the friends you do?"

My response..."Hmmm, maybe they aren't as intelligent as I think they are.

How does my T still manage to deal with me? I don't know somehow I was programmed to think that I am a bad egg, and I just can't seem to deeply accept any other conclusion.

Hehehe... I had to laugh.

I come from a physically and emotionally abusive family background, and what you describe about not knowing how to act and having to look for clues from others, as well as feeling programmed to consider yourself a bad egg, is VERY common from people who come from some sort of abusive background.

I don't know why I don't buy into the "I'm a bad egg" theory, but I think it has to do with being damned if I do and damned if I don't. Frankly, I don't give a rats arse anymore. I'm not really sure why I know that to be the truth, that they were the ones with insane demands and ridiculous behaviors, and not me... but I was able to extricate myself from the situation and have had limited contact for quite some time. I'm also "In Therapy" and I think that's helped cement a lot of my internal dialog. I think staying away from negative influences/people has helped me too.

I like me. I don't need approval from "them" anymore. Maybe that's a simplistic explanation, but there it is. I don't fit into anyone's mold but my own.

[chaotic13]

Can'tRemember, I think this is fairly common. For me, I feel like when I lose my sense of self and start looking outside of me for the "correct" behaviors. Kind of like when in Rome do as the Romans.

During my session this week I was talking about an interaction with a friend. A situation occurred where she said something that wigged me out a bit. I got confused about how to intrepret the exchange and slipped into my distant, unflappable mode and when I couldn't clear up my confusion, I withdrew. I should have just taken a moment to check in with myself and the discussed my confusion with my friend. But I didn't want to get myself in a situation where I showed my confusion or risked hurting my friends feelings.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

A situation occurred where she said something that wigged me out a bit. I got confused about how to intrepret the exchange and slipped into my distant, unflappable mode and when I couldn't clear up my confusion, I withdrew. I should have just taken a moment to check in with myself and the discussed my confusion with my friend. But I didn't want to get myself in a situation where I showed my confusion or risked hurting my friends feelings.

Good scenario to work on with your T.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I think a lot of my negative perceptions come from my H. She seem to hurt him for some reason. When I have share little glimpses of her to him...he seems negatively affected, which then makes me wish I hadn't gone there.

No wonder you don't want to let her out. This sounds like something to focus on and figure out?

[Kiya]

I have to read a lot of Parker Palmer's books for school - you might find those interesting... also "The Congruent Life" - can't remember the author... I've got plenty more where those came from if interested... oh and Thomas Merton, another great author.

Your's is a hard question to answer - I, too, feel it changes often or hides....

[SpottedOwl]

(((chaotic13)))

Great thread!
I just caught up reading through it, and it made me think of 'The Power of Now' by Tolle. He says there is our true self and our 'pain body'. When our pain body is in control, that is when life feels out of control. The pain body lives in either the past or the future, but the true self lives in the now.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

My question for the group today is do you know or have a good sense of who you are? Are you able to stay connected to that YOU, during therapy or when interacting with others?

I'm working on it. The most powerful sessions I have these days are when I can stay connected to my core self. It is still scary, because it means living in *that* moment. I really have to trust myself and T enough to know that whatever comes up, it will be ok.

Those days when I just talk about what has happened or might happen, I am missing out on the moment, and not really connecting as deeply. Little by little my awareness is raising and I'm able to quiet my pain body and be more in the moment both in and out of therapy.

(If you can't tell, this book has been hugely influential for me. I find the pain body analogy something that makes a lot of sense, and when you are able to really just 'be' in the moment, it is an amazing thing.)

Yes, it all makes a lot of sense to me!