[neri]

I'm here for the need to vent, I apologize for the half a novel this is going to be. I am beginning to realize that I'm someone who needs years of therapy if I want a chance of finding real love. If such a thing exists.

Again I have a huge crush (obsession, even) on a married mad. Something must be profoundly wrong with me. I don't even remember the last time I've had feelings for a guy that's actually available! My best quess is, that married guys are just safe. Firstly, someone has wanted to marry them and successfully done so, which means the guy must be the kind one wants to spend their life with, and that he wants that with someone too. Secondly, since they're already taken, there's really no "risk" of me having to commit to anything, even if they did cheat their wives. It's like I don't want to be alone, but I don't want to be with anyone either. Or don't know how.. Then again, I have a whole lot incommon with this man, he's real funny and nice, and it's like amazingly easy to talk with him etc. So it's not only my disorders that are attracted to him.

Because of this crush, I have this constant inner battle inside my head, the other half of my brain is like this silly schoolgirl, who totally reads too much in to everything he says or does, and tries desperately to find hints and meaning behind it all. The other half is more like the real me, saying to the girly half, that it's being retarded, and none of mean ANYTHING. Anyway, I don't know if he has feelings for me too, or am I just being delusional.

Here's the thing, we have hung out "just the two of us" for quite a bit, me and him. I use the quatation marks, because we're both dog owners and we've only hung out with dog related activities. Just without other people, like his wife. He has asked me for walks we've gone swimming together, and to train agility aswell. Well you can imagine what the schoolgirl brain thinks of him "asking me out" like that, the realist in me says though, that even if I might not think that's normal, it may be so for other people, and he's probably just the type that has plenty of female friends with whom he hangs out without he's wife. He has chatted with me on facebook quite a lot as well, sometimes I start the conversation with some convenient excuse, but he's done so too (though I can't claim his conversation starters to be excuses) and then we might have kept chatting like for two hours. Anyway, it's almost physically painful to keep going over everything he has said and done all the time! Here's an example of the inner dialogue I'm having with the dreamer and the realist in me. Which one is right?? (do many people have disagreeing brain hemispheres??)

Dreamer: He said he's generally not a big fan of being sensible, the same night we had updated our fb-status to hint that the reason we don't make initiative because of our sensibility. It could totally mean he thinks things don't always have to make sense and we should just go with the flow!
Realist: Oh shut up, he couldn't possibly have understood that from what we wrote in our status! Besides, MEN do not drop hints (nor do they get them), if he wanted us, he'd do or say something.
Dreamer: But he is married! Haven't you heard that some married guys don't fool around unless it's the woman who makes the first move, then they can reason to themselves, that it wasn't their fault.
Realist: But he isn't like that, don't you remember he also said that life is simple, if you don't make it complicated. That OBVIOUSLY means, that he wouldn't cheat, because keeping secrets and sneaking around is the very definition of complicated
Dreamer: It doesn't necessarily mean that, it could also mean he thinks the simplicity is to just say and do what you feel like, and not complicate things by over analyzing and following some arbitrary rules and moralities.
Realist: Most likely nothing he has ever said has meant anything more, than what it is. You read way too much in to things
Dreamer: But what if I'm right and you're wrong? Do you want to risk losing his interest by being so ******* thick? He's bound to get tired with it sooner or later. People have different levels of patience, and you could be on the very edge of his!
Realist: I'm not wrong, but even if I were, what the hell am I supposed to do? Do YOU think I should risk humiliating myself by making a move and having him look at me like I'm some sort of desperate looser and ask me something like "what the hell do you think is going on between us? You do know I'm married, right?" ....???
Dreamer: He wouldn't say that, I bet even worst case scenario he would atleast be flattered.
Realist: Even so, if I can't be sure of him having some feelings for me, I don't want him knowing for sure I do either. You can't take it back you know, once it's out there, he would always know. I'd be embarrassed.
Dreamer: Well we don't have to let him know for sure, we could just flirt a little, to test how he reacts. Not so strongly, that we couldn't pretend it was just a joke if he didn't take the bait, but not too subtle either. I bet he'd like to get a younger woman's interest. And even if it didn't go anywhere immediately, we could start reeling him in little by little. Who knows, maybe his marriage isn't going so well anyway. He's in the perfect divorce age and everything!
Realist: But WHY would he be interested in ME. It just doesn't make sense to me, I'm not very attractive, not particularly smart or witty, nor do I have an easygoing, fun personality..
Dreamer: Beats the hell out of me, but obviously he's atleast somewhat attracted, I've caught him looking. And he wouldn't bother hanging out with us at all, if he thought we were totally boring.
Realist: All (straight) men look at boobs if you put them on display, it doesn't mean anything. And he probably hangs out with me only because he likes me as a friend.

...and then I start feeling like I'm getting a brain aneurysm.

The few friends I told about this are totally making this worse, by rooting for the girly half of the brain. They say (and I find this odd since they're all engaged or whatever) that him being married is not an obstacle but merely a speed bump. They would interpret his sayings and doings the same way that the girly half of me does, and they too think that I should try and flirt with him and see how that goes.

Sigh.. If only people could just say what's on their mind. Wouldn't life just be so much simpler!

the guy is married. it would be totally wrong to get involved with him. i do think therapy would be helpful for you to overcome wanting to be with guys who are taken. are you in therapy?

Do you ever think about this man's wife?

http://tierneylab.blogs.nytimes.com/...tached-men/?hp

[neri]

I haven't done anything wrong. Or done anything, period. But if the guy was to cheat on his wife, he would probably do it anyway, I'm not so special that anyone would wreck their marriage for me. But thank you for the link, it certainly is thought provoking! I remember being disappointed when I found out of his attachment though, so at least my feelings aren't based only on the fact that he's taken.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Hello Neri,

I needed to take a chill pill half way through reading this! I'm not judging you in any way. I do think that it doesn't matter if you haven't done anything yet. In your dreamer mind you are trying to talk yourself into doing so. And worse you are thinking of hinting someone else into doing so. To him "Keeping it simple" may mean no emotions included...sex and friendship only you are not allowed to care....???

And because you claim "I haven't done anything wrong" doesn't mean you will not do anything wrong...

OK lets try this...you are this mans wife...he is out spending his time with another woman that you have just found out about. He hasn't slept with her yet but how do you know that he won't? He spends upto 2 hours talking to her online...How does this make you feel?

[neri]

If I had a husband I'd hate it if he spent time with other women, but then again, I'm insanely jealous and possessive. What if he just is the kinda guy that has a lot of female friends? Maybe there just isn't anything odd about to him, or his wife? He works from home, and maybe he just didn't feel like doing all that stuff (walking the dogs etc) alone, while his wife is at work? Maybe I'm just conveniently there to ask for company, since I work at nights so I'm free during the daytime too. Then none of all this mean anything, and I don't think it would make a difference in any way if I did try and flirt with him. Besides, I don't really see how is it my job to consider his wife's feelings. My friend, who's engaged, said she wouldn't like her fiance chatting and spending time with another woman, but that she would do the same in my position.

I just don't understand people..

[littlematchstick]

Originally Posted by neri

Besides, I don't really see how is it my job to consider his wife's feelings.

I do believe it is your job, because you will be doing something that could potentially impact her life in a HUGE way. You say that you would be upset if you were married and your husband did it to you..so why does that give you the right to put another woman in the same position when you know you wouldn't like it? Just because you may not know or ever meet his wife, doesn't give you the right to hurt her vicariously through her husband and his actions. That's kind of like saying Hitler isn't responsible for killing the jews because he talked someone else into doing it for him (not an exactly analogy, just making a point here--hope that is not offensive to anyone). Anything you do that involves another person, you should think about the greater impact of others around you, otherwise you are being incredibly selfish. And just because some of your friends say they would do the same thing (by flirting with the guy or whatever), doesn't make it the right thing to do.

[marjan]

stay away from married couples and don't build your nest on top of somebody's else nest....that's just unacceptable....

Try to get help....go to therapy, talk to a priest, a doctor, a friend whoever can help you to find a right way to get out of this....

what you are signing for is a recipe for disaster, so why do you do that then?

honesty, half through your post I felt no more need to read more......that is sad what you have in your mind.....just be aware of it and don't do it....

[neri]

Hold on there.. are you saying that I shouldn't hang out with him at all, even if he didn't have any feelings for me and didn't even find me attractive or whatever? I mean that's just nuts, what am I supposed to say to him? "No I can't walk the dogs with you anymore because eventhough it's completely innocent and platonic for you, I'm totally in love with you and I'm so self-absorbed that I think that might magically turn into you cheating your wife with me, and the hypothesis itself is so immoral that I would be an awful person if I didn't put an end to it now" ?

I'm sorry but I can't see how am I hurting anyone by only being his friend. Except myself ofcourse. I'm sure I'm not the first friend in the world to have unreturned (secret!) feelings for another friend. Why do you all assume that I WILL do something?

[la doctora]

Originally Posted by neri

The few friends I told about this are totally making this worse, by rooting for the girly half of the brain. They say (and I find this odd since they're all engaged or whatever) that him being married is not an obstacle but merely a speed bump. They would interpret his sayings and doings the same way that the girly half of me does, and they too think that I should try and flirt with him and see how that goes.

This is why I assume you will do something. You've made it clear (to me anyway) that you want him to flirt back with you. You want him to reciprocate your feelings for him. If he were to flirt back do you really think you would have the strength or will power to resist the temptation of flirting back and allowing more and more to happen between the two of you? The reason you shouldn't hang with him anymore is that you need to have a clean break from him to sort out your relationship issues. You recognize that this is a problem and that you feel you need therapy to have a meaningful relationship, yet you try to justify your actions by saying that it is a harmless "secret". I agree that it would be harmless if you know that it is only in your head, and that you would never allow it to go further. But I feel that you would act on your impulses and that it is not harmless but harmful for all parties involved. People will be hurt if you follow through with your feelings. (((((neri))))) I truly hope you find the strength to deal with this problem.

[neri]

Ofcourse I would want him to flirt back, and I would definitely let it go further if there was a chance for that. BUT I really really don't think he would flirt back, which is why I haven't flirted with him, and why I don't think I will either. The dreamer part of me might be seeing signs and hints, but the realist in me is dominant and this part hasn't seen any window of opportunity or encouragement even for the slightest "easy-to-laugh-off-as-a-joke" flirt. And just today when I saw him I felt like that's intentional.

And yeah, I hate that he shows me any kind of attention if he doesn't mean anything by it. It's much less painful to crave something from a distance than to have it in reach and not being able to do anything about it.

neri, i don't know if you realize, but you would most likely get hurt as well if anything happened between the two of you and i don't think any of us want that at all.

[lynn P.]

My life changed drastically 4 yrs ago because of what my husband and a woman decided to do. I'll never be the same. I blame them both equally. If I was single I would never want to hurt a fellow woman in this way. So please do consider the woman's feelings, because you both hold her heart in your hands and their childrens hearts as well.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Originally Posted by neri

If I had a husband I'd hate it if he spent time with other women, but then again, I'm insanely jealous and possessive.

So it would be wrong if someone did this to you, but not if you do it to someone else?

Besides, I don't really see how is it my job to consider his wife's feelings.

I just don't understand people..

So if someone came along and interfered in your marriage KNOWING you were married, it wouldn't bother you at all even though you are insanely jealous? Who's job is it? The husband? the wife? If you knowingly entice a married man you are deliberately ignoring his wife. That is being someone of questionable character.

And you don't understand people saying "hey have a conscience and do the right thing" ? It's a matter of the argument; you want this and you're wanting us to say "hey go for it" and because we are not you say you don't understand people.

The addage in my head is "Do as you would be done by". I think you've already decided and are looking for the same urging on and support that your friends have given you. Well when they have to face this same situation in their marriage I hope they remember urging you on to incite someone to break their marriage vows.

Really neri I hope you are able to sort this out and handle it maturely and don't get hurt yourself either

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Originally Posted by lynn P.

My life changed drastically 4 yrs ago because of what my husband and a woman decided to do. I'll never be the same. I blame them both equally. If I was single I would never want to hurt a fellow woman in this way. So please do consider the woman's feelings, because you both hold her heart in your hands and their childrens hearts as well.

(((( (((( (((( ((((Lynn)))) )))) )))) ))))

This happened to me so many times and his secretary knew he was married, the pain she and he caused me was just like yours...as neri said

I just don't understand some people...is it a game to see if they can get everything they want? then discard it because they achieved their goal?

I can't believe that this poor woman doesn't know that her husband is in the danger zone and she won't know and can't do a thing about it until she has been totally humiliated and the father of her children taken away from them; a whole family broken apart

[neri]

Well aren't you all making a whole bunch of assumptions there. First of all, how do you know his wife doesn't know? As far as I know, he hasn't tried to hide any of this from anyone. Second, though not that it has anything to do with anything, they don't have children. I don't think it matters here, the "Won't someone think of the children!" angle just bothers me since it isn't accurate.

In my opinion that "don't do to others what you don't want done to you" stuff doesn't apply to me in this instance, because if I had a husband and he spent time with other women, I'd blame the husband! Ofcourse it's always the husband's job to consider his wife's feelings. And maybe she isn't as possessive as I am, they seem to do a lot of stuff apart from one another, so who's to say she isn't fine with him having female friends.

Rhiannonsmoon: I don't understand any people, but by that particular comment I meant mainly my friends. Which could be easier to realize, if you hadn't unfairly edited the quote to your liking. The first friend to urge me to go for it was betrayed by her former fiance, and she's still pissed about that. So I don't understand her logic there, unless she, like me, doesn't think it's the "other woman's" fault if the husband can't keep it in his pants. I asked her if she thought I was a bad person if I went to see him, eventhough he's married, and she said she would go too if she was in the same situation. I was surprised she said that, but it shows not everyone has the same moral standard.

And I DON'T want you to tell me "hey go for it", but I don't appreciate being attacked either. Questionable character? Well duh, I'm a total mess

Since I've got you all ticked off anyway, I might aswell tell you I'm not even sure I want him all to myself. Heck, I really truly believe I'd like it better if he wasn't married so things could be at least slightly simpler (not that anything in this annoying life is ever simple) and it'd be okay to have some guilt-free fun, but I don't think I would want to commit to anything, have to compromise about anything, or to be in any way restricted by anyone. Though if I ever were to sort through those issues, he is the kind of man I can see myself not getting bored with. For now, though it does seriously bother me that I'm incapable of even understanding how a relationship "works" and how and why people don't get sick of eachother after few months, and how because of this I'm probably doomed to be alone forever, life just feels too short and the hours of the day too few to start figuring that out Especially when I just rather not talk about stuff that makes me uncomfortable and anxious, but do something that gives me joy instead. Maybe in the next life..

[neri]

OMG. It's starting to get very clear that he is in fact interested.

I had already decided that I'm not gonna ask him for walks anymore, comment anything of his on FB or start conversations with him. I had decided, that I'm not going to even think about him, but just forget all of this and pick up my life where I left it. And it was working perfectly! For like a day or two. Then he started chatting with me every day. More and more, and about more personal stuff. To the point that it's making me really uncomfortable.. it's like he is getting really close and I'm feeling cornered. I haven't said anything, because I don't wanna hurt his feelings and I hate saying no to people.. But I also hate it that I've got myself in this place again, where I try to be what I think someone else wants me to be! I mean, how could he like the real me, if I don't even know who that is? So I'm just terrified of saying or doing something, that he might find unlikeable or rejecting. And eventhough I KNOW things would be so much easier if he could just stop being interested and I could go back to my simple, uneventful single girl life, I still don't want that to happen.

[bridgie]

As you can see by everyones posts. Cheating(both parties involves) isn't ok for anyone to do. Women also need to start taking a stand against this behavior. Its not ok. I am glad the realist in you is stronger than the dreamer. Let's hope it continues to be stronger than temptation as that is the true test of someones character. Staying away from this man and any contact will make your life simpler(as you want it to be) if you want attention from unavailable men why not just go find a single man that is emotionally distant. There are plenty of them. Bars are great places to meet men like that. I do agree that figuring out how to stop being attracted to taken men is a wise idea. Work through whatever the cause is. Not asking him on walks is a great start to separating yourself. If you decide you are going to continue to maintain this relationship (even with all the reasons to just leave him alone) perhaps meeting his wife or even mentioning meeting his wife may help you. Then she is not this unknown entity that has no feelings. You may find out how in distress she is about her husband that may or may not have many female friends. She has more reason to hold on because she is married to him and doesn't want to divorce(for many reasons). Married people(men and women) should not have adulterous relationships. That's simple. Very very simple. No one here is sayoing you will for sure but it seem that your mind is already doing it. Trying to find any way to figure out how to make it ok. Don't listen to the dreamer. We shouldn't dream about hurting others. Once its ok in your head it will be easy to act upon it. That's what everyone is saying. We can see how close it is. Walking a fine line. I don't know if you Have to have contact(such as being a coworker) or if its all voluntary. I would unfriend him on fb erase and block his phone number. And yes tell him you feel its heading in the wrong direction and you don't want to be a part of it. Stay strong to not acting on the little(or big) voice in your head tempting you to do wrong. Get that help if you need to. We all need help with those little voices. Its perfectly fine. I think that's why you posted. I think you did want people to tell you not to do it. I think you know deep down that your friends are wrong. I don't understand people that have that double standard either. I don't think one person that posted does. This is such a touchy topic that people feel strongly about. Its hard to not get upset when you get an indication that someone has the potential to hurt others. Stay better than that.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by neri

II'm not so special that anyone would wreck their marriage for me.

Don't put yourself down. My husband was married when I met him. One can't know the "status" of another's marriage, what they may be doing with their lives, how they may think of you, until they, themselves say.

If you have to ask yourself whether or not to pursue, it sounds like he isn't working very hard at his pursuit, may be playing it "safe" is having you and his wife and any other "girl friends" he desires.

I think you either need to break off contact with him (for your own sake) or let him know, in no uncertain terms, in person, that you have more than dog walking thoughts of him. It's hard. I still remember when my husband turned to me after everyone had left work, he was my boss, and said, "I have something to say to you" and I thought I was going to be fired

I, myself, would stop dog walking with or talking to him and start new routines. If someone spends time with me, "alone" and doesn't declare themselves "mine" in some way then they don't have the sort of personality and self I'm looking for in friend or lover. My husband was in a marriage and pursued me; I didn't have to worry that he'd get "cold feet" or turn wishy washy on me; as a matter of fact, while still living at home he told his wife he would be dating me and would be moving out as soon as he could and he did all that he said. I was not attached in any way and it was actually me who had the feet dragging problem but he and I realized we had fallen in "fond" rather than love, we took the relationship slowly (he moved into his own apartment, not in with me or me with him; shopped for it himself, established his own identity as a single man and he did not ask me to marry him until after he was completely divorced, over five years later).

Relationships take a certain amount of "evenness" in feeling, respect for self and others, worldview? I don't see anything in what you have told us where this guy is reciprocating on the same wavelength to your feelings and desires. I think going any further on your part might get yourself deeper mired and hurt and being alone in those circumstances aren't fun?

[neri]

In my last post I didn't tell all what he's been saying and doing lately, since I'm kinda freaking out about all of it myself.. Ugh. I mean nothing bad, just very sweet and friendly and whatever. I'm not used to people being nice to me like that so I don't know what to do with myself.. but anyway:

I don't think there's any point of me telling all this because I know your opinion and I know what I should do, no matter what the circumstances are, but if you don't mind, I'd like to vent anyway? Because most of this I don't want to talk to my friends about.. too personal for me or something.. and it's just really hard sometimes dealing with all of it alone. Well, first of all, I don't remember how the conversation started, but he was telling me that he doesn't really like that many people and only spends the bear minimum time with people he doesn't like but has to deal with. I said that I never do anything unless I want to, or unless it at least leads to something that I want. I meant that in general, like, if I don't like dealing with some people and there's no "profit" in it for me, I just don't do it. Well, he asked if I had some endeavors about him then, and I was like errrr.. He said he thinks he'd rather be in the wanting department, than in the having to tolerate to get something. I told him I enjoy his company, which I thought was neutral enough. He said it's nice to hear that, though he didn't see himself all that entertaining since he doesn't know how to smalltalk or whatever. I said I find smalltalk boring and pointless, and I rather just stay quiet, but that most people find the silence awkward. He said I can be quiet with him, if I feel like it. Later in a different conversation (after I had gone for a hike by myself with my dogs, and ..LOL.. updated my fb status that I had stopped to just sit down for a while because I had felt like just being there) he added to the previous, that when walking with him, we can also just stop and be, like we can just be quiet. Yikes, right?

Then another time, he sent me some youtubelinks of some agility courses, and my computer was acting up, so I said I can't try watching any of them because it might lead to my laptop taking a short flight against the wall. He said it's better if I have a working computer or phone, incase there's some acute need for him to reach me. I said there's nothing wrong with my phone anymore (my cats spilled a glass of water on it some time ago). He said he never calls people though, except maybe at 3 AM in the morning if he's drunk, but that I probably wouldn't mind since I'm at work at that time anyway, and joked that he might in the future call me like "neeeeeerrrriiiiiiiiii, the taxi line is soooo long, please come take me home" and naturally it would be accompanied by confessions of love and promises to pay "in nature". I said I'll be expecting his call then. *At this point I'd like to remind everyone that I was trying to be something I think he wants me to be, and say things I think he'd like to hear from me, actually I was getting uncomfortable by the way the conversation was going, I didn't want to reject him by asking him to stop, nor did I want to make it "worse"* I also said I didn't mind driving him home, if he didn't mind waiting for three hours (I finish around 6 am) though standing in line for a taxi would probably take less time. He said maybe he could company me at work instead. I asked if he would sit in the crate with the dogs, or up on the car roof, cuz there's no room in my car anywhere else. He said he would ofcourse sit on my lap! Well it went on like that for a while, then he said he very rarely drinks though.

He's been very "chivalrous" aswell, one time when we're supposed to go agilitytraining together, but there was a slight miscommunication about the time. Apparently he had sent me a confirmation that 1pm is fine with him, but I never got it, so I didn't go then, and kept wondering why he doesn't answer anything. Like 45 minutes later I texted him that did he even get the first message, and he answered that he's there already, and was I coming or what. Like I said, I didn't get his confirmation message so I got totally pissed that he "blew me off" like that and thought he's a total jerk He texted that I should get moving, but I thought I wasn't gonna go at all since there was no point anymore. I moped around at home a bit, but then I realized I might aswell go, since I had everything ready etc. I didn't expect him to be there anymore, but he was, though it was closer to 3pm by then, and he didn't leave either, until we did. So not a jerk... He also gave me his notes on the Foundation Jumping DVD's without me asking, and when I had doubts that they would let me compete in our agility association's unofficial member championships unless I've enrolled myself to work in the beginners class beforehand (the competition is free, but everyone who competes also has to work, I compete in advanced class so I should work in the beginners'), he said I wouldn't have to worry because he would make sure I get to compete no matter what. I'm not sure he'd really do it though, but I can believe he would.. There's other stuff like that aswell that I just can't remember right now, he's always really kind and helpful towards me.

Now he has asked me out for a lunch once, but I said no because I panicked and didn't think I could handle being with him just the two of us, face to face, eating for crying out loud (I'm very self-conscious about my weight and I think I look like a pig when I eat) and worse yet: without my dogs! They're kind of a mental crutch for me, I probably define myself through them, because I feel like I'm a total nobody when I don't have them with me. We went for a walk the same day though, it took about an hour, and he said it was too short. He has gps in his phone, and he said there's a lot more potential hiking grounds around there so we could go exploring sometime and make the route longer. I wondered if I had time to go there myself the next day to check it out, and he said I shouldn't because I don't have a compass or gps, and I might get lost and I can't be so mean to him that I'd go and disappear.

Phew.. so that's some of it, there's more but I'm getting a carpal tunnel syndrome. It's probably obvious he really likes me, though I don't know WHY.. And I know he knows I like him too, but I don't know what his intentions are or what's his level of pursuit.. Meh.. this is torture! I know in the long run it would be better for me to just stop all communication, and I know I could handle the "detox" period, but I can't do that to him.. not now But worry not, I have an even more effective male repelling weapon at hand, I can just unleash my neuroses little by little and he is sure to run for the hills...

[neri]

Oh nuts. Instead of letting it go, I kinda slipped and told him that I want him We had gone on a really really long walk and though there were plenty of opportunities for something to happen, I kept quiet about my feelings. But later at home I felt so incredibly overwhelmed with bottling all of this up that it just spilled. I mean I felt like banging my head against the wall or maybe driving my car off a cliff if I had to keep it a secret any longer. BTW I don't know how can some people just be open like that! I mean I felt like a target on a shooting range. He didn't shoot me though. So I'm relieved. Eventhough I still don't know if he feels the same or thinks I'm just a silly girl with a crush, I think I'm happy I told him (the final verdict is still pending though, it's a battle between "happy to have tried" and "moving to mongolia"). At least I won't have to wonder what if. And I know I did exactly what you all predicted, but being with him and talking with him makes me happy. I smile all the time, and I feel warm and happy when I think of him. That's unbelievebly rare for me. Don't I deserve that? Why shouldn't I get to be happy?

I've read what I wrote earlier and *not that it's any news for me* I can see that I am totally unstable and inconsistent. And kind of an addict. At the moment I'm in some withdrawl type of thing, because yesterday he left to Switzerland and won't be back before monday.

Therapy appt on friday, earliest I could get..

[PrincessStarr]

The only thing that is keeping this situation from being a full-blown extramarrital affair, is that he is not reciprocating. Do yourself a favor and put an end to this. An occasional walk with the dog is one thing. A daily,ongoing, situation that entails hours of yours/his time is a horse of another color. Yes, it is your responsibility to think of her...him...and above all, yourself. Every thing that you do.. good, bad, right, wrong or purple impacts your self-esteem. Clearly, your self-esteem is very low at present, or you would not even consider such a debockle. Any movement or thoughts toward infedel, will only serve to hack away at what little esteem that you may have. Love yourself better, you deserve it.

[Rhiannonsmoon]

Neri,

I wonder if he has a girl there too

[neri]

I had my therapy session and whataya know. She said I don't know the situation between him and his wife, and it is NOT my problem and NOT my job to think of his wife's feelings. She said at the time we're also clearly not in the point where I should worry about finding it out, so I don't have to ask what this is or where is it going. She said he probably wouldn't know anyway, and that's the most likely reason why he hasn't just said what he wants from me, but that he is obviously smitten and doesn't wanna let me go.

Well, I totally felt better I can chill now and be patient, no need to rush things...

[wounded1]

Ok, let me start by saying I WAS THE WIFE. My husband sought "friendship" outside our marriage via the internet and it turned into a months long "cyber affair". When I found out, it just about destroyed our marriage (the wonderful folks here actually helped me work through it), and even four years later, the trust issue remains. Bottom line is if this guy is seeking friendship outside the marriage, and his wife doean't know about it, it's cheating. Why? Because it's a violation of trust in their marriage. So honey, kid yourself all you want, if his wife doesn't know you, has never met you and isn't privy to your conversations with him, you two are already CHEATING. Oh, and why should you have to consider her feelings? BECAUSE SHE'S A PERSON! Ever hear the golden rule "treat people how you wish to be treated?" If you're so callous that you can't see this from her perspective, you need to look in the mirror and ask yourself what kind of person you are.