[chaotic13]

During my last therapy session I had shared some symptoms I'd been struggling with. I think I was looking for her to tell me, "Chaotic, the symptoms and emotions you are decribing are very common for people like you." But, she didn't really directly say this. So two days later as I typically do now, I send her an email and the exchange goes something like:

Chaotic: 'Are these symptoms really common?' I know I tried to asked you this during the session, but I'm not sure if you really answered affirmatively or not?'

T's reply: 'Yes, these are common symptoms for someone who has suffered childhood abuse. I'm sorry I didn't specifically and directly clairify that for you.'

Chaotic: 'Thanks for being clear. You don't have to answer this question until I come in again. During the session, did you get that this is what I was asking? If so, did you answer my question and I just couldn't hear or comprehend it?

Well, my T chose to immediately respond and it kind of crushed my recent illusion that I was doing so much better in communicating with her during out sessions.

Here was her response:

Chaotic... I suspect certain things regarding you and your past but you have
NEVER clearly stated what you experienced and at times denied that you were SA. ( i use that for your sake). Since I am not exactly clear what you endured or how it affected you I can't clearly state what would be a normal reaction. I think you have told me more than you have ever told anyone before, and I do understand the difficulty in sharing, you still have left many gaps.



There was more to this message. I've just sat on this for a few days. I am just wondering...where do I go from here? I am not upset with anything she wrote. Actually as I reflect on it, its accurate and I know it. I've been just struggling so hard to get stuff out and now I don't know what to try next.

[darkrunner]

((((((((((chaotic)))))))))))))))

It sounds like things are really frustrating for you right now, and that is completely understandable. The work you are doing with your T sound difficult and it seems like you are trying your hardest. I hope you can be patient with yourself and give yourself

I like what your T said here:

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I think you have told me more than you have ever told anyone before, and I do understand the difficulty in sharing, .

This sounds like you've made progress, even if it is just a little bit. That is good!! Do you know how you were able to do this?
She sounds like a caring T who has your best interests at heart.

I've been just struggling so hard to get stuff out and now I don't know what to try next

The struggle is so hard and sometimes it is tempting to just give up. Have you tried writing things down? It seemed like your email exchange with T was helpful.
Also talking about the process might help, such as talking about WHY it is such a struggle.

[pegasus]

(((((((( chaotic )))))))))

I wonder if you can view this exchange with your T a little differently. You took great courage to email your T to clarify something, this is a big step and is progress. You wanted an answer from your T and she confirmed that there are gaps.

This is progress and gives you much to work on in the next sessions.

[Mouse_]

Chaotic, I'm not sure where the problem lies here? Your in therapy because of "stuff" and not always filling the gaps is normal...but with time they do get filled....

[chaotic13]

Kgirl... For me, it was very important that my T chose to include this line. It made me feel like she really appreciated that I was trying and how difficult this has been for me to even get this far. With that line in there...I couldn't read the message with a sarcastic... "don't blame me for not giving you what you wanted, that's what happens when you don't tell me what is really going on."

pegasus... I do see this exchange as indicating some progress. Honestly, for the last two sessions I've felt like I've been telling my T stuff and she is just not "getting" where I am. As I was reflecting on that after the last session, it make me really ask myself:"Am I really saying, out loud what is running through my head? Am I using vague general statements and assuming that she knows what I mean? Am I asking her to make accurate inferences, when I haven't provided enough specific information?" I guess I have the answer to those questions.

Mouse_... I know this. I guess I am just wondering how I want to address these communication gaps. At first I sat and typed out in as clear terms as I could, exactly all the ugly things I remember happening in my childhood. I thought of sending this, but then I said NO. 1) I think any one of us could go back and retrieve a list of negative, awful experiences and things we did or was done to us throughout childhood. Giving someone a list...isn't dealing with it. 2) I think my T was giving me a little nudge in her email. She DOES know about a lot of the facts. I've really communicated directly, and clearly with her via email. We've just never been able to clearly talk about and discuss them.

The other option I considered was to go into the next session, asks where the gaps are and fill them in. But, then I don't know if this is the right approach either. Me asking, "what do you need to know to enable you to help me get rid of this baggage?" does seem right. She doesn't NEED to know anything, she could careless about my baggage. I'm the one who knows what thoughts or topics I tend to avoid. If I really want her help I need to have the guts to say, "I remember this, and it really bothers me."

Next I considered going in and just starting from the very beginning and tell every single detail I can remember. But this will like result in me spending time retelling the things I am comfortable with (being a hyperactive monster child, bah..bah...bah..) and never getting to the real gaps. This approach... seems like it would take another year.

Finally, I considered just saying the heck with the past, its the past, its not important to really understand it all, I should just focus my energy on what things are bothering me "TODAY" in the here and now. Then if it seems like it is related to an incident in the past... I can go back and fill in the gaps, explore, and verbally discuss how it may be affecting me.

Then of course there is part of me that is just saying, "*&^% this! You tried long enough, this must be something that is not meant to be resolved at this time, move on."

See... I've been running through different approaches and starting places.

The good news is... I'm frustrated and concerned about my failure to communicate. But I'm not hurt by her honesty, feeling like a total loser, or feeling like she was saying--"I've tried to help you; but you are helpless." I feel like, it is totally up to me how I choose to proceed and my T will sit and going along with it. I guess this is progress too.

[peaches100]

Chaotic,

I see the email exchange as a good step forward. It helps you see that what you try to tell your t is somehow lost in translation, either because you haven't been specific enough in describing your issues, or because she is somehow not "getting it." Now you can think about ways you might divulge just a little bit more in a way that feels safe for you. It's really your call how much you want to tell her, or if you want to say anything about certain subjects. But if discussing it in more detail is necessary in order to rid yourself of pain or shame, it will benefit you to think about how you and t might begin doing this in small steps.

[sittingatwatersedge]

Originally Posted by Mouse_

Chaotic, I'm not sure where the problem lies here? Your in therapy because of "stuff" and not always filling the gaps is normal...but with time they do get filled....

thanks, Mouse, my thoughts too. It takes time to get the "gaps" filled.

C13, it sounds as if you are working hard, yr T knows it and is fine with it. Please go easy on yourself.

[chaotic13]

peaches100 said:But if discussing it in more detail is necessary in order to rid yourself of pain or shame, it will benefit you to think about how you and t might begin doing this in small steps.

This is what I always circle back to... is it necessary to discuss X, am I being an idiot for not tell X, am I abnormal for even thinking about X, what is there to gain by telling X, ........on and on. Meanwhile, X is probably no BIG DEAL, probably is something that I've already told her numerous times just didn't realize it (LOL), probably means NOTHING in the larger scope of things, and is just something that I am using to make myself miserable for whatever reason. THIS I BELIEVE IS MY PATHOLOGY!! Its not about the past, the current, worry about the future, it is that my brain just constantly runs through stuff over and over again from different perspectives considering different outcomes. Then when I get tired of that I move on to, it necessary to discuss Y,......

Meanwhile, LIFE is passing me by. :-) RAISE YOU HAND IF YOU DO THIS TOO!

...HOWEVER ... SpottedOwl and SAWE, I AM in an accept and LOVE THY SELF state of mind this week...its all good..., today..., at 11:09 AM :-)

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

for the last two sessions I've felt like I've been telling my T stuff and she is just not "getting" where I am. As I was reflecting on that after the last session, it make me really ask myself:"Am I really saying, out loud what is running through my head? Am I using vague general statements and assuming that she knows what I mean? Am I asking her to make accurate inferences, when I haven't provided enough specific information?"

1) I'm the one who knows what thoughts or topics I tend to avoid. If I really want her help I need to have the guts to say, "I remember this, and it really bothers me."

2) I should just focus my energy on what things are bothering me "TODAY" in the here and now. Then if it seems like it is related to an incident in the past... I can go back and fill in the gaps, explore, and verbally discuss how it may be affecting me.

Chaotic, I like #1 and #2 up there ^. This is what I did to get better and it worked well.

About being understood, it takes a lot of explaining for someone to understand where you are coming from. Our experiences are so different that it is really up to you to make yourself understood. I guess you have some things that are holding you back from doing this?

Originally Posted by chaotic13

it is that my brain just constantly runs through stuff over and over again from different perspectives considering different outcomes.

Meanwhile, LIFE is passing me by.

Do you think that you might want to just handle all of this stuff by yourself in your head because it is hard to trust?

[SpottedOwl]

((((chaotic13))))

Wow...great work!

I'm so glad you're feeling positive about this. I'm not sure it is necessary to talk about X or Y in particular, but my real question is necessary to whom?

If it is on your mind, then maybe you can decide you want to share X, rather than feeling like it is something you are 'supposed to' do or something that is 'necessary' to do. (Supposed to and 'necessary', are both words that imply judgement, whereas 'deciding' can be more of an empowerment.)

IMHO, it is not 'necessary' to share every detail to heal, but it is important to access those feelings. X, Y and Z might all have left you feeling angry and scared. If you can get in touch with those feelings, then you can heal them without going into details.

If you're anything like me...the 'anger and fear' from X, Y, and Z are a part of your daily life NOW. I do believe it is possible to just focus on how you're feeling 'now' with amazing results. For example, you might just talk with T about how you think you're 'supposed to' talk, and take it from there.

(((((((((((((((Chaotic))))))))))))))))))

I have found that I don't think I will have to tell T every detail about every single thing that ever happened....BUT if there is something that I keep running through my mind over and over and over again....it's probably something I need to talk about. Some of the things seem like huge, significant, obvious topics for therapy - some of the things seem like they may not even be a "big deal" - but if they are there, I try to tell him.

The crazy thing is, two of the things I thought were in the "no big deal" catagory were my rape and my childhood SA (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!). I thought "this crap isn't even worth mentioning, I'm really here for X, Y, and Z" - but when I opened my mouth and talked, I realized what a huge deal they were, and what a big impact they have had on me and my thinking.

I've found that a lot of times, if I talk about whatever it is that keeps playing over and over again in my mind, it FINALLY stops that tape. It's like, I just had to get it OUT, tell someone it happened, be heard, not have it be my own "secret". Some things have required a lot of processing.....other things that were just eating me up turned out to be not such a big thing once I told and it was like "instant healing".

I guess my point is....try to talk about whatever is on your mind, right NOW. It doesn't have to be everything. But if you are thinking about something, and wondering about talking about it, it's probably happening for a reason.

LOL - Now, let's see if I can follow my own good advice when I see T today. Talk about "easier said than done!!"

[chaotic13]

I get ya...I think since my communication has been so..guard that drastic measure may be needed.(Drastic, from my perspective anyway :-) )

Option #532621-b :When I find myself asking the "is it necessary to..." question, I should immediately answer, YES and just try and do it.

This question is just a smoke screen and a way for me to avoid stuff during the session and then torture myself with later.

Another avoidance tactic is when she asks me something and in my head the mind starts to raise with...what is she asking,she can't be asking x, people don't talk about that,is that really where the problem might be, if I ask for clairfication she is going to probe there...or think I am really sick for intrepreting the question like that.....YOU BETTER JUST REDIRECT OR GIVE A SAFE ANSWER FOR NOW.

Are you ready to just biff me in the back of the head??? LOL

The sad part is...sometimes this is exactly what is running through my head sometimes during therapy.

I don't care what the topic is, I need to address this noise issue.

[searchingmysoul]

((((((((Chaotic))))))))

You know, I find that when I am talking about what I have experienced I am incredibly vague. Maybe it is because what I see in my mind cannot be acurately expressed in words, maybe it is my sense of shame, maybe it is that I think no-one will ever understand and I think I make a big deal out of everything....

When my T has checked out with me what she has heard and I have compared that to what my memory is there is a huge descrepancy. It is just hard to be explicit about the details, even admit that anything happened in the first place.

I guess I just wanted you to know you are not alone.

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by searchingmysoul

Maybe it is because what I see in my mind cannot be acurately expressed in words, maybe it is my sense of shame, maybe it is that I think no-one will ever understand and I think I make a big deal out of everything....

EXACTLY! When I drew the one picture, she asked me how I felt, and I simply pointed to the picture and said..."THAT, I cannot communicate it any clearer than that. Unfortunately, what I see in some of the images I create...can only be interpreted and understood...if I've been able to share with you where I've been. I think if I showed some of my artwork to my childhood friend, she would know immediately and would understand. But I don't think it would be safe/appropriate/ or fair to her to take her back there. T is the one with the training to handle it...I'm just having trouble...communicating.

[MissCharlotte]

what do you need to know to enable you to help me get rid of this baggage?

Chaotic, it is so hard when we feel the burden of our memories of abuse and don't know where to begin. But the truth is, you have already begun. When you showed her that picture you were telling her. I think she is trying to get you to put words to that picture now. I remember having many conversations with T about using words and how difficult that was for me. So take that baggage and put it through the x-ray machine they have at the airport. Then describe the items that are inside!

Just take it slow with T. One step at a time, always keeping context in the now.

[hangingon]

Chaotic
It is extremely hard to come up with the words to explain how your feeling or what you are thinking.
I was trying to tell my T something last night and I kept stopping, I couldn't find the words and I started getting choked up she said try and stay with it, I want you to try the best you can to stay with it, thought wise. I really tried but the words wouldn't come, I just said its really really hard to explain. It did come out a bit better later and thats when the tears came. I think thats why I can't stay with it at times, its the whole being vulnerable or being guarded, trying to monitor the words I will say ect.

I know it can be very frustrating your doing a good job, little by little, keep chipping away. You'll get there the great thing is there is no rush.

Hangingon

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by chaotic13

I guess I am just wondering how I want to address these communication gaps.

At first I sat and typed out in as clear terms as I could, exactly all the ugly things I remember happening in my childhood....

The other option I considered was to go into the next session, asks where the gaps are and fill them in.... I'm the one who knows what thoughts or topics I tend to avoid. If I really want her help I need to have the guts to say, "I remember this, and it really bothers me."

Next I considered going in and just starting from the very beginning and tell every single detail I can remember.

Finally, I considered just saying the heck with the past, its the past, its not important to really understand it all, I should just focus my energy on what things are bothering me "TODAY" in the here and now. Then if it seems like it is related to an incident in the past... I can go back and fill in the gaps, explore, and verbally discuss how it may be affecting me.

Well, you've thought about all sorts of options, which is great. There are four I've quoted above. What is the "right" approach depends on you. Different approaches will be better for different people. Since your T knows you pretty well by now, why don't you ask her advice on what she thinks is the best approach for you?

[chaotic13]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Since your T knows you pretty well by now, why don't you ask her advice on what she thinks is the best approach for you?

After I wrote those out earlier today, I thought, 'you know I should save or send these options to my T and ask what she thinks." Right before I logged-on on tonight I had decided that this might be a good starting point for my next session. Since, my main issue seems to be with discussing, I decided to not send but to save & discuss these options and any others my brain consider during my next appointment.

I will ACKNOWLEDGE for myself that last two sessions I have been able to refer to what i experienced as SA and at least in written form ask if some of the collateral damage (issues) I'm experienceing are "normal" . Another part of the email my T sent me did provide some assurances that the things I am experiences are common with abuse. In fact she recommended that I read a book:

Lemoncelli, J.J. (2009).A mind of its own: healing the mind and heart of the parasite of childhood abuse. Avventurea:Eynon, PA

Where the heck is Eynon, PA??? LOL

It just came in the mail today and I'm finding it very interesting. I like the parasite metaphor. I'll see where this leads me.

I love that your T recommended a book. Come back and give us a review when you are done...

And I LOVE that you are going to save and DISCUSS your disclosure options with T at your next appointment. Look at you go!

[sittingatwatersedge]

Chaotic13 wrote >>> I'm the one who knows what thoughts or topics I tend to avoid. If I really want her help I need to have the guts to say, "I remember this, and it really bothers me."

that's a problem with me, I don't have the guts to say that; I just avoid. And if it comes up somehow I put the fence back up, put the barbed wire on top, and paint a new sign, KEEP OUT. I am NOT looking forward to tomorrow's appointment.

[chaotic13]

SAWE, Oh yes, there are several things that frequently plague my mind...but I just can't muster up the lung power to direct our sessions there. I think at this point if I were asked a question about them, I could manage to take the plunge and share my experiences and what troubles me about them. I just don't know how to go there on my own. My next session is tomorrow afternoon. I shared a lot fragments (mainly images) that were flooding me 2 weeks ago. However, I haven't communicated with my T since she sent me the message that..."You've left a lot gaps". I guess I will see what happens tomorrow. The anxiety is already starting, but at this point I am trying to remain confident that...I am exactly where I need to be to work through these issues.

Originally Posted by chaotic13

but at this point I am trying to remain confident that...I am exactly where I need to be to work through these issues.

WOW, chaotic. Hang on to that thought. *I* am going to hang on to that thought for myself. That is so wise, and so TRUE.

[chaotic13]

I am exactly where I need to be ...I am exactly where I need to be ...I am exactly where I need to be ...I am exactly where I need to be ...I am exactly where I need to be ...I am exactly where I need to be ...

I am really trying EM...You keep trying too!

[sunrise]

I hope your session went well, chaotic.