wifes history

To me it sounds like trust is a bigger issue than what she did. It sounds like she violated your trust, and lied to cover-up something maybe she was ashamed of. She is the only one who can put your mind at ease and trust is an important part of a healthy marriage. Disclosure is usually the best way to rebuild trust. I'm sure she had reasons for what she did, but only she knows what they are. Maybe this was a one time thing and she did it for the experiencence. I think by lying about it to you, it shows that isn't someone she wants to be.

Being lied to sucks, but if she told you the truth back then, and you left her you would have not had the years you spent together. It wawasn't fair she took that choice from you, but is has happened. People change along with thier values. I don't think you should expect her to be the same as she was back then. I think the best thing to do is talk to her about it and try to work things out. Holding onto this only builds resentment towards her. My suggestion is to try and talk things out with her.

Some things don't add up;

In your earlier responses pertaining to why this is so traumatic and also the context of the 3way convo, you stated you and wife had conversations about fantasy 3ways, but she never let on that she had already taken it further than fantasy. Btw, that specific post has been deleted.

Then you say to adam, that you would never have chosen to be with someone who took part in a 3way...

Those are 2 contradicting statements, even if the 1 was only a fantasy statement.

The other thing that bugs me is this; You called your wife promiscuous... How does a 3way constitute promiscuity? It could've been her, a longterm bf and a trusted friend. And even if the other 2 people involved were not as my example above, were they random strangers off the street? Think about whether or not a label fits before you smack one on someone's forehead.

Promiscuous - Indiscriminate in choice of sexual partners

Nobody here is against you, from what I see we are just trying to point out the leaves from the trees for you, as you seem very blinded by your anger, disgust and pain. Next time please be more specific in your thread and state that you only want responses from people who agree with you, it will cause you alot less grief than reading through many different perspectives and opinions when you are not looking for them in the first place...

Take care.

That and also there was a statement that implied that a 3way is not intimate and why would intimacy be limited to a 2way is there any good reason for it??

That just adds up to a whole slew of arbitrary statements.

I wonder if the OP never worked on what happened to him when he was younger, never dealt with the issues that left him scarred? Instead of working through them, they gave him a slightly skewered outlook of sex. (the anger, the wording like promiscuous and the set-in-stone allowance of sexual past for his chosen bride). The problem is that it probably isnt other's outlook and now the anger, disgust and original issue has all come to the surface again when the line had been crossed. Sadly I think he's taking it all out on the wrong person - his wife. I guess it will always be like that until he deals with it.

I think this is amazingly deep insight. So you are trying to say that the issues were bottled up a very long time go, before he met the wife, and now have come to the surface prompted by the little incident?

yes, its the only reason I can think why he has had such reaction. I could be (and probably am) way off the mark tho. I just don't understand why he has such anger over someone else's sexual past. I do understand the anger of lying tho, but I think there is more to this than lying alone. I shouldn't speculate tho, so ignore this please!

It is not just sexual past, but any past - one would think that after so many years of marriage a husband would base his opinion of his wife on... RIGHT, SO MANY YEARS OF MARRIAGE rather than her very distant past of any sort and kind.

If you apply a little imagination, maybe we should disclose the events of our past lives, before the current incarnation...

I appreciate the responses. It happened a month before we started dating. I doubt she forgot. She knew I would not approve of the behavior and for that reason she lied to me. I never asked again in the fourteen years of marriage because I believed her. She had forgotten my issues with that type of behavior and it slipped out as something that was matter of fact to her because we were texting with her best girlfriend and for the two of them this is an open topic that they have apparently discussed it before.

I will be fine with it eventually as I truly do love her. For me this is brand new, and the images of her pop in my head from time to time. Try watching TV and not hear about threesomes or a movie, or songs on the radio. Not to mention this happened at a location that I frequent and every time I go there I am reminded of this happening there. I will get past it.
As far as the past is the past and her past should not matter to me. I just don't agree. Never will. To me it is no different than someone lying about being a virgin. They may have only had sex once and wanted to pretend they did not but to the virgin they are marrying that one time is enough to not want to marry that person and all involved deserve the truthful information prior to walking down the aisle so they know they are marrying the person they want to be with.

Understand, we're not discounting how you feel. Of course you must be shocked...that's not something we expect you to hear and be like "Oh, cool" and move about your day. Our (speaking collectively, which may or may not be entirely comprehensive) point is that the bolded line, of which you're cognizant of, should ultimately trump the second part. Let us assume momentarily she did lie...bold face, straight out lied to you regarding this. Why is it you think she would do so? Have you considered the notion that she is, perhaps, ashamed this ever happened, and was scared of losing you? Or (respectfully, of course...not trying to spark a fight by any means) were you too concerned about the "implications" to you to consider the matter on her end? There are always two sides to every story. Additionally, there are few lives in existence that don't have their share of regrets. This, it seems, is hers. You are, of course, understandably angry that she would lie...that is a natural reaction, and I don't think you can be faulted for that. It's the bitterness towards her due to the act, not the lie, that is concerning to myself (and, again speaking collectively and under assumption, others).

Again, I don't mean this to be argumentative in any way...I am only trying to encapsulate the points made over the past few pages. Speaking for myself, and I think others, I/we simply do not understand why this revelation should cause an about face of your feelings towards her.

I have spoken to her in depth. She enjoyed the experience and does not regret it. She lied to continue dating me. I made it very clear early on that I was not interested in people that think of sex as something to just do for fun outside of a marriage. I made it clear that it is for 2 people in my mind and that I have no interest in being with anyone that feels differently. I asked her if she had had a threesome and her answer was no.

Hugs,
Harley[/quote]

The anger is because of the betrayal. Her past is the past and I love her for who she is today. I now know she has a different view on sex than I do (from current conversations) and to learn this about a topic as important as sex is bothersome to me. Also knowing that she has quite apparently talked about this with her girlfriend and shared the information with her but not myself is not something a husband wants to find out.
No one likes to learn they have been kept in the dark by there spouse.
If the past is the past when why is it a topic of conversation between two girlfriends that have only known one another a few years. Obviously for my wife it is something she has no regrets over and is happy to share with a friend.

Also to find out she has enjoyed a sexual experience with a female is not ideal either. Not trying to compete with that if you follow my drift. Since I now know she would deceive rather than come clean how am I to know she has not done something with a female since? Obviously it causes trust issues when you discover you have ben lied to by your spouse. And she has an attraction to females and has taken that a step further and enjoyed the experience. I know have to wonder how often she thinks about being with a woman. I doubt she would ever tell me.
These are some of the very reasons I wanted to be with a like minded individual from the beginning. I don't want this confusion in my life and have seen what it can do to a marriage. Now I am forced to live with it.

I also see a pattern through the readings I have done on here. When a man lies he is genuinely ridiculed in the posts but when a man complains about being lied to by a woman there are a multitude of woman that jump on here and start stating what I did that would "make her lie"
I understand that it would have been hard for her to be truthful but we all need to be honest with people we are going to marry. The skeletons always come out of the closet eventually. If I voice to her that it is important to me (which I did) and she chose to lie (which she did) how is that in anyway my doing. We are talking about the person we sleep next to every night, and yes it has been a good 14 years but how will I ever know if she is satisfied with our sex life now that I know she has a genuine interest in woman as well. She would obviously never talk to me about it. If I was married to a woman but wanted to be sexual with men as well wouldn't that be an issue?
How would you all feel if your spouse came home and told you they actually had sex a while back with a person of the same sex and they enjoyed it. I know when it comes to sex the things I enjoy, I do as often as I can. She has to deny herself that to be faithful to me.. Hope she can..

I think the difference with the lying is that you're upset over a lie from 14 years ago and she lied because she was afraid to lose you - she didn't set out to hurt you. Big difference. Nobody here as taken your pain of being lied to lightly, and have agreed that it hurts, but we have heard from you that a lot of your problems are about sex. That's not a lying issue. And to be honest, most people don't see it as a massive lie anyway - especially as it seems she did it for the greater good - to be married happily to you. And as you've been happy, she was right wasn't she?

I also read a lot of presumptions with your wife, you talk about how she is attracted to women, and that you will never know if she has acted on it during your marriage, if she has been satisfied with you sexually and how you can't trust her. And how she is denying herself that attraction to be with you.
You know, you can only trust someone. If they go behind your back, they will do it anyway. Nothing you can do will stop it, but you can drive them to it by being negative and damning. I think after 14 years if your wife was that unhappy, you would know about it - but no, by your words, you've had a good marriage. Does that not tell you something?

I have a feeling that your wife's attraction is just that. An attraction. We do not always act on our attractions and feelings - we make a decision to remain faithful because of a partner being too fab to hurt and we love them. Do you ever think this way, rather than being negative over it all? She obviously adored you enough to lie in the past, and also to give up any thoughts of being with other women. Besides, attraction does not always mean that we want to act out on it (or again in the case of your wife). People go through life meeting others and being attracted to them but they do not always act on it. Heck, even grown women who should know better have sexual fantasies about film stars! It's just fantasy, a day dream, and that is human. Your wife is human, please forgive her and try to carry on that happy marriage you had huh?

Good luck..

ps - you ask why her lying in the past was your fault.. Perhaps its not, but the way you think of sex and had your own issues with it - fairly judgmental - makes me think that you may have put this over before you married and will be the same reason she will never talk about her attraction with you again. It's very hard to be truthful to someone when they are afraid to lose someone, especially when actually, her sexual past has nothing to do with you. This last bit you have trouble understanding. I know you wanted someone like you, but not everyone is like you sexually and really, it doesn't matter. And for fear of repeating myself, there is a LOT more to a person than their sexual history, as your wife has proved over and over again for the last 14 years.

I have no issue with 2 people in love having sex responsibly. I take issue with any other type of sex. Yes I had a terrible introduction to sex, but the only thing it left me with is a very clear understanding personally of what I deem acceptable and what I do not. I only wished to marry someone who held these same values. I was given the impression by my now wife that she felt the same way. I have recently discovered that she led me to believe that only to keep me, but now that she slipped up and I was able to learn the truth, she has come clean and I know now we have very different views.

I certainly do not wish to relive my past issue with sex and yes I have over the years dealt with the issue. I also became comfortable with my wife and thought I knew her sexually. Her lying to me has brought all of this to the surface and for that she is dealing with how I feel right now.
Her having to deal with it is deserved. That is what happens when you lie and are caught. You hurt others by lying to them, and taking others trust for granted, when they find out you have to deal with how it made them feel. This is why I deserved the truth 14 years ago. She took that choice away from me, so however I feel now, is how I feel now. I don't want to feel like this but her lying has caused it and now she can deal with me getting past it how I see fit.

I say leave it be and go on with your wife, she wouldn't have told you that if she didn't care. The past is the past, especially after 14 years of marriage, would you both agree to see a marriage counselor? It is commendable to forgive her past, it happened before you were married and we all have our junk with us. Just imagine how guilty she must have felt all those years of not saying anything!!

I do not watch TV but I do occasionally listen to songs on youtube. There has never been a mention of any threesome in any song and I am quite assured of my having a firm grip on reality which has been confirmed by my T... if you hear threesomes mentioned on everywhere, either yyour imagination is playing a cruel trick on you or...

... or you are in psychosis. You describe a weird worldvview and seem assured that everyone shares it and that everybody hears of threesomes on the radio. It eerily sugggests thepossibility of a psychosis so I would engage a professional. Maybe you need just a short period of time on antipsychotics to suppress your imagination and allow you to think more logically.

Well you wonder if she would ever tell you about attraction to women...

Have you ever had perhaps a tiny bit of a eureka moment during which. You would realize that... gasp... she might not want to share her attractions to women with a person who

Disapproves of FF attractionss

Is judgmental

Is bothered by FF attractions

Does not share her view on sex

Has acted irrationally in the past with regard to his own sexuality

Has a tendency to turn human conversations into interrogations short of having her sign ssworn affidavits

And the list goes on?..

...

Let me answer your question about how I would react if a man I am married to comes home and tells me that in the distant past he had and enjoyed sex with another man.

I would update the database I have in my brain with the new info deleting the original entry that classified him as completely straight and entering mostly straight but with possible bisexual leanings and. A record of some experimentation in the area of same sex attractions.

I would also give myself credit for being approachable enough.

If I can think of any other reaction later, I will post again.

The issue again is that you consider your idiosyncrasies standard worldview. People in reality differ quite widely.

So you compare with lying about being a virgin and I would respond to that too.

I do not think that you should interrogate your potential partner unless you have a valid need and the. Only valid need is STI risk. Virgin is a horribly loaded, charged term with all sorts of connotations and I do not think that compassionate and educated people should have it in their active vocabulary. That you have it in your active vocabulary in such a serious way devoid of any shade of irony and humor is. Unappealing.

Hmmmm, ((((CG)))) I am not entirely clear on the exact trauma that you experienced prior to meeting your now-wife, but clearly it affected you enough to create very strict boundaries in that a potential mate's sexual past was high priority on your list. Whatever happened to you, I am so sorry because it seems that this matter has brought forth deep trust issues. And some painful, awful memories.

I think it is absolutely understandable that you feel dazed, confused, angry, betrayed and hurt. Especially because it was of such vital importance to you that she was a certain "way".

I find it extremely curious that as an adult, and being married, you would be having three way texting with your spouse. Frankly, I don't mean to come off harsh, but it sounds pretty childish to me (Unless, for instance, you were planning a couples vacation and were sussing out the details where you all wanted to be included on the decision-making and plans).

In addition, I am not sure what makes you soo incredibly wonderful that your wife would want to be with you that badly that she would deceive you, lie to you in order to be with you (I say that because the only time I have ever heard someone so upset like this about feeling deceived into a relationship is if the person that is upset comes from money or has something very valuable to them that they want to definitely protect before saying "I do". I am surrounded by very wealthy people who must protect the fruit of their hard work or their family assets with a pre-nup. It is definitely not uncommon).

If you are concerned your wife may be unfaithful to you because she is attracted to other women and it is hard for you to live with that, I would consider T, couples T and if necessary a separation until you feel safe again with her. Why torment yourself?

And it sounds as if you are tormented right now about it.

Tbh, for as much as I love someone, if they did something that was solidly against my moral beliefs and values, and we'd already discussed the issue, and I learned my SO not only lied to me but had fantasies and thought about it (perhaps even leading to it happening again), I don't care how much time we were together, that person would be asked to leave my home while I figured things out and decided what I wanted to do about it.

I am a female and I don't support or excuse anyone's intentional deceit. If you feel you have been deceived, you have to work on feeling better and feeling whole again. For clearly, this has split you.

I am sure you do love your spouse very much, but I assume you love yourself and respect yourself enough that you would do something proactive instead of stewing in your own juices.

Do you understand what I am conveying here?

Best wishes to you.

Let us not have two disjoint threads. From your 5/28 introduction post:

((((Hammy)))) interesting.

((((CG)))) ????

Very interesting and unusual, which is why I wanted the two threads centralized.

Now I just feel confused. Thanks Hammy for bringing the "new" info to light.

To me the threads basically look as if written by two different individuals.

Hammy the lawyer at work. Down girl down....it sounds like you are in attack mode IMO against CG's moral values.

As for CG's moral values that he holds....he may be the minority out there in the world....but there are other's of us that feel that same way also....it's not just CG against the world who has those values & holds to them very strongly.......so I don't think it's right to put him down for those moral values that he has....he isn't alone it's just that you don't live your life around those people who hold those values dear & instead, deny that they exist out there in the world.

It is interesting how the wife doesn't claim to remember what happened, & then remembers it to be FFM & remembers the details.....seems to be some sort of lie of omission that was going on in the first place....how convenient not to remember some negative things that would cause a problem in the relationship one is trying to make work & then to just manage to text it openly while conversing with a GF......definitely confusing....but more on the wife's behavior personally IMO.

Eskie, I do not see any connection between morality and FMM. I just do not see how the technicality of the number of sexual partners at any given moment has anything to do with anything important - she clearly did not slit the throats of innocent infants.

My point of bringing the other thread into here was not to attack GG's "moral values" (no, I would never be able to appreciate how the number of partners has anything to do with "values" - for me "values" are something important, of the loving kindness type of thing, and do not hinge on technicalities, so there is no point in taking the thread astray for that sort of a discussion), but to bring his two threads together in the hope of shedding some light on the situation. The two threads are strikingly different, and, as I said, look as if written by two different individuals, or, at least, the same person but at different times of his life because we do feel and act differently as we move through life. Yet they were written at the same point in time.

One valid point of the current thread is that OP was clear on his expectations and the wife lied to him. So technically he is entitled to feel self-righteous in leaving her now, negating and disregarding 14 years of positive common history, because he was tricked into marrying her. It is probably not the wisest approach nor the most compassionate, but at least it is, technically speaking, valid.

GG did he talk about morality much - he talked about his idiosyncratic reaction to some very negative experience and his decision to seek a person who would match him in the level of (in)experience. The point of seeking commonality is valid and I understand the desire - speaking of lawyers, I did not hire a female lawyer who was decked out in a suit and wore lots of make-up and did hire a male lawyer who wears wrinkled shirts and whose jeans are not quite the right fit for him, because I seek commonality even in relationships with lawyers, and I am a messy, disorganized person myself so I am much more comfortable working with the guy in a wrinkled shirt than I would be working with a woman who applies wholesale quantities on make-up on a daily basis. So I can see how GG might have wanted commonality BEFORE the marriage. so BEFORE the marriage the point was valid. AFTER 14 years of marriage, he has a lot of facts on the wife about their commonality and the issue with the FMM should have no bearing any longer.

That leaves us with the issue of misrepresentation and nothing else.

The other thread, however, paints a completely different picture. The wife, as portrayed in the other thread, looks like a completely different person.

So that is all unusual.