[ShaggyChic_1201]

I need opinions on 2 issues. First some background

I'm married for ~10 yrs. Troubles of various sorts throughout. Early in marriage he ordered, cajoled, wheedled, connived and manipulated me into doing some deviant sexual things that shamed me terribly. After a year, I finally put my foot down and stopped.

At inpatient & outpatient T last year (2011), I told him about how ashamed I was and that I would never do anything like it again. He defended himself (you liked the attention, you got to wear pretty clothes, I only did it so you'd see how beautiful you are) and said that I was just making him out to be a monster to get attention from the therapists.

Now to yesterday.

First he said he had wanted to approach me for sex the night before but didn't want me to feel used.

The he said, "I might have to avail myself of your services every night for the next two weeks as I wean myself off myself and porn"

Then he wrote an email saying he was very excited b/c he'd just received the new sex toy he'd ordered and he couldn't wait for me to get home. [Note, buying the toy didn't bother me]. Lastly, he wrote, want to go to (name of sex club) this weekend?

Issue 1 - Has nothing I said sunk in? I'm not going to do it, but is it ok for him to ask?

Issue 2 - Am I obligated to give him "services" every night just b/c he wants to stop looking at porn? Is this a legitimate way of going about that? He is a sex addict with multiple issues, but tells me that he wants to substitute me for the anonymous women. I just don't think I could do it everynight. Does that make me responsible if he can't quit porn?

Sorry for long post. Very confused with my rights and responsibilities.

Issue 1 - Doesn't sound like a thing has sunk in.. and Issue 2, he's emotionally manipulating you. Of course you're not obligated, you're a human being and you do not have to do anything you do not want to do. I bet its not written in your wedding vows.. 'thou shall give into my husbands every sexual whim'.

If it were me, I'd have told him to sod off, and stick to porn. Sounds like he's a bit of a sex addict and has problems. I only say this because he's not listening to you, or respecting you, so then it equals a problem. Of course you're not responsible for him if he doesn't quit porn, no more responsible than him looking at it. He's a grown man, and all of his actions and decisions are his own. Its just ludicrous quite frankly for him to put all of this on you. Sorry, sometimes I do not mince my words, apologies if I sound bolshy.

There's so so very much more to marriage, and of course you than just sex.

What are you going to do?

[adam_k]

It sounds like he is objectifying you and I'm sure that kills your self esteem. I don't think people like feeling like sex objects. Maybe it just comes across that way. I think two people need to be on the same page when it comes to sexual frequency.

I have mixed emotions about the subject. In the last couple of months before this fall out, I wanted sex everyday. I think I was over compensating for my lack of interest in the previous months. I also wanted to show her I though she was still pretty and that I still wanted her. It was a bit of selfishness as well. I generally enjoy sex. For me I like the closeness and intimacy it brings. To be connected deeply, the pleasure and give and take between two people. I felt fulfilled being able to satisfy her, and I enjoyed when I finshed. Honestly, it is the only time in my life that I experience bliss. The moments afterwards, when you are laying there looking at each other and you know you are loved. I would take that feeling everyday if I could. That is just my 2 cents.

[adam_k]

I also don't think you have to please him every night. It sounds a little selfish if you ask me. Maybe once a week is too little, but it should be a mutual discussion between you too and there should be and understanding.

Does it have to always be sex? There other ways for him to get his, if you don't want to do it. Oral, mutual masturbation, or somethings like that. Is that an option? Best of luck. As a husband, I know we can be dense and stubborn. We also want what we want and sometimes can't see how much it bothers our spouses. I wish you the best in finding a mutual beneficial agreement.

[LovelaceF]

I think it is ok for him to ask, and ok for you to say no. Do what you're comfortable doing. If you would feel used, don't proceed further, but if not, then it would probably be a positive experience for your marriage.

[Leed]

He's trying to "wean" himself off sex, and he's trying to USE her to do that.

She does not have to participate in ANYTHING for him to do that if she does't want to, and it sounds like she doesn't. He's being totally selfish, and he's an adult. He can wean himself off by himself, like a big boy! It's time for him to "man up" and stop using her for his own pleasure or his own "use."

Obviously nothing sunk in. I guess you're going to have to hit him over the head before he "gets it."

Your marriage vows didn't say "I promise to be used."

God bless and please take care. Hugs, Lee

[LovelaceF]

Originally Posted by Leed

He's trying to "wean" himself off sex, and he's trying to USE her to do that.

Yes, he's trying to use her to fulfil his carnal needs. One could argue, though, that that's part of the "package" in a traditional marriage.

We promise to be faithful to our spouses, and our spouses promise to be faithful to us. In exchange for that faithfulness, I think it's important to recognize that our spouses have needs too.

No, she shouldn't feel pressured or allow her husband to do something that she's not comfortable with. Yes, he sounds a bit thick headed.

Still, he's trying to give up porn (a good thing, I would think) and he wants her help. If she doesn't mind helping, then what's the harm?

[justmemaybe]

you wrote "Issue 2 - Am I obligated to give him "services" every night just b/c he wants to stop looking at porn"

The answer is No.....

You two are married , its suppose to be about making love.

Honestly after what I went threw. Get out fast. Your a person not a sex toy.
Be safe

[adam_k]

I think the harm is that she feels used. I think sex should be a mutual happy experience. If one partner is just wanting sex to sataify his needs then I don't think that is right. In my opinion sex should be about an intimate connection to someone. When else are you really that connected to someone else? Maybe he is bad at sex too. If he is just satistfying his needs that I bet that feels pretty awful. I don't know what it is like from a women's prespective, but it sounds like the sex is a little on sided. Like she is just there as a warm body and not as a partner. I don't know either of you or your releationship.

Do you find the sex satsifying at least? Or is it more you laying there and he does what he wants for a little while until it is over? I think open communication is what would help. I also believe it is ok for you to say no. You don't have to please him everytime he is in the mood. I am one for pleasing my partner, but it shouldn't be driven out of guilt. I wouldn't force my partner to have more sex because I wanted to stop watching porn. You also don't need porn to pleasure yourself. I admit it does help me, but people also need to have self control. It sounds like sex is somewhat of an obession of his. Has he thought about talking to a sex therapist?

[avlady]

Yes i say they should see a sex therapist, there are other things that sex is expressing in a marriage, it's the taking the garbage out, help cleaning the house, driving the other person somewhere, being taken care of when you're sick,help with the kids if any, and all the little things we do for the other in the dayitme which make us feel like having sex, that is my opinion. I think it is more in the heart and sometimes that starts in the head as to what leads us to want to make love for all of the good reasons mentioned above.

[LovelaceF]

Originally Posted by avlady

Yes i say they should see a sex therapist, there are other things that sex is expressing in a marriage, it's the taking the garbage out, help cleaning the house, driving the other person somewhere, being taken care of when you're sick,help with the kids if any, and all the little things we do for the other in the dayitme which make us feel like having sex, that is my opinion. I think it is more in the heart and sometimes that starts in the head as to what leads us to want to make love for all of the good reasons mentioned above.

Yes, definitely, and it can also be about punishing someone for past wrongs.

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

Yes, he's trying to use her to fulfil his carnal needs. One could argue, though, that that's part of the "package" in a traditional marriage.

We promise to be faithful to our spouses, and our spouses promise to be faithful to us. In exchange for that faithfulness, I think it's important to recognize that our spouses have needs too.

No, she shouldn't feel pressured or allow her husband to do something that she's not comfortable with. Yes, he sounds a bit thick headed.

Still, he's trying to give up porn (a good thing, I would think) and he wants her help. If she doesn't mind helping, then what's the harm?

Absolutely not part of the package of a traditional marriage! Shocking actually, what you've written. Sex is a gift, not a right just because a person is married. Every single person on this planet should have a say on what they do with their bodies and there are no exceptions just because there's a ring on the finger.

Did you read the rest of her post? I think you should re-read it to understand actually what he is like towards her and take in the whole picture.

[LovelaceF]

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

Absolutely not part of the package of a traditional marriage! Shocking actually, what you've written. Sex is a gift, not a right just because a person is married. Every single person on this planet should have a say on what they do with their bodies and there are no exceptions just because there's a ring on the finger.

Did you read the rest of her post? I think you should re-read it to understand actually what he is like towards her and take in the whole picture.

I think you've misunderstood me. I didn't say anything about sex being a man's right, regardless of how his wife feels. I said that she should only do what she feels comfortable doing.

I read the post, and understand that she's felt used in the past. She is feeling that he's trying to pressure her again. She doesn't want any indication that she is an object of sexual fantasy. She wants to be treated with respect and dignity, and not as a "thing". All of those things are completely understandable and undeniably valid.

However, I also think that a marriage without a good sexual relationship that is beneficial for BOTH partners is, for all intents and purposes, doomed. They should have a sexual relationship that is MUTUALLY beneficial. That means that he should be considerate of her needs, and at the same time, she should be considerate of his needs.

There is no point in staying in a marriage, IMO, if one spouse is not even willing to CONSIDER that the other person has needs. He sounds like he has some issues to work through and possibly an addiction. So, she needs to decide whether she will work through those things with him, or continue to punish him for his misbehaviour.

At some point, years of issues in a marriage can only pile up so high before something has to change. Husband and wife can actively work to clear the pile, one person can try to manage the stack on their own, or both can ignore the issues until they come crashing down.

Those are choices that one or both parties make. Her choice is to either:

1) Listen to her husband's needs and try to help.
2) Listen to her husband's needs but not help.
3) Ignore her husband's needs and focus on her own needs.
4) Ask her husband to listen to her needs instead.
5) Try to work something out that would benefit both husband and wife.

It seems like she's leaning toward option #3, which is not a choice that will benefit the marriage. That's valid, and sometimes people just get tired of trying to fix a relationship and dealing with issues. That starts them down the road to divorce. If divorce is where she wants to end up, then #3 is a fine choice for her.

However, if she would rather FIX the marriage, then I think it would be better for OP to try one of the other options. OP's husband put his foot in his mouth when he said that he needed to "avail" her of her "services". That was a poor word choice and a dumb way to ask.

On the other hand, he was considerate of her the day before, and said that he didn't want her to feel used. She didn't take pity on him when he hinted patiently that he wanted her to come to him, though. So, he tried a new tactic which was outright asking, except in an oafish and insensitive way. That might have worked if he'd pulled it off with some humour and didn't dredge up her misgivings. Clearly, he failed, though.

So, it's now OPs move and what happens next is up to her. I think it's worth her considering all of her options.

[shortandcute]

My first husband treated me like an object. I didn't mind having sex on a regular basis, or even being a little "playful." But he was abusive; it excited him to beat the **** out of me and then force me to have sex with him. I wasn't allowed to enjoy sex at all; if I started to act like I enjoyed it, he would get really mad--but he wanted it all the time. He liked doing things that he knew physically hurt me, but then he wondered why I stopped wanting to have sex! It got to the point where I couldn't stand him even touching me; I felt like I wanted to vomit every time he touched me. He had no love for me at all. just wanted me as a sex toy.

[adam_k]

Originally Posted by shortandcute

My first husband treated me like an object. I didn't mind having sex on a regular basis, or even being a little "playful." But he was abusive; it excited him to beat the **** out of me and then force me to have sex with him. I wasn't allowed to enjoy sex at all; if I started to act like I enjoyed it, he would get really mad--but he wanted it all the time. He liked doing things that he knew physically hurt me, but then he wondered why I stopped wanting to have sex! It got to the point where I couldn't stand him even touching me; I felt like I wanted to vomit every time he touched me. He had no love for me at all. just wanted me as a sex toy.

That sounds so horrible. I'm sorry you had to go through that. He sounds like an awful person.

[LovelaceF]

Originally Posted by shortandcute

My first husband treated me like an object. I didn't mind having sex on a regular basis, or even being a little "playful." But he was abusive; it excited him to beat the **** out of me and then force me to have sex with him. I wasn't allowed to enjoy sex at all; if I started to act like I enjoyed it, he would get really mad--but he wanted it all the time. He liked doing things that he knew physically hurt me, but then he wondered why I stopped wanting to have sex! It got to the point where I couldn't stand him even touching me; I felt like I wanted to vomit every time he touched me. He had no love for me at all. just wanted me as a sex toy.

That's horrible. So sorry you've had to go through something like this.

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

I think you've misunderstood me. I didn't say anything about sex being a man's right, regardless of how his wife feels. I said that she should only do what she feels comfortable doing.

I read the post, and understand that she's felt used in the past. She is feeling that he's trying to pressure her again. She doesn't want any indication that she is an object of sexual fantasy. She wants to be treated with respect and dignity, and not as a "thing". All of those things are completely understandable and undeniably valid.

However, I also think that a marriage without a good sexual relationship that is beneficial for BOTH partners is, for all intents and purposes, doomed. They should have a sexual relationship that is MUTUALLY beneficial. That means that he should be considerate of her needs, and at the same time, she should be considerate of his needs.

There is no point in staying in a marriage, IMO, if one spouse is not even willing to CONSIDER that the other person has needs. He sounds like he has some issues to work through and possibly an addiction. So, she needs to decide whether she will work through those things with him, or continue to punish him for his misbehaviour.

At some point, years of issues in a marriage can only pile up so high before something has to change. Husband and wife can actively work to clear the pile, one person can try to manage the stack on their own, or both can ignore the issues until they come crashing down.

Those are choices that one or both parties make. Her choice is to either:

1) Listen to her husband's needs and try to help.
2) Listen to her husband's needs but not help.
3) Ignore her husband's needs and focus on her own needs.
4) Ask her husband to listen to her needs instead.
5) Try to work something out that would benefit both husband and wife.

It seems like she's leaning toward option #3, which is not a choice that will benefit the marriage. That's valid, and sometimes people just get tired of trying to fix a relationship and dealing with issues. That starts them down the road to divorce. If divorce is where she wants to end up, then #3 is a fine choice for her.

However, if she would rather FIX the marriage, then I think it would be better for OP to try one of the other options. OP's husband put his foot in his mouth when he said that he needed to "avail" her of her "services". That was a poor word choice and a dumb way to ask.

On the other hand, he was considerate of her the day before, and said that he didn't want her to feel used. She didn't take pity on him when he hinted patiently that he wanted her to come to him, though. So, he tried a new tactic which was outright asking, except in an oafish and insensitive way. That might have worked if he'd pulled it off with some humour and didn't dredge up her misgivings. Clearly, he failed, though.

So, it's now OPs move and what happens next is up to her. I think it's worth her considering all of her options.

First of all, on your list of options. Where does it say that his needs are OTT? He's a sex addict. You're not talking about a normal, run of the mill relationship here and shouldn't be treated that way.

And yes, he was considerate to her the day before. But was this one day? And wasn't the consideration good points completely undone when he told her that he needed her for 2 weeks for sex every night? And you choice of words 'Take pity on him', for what? For wanting a night off sex? From no longer agreeing to be his sex object and bowing down to the not inconsiderable pressure he puts on her? I am again, left flabbergasted by what you think, and most certainly by your choice of words.

I do not see how you can fail to understand that this is no way to treat his wife. IF she was a sex addict too, then marriage made in heaven. But, as she's already pointed out, she isn't and she's been treated less than well by the very man who is supposed to love, support and treat her well.

And yes, I agree, she has choices to make. BUT SO DOES THE HUSBAND.

Wow.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by bubsmiley

Does that make me responsible if he can't quit porn?

Sorry for long post. Very confused with my rights and responsibilities.

You are indeed very confused.

There is an underlying fallacy that needs to be addressed, and, once it is addressed, everything will become clear.

You view yourself as a guilty party. You ponder whether you are responsible for his using porn. Where does the feeling of guilt derive from? You view porn as something bad, hence the feeling of guilt.

In what way can porn be bad?

Is it a crime?

Well, with crimes, usually there is an element of harm and a presence of a victim or victims. Murder and theft fall into this category.

It is also possible to have a crime that violates a rule - hopefully, a non-arbitrary rule that has been put in place to prevent potential harm to innocent victims. DUI/DWI falls in this category. A driver with BAC (blood alcohol content) above the legal limit can be stopped and arrested even if he/she has not caused an accident. This is because drunk driving CAN cause accidents that would endanger people's lives so there is a justification to arresting people who drive with high BAC. Then, they may plead guilty in court.

There are also crimes that are considered crimes in order to prevent harm to people who cannot stand up for themselves. Statutory rape falls in this category.

Where would porn be?

Clearly, viewing porn is not a violation of any rule. We have rules on the BAC allowed for legal driving, they vary by state and depend on the driver's age, etc., but we have nothing of that sort for viewing porn.

Is there harm to any innocent victim? On the surface, there clearly is none. Porn viewing is a solitary activity in the case of your husband so he cannot possibly harm anybody.

There may be a very very attenuated connection that would attempt to make YOU the victim of his porn viewing. Let me try a hypothetical.

Imagine that sperm were in short supply. I have not found it to be the case in my 42 years - I was raised under socialism and have lived through dairy products being in short supply, boots and shoes being in very short supply, and all sorts of commodities being in short supply, but I have never lived through a shortage of sperm. For the sake of the hypothetical, though, let us imagine that there existed a critical shortage of sperm.

Critical shortages often necessitate wartime-like measures, such as rations.

So let us picture rations of sperm in your household. As his lawful wife, you have the right to the rations. If he spends his sperm on porn, he robs you of your ration, and that act victimizes you. So you are the victim. Very attenuated, but still something.

Further, can porn viewing be akin to statutory rape in that it involves parties unable to give meaningful consent? No, since it involves him, an adult, and the material he views (hopefully, one that was produced using adult actors who were paid for their time and skill or adult amateurs who derived satisfaction from performing for free). The material may be copyrighted so there might be intellectual property issues all the way to criminal intellectual property theft but it is unlikely and I won't go into that at all (plus, you as his wife would never be responsible for his intellectual property violations in any case -- you can only be responsible for the debts he incurs while married to you, but not for violations of copyright or his DUI/DWI and so on and so forth).

Given the above, most likely, porn viewing is not a crime, hence you cannot be responsible.

Or, it is a crime with you as the sole victim. Victims of rape or other forceful violations are not held responsible for their own victimization.

So either way you are not responsible.

Then, porn can be viewed as a neutral activity, rather than a negative activity. His engaging in a neutral activity of his own choosing is in no way your responsibility.

Further, it can be viewed as a positive activity, akin to steady state cardio (I do not believe it would meet the criteria of interval training, which is the best form of cardio, but given the elevated heart rate over a period of more than 10 minutes, it would qualify as steady state cardio). Then, to the extent that you cause his engaging in such a beneficial activity (cause in his mind), you should be rewarded.

So either he leaves you alone or he rewards you - definitely no guilt on your end.

It is a completely mental, cognitive exercise that takes a few paragraphs of writing all in all.

[LovelaceF]

Originally Posted by riotgrrrl

First of all, on your list of options. Where does it say that his needs are OTT? He's a sex addict. You're not talking about a normal, run of the mill relationship here and shouldn't be treated that way.

And yes, he was considerate to her the day before. But was this one day? And wasn't the consideration good points completely undone when he told her that he needed her for 2 weeks for sex every night? And you choice of words 'Take pity on him', for what? For wanting a night off sex? From no longer agreeing to be his sex object and bowing down to the not inconsiderable pressure he puts on her? I am again, left flabbergasted by what you think, and most certainly by your choice of words.

I do not see how you can fail to understand that this is no way to treat his wife. IF she was a sex addict too, then marriage made in heaven. But, as she's already pointed out, she isn't and she's been treated less than well by the very man who is supposed to love, support and treat her well.

And yes, I agree, she has choices to make. BUT SO DOES THE HUSBAND.

Wow.

I don't think that sexuality is so simplistic as to be boiled down to a normal/deviant dichotomy. I think there are shades of normalcy. There are so many people who have one kind of particular sexual interest, or another, that I am hesitant to write them off as immediate addicts.

Without prying too much into OP's life, I would venture to guess that her husband, years ago, had her doing something that is very common, if not completely "normal", but that she didn't feel comfortable doing.

She has drawn her boundary lines about it, and he's stopped asking, from what I can tell. However, she hasn't forgiven him for this episode that happened ~9 years ago. Apparently, this is all coming up again due to recent sessions with a T, I assume. That's good, and means that she's working through this issue for herself.

Additionally, her H. is now trying to stop his porn habit. I don't know why he's doing that, but it may or may not be something he's trying to do FOR HER. Clearly he enjoys this habit of his, so there must be some external motivation for him to stop. He's not here to answer for himself, though, so there is little point in my further speculation.

Thirdly, the man wants daily sex. I don't think that is unusual at all. Lots of men want daily sex. Even some women want daily sex. I don't think that his asking for daily sex for two weeks is "undue pressure". It would be undue pressure if she said no, and he persisted anyway.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

I don't think that sexuality is so simplistic as to be boiled down to a normal/deviant dichotomy. I think there are shades of normalcy. There are so many people who have one kind of particular sexual interest, or another, that I am hesitant to write them off as immediate addicts.

Yes. I also see no connection between deviancy and addiction. Deviancy must have something to do with being on the tail ends on the bell curve. Addiction must have something to do with having behaviors that ruin your life yet you cannot stop or curtail or modify them. I am not sure that those are the exact meanings of the terms, but I am just trying to apply some common sense and general knowledge of English.

If those meanings are indeed in the ballpark, then deviancy and addiction are orthogonal.

Say, asexuality may be classified as deviancy because it is positioned on one of the tail ends of the bell curve, yet it does not ruin one's life.

On the other hand, you can engage in missionary position sex with one and the same member of the opposite sex all day long missing your work to the point of getting fired, and that would be classified as an addiction.

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

I don't think that sexuality is so simplistic as to be boiled down to a normal/deviant dichotomy. I think there are shades of normalcy. There are so many people who have one kind of particular sexual interest, or another, that I am hesitant to write them off as immediate addicts.

Without prying too much into OP's life, I would venture to guess that her husband, years ago, had her doing something that is very common, if not completely "normal", but that she didn't feel comfortable doing.

She has drawn her boundary lines about it, and he's stopped asking, from what I can tell. However, she hasn't forgiven him for this episode that happened ~9 years ago. Apparently, this is all coming up again due to recent sessions with a T, I assume. That's good, and means that she's working through this issue for herself.

Additionally, her H. is now trying to stop his porn habit. I don't know why he's doing that, but it may or may not be something he's trying to do FOR HER. Clearly he enjoys this habit of his, so there must be some external motivation for him to stop. He's not here to answer for himself, though, so there is little point in my further speculation.

Thirdly, the man wants daily sex. I don't think that is unusual at all. Lots of men want daily sex. Even some women want daily sex. I don't think that his asking for daily sex for two weeks is "undue pressure". It would be undue pressure if she said no, and he persisted anyway.

Your first point. Sure, normal for one person may not be normal for another. However, the poster wrote that he is a sex addict. She also wrote about how he "Early in marriage he ordered, cajoled, wheedled, connived and manipulated me into doing some deviant sexual things that shamed me terribly.". Those are not words I daresay, chosen lightly, and I would have thought (esp with the mention of a sex club) that this isn't just a slight variation of the missionary position! And as she is married to the man, I guess she knows him better than you or I which is why she wrote that powerful statement.

She may have drawn boundary lines, but by her sheer frustration when he asks to go to a sex club, to me spells that he's not listening to her wishes, let alone the pressure put on her to have sex every day while he weans himself off porn. That's bad enough, but really, a red flag is waving, not just because that is emotional blackmail. How will he know exactly how many nights it takes to wean a person off a habit? I bet most people would like to know, but I fear it would take as long as it takes. I would presume that even he will not know until after the event. He is, to me, just trying to get a good thing for himself here and I wonder after two weeks, that he declares himself 'not quite cured yet...'.

And yes, some people want sex every day. And some people do not. It should be that they work it out, not use emotions to make someone do something they do not want to do. How do you decide what is undue pressure? Putting aside the fact that he's not listened to her during therapy etc and her wishes, I think that he is putting undue pressure on her, by using emotional blackmail with the 'if you have sex with me every day for two weeks then I may be able to stop porn'. To begin with he shouldn't even ask this. Then there is the fact as I mentioned before, he is a grown man and its up to him what he does with his life. I would just prefer it if he did not pressure his wife and listened to her.

[ShaggyChic_1201]

Originally Posted by adam_k

It sounds like he is objectifying you and I'm sure that kills your self esteem. I don't think people like feeling like sex objects. Maybe it just comes across that way. I think two people need to be on the same page when it comes to sexual frequency.

I have mixed emotions about the subject. In the last couple of months before this fall out, I wanted sex everyday. I think I was over compensating for my lack of interest in the previous months. I also wanted to show her I though she was still pretty and that I still wanted her. It was a bit of selfishness as well. I generally enjoy sex. For me I like the closeness and intimacy it brings. To be connected deeply, the pleasure and give and take between two people. I felt fulfilled being able to satisfy her, and I enjoyed when I finshed. Honestly, it is the only time in my life that I experience bliss. The moments afterwards, when you are laying there looking at each other and you know you are loved. I would take that feeling everyday if I could. That is just my 2 cents.

Adam,
I completely agree with what you've said. His verbal description of sex is demeaning to me and his attitude is objectifying. It doesn't hurt my self esteem as much as make me want to pull away since the sex lacks all intimacy. I wouldn't be surprised if he left a hundred bucks on the nightstand and walked out, so to speak. There is no connection between us and I'm really not paying the slightest bit of attention during the act itself. I don't know what he's feeling during these times and perhaps he also experiences bliss and thinks it's satisfying.

I appreciate your 2 cents!
Thanks,
Bub

[ShaggyChic_1201]

Originally Posted by Leed

She does not have to participate in ANYTHING for him to do that if she does't want to, and it sounds like she doesn't. He's being totally selfish, and he's an adult. He can wean himself off by himself, like a big boy! It's time for him to "man up" and stop using her for his own pleasure or his own "use."

Lee, you hit the nail on the head. This is the crux of my issue. I believe this other women deserve a man who treats her with love, honor and respect, but not me. My T was "appalled" when I said, in answer to the question of why I am staying ... "I'm not as miserable any more"

Sigh. I've come so far and still have so far to go! Thanks Lee!

[ShaggyChic_1201]

Originally Posted by LovelaceF

Her choice is to either:

1) Listen to her husband's needs and try to help.
2) Listen to her husband's needs but not help.
3) Ignore her husband's needs and focus on her own needs.
4) Ask her husband to listen to her needs instead.
5) Try to work something out that would benefit both husband and wife.

It seems like she's leaning toward option #3, which is not a choice that will benefit the marriage.

Lovelace,
I largely disagreed with your first post, but this one got me thinking a bit deeper. I like your synopsis of the choices. I don't necessarily think I'm in the #3 category, but am probably somewhere between 1 & 2. The rub of it is, my heart is not in it. I've not cut him off from sex. I will give him the 2 weeks every day if he thinks that is what is needed, but it's akin to brushing my teeth. I do it without any thought because it needs to get done.

Is that truly helping him? IDK. Maybe yes if he's not as obsessed with porn. But there's no way I could keep up that every day pace, so then would I be responsible for him if he lapsed? Would he not just say it's my fault - he was ok as long as ....

Thanks for helping me think this though!

[adam_k]

Have you told or talked to him about what you find pleasurable? Obviously his behavior is a big turn off to you, but during the act, have you told him what you like? For my relationship, she liked foreplay. Touching, kissing and such before. She also enjoyed oral and finger play. I don't know you or what you like and I'm not asking you to share, but does he know what you like?

I think sex should be about intimacy and connection between two people. There should be give and take in my opinion. I know I wouldn't feel very good, if my partner just wanted a sex organ and didn't make me part of it.

Being a husband, I can tell you we are dense and it takes us forever to learn. My only suggestion is to try and talk to him and tell him the way he treats you makes you not want sex. He should do X instead of Y because that makes you want to have sex with him. When he does Y it is a turnoff and you don't want to have sex.

For example, you can say I don't want to have sex when you grope me. I would rather have you hug me and kiss me on the neck or whisper sweet things in my ear. (or whatever it is that turn you on). That is my though.

For me my wife hates when I ask for sex. She would rather me tell her we are having sex now. Neither one of those worked out for us. I want to know she wants it, and I feel like a jerk if I say lets go have sex because I want to. I settles on hugging and kissing her on the neck, and then I rub the small of her back. She finds that pleasurable, it is a sensitive part of her body. Then if she doesn't push me away or say no, hands wander and things happen. You have to find a way to communicate that works for both of you.