[soccerdad]

Alright here we go

first a little background on me. I'm 35 and I'm a father of 3 girls - 16, 10, 8 - and I have been married for 11 years now (together longer). My marriage is not entirely satisfying to me though. My wife has an explosive temper and she is constantly blowing up at the smallest things (mostly between her and our teenage daughter) and it creates stress that I don't believe needs to be there. We really don't share any interests and we can't have any deep conversations because if we disagree she ends up getting angry with me because "I just can't see things from her point of view". One more thing is since we have gotten together she has put on nearly 100lbs. I know this should not matter but I believe that I need to take care of myself so she has something to proud of and I wish she felt the same. I realize that having children takes its toll but its been almost 9 years. She just doesn't seem to have any want for self improvement and that bleeds into our marriage in that she doesn't think it needs improving.

Despite all of this we remain together. I was a child of divorce and always told myself that I wouldn't do that to my children so I have just waited things out with the hope that our situation would improve. I have talked to her repeatedly about the issues in our relationship to no avail until almost 2 years ago. That is when I had an affair. Long story short I cheated with another woman and carried on a pseudo relationship for a few months. The other woman was aware I was married and had kids. We had very strong feelings for each other and were convinced we were going to be together.

My Wife found out and to keep it neat and tidy I broke it off with the other woman and my wife and I decided to work on the marriage. We went to counselling and got to the heart of the issues that I had been talking about and things got better. She was more sensitive to my feelings about her temper and even sought counselling for it. Things were looking up. For a while.

Recently things have begun to go downhill again and I find myself talking to that same other woman again. Now this other woman isn't a random person I met in a bar. It is someone I have known since she was 13. We were always close but she is 5 yrs my junior so we never got into a relationship. Other things happened but because of the age difference being together just wasn't an option at the time. I had no contact with her when I met my wife but sure enough, the morning of my wedding I was outside my moms house with my best man when she drove by and stopped. She asked why I was dressed up and I told her and the pain in her eyes was obvious. We have since talked about that and she told me that she always thought we would be together. To be honest I had those same thoughts but dismissed them. Since re-connecting we have re-discovered those feelings and found they burn hotter than we even knew.

To sum everything up here I am at a crossroads. I don't want to end up as that man who stayed for the kids but when the kids finally left ended up being miserable. I am not old by any means but I feel that if I keep working on my marriage I could wake up an old unhappy man but I am afraid that if I leave I could end up alone anyways. I am usually very strong and am the person people seem to trust when they need advice but right now I am scared and I don't know what to do.

[ididwhat?]

Wow. I saw your post yesterday, but was too overwhelmed with various thoughts to put anything coherent down in writing. I'm still a little stumped, but would like to somehow offer my opinion... that is when I can narrow it down without sounding like I'm judging you. I don't want to do that.
I will say this: Staying for the sake of the children is a mistake... or, at least, it was in my parents' case. I'm still trying to overcome the poor relationship example my folks modeled for me.
YOU are responsible for your own happiness... your wife hers, your mistress, hers. Personally, I think you ought to figure out what you want and get off the fence. It's not fair to anyone involved for you to stay with a partner you no longer love. It's also not fair to jump into a new relationship (albiet an "old" one) while still struggling in a current one. Not fair to you, either.
I realize I'm all over the map here... I just know that, personally, being lied to about love sucks. I hope you can figure out what is true for you, and follow thru with it. Wouldn't it be nice to look back on this situation in the future and know that you did everything possible to keep your integrity intact?

If you feel like venting, or brainstorming, or want to discuss this anymore with me... don't hesitate to shoot me a pm.

[waiting4]

Well said, ididwhat?.....I admit I was torn as to how to put exactly what you said. Mostly, soccerdad, you really do need to get off the fence without catching your integrity on the barbed wire. It's not an easy trick. But I think in the long run, it will be worth it.

[brainhi]

Is the "other woman" a wonderful escape? If you were raising kids together, paying bills together...seeing things that annoy you and so on. Maybe things will work with your wife, maybe not....but leaving for the other woman?...Not sure you are in reality about it.

I was the other woman with a man whose marriage was over..they stayed together for the kids and other financial demands. I understood. We had an amazing time together intellectually and physically...around 5 yrs. He knew more about me than anyone I have ever let into my life.

When he was finally able to divorce - he wanted to have other experiences. I knew that was possible ..but it was extremely painful. No regrets..I learned so much from my experiences with this man

I'm just saying..things could work with the other lady but make sure you are in reality regarding a relationship with the other woman if your marriage ends.

[healingme4me]

I agree, about getting off the fence. I also agree about being in reality, if it's leaving to be with the other woman or if the marriage is just, well, over. .

I hear you about being a child of divorce and not wanting to take that plunge. Been there, resolved that. In an 'I will only leave, when I can no longer stay,' mental work through. My leaving was not for another,,it was because, I could no longer stay married, to him. Didn't date, for three years, post divorce.

Each action, has it's own consequences. Are your children being modeled, a healthy marriage, despite your affair? Did she, your wife, make a commitment to change? Was there, truly compatibility, upon proposal? Taking a good look back, on how you came to marriage, you may well find out, whether marriage was the correct choice, to begin with.

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[Phoenix1985]

My Mum stayed in a bad marriage for the sake of us kids until we left home as soon as we finished high school. And I hated that she stayed for us. From my point of view, two parents separated but happy is better than two parents together and constantly fighting and miserable. Sorry if I was too blunt.

[kipper-bang]

Hi Soccerdad,

At the moment you are sitting on the fence and holding the lives of the two women and your 3 girls, in your hands. You have to make an informed decision and soon. First put the mistress to one side and talk to your wife. Tell her you are thinking of leaving as things are not any better between you. Try counselling again if she agrees and see how it goes, but do not see this other woman again until you sort out your marriage once and for all.

You will have to make financial arrangements for your wife and children and give up the marital home. Can you afford this? Can you afford to run two homes?

If you do decide to leave your wife do it because you no longer love her. Not because you love someone else. Then when single you can start again with the new lady. Will she be happy living with you while you support another household. Will she be happy forgoing children of her own, a nice house, holidays, new clothes etc, because you are having to keep your first family?

You have a great deal of talking to do with your wife, solicitors and then your girls, before you leave for a new life.

Its a hard decision and you must always remember your girls will be the ones who suffer, whatever your choice.

[BonnieG2010]

You know, Soccerdad, you can't keep a marriage going on good intentions of not putting your children into a divorce.
Changing habits is a long process, could it be that you both stopped counseling too early or that just maybe you have to go back to it? I'd say it's the most reasonable thing to do now.
Your commitment to your marriage is admirable and I guess you owe it to your daughters to remain in it or step away from it with a clear conscience that you have done all that's possible and have no regrets whatsoever.

I know this is going to sound a bit harsh, but putting another person in between gives you the wrong idea that the other relationship is all love and tenderness, but that relationship does not have to face all everyday problems (including a teenage girl) that your marriage is facing.
Besides, feeling treated not too well by your wife and knowing that this other woman had always loved you and is somehow waiting for you, of course melts your heart out but your true feelings are also confused by this expectation and this feeling that you somehow wronged her before and you can do it right now.

I think the second woman needs to be put on hold now and I agree that if you ever step out of your marriage it would be better to live alone first, and do not step out of it because of another person.

I would go back to what your wife says that you don't understand her. Well, I guess that if i was rising 3 kids, with all the problems connected and my husband would speak a different language, not really understanding what I am going thru, I admit it could drive me nuts.
Could it be that she is yelling out of desperation of seeing that your mutual feelings are not what they used to be and that her life is very trying?

Even if your marriage comes to an end you need to have a good relationship with your wife for the children's sake so you need to find ways to have a good communication with your wife, whatever comes out of it.

If food is the most reassuring, safe and best thing in you'sr wife life now, would you still judge her for her weight?

[brainhi]

OK Soccer Dad...if you wanted honesty...we gave it to you.

It is very hard to be in a marriage that is not very happy and you are unsure what to do. You are trying to figure things out!!!! Glad to see these efforts...some do not reach out for help.

Just remember - if you try and set the other lady aside....you will probably crave her more because you cannot have it. Just be aware of that.

I wish you the best as you go through a very difficult situation!!!

[Perna]

Originally Posted by soccerdad

I don't want to end up as that man who stayed for the kids but when the kids finally left ended up being miserable. I am not old by any means but I feel that if I keep working on my marriage I could wake up an old unhappy man but I am afraid that if I leave I could end up alone anyways.

My husband has 3 sons. We have been married 25 years this September. I went to work for/with my husband and four months later he sat me down after work (I thought he was going to fire me :-) and told me he had feelings for me. He was not the first married boss who had hit on me but was the first honest and mature man I respected who had.

What you want is important but there is a larger element to this too; how mature you are and what sort of man you are/wish to become and what sort of women your wife and girlfriend are. I "dated"/lived with my husband for five years while he was working on getting a divorce (his wife was not helpful, called social services in the beginning asking them to "make" him come back to her) and saw up front and personally how he treated his wife, his mother, my mother and myself. He "passed" on all levels. His wife and I are friends now, she will be driving here from out of town next weekend for our annual Mother's Day barbecue. His sons and I are friends. All of us went on vacation together last summer. His grandchildren are my grandchildren.

It is not primarily about whether you think you will/will not be lonely in your old age -- what you want -- but about what sort of man you want to be/grow into being as you grow older. Only you can decide/know that. It could be that neither of these women are a good partner for you. Someone wanting to be with you, looking "hurt" on your marriage day is not necessarily a good way to judge a potential partner? I have the feeling you married your children's mother just because she wanted that or you thought you "should", etc. Commitment takes more than just feelings and while other people's feelings are good information about that person, we should not be making our life decisions based on other people's feelings but on our own.

My husband married his first wife because she was pregnant with their first child, he was graduating college, had gotten a job, and, overall, thought it was what he should do "next" (graduate, get a job, get married, have children, etc.). He arranged it all, they were married in the Catholic Church though she was not Catholic (and he has said if he could have done it over again he would have done that differently). When she got pregnant, my husband's first wife quit her job, just assuming my husband would marry her though he had not asked yet. My husband went and talked to her parents, his parents, his priest, etc. and everyone counseled that he did not "have" to marry her and probably should not, it was not a good basis on which to start a marriage. Almost 20 years later, what happened?

There is no shame in things not working out, in learning and growing as one ages. But the trick is, one wants to learn and grow, not just "feel" while one is living and continue to act on one's wants or feelings or ideas of what one "should" do. Obviously my husband, a married man with 3 children "should not" have taken up with me, another woman (nor I, with him). However, my husband now had a better perspective, was a mature, older man, and knew who he was and what he wanted and was better able to relate to the people in his life, as himself (instead of he-who-should-do-X).

[Maria116]

Originally Posted by Perna

It is not primarily about whether you think you will/will not be lonely in your old age -- what you want -- but about what sort of man you want to be/grow into being as you grow older.

I was going to say that. There is no insurance against loneliness at any stage in life. I had a relative who lost her entire family (husband and children) at about 40, survived by miracle and lived alone in a basement apartment until the age of 97. Thankfully there was a distant relative who cared for her in the last years.

[soccerdad]

Well there has been a lot of things said on here to make me think. About myself and my relationships. I'll admit the use of the term mistress jolted me a little.

A little update for anyone interested. There were a few inciting incidents this weekend. Nothing huge but added together they added up to enough that I had to let her know how I feel. I did not say anything about the other woman as I want to keep this about us. I told her that I don't want to end up a miserable old man married to a woman who resents him for whatever reason. I expressed my anger and frustration about her temper and my lack of space. It got quite heated and feelings were hurt but it came to an alright end and we hugged and agreed to work on it. I have heard this many times before from her so I am not too optimistic.

Not 12 hours later we were sitting in the living room with no kids in the house. She asked me if I just wanted to sit in today and relax because I seemed tired. I told her that would be nice and then she responded with the Female "Fine then". When I asked her what I did wrong she said "well I wanted to go for a walk but I guess that I'll just have to go out and do that by myself".

She didn't say she wanted to go out for a walk or even give me the chance to say "oh okay, a walk would be nice". She just jumped at me and got angry immediately. I realize that it was not even a day removed from our conversation but I couldn't believe it. Needless to say overall it was not a pleasant weekend.

I don't know what is going to happen between us but I have begun the process of separating our finances so that if it does go south at least it will be a quick thing. If that makes me a bad guy then so be it but I don't know how much more I can take.

And just so everyone knows, my "mistress" and I have spoken at length about what would happen if I did leave my wife and we both have no illusions. We both think that it would be a bad idea to be together immediately after on many levels. Should the unthinkable happen I will concentrate on centering myself and creating a good environment for my kids and when I decided to date I would make sure to get out and date and not jump into another long term relationship.

God I wish there was a manual for this.

[hannabee]

Sorry to say, but the manual was the book from which your wedding vows were taken. Were ya listening? You have three children who will now be affected by your midlife excursion and you are going to change who they will become because you weren't getting any sex and your wife was over-weight...sheesh. Why'd you have three kids?? Wasn't she over weight after the first one? Oh she was still trying to please you at that point I suppose. So now you are going to totally disregard your wife and daughters futures so you can get laid by an old flame.....that is terrible of you, you should be ashamed of yourself.
You need to do everything you can to save your marriage and your family. You need to stop blaming your wife for everything and take a good long look in the mirror. You need to end the affair and commit to never contacting her again. (You don't say much about her...is there another marriage being destroyed and more kid's lives being ruined??)
I'm not going to be popular for this response and I don't care. You need to GROW UP and stop thinking with your d**k.....you ARE going to be alone when you are old if you stay on this path.

[punkybrewster6k]

Getting up, putting on a smile and going for a walk with her would have gone a long way with making for an enjoyable weekend. The two of you could have reconnected simply by walking together instead of being consumed by eachothers comments.....

punky

[brainhi]

Soccerdad...not sure how long you both have been working on changing the relationship...but it takes a while to change behavior.

If you were seeing a counselor together & you all expressed what happened with "the walk" that counselor may have said to your wife...he cannot read your mind - I believe she is as frustrated as you are and her reactions have to do with fear.

If you are done..ok...but do not keep score of how many times she is going to act in ways that you cannot tolerate. Resentment is so built up...IMO you guys cannot do this by yourselves - there is a reason she is acting like she is...is it worth figuring that out...with the help of a professional????...If she does not want to get help....
then make a decision. But even if you do get help...it's going to take awhile to change things.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by soccerdad

I told her that I don't want to end up a miserable old man married to a woman who resents him for whatever reason. I expressed my anger and frustration about her temper and my lack of space.

Not 12 hours later we were sitting in the living room with no kids in the house. She asked me if I just wanted to sit in today and relax because I seemed tired. I told her that would be nice and then she responded with the Female "Fine then". When I asked her what I did wrong she said "well I wanted to go for a walk but I guess that I'll just have to go out and do that by myself".

She didn't say she wanted to go out for a walk or even give me the chance to say "oh okay, a walk would be nice". She just jumped at me and got angry immediately. I realize that it was not even a day removed from our conversation but I couldn't believe it. Needless to say overall it was not a pleasant weekend.
.

I realize that changes don't happen overnight. Not all women, say 'fine then', fyi. It's more a line of having expectations, from an indirect passive styled line of question. Instead of voicing her needs/wants directly towards you, she had an expectation in the back of her mind, and then exploded upon not getting the answer that she wanted.

I can see how living like that, through the years, leads to a dysfunctional relationship.

It could be gender based, I suppose, as women are ingrained to learn to not be 'aggressive', which tends to be socially synonymous with assertive. Assertiveness is a direct approach. Granted, sometimes, to lead up to conversations, a little less direct is necessary. But this is an example of something she'd need to address within herself.

So long, as you aren't using your 'friend' as a crutch(in back of your mind, subconsciously not going to address this, because you know there's someone else in the wings type of crutch), then yeah, keep trying, if you feel it's worth it.

Did you express to your wife, during this, or slightly after that, that when she states it's fine, then gets upset because you didn't give her the answer she wanted, that it leaves you feeling resentful because you felt caught in a catch 22 for a verbal disagreement. And with such catch 22's it's difficult to feel that there's any future left for your relationship?

If things don't change, now, while the kids are still younger, per se, they won't be any different once the kids are all grown up and out of the home.

[soccerdad]

Originally Posted by hannabee

Sorry to say, but the manual was the book from which your wedding vows were taken. Were ya listening? You have three children who will now be affected by your midlife excursion and you are going to change who they will become because you weren't getting any sex and your wife was over-weight...sheesh. Why'd you have three kids?? Wasn't she over weight after the first one? Oh she was still trying to please you at that point I suppose. So now you are going to totally disregard your wife and daughters futures so you can get laid by an old flame.....that is terrible of you, you should be ashamed of yourself.
You need to do everything you can to save your marriage and your family. You need to stop blaming your wife for everything and take a good long look in the mirror. You need to end the affair and commit to never contacting her again. (You don't say much about her...is there another marriage being destroyed and more kid's lives being ruined??)
I'm not going to be popular for this response and I don't care. You need to GROW UP and stop thinking with your d**k.....you ARE going to be alone when you are old if you stay on this path.

All due respect but the ultra conservative views expressed here are what lead to unhappy marriages. I am not thinking with my "****" as you put it. The sex my wife and I have is great. There is absolutely no problem there. The problems occur out of the bedroom and that is where I need help deciding what is right. The assumptions you make are quite telling. I want to be able to have long intimate conversations, feel excited to have alone time together and to just be generally happy to be with someone. I don't have that right now. As for my kids, they will be affected by either decision I make and either one is not going to affect them more negatively than the other. If I stay with my wife and just become a sad dis-engaged person how is that better than separating and being a happy engaged father?

Not all the worlds answers are found in a bible and not all people who cheat do it because they are terrible people. I get that because I am a man it looks worse but there isn't really much I can do about that is there.

[soccerdad]

Originally Posted by brainhi

Soccerdad...not sure how long you both have been working on changing the relationship...but it takes a while to change behavior.

If you were seeing a counselor together & you all expressed what happened with "the walk" that counselor may have said to your wife...he cannot read your mind - I believe she is as frustrated as you are and her reactions have to do with fear.

If you are done..ok...but do not keep score of how many times she is going to act in ways that you cannot tolerate. Resentment is so built up...IMO you guys cannot do this by yourselves - there is a reason she is acting like she is...is it worth figuring that out...with the help of a professional????...If she does not want to get help....
then make a decision. But even if you do get help...it's going to take awhile to change things.

I'm not keeping score but I know that deep down inside I want to come home and have everything be alright and have my marriage be great. Everytime she says that we can make things better and something regresses back to where it was it hurts all over again. I genuinely believe that I can be happy with her for the rest of my life if some things change. I love her and I did marry her after all but we both keep saying we will get there and we keep ending up at the same exact spot. How many chances am I supposed to give this?

Make a choice. Stay in the marriage, for whatever reason, but stop the cheating, or end the marriage and start the new relationship. Be faithful to whomever you choose but just choose one.

[brainhi]

Originally Posted by soccerdad

I'm not keeping score but I know that deep down inside I want to come home and have everything be alright and have my marriage be great. Everytime she says that we can make things better and something regresses back to where it was it hurts all over again. I genuinely believe that I can be happy with her for the rest of my life if some things change. I love her and I did marry her after all but we both keep saying we will get there and we keep ending up at the same exact spot. How many chances am I supposed to give this?

My x and I went through the exact same thing. I was the one getting help and wanted to work on changing the relationship. He did not care to get help - but wanted the relationship to change too. The resentment built up so high - spent a lot of time "hoping" things would get better and remembering the way things were in order to hold on. It did not work...But we did not have children. I did step out of my marriage for comfort. Cheating was a symptom. I do not know how many chances it takes. IMO if you are ready to call it quits you will notice the things that bother you the most.

It's not easy making a decision -but it will be yours and then you will go on. I know you have a wife and children .... I do not believe people were meant to suffer constantly - it will only lead to other behaviors that may not be good for you or a marriage.

[Jolisse]

My parents had a horrible marriage, but my mother stayed "for the sake of the kids".
The fighting created chaos in our house and my brother and I suffered from it.
I would hear my parents fighting at 1 am and would go into panic mode. I would always put myself in the middle physically, to protect my mom. The fights were never physical, but I still felt the need to be in the middle.
Staying in a bad marriage affects everyone in the family, especially the children.
How many times can you try with your wife?
You have a chance at happiness and I say "grab it", you don't want to end up a bitter old man. Your wife is not going to change, she will always revert back to her old self.
You have a right to be happy, remember we only go around once!
This is only my opinion from past experiences. I divorced my first husband and found happiness with my current husband. I thank God everyday, I made the decision to leave husband #1. He's now on his third wife, some people just can't change.

[BonnieG2010]

Originally Posted by soccerdad

I'm not keeping score but I know that deep down inside I want to come home and have everything be alright and have my marriage be great. Everytime she says that we can make things better and something regresses back to where it was it hurts all over again. I genuinely believe that I can be happy with her for the rest of my life if some things change. I love her and I did marry her after all but we both keep saying we will get there and we keep ending up at the same exact spot. How many chances am I supposed to give this?

The point is that you don't get home and find everything alright by miracle. We usually must work our own miracles.
Brainhi said about counseling, you didn't even answer to that.
You are not obliged, of course.
If you say you've had enough, no one can add anything.
But listening from your internet words it doesn't really feel like you've tried everything and maybe this could be a regret, in time.

You keep telling that she behaved badly. But if the both of you did not work to understand what went wrong, how could things possibly be different?

It is just too easy to only blame her.
If things went wrong responsibility is shared.
How did you contribute to your marriage going wrong?
Please don't take my words too personally. I don't want to blame anyone. But it's really just too easy to say that it is all her fault.

[soccerdad]

Originally Posted by BonnieG2010

The point is that you don't get home and find everything alright by miracle. We usually must work our own miracles.
Brainhi said about counseling, you didn't even answer to that.
You are not obliged, of course.
If you say you've had enough, no one can add anything.
But listening from your internet words it doesn't really feel like you've tried everything and maybe this could be a regret, in time.

You keep telling that she behaved badly. But if the both of you did not work to understand what went wrong, how could things possibly be different?

It is just too easy to only blame her.
If things went wrong responsibility is shared.
How did you contribute to your marriage going wrong?
Please don't take my words too personally. I don't want to blame anyone. But it's really just too easy to say that it is all her fault.

We have tried counselling multiple times. I continually ask her what I can do to make things better and I try to follow her wishes as best I can (loving random texts, saying I love you, making time for "date nights" etc.) but she really doesn't follow up when I ask her to do things. You are right about one thing though. I have about exhausted the advice in this thread. Thank you everybody for your input. It has helped me see things from a different vantage point.

[ididwhat?]

Originally Posted by soccerdad

All due respect but the ultra conservative views expressed here are what lead to unhappy marriages. I am not thinking with my "****" as you put it. The sex my wife and I have is great. There is absolutely no problem there. The problems occur out of the bedroom and that is where I need help deciding what is right. The assumptions you make are quite telling. I want to be able to have long intimate conversations, feel excited to have alone time together and to just be generally happy to be with someone. I don't have that right now. As for my kids, they will be affected by either decision I make and either one is not going to affect them more negatively than the other. If I stay with my wife and just become a sad dis-engaged person how is that better than separating and being a happy engaged father?
Not all the worlds answers are found in a bible and not all people who cheat do it because they are terrible people. I get that because I am a man it looks worse but there isn't really much I can do about that is there.

You seem like a very sensible man, in many ways, if you ask me. I say, figure out what works for you, what you can live with (or without, as the case may be), what's the worse that could happen—lay that out for all the possibilities. Communicate. You owe her that... you owe yourself that, too. Whatever the outcome you'll want to look back w/o regrets over your integrity. Say what's on your mind... w/o blame, w/o shame. AND... listen. Listen w/o judgement, defensiveness or dismissal. Then listen to your heart.

That's what I'd do, anyway.

Originally Posted by soccerdad

We have tried counselling multiple times. I continually ask her what I can do to make things better and I try to follow her wishes as best I can (loving random texts, saying I love you, making time for "date nights" etc.) but she really doesn't follow up when I ask her to do things. You are right about one thing though. I have about exhausted the advice in this thread. Thank you everybody for your input. It has helped me see things from a different vantage point.

If it feels like you've exhausted all of your options and nothing gets better, then... maybe you've exhausted all of your options, except for the option to move on. Best to you.

[healingme4me]

Originally Posted by soccerdad

The sex my wife and I have is great. There is absolutely no problem there. The problems occur out of the bedroom and that is where I need help deciding what is right.

The assumptions you make are quite telling. I want to be able to have long intimate conversations, feel excited to have alone time together and to just be generally happy to be with someone. I don't have that right now.

I realize, you've recently mentioned, exhausting all advice.

I just wonder, in interests of fairness, does the other woman, know this aspect of your marriage?

It would be fair to her, no? To know this?

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