[sittingatwatersedge]

Y'all asked me to come back on this, yes I did go to see T yesterday About the subject that set me off so much in our Friday phone call, she didn’t bring it up at all. Toward the very end I said, about that - yes of course we can talk about it. It’s only something that I’ve been harangued for most of my life, and if you want to see some real transference, that’s the way to do it all right…. I feel that it has to do with this fear, and this one.
So I know we will get into it, and I am OK with that (note: because of your help, PC).

But even without that, yesterday was very hard. She had told me on Friday that through all the years we’ve looked at, up to age 20 or so, I was one person on the outside, and on the inside completely different, that I made sure that I was whoever I needed to be in order to keep going. This has been growing on me ever since – what reason do I have to think I am any different now? Which comes down to, who the heck is in here?!
I remember leaning forward, looking right into her eyes, and saying, don’t you know?? As in, don’t you have the answer? because I don’t.
And I cannot for the life of me remember what she said (if anything).

I thought I knew who I was. But the more I get into this, the more uncertain I become, and the “completely different” she refers to is not what I want to be at all. This is scary to me, folks. At one point I got very upset and had to stop...I remember saying “I am not comfortable with crying in front of you, I’m fighting it,” and she just waited for me while I fought it and said very quietly, “that’s OK.”

For only the 2nd time in 15 months I left her office very down; and worse, she looked very unhappy also, maybe I should say concerned.

[chaotic13]

(((Sitting))) As you know I've been struggling with trying to get the inner me to become more of who I want her to be and at the same time trying to make my inner and outer world more alike. For me I haven't been so concern about peeling back the layers and finding nothing. I've been worried that what lies under all the layers is something awful and rotten to the core. Honestly, some of the layers have been pretty "ripe". Maybe the you that is currently visible to your T, is just one of the layers.If you don't like it, keep digging.

In my mind...the onion core is not a fixed or solid thing. Who we REALLY are is formless and dynamic--constantly evolving. I think even when we dig to a layer we like and decide to stay there for a while, we need to accept that it is likely to continue to change. Nothing is static, IMO.

[Sannah]

Sitting, this is deep.......... Of course you have a center, the person you really are. Why don't you like her?

[peaches100]

Sitting,

I hear you saying that you're feeling afraid to realize how incongruent your inside and outside are. I know you didn't like hearing that your inner life and the way you portray yourself to others is "completely different." But please remember a couple of things. First, that it is a huge step even to begin realizing you have inconsistencies. Many people go through life with no self-awareness, not even knowing they have inconsistencies within themselves or between the inner person and the outer person. You are beginning to look at this "differentness." Though it is scary, as you become more aware of it, and as you talk about it with your t, you will have much more insight into yourself.

Second, please remember that the main reason you have this inconsistency between your inner life and outer actions is because you did not feel allowed to be yourself. You learned over time that it was not safe to do so. So you became what others wanted you to be on the outside, while shielding the real person you are inside (or perhaps even pushing it out of your own awareness). Now, you and t have some exciting uncovering work to do. You may uncover parts of yourself that feel unacceptable or bring up pain. But you will also discover precious, good parts of yourself you may have buried long ago.

It is going to take a great deal of emotional safety in order for you to learn how to let your words and actions match what you feel inside. Within the safety of the t's office is a place for you to experiment in doing that. In time, you may feel safer to begin expressing yourself to others more authentically. But you will need to learn who it is safe to reveal your inner thoughts and feelings to. Some people will not deserve it. You must learn how to test the waters, so to speak. Be cautious who you entrust your heart to.

Once you've healed and feel more whole, you will have a good sense of who you are and how you feel. You will not feel so conflicted or confused inside. At that time, you won't be hiding who you are, out of fear of rejection or feeling like you have to be somebody else to please others. You will be able to express your true self. But you will continue to need to protect that inner self from those who would be damaging to you. . .choosing only to reveal that inside tender you with those who have proven over time that they are trustworthy.

You are on an exciting journey of self-discovery! Try not to be afraid. You are going to learn so much.

[MissCharlotte]

((sitting))

I was always in awe of women who "thought who they were" and could march into a restaurant or shop and demand something they wanted; or the women who could go to the boss and tell them they were worth more and why and GET THAT RAISE.
I used to think, "Gee, they are full of themselves!"

Now, I know they were true to themselves.

At your core is the beautifll heart and soul you were born with. The gorgeous creature that is Sitting. You just haven't seen her in a long time so you think the onion is empty. But, guess what? You're not an onion at all. You are something much sweeter.

Our core wounds are painful and they conspire with our ego to protect us from that pain and suffering. It took me soooo long to begin to reveal true feelings in therapy and clearly as you can see from my posts, I am still getting there. I really understand the frustration of T not being able to fix things. Sometimes I want to just scream at him, '"FIX ME ALREADY!"

Be good to yourself, and take your time. It will come and you will begin to slowly know yourself from the inside out this time.

[sunrise]

I think one of the central goals of my therapy was for the inside and outside selves to become more congruent. I don't think we ever really articulated that much but it underlaid everything. We didn't work on it consciously, or at least I didn't. We never said, sunny, what can you to do to become more congruent? and then made a list and tried those things. We weren't goal directed at all. But one of the big benefits of therapy for me, is that through therapy, somehow, my inside and outside have become more congruent. I think part of it was I was so shut off from my feelings. And through therapy I have learned to (sometimes) recognize I am feeling a certain way. Before I just felt nothing. As I learned to know if I was feeling something and to actually know what it was, I had a bigger challenge to learn how to express that. I still am not good at this stuff at all, but I am so much better. Being able to express how my inner self is feeling makes my outer self come into sync with my inner. It's actually great, and I really like it. It takes so much less energy to simply be who you are. When I wasn't who I am, I was, unknown to myself, spending tremendous effort to not feel and to not express feelings ("holding it all inside"). It is just so nice to feel something and to express it. I find now that I can't even do some of the holding feelings inside that I used to, or act contrary to how I am feeling. It's like I've become physically unable to do that. I remember telling that to T once when he asked me to do something. I said, no, that would be contrary to how I feel about that, and I can't do that. Do you want me to pretend? Do you want me to lie? No, he didn't, and he said I can't do that anymore because I have become more congruent.

So, sitting, I think what I am saying, is that congruence is a great thing that can come out of therapy. It may take a long time to make progress and you may not even know you are changing. But one day you find yourself more congruent. Keep going.

[madisgram]

((satwe))), so many good thoughtful replies. for me, i am not the same person i was when i started into therapy. some things i still "own" i want to change. some i still want to hold onto for some more emotional pain and then i'll discard them too perhaps. so for me it's not the destination that is important but the journey.. .sometimes the journey is scary but once i got underway i don't want to go back. one of the biggest rewards for me has been that i have learned to love the person that i am just at this moment, yes, with my shortcomings too, cause i know now i can grow and "become."
i have to add a little funny here...it was u that prompted me to start that other thread...and you've expounded on it. self discovery and exploration is so rewarding.

[Perna]

Don't forget, how you "act" in the world is behavior, not "you". You are only inside and You are the only one who can "know" You. However, it's easy to forget/lose/focus somewhere else (outside or on what others say) and feel you don't know who You are.

My T was helpful telling Me to "check your heart" and giving Me space and time to do that when she'd ask a question of Me. It takes time though to discover and hear your inner voice. But realizing that no one "outside" you can truly tell you what you think and feel, only what they perceive watching and listening to you is a great first step, lets you know that you're the expert on You and that you're in there. . . somewhere :-)

Putting it in the words of your title, An onion is still an "Onion" with no center!

[phoenix7]

the onion has a center - beneath the pain and the person you built to keep you safe is the kind caring person we all know - what you used to protect you becomes null and void as you get through whats happened in your life in therapy.

I dont like the "after" the incident me - I dont want to be her - sometimes I feel like there is no real me there - but every now and then somthing happens to remind me that somthing of me still remains hidden waiting for when its safe - I think that is similar for you - when you feel safe the real you can come out to play and we will be here for you with the ball or game ready to play too.

((((((((((((((((((((((((sitting)))))))))))))))))))))))))

Wow, so many wise and thoughtful replies, I don't even know what to add!!

I do agree with sunny....without working on it consciously, I think my insides and my outsides are starting to line up a little bit more....and I am starting to learn who I actually AM inside....so many years of having to "pretend" does leave us sort of guessing what is real and what isn't.

You are asking big, thoughtful questions, and you are working so hard.

I guess all I can really add is a lot of well-deserved because no matter what layer of the onion you are on, we can see that you are a beautiful and kind and lovable person.

[searchingmysoul]

(((((((Sitting)))))))

You absolutely have a core, a true essence of who you are. Others have responded far better to this than what I can do at this point. But I want you to know that I believe in you and I feel that you have been very much your true self here.

[imapatient]

Sitting, I can totally relate.

Something my T said one time in disagreement when I was talking about this was "There's a person in there."

It helped to hear that so simply put.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by imapatient

Sitting, I can totally relate.

Something my T said one time in disagreement when I was talking about this was "There's a person in there."

It helped to hear that so simply put.

Say that a child can only survive growing up by presenting a good obedient outside, when inside there is huge resentment and anger at the injustice he knows to be the truth.
Suppose this continues during all the home years, say up through age 21 when he graduates college and goes out into the world.

By that time, as he becomes an adult, has he not developed the habit of wearing a false persona? Since he learned to lie early (and well), and continued lying for so many years, is he now just fundamentally a liar? and will always be one?

[searchingmysoul]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

Say that a child can only survive growing up by presenting a good obedient outside, when inside there is huge resentment and anger at the injustice he knows to be the truth.
Suppose this continues during all the home years, say up through age 21 when he graduates college and goes out into the world.

By that time, as he becomes an adult, has he not developed the habit of wearing a false persona? Since he learned to lie early (and well), and continued lying for so many years, is he now just fundamentally a liar? and will always be one?

Sitting, it certainly seems as though these ways we have learned to survive "make us" to be one way. A fundamental or intrinsic place of being. Maybe I am just an optimist, but, I believe that fundamentally I am whatever is inherent to my soul and personality and the rest are ways I learned to cope and to survive. While they may, right now, seem fundamental and insurmountable, I believe that I do possess the power and resources to unlearn what it is that I "learned" in order to survive.

Next week I may feel different, but right now there is much hope.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by searchingmysoul

Sitting, it certainly seems as though these ways we have learned to survive "make us" to be one way. A fundamental or intrinsic place of being. Maybe I am just an optimist, but, I believe that fundamentally I am whatever is inherent to my soul and personality and the rest are ways I learned to cope and to survive. While they may, right now, seem fundamental and insurmountable, I believe that I do possess the power and resources to unlearn what it is that I "learned" in order to survive.

Next week I may feel different, but right now there is much hope.

wow, Searching, thank you so much for this.
it gets kinda dark out sometimes.

[MissCharlotte]

Say that a child can only survive growing up by presenting a good obedient outside,

I would say that child is brilliant and protecting his inner core.

By that time, as he becomes an adult, has he not developed the habit of wearing a false persona?

Well, yes. I remember feeling like an imposter through most of my life until recently. It is because we were so good at protecting ourselves that we sort of forgot who we are--not that we don't exist.

is he now just fundamentally a liar? and will always be one?

Nah. I like to think of it like searching does. I want to believe that the "lies" are really an armor we built up for protection and that we will find our true selves.

[velcro003]

This thread reminds me of something my T and I fundamentally disagree on with me. She seems to think I have feelings so buried down there, that I am paying a high "psychological price" for it, but I disagree with her. My life has been pretty benign, it is ok right now, not great, not terrible. That is me. I don't have this hidden trove of feelings deep down as T seems to think. I don't have a "center". I don't know, its hard to explain, but I just don't think I have all these unresolved things. It is true that I'm "stuck" in life, but that is just because I'm a big wuss and afraid of ANY risk or change. So, of course, that is going to lead me to feeling stuck.

[searchingmysoul]

Originally Posted by sittingatwatersedge

wow, Searching, thank you so much for this.
it gets kinda dark out sometimes.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by Sittingatwatersedge said:

...[FONT=Arial

By that time, as he becomes an adult, has he not developed the habit of wearing a false persona? Since he learned to lie early (and well), and continued lying for so many years, is he now just fundamentally a liar? and will always be one?

[/FONT]

Yes, he has developed this habit and is a liar. But if he is sitting at the water's edge looking at his reflection and acknowledging that and not liking that person....then who HE really is, is something separate. He is someone who recognizes the false front and the lies. And in your case has already begun to take actions to not always be this way.

velcro...I frequently feel like you discribe. Especially the part about being a big wuss and never having taken the change to put myself out there enough to have deep feelings for anything. I sometime think...the reason I don't cry or remember either tender/loving or sad moments from the past is...because there were none. I had heart or soul back then. And in actuality... maybe I didn't. For the longest time I thought I was one of those people who had some type of brain damage to the amygdala region that made me incapable of having real emotions. Then I realized if that were true how could I be so upset and feel so guilty about it.

I think recently I am finding that I in fact do have some ability to feel. I'm not sure if I will find that I had a soul in the past, but I least I found one in the present.