Breaking Cycle

How?

Relaps of self...Finding oneself back into an emotional slump....blah!
It's so repetitious. I'm good for a long while, believing I am what I AM, (which is a good thing....lol), until some meaningless so-n-so blurts out something which attacks my spirit. It's not so much "who" is saying it, but "what" is said. And despite the fact that I realize it really holds no truth, it seems to immediately allow all the pain from the past to flood back into present. UGH!

Kristian and I have been discussing...me, and why I seem to seek acceptance from the wrong people. And he's right. Without realizing it, I seek approval from those who will only find disapproval in me....in what they feel is "wrong" in me, therefore, I end up feeling worse, (thus find justification in what my mom has been saying to me for so long?).

Do you think that maybe it's a subconsciuous means of self-sabotage on my part to justify what my parents, (especially, mom), have been telling me since God only knows when?
Also, he's right, how...since I already have his approval, I've stopped seeking his, and continue to look elsewhere. I do this without even realizing it. Why do I do that without realizing it?

Why should I have to have Kristian remind me that I already have his approval for who I AM? Why can't I be satisfied with the fact that I do have the approval of the only person who truly matters to me?
I'm fully aware that I HAVE his undisputed acceptance...yet....

So, how do I break that cycle when I'm not even aware I do it?

Peep's 'pinions welcomed....lol.
Thankies......

Shangrala

I was like this with my family for the longest time. Now I don't care what they think of me. You know Mary you might need to heal from your mom. If that makes any sense. When you grow up, and your family tells you that your basicly nothing but a piece of crap then it can live with us forever. Just because we don't live up to someone's standards, doesn't mean that we arent worthy. I have learned that my family is dysfunctional just like me, if not worse. I can't stand being around their drama.

Thanks, Michele....
But you know...I've disassociated myself from my family forever now. Like you, I have nothing to do with them, (and mine family is HUGE...lol). The only sibling I have anything to do with anymore is my younger sis, of 3 years, Donna. But even she is so stuck in the effects from our upbringing, mostly cuz of mom, that she can't see ANY good in living.
I don't seek approval from her, exactly. I just maintain a sissy bonding with her, cuz we've always been close.

Although, I've always been the centerpoint of my entire family, mostly with all siblings....was the one who they all went to to find out what's what with the other, instead of them going to the other themselves.
I was always the "friendly" one amongst us all. I was always the one keeping peace...."finding a reason TO keep the peace". That's me....Merciful Mary....holds true to this day.

But is this really all about the past and family? This is where I sorta reach that same barrier. I've physically removed the source of origin of (what I think may be) the problem, yet the psychological effects remain?

Yes. I do need to get over the effects of mom.
Kristian's right. Focus on what IS, and not what was. Now, to do just that. Not easy.

Thanks again, Michele....Yourra sweetie.

Shangrala

(I so love "Happy Face"....lol)

Hi gorgeous

Even though we have already talked about this together, I still
want to add a little since you are asking for a possible solution.

As you know I used to be terifide of scary movies to the point
that I was to scared to fall asleep and had nightmares.
Since you clearly ask for a solution to something that you do
not realize n therefor cannot find a way of directly dealing with
this, I still think this "mind over matter" approach may help you
out.

Whenever I was watching a movie and tension would build up
to where a scary scene would be coming (usually accompanied
by dramatic sounds and tunes and such) Id start feeling scared like ...
"uh oh, something bad is going to happen" normally I would close my
eyes n wait until the shocking part was over, then carefully open
my eyes again.

But then one time when I was attending this movie marathon with
a bunch of people, it would last all night and obviously lots of different
kind of movies, one of which of course was a scary movie. I was a young
adult and felt I couldn't be closing my eyes and covering my ears in
front of those people anymore.

So as the movie started I already start lightly grinning acting as if I was
actually already gunna enjoy this hella cool movie as others did. Though
inside being very worried about how I was going to deal with this movie.

But, as this movie progressed I noticed other people finding humor in
this movie due to poorly decorated studios or rediculously simple costumes.
And when a scary scene would be coming they would actually laugh
out loud. I found that laughing about these scenes made it very easy
for me to subside those feelings of fear and as the movie progressed,
I found myself laughing really loud about certain scenes (probably
because I was scared to death ... at first) but it did help me to actually
ignore those feelings more and did not have to cover my eyes or ears
anymore.

So I kept this up, as if I was a scary movie fan taking extreme enjoyment
out of scary movies. As I kept laughing about these scary movies
I realized that at some point I actually DID enjoy these movies anymore.
And without even realizing it, I got over my fear of scary movies and to
this day I still enjoy them, hella funny lol. I take it with a grain of salt
anymore.

Now I think since you have trouble recognizing and therefor cant directly
act to get out of this cycle, maybe taking a more practical indirect approach
may help you to get over people criticizing you.

Whenever you feel hurt by someones criticism, and think that
"omg, this is painful", remind yourself of who is actually criticizing you
and is this persons criticism something u should take seriously, let alone
hurt you. When you feel this hurting, just start laughing. Even when you feel
hurt or sad, replace those feelings of pain and sadness with humor.
Just start laughing about it, even if it doesn't make sense and feels
unnatural, it WILL take the severity of this persons criticism away
and instead of falling down into a deep pit of sadness, you WILL be more
resilient to this criticism n will find it much easier to let it go again.

At some point, when keeping up the replacement of pain and sadness
with humor, it will become more and more easy to you and will grow
your resilience to these peoples criticism. those people will think
that their criticism has no effect on you and wont bother anymore
next time. And you will (before you know it) actually not be hurt about
it anymore and take that with a grain of salt too.

Its a matter of recognizing your feelings, replacing them with positive ones,
repetition, repetition and repetition. You will notice that by already
laughing when really feeling sad will take the severity away, even
when laughing itself feels unnatural. But you wont be as hurt anymore
and by keeping this up, at some point will grow easier and easier
until someones criticism really doesn't bother you so much anymore.

Its a practical way of directly dealing with the things you do recognize
such as your feelings as a result, therefor indirectly dealing with the
cause of those feelings, which are peoples criticism and negative opinions.

lol, am I still making sense??
Mind you, its a possible way of dealing with this. That it helped for
me does not mean it will for you. Also, we are not talking about a scary
movie here, though I think the approach may have a similar effect.

But, whenever you feel bad or need approval. I have nothing but loads
of it for you sweetie, so feel free to come to me whenever you need, ok?

I love you so much, you're the best and
you make me so very happy.
Kristian

Omg, I really need to shorten my posts, lol.

Just like you, your posts are wonderful, baby. Thank you so much.

They say, "laughter is the best medicine", and for the most part that holds great truth. You know how I am with humor, though I do sometimes hide behind it when I'm avoiding "certain" confrontations.
Perhaps, applying my sense of humor, in this case a means of offense, instead of defense, can prove a great strength for me.

Practice makes perfect, and since I already have the act of applying humor when needed to an art, I merely need to redirect it in a positive manner.
(You be sure to redirect me when I stray....k, baby?)

Thank you, Kristian. You're the best. I love you.

Mary

I'll be right at your side baby,
don't worry. I wont let you stray.

My councilor taught me that in any situation there is the attacker, the victim and the.."savior" - the one who helps. Now suppose you are victim and they are the attacker. The attacker is usually in denial of his pain. He is attacking the person to be superior and the victim feels weak. worthless.

I viewed this triangle and it made me aware of the fact that THEIR **** is THEIR **** NOT MINE.
You know - every person is acting for where there are. Some are more mature some less mature. The **** they talk to you is coming from THEIR insecurities about themselves. From their pain in the past. They cannot deal with it so they throw it at you. They blame you shame you humiliate you.

You - objectively - have very little to do with their reaction. Every one sees the other as a twisted mirror of themselves...especially if they are not aware. because they were parents you took it all in...you needed to conform....If you start realizing it is not YOURS..i know it doesn`t work that way that you understand something and - end of story.

I find it very helpful - the inside job occurs when it happens. When someone says something that triggers what you feel...THEN exactly...when you start feeling it....read our posts here...or something your T gave you ( if you have ) or..anything like that. I know how it feels when you say "oh, here i go again...and i thought i was over it" But it was so drilled into us...all those awful beliefs about ourselves that have nothing to do with ourselves.
It was taught so well and repeated SO MANY TIMERS...and now it will take time and repetitive reading..or.."self brainwashing"..its realizing it EVERY TIME FOR NEW...and every time you fully realize it and feel a little bit better - its part of the way. Its another small step out of it.

Of course, every time, it also takes the "let it out" thing allowing yourself to feel it..and not deny it..etc..
But we have the between being the victim of our past or growing out of it.
Well i just threw it all there....what i remember from my experience.
I understand what you are talking about and it happens to me as well. I understand in my head but when someone says something i can get hurt. I don`t know if it can all be healed - maybe only to a certain extent? I guess we can change...and overcome most of the pain...the major past at least.

This probably sounds crazy, but this is how I feel about my past issues. I had to really learn and still learn that my family is who they are. I think with dysfucnction, people don't realize what kind of dysfunction is within them. Some people do know they are dysfuctional. Until they really have a desire for themselves to heal what they need to heal, the dysfunction will still carry on within them.
Here is a good example. My mom was abusive with my sister and I. She called us every name you can think of. I hated this about my mom. I knew that her angery energy came from my grandpa. My grandpa would beat her when she was growing up. My mom never went and got treated for her energy towards her dad. As a result of this my sister and I paid the consequences for what my grandpa did to my mom. I love my mom, but my mom is really the most miserable person I have ever known.( By the way, she passed when I was 15.) The child in me knows she hurt me, but the adult in me says she was hurting, and did the best that she could with what she had. If my mom was living now, I would probably have some kind of relationship with her, but I would not let her treat me the way she treated me as a child. This is the reason why I really won't talk to my family. Everyone gets off on making the other feel bad. You can forgive people, but choose not to be around them. IMO you need to heal the past to live in the present. You can't just push things that bother you in the back of your mind.

Mary, I'm going to try to keep this short as possible. I'm going through something similar to what you describe.

After years and years of working on my issues, I arrived at a place that I felt very happy and comfortable. I knew that there was one more piece of the puzzle that I hadn't figured out but I didn't have too many years left and wanted to spend the rest of them having fun. So I let it go.

The piece was, I had never really let people get very close to me. I had trust issues somewhat and I figured it was (please don't judge me here) simply because I'm fairly intelligent and most people don't "get me" and so that's ok. Anyway, I was ok with it. I had a great life, a wonderful son, a loving and supportive husband and things were pretty good.

One day, something happened that led me in a direction (I won't explain it because it would take too long) that made me look at something from my past. Damn! What I learned was I was a bipolar child. Bipolar children have very specific behaviors that are mostly out of control. Well, I had behavior that was out of control when I was young and my mother was a strict disciplinarian and would beat me. She never did it in front of my brothers and sister, but she would beat me to the floor, I cried, she cried, and I remember being horrified, not understanding how someone who loved me could be doing that to me. This continued for quite some time. It did eventually stop due to the intervention of someone I call "my angel" but I won't go into that now. But this interaction between my mother and I created in me the assumption that I was a "bad child" which I lived with my entire life. After that, what else could I do wrong? Nothing else mattered. If I could not please the one person who was supposed to love me beyond everyone else, who could I please? She also was not an affectionate woman. So, there was no hope for us kids.

Recently, in Intermittent Outpatient Therapy, we took a Self-Esteem test. Surprisingly, I came up with extremely high self-esteem. What else was evident, however, was that my trust level was ZERO! BINGO! I don't have low self-esteem. I have PTSD. This is because i've been actively working on these issues with my therapist for the past 6 weeks in therapy.

I want to tell you......every single day, without missing one day, for the past ten years, my husband has told me he loves me and that I am the most beautiful woman in the world. He told me that at first, he could tell I didn't believe him. But he says that now, he can tell that I believe him.

Sometimes, it takes convincing.

Ohmygosh....

After reading these replies, I can't help to feel as though my issues are quite petty in comparison, (surely no offense to anyone). It's just, there was no physical abuse of any kind, whatsoever.

Coming from a family of 10 siblings, dad successfully dedicated to working, and mom, the disciplinarian, remained home raising the army, I can perfectly understand how fatigued and limited mom was.

Like your mom, Vickie, she wasn't one to express any kind of love. In fact, in her youth she was forced to raise her own parents, who were extremely disfunctional, and her younger sister, whom she sacraficed her own well being for and devoted her efforts of getting her sister out of that domestic hell, which, by their early teens, she succeed at doing.

Neither mom or dad were verbally abusive. However, the only time mom attended to us individually was through yelling, but never swearing. The worst name she called any of us was "you miserable young one", as she's chasing us, though never successful at catching any of us. (It was much like being in a pen of 10 slippery lil piglets....Good luck catching any of them, if you don't exhaust yourself in the process).

Mom was generally a extremely unhappy person. Brilliant with a very high intellect. She was a walking dictionary. The only puzzles she enjoied doing were the "master crosswords", leaving all the other puzzles blank in the book, handing them down to me for my pleasure, (besides mom, I was the only other who enjoied puzzles).
A very noble and honest person. Avid reader. She loated lying. Despite of all her strengths, though, she seriously lacked expressing love. She was never taught how to. She never received, herself.
Throughtout all of our upbringing, we never witness mom & dad expressing love to eachother in any way. Absolutely no touching eachother, not even a quick peck on the cheek....nothing....especially never hearing any "I love you's".

I understand that mom had a rough childhood. And that she was never allowed to BE a child. With that reality, she grew up harboring great resentments and confusions. Unable to express praise of any kind to any of us.
After the birth of the 5th child, she realized that she wanted out of the marriage. Back then, however, divorce was uncommon, especially within the "catholic" comminity. Over the course of the years following, another 5 were born.

For some reason, though, it seemed that I became the target of mom's frustrations (?). (I don't know if it's fair of me to say it were frustrations). All I do know is that, from the age of 3, mom used to tell me that I was "different", (used to tell me that I heard voices in my head). LOL. In retrospect, HOW could she have known what I heard in MY head. Regardless, point being is that I became her target all throughout my youth, (and even up until her death).

During my alot of my years, mom's means of dealing with my "issues" was to sit me in the livingroom opposing all of my siblings, (they were my jury, so to speak, with mom as the judge, I suppose, as I sat on the "stand").
She would ask each of my siblings to offer to express one thing they felt was "wrong" with me, which would lead into a half hour discussion (for each opinion) as to how to "fix" me.
I would sit there, at first, listen to the best of my ability, until after the first 5 minutes...lol..tune it out completely. (If there was one thing mom & dad taught me well, was how to tune out, and then abandon an issue entirely). Until someone would complain about how I wasn't cooperating with the "trial"....eventually only lead to my becoming overloaded, resulting in my getting up and leaving.
THAT is what alot of my childhood was like.

I wasn't unrully. I wasn't a problem child. I admit, I was overly-curious. And because I couldn't receive answers from my parents (their means of guidance was ONLY the infamous, "don't"), for what curiosity stirred within me, I sought the answers elsewhere.
By the age of 15, mom kicked me out for the 3rd and final time. I remained gone. Moved in with who was the most convenient at that time, and, although I was already into the drug scene, (my role modles of 5 older brothers who lived for smoking pot), it didn't take me long to dive into the heavier drugs, (although never heroine or needles....ewwwww. I have a paranoia of needles, which is ONLY what saved me from those means of use).
My years following, I dove into a means of behavior that, I now feel was possibly my seeking the acceptance I never received from (mostly) mom....(again, as you've so well described, Vickie, as), the only person who is suppposed to love me the most.
I tried every and anything, seeking acceptance in individuals (incapable of providing), and through situations that, normally I would have never considered doing. Enduring situations that should have killed me, but, for some reason, survived many times over.
I have to admit, there was one thing mom said to me in my adulthood that, I think, was a compliment....in her own way....that she admired how I survived all those many situations that most would have succumed to long ago. Ummm....Thanks, mom?

I don't blame mom. I understand her. I understand that she had a childhood FAR worse than mine ever was, and that she did the best she could with what she knew....at that time.
I don't think I harbor any anger toward her. I think the child in me merely longs for that maternal bond that I never received?

There is ONE great benefit to how I was raised, however. I have learned from what I didn't receive is exactly what I provide to my own daughter. My loss is her gain. From birth, I made the point of showering her with as many "I love you's", and an abundance of physical bonding I can possibly offer....without smothering her, of course...lol.
What mom couldn't teach me was actually a great lesson learned.

Just would have been nice....to have received an "atta girl"...just once. Ah well.

LOL...I'm babbling. My apologies.

Ehh...........Thanks for tolerating me.

Shangrala

So many people have said to me "how can you be so forgiving of your mother?" First, she was a disciplinarian. She was doing the only thing she knew how to do with a child who was impossible to deal with. Also, I have a view of the bigger picture now. My mother is dead. My personal beliefs are that my mother has crossed over and now knows what "the truth" was. I also sincerely believe that she has been here with me and has given me permission to explore, learn and put this issue to rest. My task is NOT to forgive her. I already did that. My job is to learn to love myself because I was NOT a bad child; I was a BIPOLAR child. And all those years I thought that I was a bad child, so bad that my own mother hated me, were what were wasted. I DID NOTHING WRONG. It wasn't my fault. That's' what I have to forgive.

Thanks, Vickie.
I think, the same goes for me, maybe?
I think I do okay, though......I think.

Mary if your mom is still around, why not give her a call and ask her. It could be that you want to know if she loves you. My dad was pretty much out of my life. He passed a year, year in half after I started talking to him. I was so angry with him for not being in my life. At one point in my life I hated him. There was one time I had to live with him, and that was right after my mom passed. His wife at the time was awful. My mom and dad fought so bad, that even after my mother was dead, I had to live with my dad (his wife) calling my mom everything, but her name. I was 15 at the time. Well I ended up pregnant, and had a misscarriage. I lied to my dad, because I wanted out of the house so bad. That is the ex that I married, and had all my kids with. After that, he walked out on me again, and when me and the ex split up, and my dad was divorced from this wicked woman. I sent him a Christmas Card giving him my phone number. (ten years without ever seeing my dad), He called me up. I had somewhat of a relationship with him. There was no bonding. To make a long story short. I ran into some problems, and he let me live with him. After I moved in with him, there was one point that I blew up on him for never being there in my life. He told me that he was sorry. I mean I really riped into his @$$. I had always kept it bottled up, and I was pissed off over the fact that I had to hear his bull after mom was gone. After that I forgave him. I needed to know that he loved me, and he really did. Up until that time that I went off on him, I treated him like crap, even while I lived with him. This is why I'm telling you to ask your mom. If might just help you in the long run. It did me. One more thing that I forgot to tell you. My parents would flip if they were alive. We literally buried them right beside each other. That is our pay back to them for all the hell that they put us threw. lol

Lol....Michele, you're funny, (I'm sorry for all your pain and suffering...don't get me wrong). It's just your last comment struck me funny......soz.

Unfortunately, mom died a month before my daughter was born, 14 years ago.

It took everything for me to go to see her during her last couple days. Dad called me up, telling me that she isn't letting go until I show, (I was the only sibling who hadn't gone to see her at that time), and no one in my family even knew I was pregnant, (maintained a long exile from them all for years prior).
And, with my history with family, exposing my pregnant self wasn't exactly something I looked forward to. But I had to see her before she passed.

Got there in the hospital. We exchanged the meaningless, superficial bs. Once past that, silence for a while. Awkward. I then got up the nerve to tell mom that I never meant to cause her so much pain and confusion all those years. That I tried to be the person she wanted, but I just didn't know how to be. I told her how much I love her. How all I ever hoped to obtain was some kind of approval.
She responded with, "I know".

She continued with her expression of how proud she was of my younger sister for sticking with her marriage despite the foreseen misery. I only asked her why she was telling me, and not my sister...that mayyyyyyybe, Donna would love to hear that for herself. But ....no.

That was bout it. I left soon after that.

She died the day following.
At least....I tried to make peace with mom.

I'm a little late in responding to your thread Mary and you may already know what I'm going to say. I saw a show on PBS once and the person was talking about relationships and how our past affects our present lives. I think you're very clever the way you recognize, you keep seeking approval from the wrong people. The guest speaker was talking about how growing up in dysfunctional families causes the adult person to sometimes subconsciously choose people, who are like the person who they had problems with(your mom) The reason this happens is your subconscious, is craving a solution and trying to force you to solve the weaknesses that formed from bad experiences you had growing up. That's why many people choose partners who are similar to one of their parents. Everytime you encounter a problem with this personality type - it rips off the scab and exposes your vulnerabilities. So the question is how can you heal yourself, so that you no longer seek out those kind of people. When you're finally healed, you will no longer need or care to associate with people like that. You're a smart lady who knows yourself well and I think you're well on your way to understanding what you need to heal. Best of luck Mary.

You're a sweetheart, Lynn....(Joo makes me blushies all overzzzz).
Thank you so much.

I'm not even aware I do it?

Peep's 'pinions welcomed....lol.
Thankies......

Shangrala
[/quote]

We don't, not really... its like an inbuild reaction we have. There is an old saying better the devil ya know, then the devil ya don't.
<small smile>

I guess it all comes down to not believing our own worth.
But even knowning that doesn't really help at times.
It seems like its 2 steps forwards and three steps back.

Anyways don't give up, you're not alone.

Hugs... HazyDaisy

We don't, not really... its like an inbuild reaction we have. There is an old saying better the devil ya know, then the devil ya don't.
<small smile>

I guess it all comes down to not believing our own worth.
But even knowning that doesn't really help at times.
It seems like its 2 steps forwards and three steps back.

Anyways don't give up, you're not alone.

Hugs... HazyDaisy[/QUOTE]

Thanks HD~
Yes, it does seem a relentless struggle of 2 forward and 3 back, yet that isn't enough to deliver surrender. Although sometimes there are those moments which do stare me directly in the face and dare me to surrender. I refuse that, which depicts my character of the survivor.

It's comforting to know that there are other's out there who can relate to the journey. It makes the struggle seemingly not as lonely.
Thanks so much for offering your support. I appreciate it.

(Love your quote, btw)

Shangrala

Thanks HD~
You're welcome...
<smile>
Yes, it does seem a relentless struggle of 2 forward and 3 back, yet that isn't enough to deliver surrender.

That is what we must remember.

Although sometimes there are those moments which do stare me directly in the face and dare me to surrender. I refuse that, which depicts my character of the survivor.

It's comforting to know that there are other's out there who can relate to the journey. It makes the struggle seemingly not as lonely.
Thanks so much for offering your support. I appreciate it.

Knowning that there is folk who not only know, but have felt, can make a difference.

(Love your quote, btw)
Thank You.

Shangrala
[/quote]

Hugs to each and all who have felt this way including me.