Is that all my husband can ever talk about?

I love him, and we have a good marriage, but it's starting to really get on my nerves that at least 90 percent of his conversation is all about how tight money is, what he can and can't afford, what he has to work into the budget and save up for, what bills he's just paid, and what bills he has yet to pay.

Sure he's worried about money. Who isn't? But isn't there anything else to talk about?

I can't contribute financially, not yet, but it's being worked on. I've got my driver's licence, and Vocational Rehabilitation (to employ people with disabilities) is in the community assessment phase with me. We have to find me a volunteer position so they can watch me and see where my strengths and weakness are. But the thing is, I just got out of the hospital with a depression flareup. All that constant complaining about money puts pressure on me, makes me feel like he's pushing me to start earning and helping out with the bills, when I'm doing the best I can do, and it even makes me wonder if he'd be better off without me so he wouldn't have so many bills to worry about.

And if it's not money, it's all the chores around the house that he automatically assumes HE has to do, even if I've already told him that my daughter or I will take care of that. Sometimes he even complains that he has to do such and such, when I'm on the way to do it.

Why all this "I carry the whole load" attitude? Where is any acknowledgement of what anyone else does?

Heya

Sounds to me like this is two-fold. He's obviously worried, and doesn't realise that harping on about money is making you feel worthless, and then their is your own guilt or whatever which are making you feel like pants.

Have you sat him down and talked to him? Told him that you're trying, it takes time, but there's not a lot more you can do right now with the job? And try and tell him that he is probably not aware of it, but talking about money 90% of the time is making you feel awful. And I do think he may just not be aware of it and I also think that he may be a little down, feeling responsible for everything. I think he's got himself stuck in a rut with his way of thinking.

Chores can be more simply sorted out with a rota. Perhaps he will not presume he has to take on all of it when it's written down. Is your daughter is supportive of chores? Perhaps when he see's you both sticking to it, he may learn to let go a little of the reins.

I am also wondering if, if you do have a chat, that you could perhaps do something nice together as a couple or a family. As money is tight, something like a picnic? Even if you surprise him with one in the garden or a nearby park or something and show him that life isn't just about chores and bills.

Hugs

I think your assessment is pretty accurate, riot. I do feel worthless enough already. Not only am I incapable of contributing financially right now, and never will be able to pull in as much as he does, but because I have physical limitations as well as psychiatric difficulty, I can't even do as much around the house as a typical homemaker does. For example, I can either vacuum the carpets, or sweep and mop the linoleum floors, but not both of those in the same day. If I do too much physical labor, it puts me totally out of commission for several days afterward.

Whether it's bills or chores, the undercurrent in what he is going on and on about is, "I have to do it all." And that totally discounts whatever I *am* able to do. He automatically assumes he is going to have to do a chore himself, even if it is something I have been doing with a fair amount of regularity. Last night he said something about how it looks as if he is going to have to do laundry over the weekend, despite the fact that I had a load going in the washer right at that very moment!

I did try to tell him how it made me feel, but when I got to the part about thinking he's better off without me, he stopped me and said he didn't want to hear any more of that. So no, I really can't discuss it with him.

To hear him talk, he's the only one that ever contributes anything to the running of this household, either financially or industrially, and nobody else does a darn thing around here. And I'm getting just a little tired of being so unappreciated. I did manage to get that much said, to which he replied, "Well, I said thank you for bringing in the mail and the trash cans..." Then he thought it over and said thank you for each of the chores I had gotten done. That's fine as far as it goes, but then if his whole conversation afterward is to continue moaning about the burden he has to bear, it doesn't make me feel like I've taken very much of that burden off of him by what I'm able to do.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by Lovebird

to which he replied, "Well, I said thank you for bringing in the mail and the trash cans..." Then he thought it over and said thank you for each of the chores I had gotten done. .

Reflected on this passage for a bit. You are being 'thanked' for something that you would normally do. When I think about kids, do I expect to thank them, for every little thing that they are supposed to do? no.

Maybe, your husband, is the type that just is talking aloud? OK, I've got to do this, this , that, this..etc? And, he did marry you in sickness and health, right? So, he's pulling some extra weight around the home, because he's a 'caregiver'?

Maybe, a way to rework the thought process, instead of looking at it, as you aren't making it 50/50 in the home, you are doing what you can. And look at it, as he's helping too. Granted, you can't bring chores and finances to the table, you are his wife, and maybe, he's just speaking out loud, a mental check list of sorts?? He may be happy, just knowing you are there?!

Is he like that at work, do you know? running mental checklists, of things he needs to get done?

[Perna]

Originally Posted by Lovebird

Whether it's bills or chores, the undercurrent in what he is going on and on about is, "I have to do it all."

I would talk to him about the undercurrent you perceive and what you see as his attitude and have a discussion of how you fit in, can help him, what you all's long term goals are, etc.

I think we are pretty much raised with our attitudes about money and then we reinforce them as we work with money, etc. I know my husband is super responsible but worries about the future a bit too much.

Trying to help him, I work hard to word things the way he can "hear" them and I try to see what he is working toward/stressing about and complement him on how well he manages the money.

I thought of my own fears and how they were making me anxious and worked to get him to help me with them, he wrote a "book" about our money and investments for me so if something happens to him, I'll have a clue Sometimes I sit with him and work on the bills/investments and we have a lot of discussions about what he is doing and why, etc.

Just taking an interest in "his" money and bills, bills and money might help him feel a bit calmer and less alone? I have found it is quite easy and interesting to broaden discussion about an aspect of our money use or investments into a more interesting-to-me, broader conversation. It sounds like your husband needs to be comforted/calmed down about the money and helped to see there are other things he can look at, that the bills aren't going to go anywhere if he thinks/talks about something else

I was just thinking, I don't want to sound like I don't appreciate being thanked. He'll often thank me for cooking supper, after which I will thank him for working to buy the food. It sounds strange to some, but it's a good way of not taking each other for granted. Maybe.

I don't know if checklists are much of his conversation with co-workers. His work day is pretty much mapped out for him. Literally, because he's a bus driver. He already knows what routes he'll be driving, and where he'll be at what time of day, up to four months in advance. I think his primary topic of conversation with co-workers is to swap "stupid passenger of the day" stories. At times he'll bring one those home to me too.

As an aside, that can be another minor source of annoyance. Any time there is a conflict between a passenger and a driver, it's always the passenger's fault. Darned if you can get him to say the driver may have even partially contributed. I can tell him about a mean thing one of my parents said or did, or a classmate from childhood, or a troll online, or a rude sales clerk, and he won't hesitate to say how abusive, unprofessional, or out of place it was. But let it be a clash I had with another bus driver, any bus driver, whether one of his co-workers or some random joe he never met, from a transit system across the country, and all of a sudden he can't give an opinion. "I wasn't there. I don't know the facts. I'd have to hear both sides." It can be maddening the way he'll stick by another bus driver, no matter what, even before he'll stick by *me* no matter what.

He'll say that yes, he appreciates me just being here, and doing what I'm capable of doing. Probably the fact that his first wife, who did earn equal to what he did, but considered it her personal spending money while he paid all of the bills, and then wouldn't lift a finger around the house because she considered housework beneath her lofty self, contributes to his mindset. In his first marriage, he really did have to do it all. And he was married to her for almost 20 years, while he's been married to me for less than 5. But I am NOT her, and I don't like being put in the same category. Is it just leftover stuff he hasn't gotten out of his system yet?

He has stopped actually uttering the words, "I have to do everything around here." He's finally realizing that "everything" means I contribute nothing, and he may not want to imply that. But he still hints at that conclusion, by his conversation. It's one thing to say "thank you," which is nice even for routine things I normally do. But it's another to act like it makes any difference at all that I did it, and sadly, he doesn't.

Perna, you and I simul-posted. I haven't read yours yet. Let me read it over, and I'll get back to you.

ETA, I especially love your last line about how the bills won't go anywhere if he thinks and talks about something else for a while. Of course he should worry enough to work for his wages and pay them, but he doesn't have to obsess about them to do that.

Maybe I can join in the discussion for as long as it takes to get all the information he wants to convey, then guide the subject to something else?

[Perna]

It sounds like as much as he stresses about being able to do it "all" he is a bit of a martyr about it, too? I'd relax in myself and try to do a little teasing of him when he gets into martyr mode? I'd reinforce some of his "pride" in doing it all; he did pick both his ex-wife who could support herself monetarily and did not and you who cannot but would be happy to help and seems to have the same attitude so it sounds to me like it is "him".

"You go, boy!"

I think it is natural for him to support all bus drivers; none of us want to consider we could be vulnerable to mistakes, etc. He identifies with bus drivers, he does not with parents, trolls, sales clerks, etc. It would be nice if he were able to be more impartial but, in a sense, you'd be asking him to support you instead of himself by agreeing a bus driver was at fault? Everyone has things like that they can't see and it can be frustrating when it is in our loved ones but I have chosen to either ignore or be amused/tender toward things like that in my husband. I know I say/exhibit some frustrating points of view over and over and I know my husband does not respond negatively; sometimes, too, what I see in others can be a problem I have with myself and not that big a deal overall.

"Martyr" is exactly one of the words that went through my mind. He wants to be seen as self-sacrificing. For example, he'll buy me anything I need, without hesitation. I say I need it, and he'll provide it usually within a month. But he'll let his own clothes, underwear, socks, shoes, belts, and wallets wear down to holes he could drive one of those buses through, before he'll figure their replacements into the budget. Besides work uniforms, I haven't seen him buy new clothes for himself since we've been together, and some of his jeans and t-shirts are hardly holding together anymore. The only way he'll have anything new is if I save up the occasional pocket money he gives me, and buy it for his birthday or something. Incidentally, the other day he commented to my daughter that he tries to give me twenty dollars out of every paycheck, so I don't have to leave the house empty-handed, but that if he forgets to give it to me, he finds it puzzling that I don't even remind him. Well, I'm not a kid asking daddy for my allowance. I don't feel entitled to it. It's just something nice he does.

Maybe he's looking to be built up as a hero?

[Perna]

I bought my husband socks for Christmas this last year He is overweight/pre-diabetic and needed "wider" socks and I found some he liked. But a month or so ago I got a discount coupon on a new store opening in our area and we did a trip out to it to buy more socks, LOL. It was a great combination of making sure he was cared for and just a fun outing (we had breakfast at the diner in the area that we knew about) and kind of showing him that even superman needs new socks occasionally too.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by Lovebird

"Incidentally, the other day he commented to my daughter that he tries to give me twenty dollars out of every paycheck, so I don't have to leave the house empty-handed, but that if he forgets to give it to me, he finds it puzzling that I don't even remind him. ?

A martyr and a worrier

He does sound a little like a martyr.. perhaps he plain ol' enjoys moaning? My partner does, especially when it comes to DIY. Loves to play the victim, moans a ton, swears like a trouper and sometimes comes close to having a full-on toddler tantrum! I used to find it amusing, then it started to upset me because it rubbed off on me, but then I figured out that he may sound angry/upset but he actually wasn't. So now I poke fun.

Originally Posted by Lovebird

I did try to tell him how it made me feel, but when I got to the part about thinking he's better off without me, he stopped me and said he didn't want to hear any more of that. So no, I really can't discuss it with him.

Please do not give up trying to talk, esp as it's upsetting you, both of you as it seems. Forgive me for saying this, but to say things like he is better off without you is probably too strong. You may feel it, but it's very emotional, or it can come over as you wanting sympathy or it's self-pity. He may just be annoyed at you for bringing that up, especially if he loves you and wouldn't think such a thing! Men don't seem to handle that sort of things so well, and I was wondering if it's worth trying to talk again without too much with your emotions? Try and be more matter-of-fact if that's the kind of language he speaks?

I think it's fab that you thank each other for little things you do. If you are feeling guilty about so much, (which I think does contribute to your feelings over this matter), are there other ways or things that you can make him feel valued or share the load? Rub his shoulders, bake a fav cake or whatever he likes that may make him a bit more mellow and less moaning and make you feel a little less guilty and a little bit more supportive. At least if none of that works to stop him moaning, you can let go a little bit of the guilt and feel less rubbish when he's on one of his money/housework talks.

And just a last thought, as I mentioned about the picnic before - if life is just cleaning and money worries, then there will be little to talk about. Perhaps trying to go out, even just occasionally, or doing something nice in your own garden will give you more fun things to chat about? I don't know if you do go out and about, but thought it was worth throwing it in there.

Hugs.

We're in the Pacific Northwest of the US, and planning a little two-day stay in Vancouver, BC, Canada some time next month. I think that will break up the monotony for him.

Today he's working overtime, which is unfortunately necessary, because after all, money *is* tight. Daughter has moved in with us. She's 27 and also disabled with bipolar disorder, and has not been able to keep it together for herself. She's not quite stable yet, although better than she was, and is trying to get disability benefits. Right now she gets a very small amount of temporary state aid and food stamps, which is better than no income at all, which is what I have. Hubby is basically supporting all three of us, while we contribute what we can, she a tiny bit more financially.

Which means that, ex-wife and son taken into account, he's supporting the same number of people on basically the same level of income he was in his first marriage. Can't count the ex's earnings, since she never used it toward household needs. I'm sure my stepson did what he could when he was growing up, and hubby also tells me sometimes Grandma came over to help out because ex-wife didn't do her share. So he had a little bit of help then, but more routinely now. Surely he's figured out by now that we're willing to pitch in where needed. Instead of "thinking out loud" about everything *he* has to do, prompting me to assure him one of us will gladly do it, how about if he just asks us to do it? That's what I don't get. Unless it's force of habit.

Which reminds me. Earlier on in our marriage, he did used to ask me to do such routine jobs as washing the dishes or cleaning the litter boxes, things I do regularly whether asked or not. I used to take mild offense to that, wondering why he considered me so incompetent as a homemaker that he'd have to tell me to do those things, but then he gradually stopped telling me. On one occasion, after lunch, he asked me to please wipe the table afterward, *while I was walking toward the table with a wet rag in my hand!*

"Honey....."
(Sheepish) "I know. You would have done it anyway."
"Then why did you feel the need to ask me to?"
"I don't know. Maybe this cold [he had one] is short-circuiting my brain."

Then he kissed me on the forehead (didn't want to give me his cold) and left for work, after I playfully spanked him on the rear and told him to quit worrying and trust me. We both took that as a humorous moment.

The post was interrupted with his check-in call. He does that every day that he works. Two or three times, if he can squeeze it in. I assured him things were getting done. I've started the second load of laundry. Daughter mowed our postage-stamp sized back yard. Homeowner's association takes care of the front. I'm taking the car out for an oil change (he's got his pickup truck) and daughter will vacuum while I'm away doing that. When I come home, I had worked out with daughter that if she mowed and vacuumed, I'd take care of the back yard weeds.

So that's all of the chores he assumed *he* was going to have to do besides working overtime. Maybe that chore list is a good idea for future weekends. If he has it in his head who's going to do what, whether or not he's working that day, maybe he can rest easier.

Originally Posted by Lovebird

Surely he's figured out by now that we're willing to pitch in where needed. Instead of "thinking out loud" about everything *he* has to do, prompting me to assure him one of us will gladly do it, how about if he just asks us to do it? That's what I don't get. Unless it's force of habit.

Which reminds me. Earlier on in our marriage, he did used to ask me to do such routine jobs as washing the dishes or cleaning the litter boxes, things I do regularly whether asked or not. I used to take mild offense to that, wondering why he considered me so incompetent as a homemaker that he'd have to tell me to do those things, but then he gradually stopped telling me

Do you see what I see in the above? That you are not happy that he doesn't just ask you outright to do something rather than 'thinking out loud'. And then you write that earlier in the marriage you took mild offense to him doing exactly that... and he stopped telling you.

I think you guys really do need to talk! I wonder if a lot of the upset and slow-building resentment is born out of bad communication?

Absolutely true. I did catch that. What I'm trying to say is, I don't need to be asked to do routine jobs I do every day whether asked or not. Most homemakers do those little tasks as a matter of course, don't they? What kind of homemaker has to be asked to wash the dishes after a meal? I assumed he'd stopped asking me to do the dishes because he caught on that they would get done even if he didn't ask. But if it's a job that isn't done every day, one that he is accustomed to doing himself, he is welcome ask me if I can do that. "Can" is the operative word here, not "will," since my capabilities can vary with my health.

Back from the oil change to find that daughter has not yet vacuumed. There are several possible reasons. She seems to be having a bad day and is barely responding to my attempts at speaking to her. She didn't even return my "see you later" when I left to do the oil change; just kept staring at the television. She could be still adjusting to her medication. I take hydroxyzine too, as needed, while she takes it daily, and I know it can knock a person out at first. It's also hot in here because our part of the country doesn't generally have air-conditioned homes, and we're going through something of a heat wave. Not as bad as the rest of the country. We usually aren't. But for us, it's pretty hot. Maybe she's still worn out from mowing earlier. Hubby works afternoons into evenings and will be home around 10:30 PM tonight. Currently it's 6:45. As long as it's done before he's home, I'm not worried. I'm waiting until about sunset to do the weeding, so I won't overheat, myself.

To show I love him, I also paid for a car wash out of my own pocket, something that he hadn't mentioned needing to be done, but it did.

Again the post was interrupted by a check-in call from work. He's on his lunch break and had more time than just a stopover at the end of a route. We just had a loooooong talk about finances and household chores, in which I actively participated and complimented his expertise at financial management. I filled him in on my employment goals, which he now understands better, and he made it clear he was in no way trying to communicate to me, "Get up off your @$$ and get a job!"

He was very pleased about the car wash, as he had forgotten to mention it but was planning to do that some time this weekend. Now he doesn't have to. Turns out he had also washed his truck on the way to work. He offered to repay me for what I spent. I told him he didn't have to; it's my car too. We worked it out that he can give me back half of it and consider it a joint expenditure. He's very happy that he won't have a thing to do when he comes home tonight, and he can just relax until Monday.

Per your suggestion, riot, I brought up the subject of his asking me to do things, and how he's welcome to ask if I can help with something that doesn't get done every day, so he doesn't feel obligated to do that himself.

The funniest part of the conversation was when I asked if he's feeling less stressed now that everything is getting done, and instead of answering yes or no, he went into a long-range budget plan, talking about mortgages and retirement. I again complimented his ability to manage finances, "but I asked if you're feeling less stressed now." He said he is, a little bit. I think that's the best I can expect.

Thanks for the help, all.

[mojo321]

I see you have covered quite a bit here. But I was drawn in to read it all because of the "Bills" issue that you started the thread with.

One thing that I REALLY wish my wife would do is get involved with the bills. No, I don't mean writing the checks and purring them in the envelopes, etc. I mean looking at how much we spend and how it is too much.

When I make little comments about how we have this bill or that bill, or that we are spending too much, it is actually just a statement that WE don't have a money tree. If there is something you want or need, we need to have that figured into the budget.

The problem was, I was the only one ever looking at the budget. Or even trying to MAKE a budget.

So then ANY comment I make about money was interpreted as "I am your daddy. Here is your allowance. You are spending too much. We can't afford that..." That was very offensive to her. And for good reason! But then she would turn around the next day and go buy some new throw pillows. Or I would get home from work and she'd say "I really don't feel like making dinner. Let's eat out tonight" to which I would say, "OK honey". But then make more money comments the next day.

All I was ever looking for was some personal ownership in the same financial issues that I was facing. SHARE in the financial burden. Not by going out and getting a job, but by sitting down with me and looking at the actual numbers so that we can agree what our target spending limits were. It does no good for me to make a budget that she pretends doesn't exist, and then have her upset that all I do is talk about how we can't afford this or that.

Anyway, I finally got her involved in the budget. And no, that doesn't mean giving her $20 to have to spend however she wishes. That's an allowance. That's degrading. Now, she sees the same numbers I see. She pays the same bills I pay. And if she wants something not in the budget, she has to figure out where it is going to come from, just like I do.

The result has been great! I thank her for making dinner more sincerely, because we both know that the real reason is that we saved money! We both know we are working toward a goal of getting out of debt so we can take a vacation together.

This relationship issue of money and control can be a real killer between a man and a woman.

[healingme4me]

You got me, at the 'this post was interrupted' for a 'check-in' call!!!

Been there, done that. Then the philosophizing in myself comes to roost on the 'check-in' call. Is it, to make sure, I am OK? Or is it, to sooth, the need to be reminded that there is someone else at the other end of the phone? Is it OCD in nature? Where do these interruptions in life, ever end? How can I possibly, get anything done with the phone ringing? Even a 5 minute, hi, hello, how are you, turns into another 10 minutes, absorbing the call, replaying it. More minutes if it upset me, on some level, I mean when can one possibly have just 8 hours to get the 'job' done, without interruption? ((this turned more into me, than about you...just wow...guess that's what makes this PC central? ))

Things are going pretty smoothly right now. I think my husband feels as you do, mojo, that he just wants me aware of the ins and outs. Employment for me is a goal, but all we need is a part-time minimum wage position somewhere, to help offset my medical costs. I can't do as his first wife did. She worked for the same company and drew the same benefits. If she didn't contribute to household expenses, at least they had each other covered on their health insurance, so that eliminated co-pays. Me, I generate co-pays all over the place, every doctor visit and every medication. If I just had a small income, I could take care of my own co-pays, and he wouldn't have to fit that much into the budget.

Yeah, that $20 out of every paycheck does kind of feel like an allowance, but he doesn't mean it as degradation. He insists on giving it to me because he doesn't want me stuck penniless somewhere if something happens while I'm out. I'm diabetic, and if maybe my blood sugar starts to drop, I can stop for a bite to eat. I don't have to worry about transportation if the car breaks down, which isn't real likely because he maintains the vehicles well, but anything can happen. Since he's a bus driver, I ride for free. But if it's after hours or a holiday, and the buses aren't running, at least I'll be able to take a cab if something absolutely dire happens. Usually I hold that money for emergencies if I can, and don't spend it unless there is something I really, really want or need. I'm pretty confident the "allowance" will stop when I'm earning my own.

In fact, whaddaya wanna bet I'll be spending a good chunk of my paycheck on things HE needs but won't buy for himself, like socks and underwear?