[radio_flyer]

I don't know what to call it.... I don't want to sound like I am complaining... Seems I've been doing a lot of that lately...... Just it is soooooooo hard to see the light when so much is wrong...........

I don't know what to do anymore......... I try and I try talking to my son and it is always tomorrow, tomorrow, tomorrow......... Well I should say a good thing is my son is after me to write a resume for him which is good because it is about time he does some job searching. He is bored because , since I've been here, "grins" his friends aren't coming over everyday to play video games and drink............

I am working on a resume for him but it will only be a draft because I know nothing about computer language and he wants an entry programming position... SO, I suggested he pay a professional to write a final resume.......

But the thing is, I went upstairs to search for the mtg papers and I found a notice that my son's license is suspended for non payment of a fine..... When does it stop?????? I can say he mentioned to me that he thinks he is depressed and I said I'd search for a T. Me searching for a therapist is about as good as AJ looking for a job... I am at a loss... We can't afford another therapist/counselor like we had many years ago.. Basically because he wasn't a "good" T and did not help and we were too stupid at that time to know any better as to look for another T....The whole thing about going to therapy is sooooooooo scary... Who do we trust? How do we know for sure he can help?

SO, as usual, AJ is sleeping and it is 3pm...There are things he could be doing like getting the info his dad needs to try to refinance this "white elephant" of a house.......Would be nice if he opened his mail because when I was searching for the mtg papers there were months of electric bills, water bills and cable/tv bills........... Stacks of unopened mail included the one from the court saying AJ license has been suspended which was dated middle of December........

Throws hands up in the air.........Am tired of talking to a tree... And should the "tree" happen to hear what I am saying, the "tree" flips out and gets mad........ No win situation.......



I don't know why AJ's dad, AJ and I can't all sit at a table and talk about what the situation here is, what needs to be done, what needs to happen, and how we ALL can work "together" to make what is wrong right????????

AJ's dad says he will talk to AJ yet he doesn't/ I try talking to AJ and AJ only ignores me, or says he is busy and we can talk later, or he flips out at me. Crosses fingers as he hasn't flipped out at me since he broke the microwave in December.... I don't know why we can't ALL talk and work together........................ Sounds too easy maybe... But I honestly feel if communication lines were "OPEN" we could resolve much that has been going wrong here...................

Hi radio_flyer,

how old is AJ? I would say if he is an adult, it may be time for you to stop doing anything for him until he starts doing some things for himself...

[salukigirl]

I agree completely. Its good that he wants a resume...but HE should do that....not you. I know you don't want to let him fall flat on his face but sometimes thats what has to happen for people to wise up. Sounds like you're being taken advantage of and, personally, (I know this is easier said than done), I really would just stop doing anything for him. I wouldn't write him a resume. I wouldn't do his dishes, cook him food....nothing. He wants to a bum then he can do it elsewhere.

[radio_flyer]

ripley ---- AJ is an adult... He is 29....and I agree that AJ should be doing things for himself......I just don't know how to get him to do anything.

Salukigirl----I really don't know what to say anymore. I came here to help get the house back in order. Thinking if the house was looking better he'd get motivated.. "wrong".....................I don't know what is going on with him. He is smart has lots of potential and very social....... yet he takes the easy way out....

I don't do a lot for him... If I didn't wash the dishes, dirty dishes would be stacked to the ceiling.....If I didn't take the trash cans out for pickup, the driveway would be full of trash bags........ He cares I'd think... But he acts like he doesn't care or know better..........He acts as if he was raised in a cave.

You might say who cares if trash is filling the driveway and dirty dishes stacked ceiling high.. Obviously AJ doesn't seem to care..... I do care....... This house is a "mistake" of AJ's dad... Yet the opportunity for AJ is great to be a homeowner... That doesn't even seem to concern AJ.....Can't sell the house yet because the market is soo bad now and way too much money will be lost should we "bail" out of the house..... So the idea is to try the best we can to manage until the market picks up or AJ gets established........

I just keep talking and nothing happens.......................No more anger...... Just sadness.......I don't know if "depression" is AJ's problem....... Guess that is something that needs to be checked out......

Good advice everyone.........And I agree.......Stop the doing for....Sometimes falling flat on one's face wakes one up.......He definitely needs to "wake" up...............Don't know what to do until he "wakes up".....I don't know what it will take......:**(

[radio_flyer]

The truth is I have never known anyone as lazy as my son in my whole life. He does absolutely "NOTHING".... I am surprised he can even feed himself......Guess hunger drives him to eat....

Not crying .. I was that stay home mom....... House was always full of neighbor's kids.... sleep overs.......I was always available........ He was never neglected. He was always well taken care of and loved...........

Maybe because I never felt "loved" growing up I over did it...... When I failed, I failed alone... When I screwed up, I paid the consequences....Nobody around to help or encourage or teach.... pretty much you make your bed you lay in it.. or something like that...............Never had anyone I could count on. Has always been, me, myself and I.............So all that I lacked I guess I over did for my kids....Which apparently was a mistake........

But all was well with AJ that is until the divorce.............our life was like a see/saw and aj was in the middle which balanced the family... when divorced, AJ's dad got off the see/saw and AJ fell off.......guess he is still searching for that that balance........:**(

[AAAAA]

Why are you there may I ask? I completely understand supporting family when needed but for the love of PETE you're making this your problem. From this and previous posts I infer that you have no interest in this home what-so-ever. It's AJ's father and AJ. How did you get sucked into this vortex of caring for your MIDDLE AGED CHILD like an eight year old?

The hardest thing we can do as parents is step back and make our kids face the consequences of their actions. There is a huge difference between helping and doing it for them. And from the sound of it your efforts aren't met with appreciation but with contempt and hostility. Being a mother does not mean you're a door mat.

We all carry scars from our childhood. Why ever would he work on these issues if mom is there to smooth things over and pick up the pieces every time he stumbles?

What is preventing you from getting your own place and allowing AJ to make his own mistakes and dealing with the consequences? How old do you think he has to be before you give yourself permission to live your own life? At the risk of sounding harsh, in my opinion you're enabling his behavior, not helping him.

[salukigirl]

A little story to let you know how MY parents disciplined us. It was an eye for an eye in my house. And although it sounds harsh - I always consider others' feelings and am very aware of myself and how I treat others.

One time my sister took the car when she wasn't supposed to. My dad found out, went and picked it up and hid it. So my sister went back to the car and thought it was stolen. She finally called my dad bawling her eyes out that had taken the car and it had gotten stolen. But she never did it again!

Another time my brother and my sister had gotten drunk (as teens) and my dad knew but didn't say anything right then. Instead he woke them up at 7 am to have them re-blacktop our extremely long driveway in the middle of July.

I think if I were 29 and doing the things your son does this is what my parents would do - they would give me fair warning that if I didn't get my *** in gear they would change the locks on me while I was gone......and then they actually would.

Oh yeah and one time I drew on the walls in my bedroom so my dad made me clean it all up by myself on a SATURDAY. I'll give it to him, he was pretty inventive with punishments but as of today, all 3 of us have college degrees and are pretty responsible and very resourceful. We understood very young that we had to take care of ourselves because if we took advantage of someone we would have it comin to us.

So, personally, I'd change the locks.....let him find a place to stay and realize what its like to not have anything of your own. (then again I'm a tough love type of person)

[NuckingFutz]

Here is a possible wake-up call for AJ...his licence is suspended, therefore no insurance company will carry him. So if something happened while he was driving, car crash, injury or even being stopped what happens then. AJ is not suppose to be driving AT ALL. Maybe this will at least get them to listen at the kitchen table. Good luck to you! Make it count.

[Shangrala]

RF~
Your situation sounds very much similar to that of my sister's.
My sister was always there for her (now 30 year old) son, all throughout his upbringing. His father worked too much, leaving my sister to be both parents to her son.

She was a very attentive mother, but overcompensated for her son due to his dad's deliberate absense.
The older her son grew, the less he did and the more verbally abusive he became toward my sister.
It got to the point that my sister left as a last resort because NOTHING she would do to try and correct the family problems worked.

Like you, she did everything. She was the only one who cared.
Recently, she has become so overwhelmed with all of her son's bullcrap, (empty promises, his laziness, lack of concern, drinking, abusiveness, and manipulative behaviors), and the fact that her hubs simply wouldn't support her behind trying to change things for the better that she up and left on them both, (son and hubs) to fend for themselves.

She wants to go home, but not back to how they were.

Sometimes, it really can be too late to fix for our children...especially at that adult age. And without the spouses support, may as well call it quits.

Do what you can for you. Sounds to me that this is a hopeless case for you, and so long as you continue to try to fix (something that cannot be fixed...such as this situation you are in), you are only prolonging your own frustrations and misery.

I hope the best for you, and that you do what is in your own best interest....Lord knows it sure seems neither of then couldn't care any less about what you're going through.

Good luck.

Shangrala

[radio_flyer]

AAAAA----quote "Why are you there may I ask? I completely understand supporting family when needed but for the love of PETE you're making this your problem. From this and previous posts I infer that you have no interest in this home what-so-ever. It's AJ's father and AJ. How did you get sucked into this vortex of caring for your MIDDLE AGED CHILD like an eight year old?"

There are several reasons I came here this past June... The intent was to help AJ get the house in order by painting and cleaning. I also wanted to do some yard work and plant a veggie and flower garden....The house somehow became a "frat house" with way too many drinking parties and my goal was to put a stop to all the parties. The all night parties have stopped.. Yes, it is true I have no "financial" interest in this house. I guess I thought if I painted and did repairs and made improvements that AJ would appreciate the house more... I did not get "suckered" into coming here... I wanted to come... I wanted to help.....I just got in over my head.... WAY over my head indeed...

quote "We all carry scars from our childhood. Why ever would he work on these issues if mom is there to smooth things over and pick up the pieces every time he stumbles?"

Actually I am not here to "smooth things out"....I just came to try to help.....

quote "What is preventing you from getting your own place and allowing AJ to make his own mistakes and dealing with the consequences? How old do you think he has to be before you give yourself permission to live your own life? At the risk of sounding harsh, in my opinion you're enabling his behavior, not helping him".......

Good question.. I have a place to go to and I don't need permission from anyone to live my own life. Besides my "issues" aren't the problem here..And I must say I do have my own issues........Besides, I am in the "basement" apartment... I seldom go upstairs.......

The issue here is AJ...... I don't understand what is going on with him. I need to understand the "WHY" he is this way.........Does he care??? What does he want in life???? When will he "get it"... Is he really a "bum".....Is this what he wants for his future, to do "nothing"? Is it "depression"?...............Before I turn my back, I need to understand the "whys"....... I know we have to "let go"... and have in many ways......Was just hoping I could be helpful and that he'd somehow move forward....

I am not sure I am enabling him as I don't pay his bills. Sometimes I will cook dinner... But mostly he cooks or buys carry out...Actually I do very little for him... I don't see him daily... Maybe a few minutes a few times during the week... I don't know... His eyes don't "smile" anymore.. His shoulders are slumped.. Something is very wrong...

I wanted to add that I don't think your comments are too harsh.. You prob are right on target... just it hurts so bad seeing my son this way.......is hard for to accept the whole situation here........

[radio_flyer]

Salukigirl.. Sounds like your parents were very wise...Think wisdom is what we lacked big time. But I can say AJ's dad and I were never on the same page when correcting AJ. I was the one "ooo AJ is not aloud to do that" and his dad always let AJ pretty much do anything.....I would say no... His dad always said yes.... Not blaming his dad.. Just AJ didn't have clear guidelines when he was young..

But then I do believe there is a time in one's life to "grow up"... Doesn't take a lot of sense to realize one has to be productive in life and want to do something to make one's life better......

Tough love is good...AJ's dad is very close to telling AJ that he has to find another place to live.....Think most of what AJ's dad does for him is out of guilt.. Out of guilt that he spent little or no time with AJ when he was growing up... ANd his dad pretty much abandoned him after the divorce........

Yes, I know all of this "yeterdays" is no excuse for his behavior today...Guess somebody better give him a big shove or kick in the butt before it is too late......looks like it is going to have to be me........

Sometimes you have to hit rock bottem before you can go up and it sounds like your son hasn't done that yet, you are preventing it from happening.

You want to help your son ? Then back out from his life but be there for the time he ASKS for help. He isnt ready yet hun ....

He does not need a kick in the butt from you or anyone he needs to be left alone to sort himself out which he wont do while people are around picking up the pieces all the time, you are putting plasters on him when he needs to be left alone to mend himself.

Whats the worse that can happen if he is left alone ? He will lose the house (which is bricks so nothing lost there) he will be in debt, debts can be paid back. Leave him alone to grow up it sounds like he has never had the chance to be honest.

I mean all this in the nicest way I truly do but its about time you had some straight talking, the problem sounds like its you not him.

[Shangrala]

Originally Posted by radio_flyer

Salukigirl.. Sounds like your parents were very wise...Think wisdom is what we lacked big time. But I can say AJ's dad and I were never on the same page when correcting AJ. I was the one "ooo AJ is not aloud to do that" and his dad always let AJ pretty much do anything.....I would say no... His dad always said yes.... Not blaming his dad.. Just AJ didn't have clear guidelines when he was young..

But then I do believe there is a time in one's life to "grow up"... Doesn't take a lot of sense to realize one has to be productive in life and want to do something to make one's life better......

Tough love is good...AJ's dad is very close to telling AJ that he has to find another place to live.....Think most of what AJ's dad does for him is out of guilt.. Out of guilt that he spent little or no time with AJ when he was growing up... ANd his dad pretty much abandoned him after the divorce........

Yes, I know all of this "yeterdays" is no excuse for his behavior today...Guess somebody better give him a big shove or kick in the butt before it is too late......looks like it is going to have to be me........

The thing is....his "yesterdays" IS the reason for his behavior today.
Granted, yes, he can change....ONCE he realizes it is time TO change. Once he understands that he doesn't have mommy to bail him out anymore. Once he acknowledges the fact that it is his life that HE has to account for.

As it is now, he doesn't HAVE to account for anything, especially his own behavior, because he knows that you are there to do it for him....DESPITE of what you may say or feel. It is your actions every time that tell him how it IS for him. And he relies on you to bail him out...every single time.

I can sorta relate to how difficult changing just might actually be for your son, as I was there myself in my early years. I really wasn't taught "responsibility". I knew what it was, but I hadn't a clue (then) HOW to apply it to my own life.
I was a VERY late bloomer regarding taking responsibility for my own actions. I'm really not sure why I was so irresponsible for such a long time in my younger years. There were many things which I'm sure contributed to it, but the fact was that I wasn't accepting my OWN responsibility. I had spent more energy seeking (what I thought was then) the "easy" way in life..(doing as little as I had to TO get by....getting by on the shirt tails of others, etc).
Although, I tried many times, aware that I'm supposed to be responsible, I simply struggled relentlessly with the "trial & error" of applying the necessary behavior to my own life. But the fact was that I simply wasn't taught how to utilize this behavior. VERY frustrating, exhausting AND frightening....not to mention how my inabilities only seemed to reinforce my sense of failure. It became a vicious cycle which seem to have lasted forever....(well into my early 30's).
Even though I was aware that it was my actions that I had to account for, I never really was able to apply a MUCH needed change to my behavior. I went through the motions of "trying" to do the right thing...that would last for a while, until I seemed to slip back into what was familiar to me...(what I thought was more) failing.
At some point it finally hit me and things began to fall into "play'.

My point of including this is not to excuse your son's behavior, but maybe to enlighten you from the viewpoint of where your son just may be emotionally & psychologically. It's really hard to say, but from what you have described of him, it is possible that he may be struggling as I had. Of course, there are differences of him and self (I left home in my teens...not by choice), but our struggles sound quite similar.
Regardless, the fact IS that your son HAS to deal with his struggles for his own self...otherwise he will NEVER obtain his own sense of purpose or worth.

It may sound harsh....well, to him it IS harsh and to you it feels harsh..but, as hard as it is... it is your duty as his parent to allow him the opportunity to discover his placement in his OWN life.
Allow him the opportunity to fall while you are still here to help him back to his feet. The inevitable is only being postponed at present.
(Imagine how difficult it will be for him far later in his years to go through these changes..possibly while married and with kids....imagine their struggles because of his?)...I made that mistake, and other's suffered for my inabilities.

As hard as it is, letting him go is forcing him to deal with with his own consequences. He NEEDS that TO learn his own purpose. And we all know, without a sense of purpose we only wander in an existence...a far cry from LIVING.
Forcing him is the best action you can take to show him your love for him.

I wish you both the best.

Shangrala

[AAAAA]

I agree the hardest thing in the world is seeing your child struggle emotionally, financially, or physically. But just as we had to make our own mistakes and deal with the consequences so do our children.

I used to "warn" my adult children ... if you do X, Y will happen. They would do what they wanted anyway and just resent my interference all the more. Once I started keeping my opinion to myself I noticed that they actually ask my advice now and take it more often than not.

[radio_flyer]

NuckingFutz......Actually this is the third or forth time his license has been suspended...He mentioned that a friend of his lost their license and I told him I was so happy that "those days" of losing his license is over........And then I happen to see the notice in the stack of bills that AJ's license is suspended and my heart dropped... I did not say anything other than, "hey AJ, your license is suspended" He said "what for" duh... Guess you did not pay a fine.......I guess "reality" surfaced and I doubt there will be any round table discussions.... He just doesn't want to be bothered. Seems he wasn't too bothered about his license... What can I say... other than maybe "nothing"......

[jerrymichele]

My daughter just turned 18. She has been out of control. Everyone that I know has tried to help her. Everyone including me had to realize the only way for her to learn is to let her fall. She was really upset with me at Christmas time. She wanted money, and I'm not going to give her money if I think that she's doing wrong. She has her cousin for a roommate and they almost got evicted from their apartment. They both work. I did get her Christmas presents, but she just wasn't happy with it. She also started whinning to me how her and her cousin almost got evicted. I told my daughter that she has chose this for herself. If she would have stayed in school, and tried to do something with herself instead of running with god knows what, then I would help her. I told her this. She tries to make everyone to feel sorry for her, but I don't. I love her, but when you try everything that you can think of, and it just doesn't work. Than you just let them fall. That is what your son needs. He will either sink or swim. When he realizes he needs to depend on himself he will swim.

[salukigirl]

My step-sister is kinda like your son. She is almost 30, just had a kid with a guy that she had supposedly broken up with, still lives with my step-mom. My step-mom gives her cigarette money and she doesn't even help out with electricity or bills or anything. She dropped out of high school and has dropped out of community college several times. She always says its just SO hard. And I'm like I have worked 2 jobs while paying for EVERYTHING myself, including school, and still maintain a 3.5 in a science degree. And not paying any bills, working part time and going to community college is TOO HARD?!

But no matter what my step-mom keeps paying for all her crap so she never ever learns. I know I'm being repetitive but I get really annoyed with kids who take advantage of their parents and have this undeserved sense of entitlement. I almost wanna come to your house and change the locks myself. And write a nice little sign on the door saying "GET YOUR OWN DAMN HOUSE!"

[radio_flyer]

Lots of wisdom and "tough love" in all these replies. Things we should have done years ago.... AJ knows what it is like to hit "rock bottom"... I think he is doing what he is doing is because "he can".. Which in turn means it is our fault, the parents........We let him.. Now is the time to "stop" letting him.......

I would like to add I did not come here to cuddle AJ or pick up the pieces...I don't pamper him or buy him things or give him money....When the smoke cleared I've realized that my being here has been a good thing....I got to plant "gardens" and "paint".... Because of my being here the "drinking parties" have stopped... We don't have l0 cars parked in front of the house which means "his friends don't hang out here anymore. A few friends still drop by now and again, but nothing like when I first arrived here.... Good thing is AJ is actively seeking employment.... He now only goes to clubs once or twice, if that, a month....He rarely drinks anymore... Although he still drinks, more than I think he should, but a whole lot less than had been drinking....Not every night like he did when I came here in June.....

There have been good things....and there has been not so good things...There is still hope.......Although AJ still does "stupid" things, I believe in him.. He just needs to believe in himself........Am not sure how he will get to work since he license is suspended.... Not sure if all he needs to do is pay the fines to have his license reinstated......Guess take it all a step at a time....The most important thing now is the "job" search... and finding full time work........

Hope when I read this again that I don't sound all wishy washy....Last thing I want to be is wishy washy.......All the sound advice opened my eyes and made me see how easy we were on AJ......What a mistake we made! Now is the time to move forward and expect AJ to carry his own weight...

[AAAAA]

(((radio))) I'd sure feel a lot better if you took less blame. This "kid" is nearly 30, not 13 and it doesn't sound like you've kept him locked in the attic so he's unaware of other ways of doing things. WE each make choices in our life, they may be based upon nature or nurture, but they're ours and we need to own them.

You may or may not have coddled him while he was growing up, either way it does not excuse violent and ungrateful behavior. Good luck

[radio_flyer]

Hi (((((((((AAAAA)))))))))... Actually I gave AJ tons of hugs and cuddles when he was younger... What I meant is I don't coddle and cater to him now as an adult.......

And I totally agree, violent and ungrateful and rude behavior is not acceptable.....And I find absolutely no excuse for aggressive and violent behavior......He has calmed down a bit... His next step, that is if he can't control his anger, is anger management classes.................Should he ever lay his hands on me I would not hesitate to call the police..........AND HE KNOWS THIS..........And he knows if he breaks anything again in this house his father will toss him out... He breaks anything else, one call to his dad, and he is out.... His dad gets furious when things are broken out of anger or rage.. He said he works tooo hard to have anyone break anything that he has paid for...AJ has been very well informed on this two issues............

Not to blame anyone, but AJ has learned some of his anger behavior from the father. His father has changed a lot over the years.... Who he is today is not who he was when I was married to him........ So there is hope for everyone............

And you are absolutely right that AJ makes his own choices now......... He knows better.. I want to believe he knows better.....He knows right from wrong.... He often said he did not want to do his "future wife" what his dad did to me... Which is clear that he knows how "not" to treat a woman or any person.....

I should have been a "stronger mom" years ago... Not sure where this "strength" is coming from now... DO hope it stays with me...

[salukigirl]

Introduce him to an awesome girl....then have him admit he is almost 30 and lives with his parents and has a suspended license. lol. my niece NEVER wanted to learn how to ride a bike. She was almost 10 and still hadn't learned! Until......a kid in class made fun of her for it. Boy, she picked it up quick after that!

[radio_flyer]

Ummm AJ does not live with his parents..... This house is AJ's house.. I just came to AJ's house this past June to do some work here.. I am staying in the basement apartment...... So we aren't actually living on the same floor.......

As for women........ AJ has no problem finding great looking women... Actually the last girlfriend I got along "great with" and she was very beautiful... None of the young women that comes here have a problem with me being here.. Most of the time they come down stairs just to visit with me.... One of his x girlfriends still brings him "carry out" food a few times a month.....