[reagan]

I am new to this forum. I'm posting because my wife is driving me crazy. It has finally got to the point where I have insisted that we go to counseling. I met with a psychiatrist last week to describe my situation at home. She listened and even agreed that some of what I was describing sounded like abusive behavior. She called it "crazy making behavior". Mostly though, I talked. She listened, then suggested that I come back with my wife so she could meet with both of us. My wife was initially reluctant to go but when she realized that it was a near ultimatum, she agreed. We have an appointment next week.

While waiting for our appointment, I am posting here to get other opinions on her behavior. I am curious if others think it abusive or if I'm just being too sensitive. I'll try to described the things that are bothering me, and i would appreciate opinions.

1) My wife constantly criticizes me. She doesn't use derogatory terms or call me stupid, but she will say that things I like are stupid. Mostly she just makes makes me feel stupid, like nothing I do is ever good enough. Things like when I'm helping make diner or washing dishes, she'll tell me I'm doing it wrong or corrects me in a condescending tone. Things like, I'm using the wrong pot or pan, or the wrong size tupperware. Or I'm using the wrong dish brush to clean with or using too much water. Over the course of an evening, I'll get at least 10 corrections or criticisms. She does not offer her corrections/criticisms in a loving way, but more in a matter of fact "your wrong" kind of way with a subtle condescending tone.

2) My wife is bossy. She's always telling me what to do. Things like telling me to let the dogs outside when she's right next to the door and I'm on the other side of the room. Or if I'm helping her cook, she'll tell me 2 or 3 things to do, then before I'm done with the first, she gets upset with me that I haven't already done the 2nd or 3rd thing yet. Or if she ask me to stir something, I'll start to stir it, them she'll just come over and take the spoon from me and start stirring it herself as if I'm not doing it correctly.

3) Ever since we got married, she insist that I put eye cream, face cream and hand lotion on every night and morning after washing my face. If she doesn't see me do it, she ask if I put my face stuff on and even ask me if I'm lying if she doesn't believe me. I hate putting all this crap on all the time. If it were just one lotion or cream it wouldn't be so bad, but I have to use all the products she gets for me in the correct order or she gets mad. I am not a metro sexual. I am a blue collar type guy. I don't like feeling like I'm putting makeup on. I do it just to avoid the lectures and scorn that I will get if I don't, but I hate doing it.

4) She's very picky about what she (and I) eat. She is obsessive about eating healthy and she decides what we eat. If I eat something she doesn't like, I get a lecture about it, or at the very least a dissaproving look. If I offer to cook diner, she'll want to know what I'm planning to cook and I usually have to go through 2 or 3 suggestions before she'll finally just get frustrated and say she'll take care of diner and then complain about how she is the one who has to do all the meal planning. Even if my suggestions are things that she has said she likes before. Similarly, she complains about having to go grocery shopping. When I have offered to go to the grocery store, she'll say that she still has to make a grocery list and that's just as much as of a burden.

5) She screams at me over trivial things. For example, a while back, I started a load of laundry shortly before we were going to leave the house. I made sure I had enough time for it to be done before I had to leave, but when she saw that I had started it she got mad at me. she told me I shouldn't have started it before I left. When I told her that I had enough time she started screaming at me telling me I was wrong and that I shouldn't have started a load of laundry before checking with her.

Another example; Recently on a Saturday morning, we both left the house to run errands. While I was out, I stopped at starbucks for a cup of coffee. When we both got home, we were putting away groceries and she started making a pot of coffee (i did not notice that she was doing this). When she saw my coffee cup in the recycling bin, she got mad at me for not telling her I had already had coffee. She said I should have told her before she started making a new pot because it's wasteful. When I told her I didn't know she was making a pot of coffee, she started screaming at me saying "you just sat there and watched me make a pot of coffee".

This type of screaming occurs about once every week or two.

6) She was married before. After her divorce, she changed her name back to her maiden name on everything but her passport. From before we were married, we talked about needing to get that changed so we could travel. A month or two after we got married, one of my best friends announced that he was getting married. He was my college roommate and lives in another country now, so in order for us to go, she would have to get her passport renewed with her new name. Every time I asked about it she would get mad/defensive and say she didn't have the correct documentation for a name change and didn't have time to get it done. Every time I asked about it, she'd get mad and say either that I was accusing her of lying about what documentation she needed to get her name changed or that I was accusing her of just choosing not to do anything about it. I even went to the passport office to see if she would be able to travel on her current passport. When I told her about that she got mad at me and said I was arrogant and condescending to suggest that she travel with a document that still had her old married name on it. As the wedding got closer, and I accepted that now she really didn't have time to get it fixed, I asked her if she would be upset if I went by myself. She was very upset. She said that it was my intention to go alone all along and that going alone was more important to me than going with my wife and that I was acting selfishly for wanting to go without regard for my wife's feelings. Then she also said that I should go because I had made it clear that my friends were more important to me then my wife.

I did go by myself, and she let me know before, during and after the trip what a horrible person I was for it.

Overall, we don't go two weeks without her screaming at me about something. The criticisms and constant corrections are almost daily. I'm at my wit's end. I can barely even talk to her about anything going on in my life for fear of it escalating to an argument. I make it through the evenings by keeping it to small talk and going to bed early.

Am I crazy? Is this normal behavior or is it abusive?

I'm at the point where I don't know if I can take it anymore. At the same time I feel guilty that I can't seem to figure out how to maintain normal communications. I've tried telling her that these things upset me. I don't know what to do. I am glad she agreed to go to counseling but I don't know that I'm very optimistic that anything will come of it. She has already stated that she doesn't think our arguing is unusual. She doesn't think her behavior is unusual.

I do love and care about her and I know that if I left her it would hurt her badly, and I don't want to hurt her, but I don't know how to get her to change her behavior and her behavior is hurting me.

Here is what I would say to you.........

First - I am NOT going take all that you said as gospel. I am going to assume that it is very one-sided. So, without dismissing it - I want to ask you something.....

- Do you love her?
- What make you fall in love with her in the first place?

Answer those two questions. And then I think I could offer a FAIR opinion.

Also, I highly recommend that you AND your wife read "the five love languages" - together. Key word is read it TOGETHER. I think it could offer a lot of healing to your badly bruised relationship.

Best wishes to you both.

[Lauliza]

Her behavior sounds absolutely abnormal- and it seems like she is very, very angry. It may not be you she's angry at, but she's taking it out on you so there's something going on. Not saying it isn't true, but I agree with Useless Me in that this sounds a little too one sided so I'm glad she's going with you to see your psychiatrist. Hopefully she will open up but if not your psychiatrist will at least witness first hand (or maybe not) her behavior. Has she always been this way or is this new behavior? If it is new, when did it start?

[reagan]

I appreciate the position of not taking my side as "gospel". I have been struggling with that as well.

This started alomst right after we got married and has been progressive over that time. I went through several months of trying to figure out what I was doing to bring all of this on, but the more I tried to be what I thinks she wants me to be, the more the conflict.

Even now, after having friends and family say that they see the behavior in her as well, I am still having a hard time believing that this is happening and continue to wonder what I'm doing wrong.

To answer your questions;

1) I do feel like I still love her, but I also feel like there is far more hurt than love in our marriage and I don't know if I can continue to live like this. I also am adimant that we not bring a child into this marriage unless/until we improve our communication and resolve some of these issues. She wants us to be trying to get pregnant and when I expressed to her that I didn't think now was the time to be trying to have a baby, and that I thought we should be extremely careful to that end, she told me that was a reflection of my commitment to her and that I was being selfish.

2) It's actually not easy to say right now why I fell in love with her. I thought we had a lot in common, I thought we got along pretty well, I enjoyed being around her and I felt like she needed me.

[Trippin2.0]

Wow! Your wife sounds like an absolute joy to be around...

If I treated my bf that way, even occasionally,I'm sure he'd be lonnnng gone by now.

Frankly: You.deserve.a.medal!

I'm glad she's agreed to therapy, and I hope her efforts are sincere, because you really deserve to be treated like an equal, valued humanbeing instead of a subordinate emotional punchingbag.

Ps. Her perception is flawed, your relationship is imbalanced and her behaviour unnacceptable. Not healthy or normal and heading toward toxicity.

[Mid-Life-Larry]

I think your wife and my wife are sisters!!!!!

I'm willing to bet it is her upbringing, her parents (or guardians) taught her this. My wife's parents (especially her mom) was/is VERY VERY critical and intruding into EVERY aspect of her/our life. It is almost NSA-like creepy. Her mom is nosy, critical and insecure... I see it clear as day now, it took several years and therapy sessions to see it.... .... but, my wife doesn't see it and is VERY defensive of her parents...they can do NO wrong.... she takes their side in ANY and ALL planning/disagreements/ideas.
She probably didn't get much positive reinforcement growing up. And when she tried to 'grow up' and be her own person, she was kept down and made to feel inadequate therefore seeks their approval (STILL)..... -- at least that's what my shrink says.

Does this at all sound familiar? If not, look closer at the relationship with her parental figure... look for the criticisms and seeking acceptance. I bet it's there.

I know it's hard because we are living with the results. And I don't know how to fix it... as I'm still in the middle of it. BUT, I do feel better because now I know what is causing it. -- I just have to remember to tell myself, it's not me.. it's not me.. it's not me...

Good luck with your counselor brother!!

[nicoleflynn]

This is called Verbal abuse. I recommend the book which saved my life after 31 years of abuse: The Verbally Abusive Relationship by Patricia Evans. I think it should be required reading for everyone on the planet, and especially....therapists!! Abusers are excrucatingly insecure and need to control. She is very angry and taking out her aggression on you. Until or unless she sees that and does the work to change....she will remain the same. Another excellent resource is Boundaries by Townsend and Cloud.

When you hear abuse....walk away; disengage...the abuser expects you to continually explain and defend yourself. Don't......it never ends. you can say: If you CHOOSE to speak to me disrespectfully, we will not have this conversation.

She will most likely continue to argue, etc......walk away......at some point you might want to consider shock therapy....as in......I cannot continue to live with you if you CHOOSE to be abusive. Abuse is a CHOICE.

reagan - thanks for answering my questions. Assuming you are sincere on your response (and I have no reason to think you are not sincere). I think it is safe to say that not only has she quit on the relationship, but so have you.

I am NOT assigning "blame". I do not think that matters. And yes - I think she is being abusive to you. As much as I hate my own response - I think you need to leave her. Maybe not divorce right away. Maybe the shock of moving out might stimulate something.....

Good luck to BOTH of you.

[Lauliza]

You are very wise to not have children with this woman- I'd not be intimate at all so you can avoid that risk altogether. If she tells you you're selfish, remind her that you are not. Bringing children into an already troubled marriage is many times more selfish.

I hate to say this but I see leaving her as the only option. You are in charge of your own behavior - not your wife's. Unfortunately you cannot control her moods and irrational behavior and that is not your problem. You are being verbally and emotionally abused and no one deserves that. The most important thing to remember though, is the fact that she wants to have children and if you don't leave now you run the risk of her becoming pregnant. Once that happen everything changes and then this decision will have bigger consequences. Right now, you can leave, start over and cut ties fairly easily.

Good luck to you!

[Webgoji]

I'll throw in a couple of other things:

Emasculating
Controlling

Yeah, you both are going to need counseling and it sounds like you've got things going in the right direction.

[reagan]

Thank you for the replies.

Wife and I have had a few discussions on some of these issues. Mostly the yelling and her getting mad at me over relatively insignificant things. She doesn't deny that it happens, but so far the specific times we've discussed that I thought were over the top, she has said that for the most part, she wasn't even mad at me, just stressed out and she took it out on me. For example, the laundry issue I mentioned, she said she was stressed out about things she had to do that day, that she really wasn't even upset about the laundry. One of the times she got mad at me about what we should have for diner, she said it was that she had a bad day at work and took it out on me.

She doesn't deny that it happens, but says she didn't know how much it was hurting me. She says that her family always yelled and screamed at each other and never took it personally. I'm not sure what I think about this...I really don't see that in her family, at least not to the extreme that she shows me.

In either case, I don't know if her explanation makes it any better or not.

I guess where I am right now, I have two things I have come to realize.

1) I am not going to allow myself to be treated that way anymore. To do so will erode my own self esteem to the point that I won't like who I am any more.

2) I absolutely will not bring a child into a marriage where either partner isn't comfortable with the way they are being treated, and confident, and able to trust the way they should expect to be treated. To do that would make me a bad person.

In the short term though, I don't know how to go forward. I don't know if the right thing to do is to try to work through this with her or get the heck out.

On one hand, I feel guilty for letting it get this far before being more aggressive about fixing things, like I should have recognized that we need to be getting help earlier. Reflecting back though, I initially just tried to brush it off as newly wed stress, or denied to my self just how much it was hurtful to me. I think now, I realize that nothing I did deserved that level of rage. I don't talk to people I hate that way, even when I am mad at them. Even recognizing that now though, I still feel guilty for letting it go this far and feel a sense of responsibility to try to make things better if she shows a genuine effort and recognition of the effect her anger has on me. (she has acknowledged she has an anger issue).

On the other hand, I also feel ashamed of my self for allowing myself to be treated that way for as long as I have. Again, I know I suppressed it a lot, and that to some extent is on me, but I've gone from being hurt and anxious to more angry at her and ashamed at myself. I don't really know how to get past that...or if I should.

Part of me thinks that I have now seen a side of her that scares me, and that she's not going to be able to change, and part of me has the fear that if I let this go I could be giving up something I may never have again.

This is where I'm at after discussing only a few of the issues. I'm very stressed out. Hopefully meeting with the therapist will get this all out on the table and help me gain perspective.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by reagan

and I felt like she needed me.

Not great for a "partnership"? She could be controlling because she is anxious and her mother was the same way (I have problems with that :-) but I do not like that she does not seem to be trying to adjust her behavior or showing any worries that it is not behavior she feels good about?

She does not sound very mature, blaming you for what is not how she likes it. You are not in charge of doing things her way/for her, that's her job. There's no appreciation of your help, no dispassionate feeling about "laundry", hardly something to scream about? It sounds like her emotional thermostat is very broken and I would not want to live that way either, were I you. I would start being more assertive (as you have with insisting on counseling) and less trying to make-nice and do things her way; you can't "win" and figure out her responses in advance, they aren't rational and it does not sound like even she is in control of them?

You cannot let another adult treat you as you are allowing her to and keep your own emotional/mental health good. When she says something ugly, you have to let her know your boundaries don't stretch that far, if she does not talk in a normal tone of voice (no more screaming) you will not be able to stay and listen to what she may have to say and discuss it with her (and then, when she screams, you immediately announce you cannot interact with her right now and leave; it is the same as if someone is being ugly on the phone, you tell them respectfully you cannot talk with them right now and hang up). If she cannot adjust her behavior to live with you then, as you say, you cannot take it any more and you have to call it quits. She is supposed to be working as your life partner, not your mother or as if you were her enemy.

[Perna]

Originally Posted by reagan

On one hand, I feel guilty for letting it get this far before being more aggressive about fixing things, like I should have recognized that we need to be getting help earlier.

Aggression was never called for and her behavior is not your fault that you should feel guilty. You do not sound like you need help, you are trying to solve your communication problems the best you can. You have counselling now but that may fail too. You have to decide what is best for you if she will not choose to accept responsibility for her own words and actions.

Your wife sounds like a control freak with anger issues. It's good that she is aware of her anger issues. I hope that going to therapy will help the both of you deal with your issues. It's good that you realized that bringing a child into a situation like this would be a bad idea. Good luck with everything.

[Pandasia]

1. My husband is like this. Over the years I have come to realise he is probably a bit of a control freak. My husband likes and needs a routine. He gets our daughter up and off to school in the mornings (basically because I work late evening shifts and am usualy still asleep when they get up). On the odd occasion I’ve been down in the kitchen he can’t handle it and we usually end up shouting at each other.

2. Sounds like this is all taking place in the kitchen. I have heard it said many times that when someone is used to preparing all the meals, or say, there is dinner to cook for guests, the ‘cook’ does not like others coming into the kitchen to help out – because – ‘cook’ has it all in her head what to do and what needs doing. So when another comes along and offers help, sometimes can be more of a hindrance, and upsets the time-table for when food is ready to be served. It’s critical to be able to muti-task and do things in the right order in the kitchen so that food does not go cold. Eg frozen peas are cooked (2 mins), roast meat needs another 30 mins. Sorry, extreme example!

3. Do you have a skin condition that need creams? How long does your wife take over her skin care routine. You could point out that skin creams are very expensive and that you don’t need them – will save money. Should work!

4. Eating healthily is good, but you do need a burger every now and then. Has she got an eating disorder? Maybe she had bulimia or anorexia when she was younger. I was bulimic aged 17. And still have an eating disorder – I can’t eat a lot it makes me feel uncomfortable, physically, and mentally I hate myself afterwards, though I don’t make myself sick any more. It seems she could be scared of getting old. Also, regarding your wife - it’s that feeling of being out of control again

5. Anxiety that loading the washing machine will make you late for appointments/meetings. Getting mad with you because you had a coffee without telling her – especially if she likes to control what goes into your mouth.

6. Does sound completely unreasonable to me. She didn’t want to go, and didn’t want you to go either. I think a reasonable person would give a reasonable answer as to why they didn’t want their passport updated.
Your situation sounds similar to my marriage, though maybe more extreme. Basically, I know my husband had a very unsettled childhood and now has feeling of insecurity a lot of the time. I think this is why he likes routine and feels threatened when it gets interrupted.

Do you know anything about her upbringing or previous marriage? Do you know why her marriage ended in divorce. Do you think it could be for the same reasons that you are experiencing with her?

You are not crazy, but her behaviour is not normal. I’m not sure whether it’s abusive – it all depends how situations are handled. I think you have to try a different approach to the way you react, eg like my suggestion for 3?

I hope this makes sense and helps a bit. I apologise if some things said seem derogatory, it is not intended. I hope you are able to work something out with your counsellor. The major hurdle may be to get your wife to understand the way she is. I think she is very lucky to have you.

[x_BabyG_x]

Your wife sounds incredibly controlling, like she owns you in some way. X