[bonaire]

Ok, hi. My first post here but have been wanting to find an online forum for psych-issues for a while.

I'll into myself and then ask for some support here. I'm married, 41, two great kids (10,7). Without going into too many details, my wife and I are working on our marriage by going to counseling weekly, I got to a personal counselor and then also a group session - both weekly. I think I'm evolving and growing and things on my part are good and getting better. The reason I'm doing this is to build communication and intimacy back into our marriage.

Now, the topic at hand was this. My wife was scheduled for a beneficial operation July 25th which was postponned due to her doctor getting seriously ill. The operation will affect her deeply - it's a full hysterectomy and ovary removal. She was distraught after the first cancellation and the possible 2nd date came and went (early August). She called her doctor's office last Monday (8 days ago) and they hadn't gotten back to her. I decided that she really needed to hear from them so I called the doc's office today to ask them to let us know what was going on and to contact her to give her an update. The doctor had just returned to the office today and the assistant said that she was planning on talking with him and letting my wife know what the status of things are.

Now, I was hoping that my wife would say "thanks for calling - I appreciate your concern". But I got the irritated wife saying "you didn't talk to me first - you do that all the time. I don't call customers of your company when you say they're not doing something right." She did admit the thought was nice but that I didn't talk to her first.

I called the doc's office for myself as well. I want this surgery to happen so she can get going with recovery, get over the daily pain she has with her uterus and get on with life. I also want to get rid of the mood swings and irritability and her attacking me for doing "things you always do".

I'll give her empathy and let this pass. But I really want to hear her say, someday, "thank you for thinking of me." Rather today, I tend to hear "you don't do things the way I want you to and I don't like it."

Thanks for listening - any advice?

welcome, bonaire. PC is a good place to be.

i think that your wife may be feeling pretty powerless right now. she had an operation scheduled and it got cancelled. that can be terribly frustrating for someone who is in pain and worried about her health. she would probably like to feel more in control of her life right now. your making the phone call, without asking her, probably frustrated her very much. she's in a very emotional place. i've had a hysterectomy and the pain and discomfort, before the surgery, is pretty intense. it can make for a very uncomfortable emotional state. i know it did for me.

it's her movie right now and it's her body. and that surgery is major. especially, if it's abdominal surgery. recovery takes awhile, either way. please be patient and consider that this is more about her, than you. best, pat

[kimmydawn]

i will be honest with you from a woman's point of view, granted. in your post about you AND your wife, i hear alot of "I" statments.

i do hear concern for your wife, but the concern seems to be about how it relates to you and your life, time frames and feelings.

you may be ready for her to have this over and to feel better. however, she's getting ready to undergo a possibly life changing surgery and needs to do this in HER time...not yours and not the dr's.

if my husband had done what you did, i would have been livid. my husband never takes my personal issues and makes them his business like that. on the other hand, i sometimes wish that my husband would show more interest in my business.

i guess what i'm saying is...hear her right now...don't just listen to her words, but HEAR her and then act on those requests. she must be feeling all kinds of things that she may not even have words to express. also, give her the space she needs to feel them.

i can see where you want to help so much. how admirable! that's awesome! i think wife needs you to be there for her, though, in a different way. ask her just how you can be a comfort to her right now? you sound like you're trying so hard. that's great!

gl! let us know!

kd

i want to add something that i think will help you see this more clearly. my ex is a surgeon. i had a mastectomy was i was 31. i went to a surgeon, for a revision, that he had been in Vietnam with. i am sitting on the exam table, unclothed from the waist up. all at once, i realize that they were talking about my upcoming surgery, as if i was not there. talk about a blow. i burst into tears and insisted that the surgery was about me. not them. that happened more than once and i finally chose a surgeon, without telling my husband. he meant well, but he didn't realize how "unempowering" his actions were.

i agree with KD about the "I" statements. support her, but don't take her power. she needs it, now, more than ever.

pat

[bonaire]

Thanks to all. I especially like hearing from the womens' point of view. One that stands out:

>> she must be feeling all kinds of things that she may not even have words to express.

This is incredibly accurate. Now, what does a rationalizing guy like me who needs to hear what those words are (at times) do to feel out those issues? In fact, we have all heard the term "he would be far more effective if he could read my mind". I tend to get caught up in many situations where I am not doing what someone thinks I should do, but they don't ask. Of course, as the husband, I wish I was able to read into the hours of time she spends sitting around dwelling on things, smoking on the porch, doing mindless things that are not productive. She says she's over the anxiety of the initial days after the operation was postponned - yet tells her relatives and friends on the phone that "I don't know what's going on..."

Some guys have said to their wives "is it going to kill you? No? well don't worry about it..." However, the minute tactical details of our emotional underpinnings (ie biological experience making up our emotional health and our personality ... ie. our ability to "deal" with things) is very complex. When someone says "you're not doing what I asked you to do" and there is a lot of emotional details within those statements.

What do you ladies do to get your point across to people who really are empathetic to you but are also, what's the perfect words... ah - men. Men who may not be thinking in the same mode as you. We love you - we really do. But we are different. Is this a topic of another thread? A series of books? Of life itself?

Thanks again - any more input is welcome. Mind reading techniques highly welcome.

- John

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bonaire said:
Of course, as the husband, I wish I was able to read into the hours of time she spends sitting around dwelling on things, smoking on the porch, doing mindless things that are not productive. She says she's over the anxiety of the initial days after the operation was postponned - yet tells her relatives and friends on the phone that "I don't know what's going on..."

- John

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as i pointed out, earlier, this is a very emotional time for your wife. what does it hurt, if she sits on the porch, smoking? and as for as doing mindless and unproductive things, are you not judging her? it sounds to me, as if you want her to do what you think she should be doing.

are you jealous that she talks to relatives and friends on the phone? most people have more than one person that they seek comfort from. it sounds as if she is seeking comfort and encouragement. women talk to women. that is just the way it is.

there are no cookie cutter instructions for how one should talk to a partner and get their attention. it's different from every one. have you discussed this with your counselor and told the T exactly what you're telling us? i hope you have. i think a T could help you sort this out.

i realize that i have been forthright and may not have answered you, as you had hoped. i'm trying to help you and dancing around it is not what i do.........xoxoxo pat

[bonaire]

Pat - thanks much. Right you are in many areas. The thing is I do wish she would do things slightly different ( as we all do wish our loved ones were "better" at times ). Judgements? I know she judges me and I've dealt with the topic with both couples and individual T-sessions. So, I hear what you're saying. Our culture teaches us to judge others - getting rid of the judgements is a life-long process. Stinkin' culture!

I actually don't want answers to some of these rhetrorical questions. What I personally lack is some of these intricate senses that many people have in terms of "what to do". I was raised as an only child by an older (by 45-years) mother has left me learning every day of my life. Excuse? Sure. Source of my ability to not sense her? Definitely. Something that is possible to overcome? Maybe but it's not easy.

Work continues. Where's my orange "man working" road-sign?

[h0kie]

Welcome bonaire!

I am the spouse of an only child man. It is amazing the stuff he hasn't learned. I could write a book on the "girl stuff" he didn't/doesn't know. But I digress.

Personally, I hate (loathe, abhor, etc) using the telephone. I am lucky enough that most of the calls that need made my husband will make. So you calling your wife's doctor doesn't really bother me. It is what I would want done. However, I would want it done at my request. While taking initiative is good, sometimes you have to wait.

I've found, a lot of men (not all, but a lot) want to "fix" the problem. My husband is like that. If I am hurt/sad/upset he wants to find out why or who made me this way and deal with them accordingly. As a woman, I don't want the problem "fixed". I want him to listen. If I ask for his advice, then I am fine with him sharing his "solutions".

While this surgery will help your wife, she is going to have a lot of emotions regarding it. The thought of that word (the h-word) scares me to my core. Even if this operation was life saving, I would have to give it some serious thought. So while she is probably mentally prepared for it...little setbacks will probably bring on all sorts of new and different emotions. After the surgery, she could become worse. It just depends if depression sets in. As far as telling family she doesn't know what going on, right now, that is probably an accurate assessment of how she feels. Plans that were set are now changed. There has to be some feelings of upheavel.

Honestly, you are going to have to just let her handle things and be there with her. Support her however you can. If she asks for help, then you should jump in feet first. Be prepared for mood swings, she has to be under a huge amount of stress. She may end up saying things she doesn't mean. I know I do when I am under a lot of stress.

You're trying...I think that's important. Let her tell you what she needs/wants from you. Let her know that you will do whatever she needs you to do. But don't push her and don't judge her. Is she willing to do things to get her mind off all the upheaval? Movies? Board games? Anything to get her mind off of what is going on around her. Productivity is probably not high on her list right now.

[kimmydawn]

bonaire, i just like you. i really do. when you ask for opinion, you accept it without judgment or futher trying to "justify" your perspective with defensiveness. we're going to get along famously. i already feel you're an added benefit to PC, and hope you stick around.

ok...to add comment:

you brought about a VERY good point...your wife leaving you guessing about what she needs because she's not clear. if it were me, t (also male and points out the differences psychologically and biologically between the sexes) would tell me...kim, you need to figure out what it is that you think you need and be clear and direct about it. for so many years, i would get hurt and ticked by/at spouse and family for not hearing me...thing is i felt that i shouldn't have to ask and that hurt me further. the fact is, not many can read minds. a very valid point that you brought up.

your wife may not know yet what really is upsetting her right now. how about you gently telling her that you can only imagine her worry, thoughts and upset about this and ask if she can put it into words for you. until she knows exactly what she's feeling, she can't direct you on helping her.

let us know?

kd

[bebop]

welcome to the group. I had to have a complete hysterectomy when I was 24. My husband told my dr no that it would ruin our sex life. I let him have that control just to please him. It finally got so bad that I took my life into my own hands and scheduled the surgery. Personally I would have loved it had my husband been as supportive and trying to sooth me as you seem to be with your wife. Having her surgery rescheduled 2 times I certainly understand you calling her dr to find out what was going on. Be very patient with her once it is done. It all depends on her attitude going in as to what her life will be like afterwards. Let her know you are there beside her and will stay there. There will be many changes but I am here to tell you I felt so much better after the recovery. Good luck to you and your wife.

when i had my hysterectomy, i had no idea how sick i was. i felt sogood afterwards that i considered it a miracle for my health.

[bonaire]

You guys have been great so far.
I've heard good/bad stories about "the big H" - so I'll look at it with the viewpoint of glass-half-full and just know she'll get through it flying high.

My wife has had a history of issues. OCD, manic, panic attacks, migranes (years ago, before kids). No doubt all this is mildly brain-chemical. Now, one thing that I did was help her get on a vitamin supplement program. She also got off various meds that she took on-going for pain.

I look at it like this - at one time for a few days she used a walker and had a lot of numbness. Now, she's doing great without the meds, living a full life and going into this operation with high hopes (and a little anxiety). Couldn't be much better, really. Just want to put the icing on the cake - that's my take. When I say "I want to get it done" - I just mean "let's get on with life and get through this up-coming hurdle". She's thinking the same thing, really, and wants to end the pain and get on with life. Just that her anxiety popped up recently and we're getting through what comes along with that.

[eskielover]

Welcome Bonaire,

You have been given some really good advice by those who have gone through what your wife is about to go through. One thing I might add it that you need to just & I mean just talk to her (without doing anything) until she & you fully understand how she feels about something before you step in & do anything. I have a husband (who I am now divorcing finally after 30 years) that will go in with me to a Dr appointment (because we were seeing the same pdoc) & when the pdoc would ask me a question, my husband would immediately answer the question I was asked....he also does that when I am doing my own business with someone & he is there. I know that I want to take care of my own issues & if I want help or need a question answered, I will ask.....& don't do anything unless I ask. I am 52 and an only child who was raised by older parents too. I didn't like the way their life was & definitely knew that I wanted to be completely self sufficient from the beginning......maybe you need to find out how your wife feels about some of these personal issues. I am not trying to be hard on you. You seem to be truely conserned about your wife & want to take care of her.....but sometimes we really want to take care of ourselves in our own time...in our own way.....this is now the 21 century & womens thinking is not always what it used to be. It is important to really understand what she is thinking & needs before you step in & take any action.....IMO, it is just respecting her but then my opinion has always been more radical than most other women.....so it is really important for you to thoroughly understand your own wife.

I know under it all, that my husband is really just trying hard to be nice & he thinks what he is doing is nice. He just doesn't understand how it effects me & doesn't want to know.....he continually does the same thing even after I point out what is going on so I know he doesn't want to do anything different than the way he is doing it.....thus, it seems to me that he really doesn't care how I feel about the situation.

You are working so hard at your relationship & it is wonderful that you are working so hard to make it work....but it is a continualy growing process that never ends....it seems to me that once either side stops growing, so does the marriage.

I'm sure you will be successful because it seems like you really want to be...& you have been give good advice by everyone before me. I also know that I do look at things much differently than many other women also...but it may be because I grew up with only boys in my neighborhood & worked with only men in my aerospace engineering career for 15 years.

Be sensitive to your wifes real needs & you may be able to find it all less confusing.
Debbie