In love with someone else

I believe it's better for children to have divorced parents than parents who don't love each other. Just my 2¢

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Yes and hopefully the parents won't keep badmouthing each other to the kids for years and saying to them "you're just like your mother/father" or "don't be like your father/mother" - ah, the wonderful world of being the child of divorced parents. I had to listen to my father call my mother a lazy bum when I was already IN MY THIRTIES and they've been divorced since I was 4.

I love your quote about living and dying-namastewoman

Hi, soccerdad! I'm sorry to hear about the difficulties in your relationships. It sounds tough for everyone involved, and I empathize with what you must be going through. I can see you are trying.

Do you love yourself?

What are you doing to improve the marriage? I have read all the posts, but having this written out in one post would help me better understand.

Unfortunately for today's children, people seem to think it is better to divorce than YOU being unhappy. POOR YOU!!! YOU made the choice of the other parent, YOU made the choice to have children and YOU can now SUCK IT UP and be happy for those children. Happiness can be a choice you make every day, unless you have a mental illness, in which case I understand medications have come a long way.

If you choose to have THREE children with someone, you OWE it to that someone to stay and help raise them. He doesn't have to fight with her and he SAYS the sex is great, so what's the problem??? Midlife crisis is what I say and I think he needs to GET OVER IT and CHOOSE his wife and family and CHOOSE to be happy. It can be done, REALLY it can.

PS You also OWE it to those children to give them a Mommy and a Daddy who love and care for them, NOT to leave them wondering what was wrong with them, that their parents didn't love them. Abandonment issues are very difficult to deal with at any age.

No. It can't be done. Happiness can be faked but not created out of nothing. If I didn't care I wouldn't be there still. I don't badmouth my wife and I stay active in the relationship but it doesn't help. I understand many people can't get past the cheating part of it but realistically you don't need two parents to be happy. I was raised by a single mother and despite this situation I turned out quite well if I do say so myself.

I wonder if you would say that same thing to a woman who is being beaten by her husband? What if my wife wanted to leave because I have cheated? What if 2 people just decide its for the best? You can't paint every situation with the same brush. That's the very basis of racism and prejudice and apathy. You are welcome to your opinion of course but brow beating someone to your way of thinking is never helpful.

Well I have talked about her about my unhappiness and explained to her why I think I'm unhappy. Unfortunately I can't force change so if she is not willing there is nothing I can do. In terms of her behavior all I can do is tell her what upsets me and try to work through it with her.

For my part I have asked her what she needs from me and I have done my best to accommodate her. I am always there when she needs me, I listen to her when she needs a friend, I never raise my voice to her, I take a very active role in raising our children. Also I take it very seriously that I be someone she can be proud of in terms of job, health and attractiveness. I have tried to be everything she could want because I figured I wasn't doing enough for her and that was the reason she treated me poorly. I have recently come to the realization that I can't accept all the blame and that it is a 2 way street so I am waiting for her to meet me halfway (or at least a quarter way).

We have been to counselling, romantic vacations just the two of us, we participate in activities together (softball, gym etc.) and we try and spend time together but I just don't have those feelings anymore. I know that if there were no kids involved I would have left a while ago but there are so thats a moot point.

In case I have misrepresented my marriage, we do not fight in front of the children, we say I love you in front of them and we act like we still love each other. My oldest isn't stupid and she knows something is up but the 2 youngest are oblivious to the situation. If it were as the posts above say and the kids were being put in the middle then I would end it.

As for the other woman, we are very good friends and she knows all the ins and outs of my marriage. To her credit she talked me out of leaving 2 years ago and convinced me to give it a go. We both want to see each other happy and she doesn't want to see me throw away my marriage without at least trying to salvage it.

After reading your posts and the others input I must say that I do respect you for trying to 'save' the marriage, even if, in the back of your mind, it may seem unsalvagable.

I also agree (sort of) with the poster who suggested you should have (shoulda woulda coulda, I know) perked up and gone for a walk with your wife after her passive aggressive attempt to get attention from you--and sorry, that's how I would have read it. That might have worked, but to what end, really? It might have bitten off the head of anger, but another grows back very quickly--and passive/aggressive is a learned response...if it works, she may continue to do that. I agree that (even tho I know you said you've both done it) counselling would be the way to go as doing it alone is not offering objectivity, which is something she's going to have to have to retrain herself to be more upfront with what she needs as a woman and a wife to be happy, so she can enjoy the marriage again.

I was a little concerned when you said prior to that situation, both of you had a sit down (more or less) and you told her how you felt, what was making you unhappy etc. Good, that's fine. Did you ask her what she felt? Because it appears, that after your comments she may have felt attacked and then after thinking about it became resentful--and her response was to passively/aggressively catch you out. Just a thought.

What really concerns me at the moment, tho..was your comment above...I realize your eldest may think something 'is up'...but it's not like she suspects there is no santa clause. 'Thinking' something is wrong is no leverage to accepting the awfulness of KNOWING, something is wrong between two parents, who show a good face daily. You say you don't argue in front of them, but I find that hard to believe--I'm not accusing. But arguing does not have to involve words. Often a sidelong glance, a unsuspecting scowl, a sigh as you walk away or glistening eyes from held back tears, speak volumes. In fact, all of that screams, something is terrible...something is dangerous...something is about to destroy my world, to your children.

Children are better actors than adults give them credit for, which is why so many of us are so f**ked up now. Because the grown-ups had no clue how they were damaging us (if they even cared to know) because children can put up a better face of denial than parents can.

So my advice, for what it's worth....make your mind up as soon as you can, and then make sure your children are always in the loop of any decisions you and your wife make. BOTH of you need to provide a united, solid front, because if you DO decide to seperate, pending divorce, your kids will not only feel devastated by this decision, they will feel totally betrayed by the actions both you and your wife are commiting right now by pretending all is well in their fragile world.

I would save them that. And both of you the repercussions of hurting them that much.

Take care

i have been following this thread for some time now & admit this is one that really made me think deeply.

i am a firm believer in the institution of marriage & it is very rare that i advise anyone to get out/divorce. I see that your situation is not a good one and i doubt seriously that your marriage can be saved(unfortunately).

i am willing to wager 11 yrs ago at the young age of 24 it's a good bet you had no idea of the ramifications of marriage at that time(few people do!).
i'm going to try to start at the beginning here and go down the line,IMHO
several mistakes were made here and i will point them out strictly for reflective purposes( i'm not going to demonize you for any of your decisions..simply point them out where they have added to your dilemma)

I believe that few of us are emotionally mature enough to understand the gravity of the commitment of marriage at the age of 24 IMHO, this was your first error. some may disagree and that's fine..but the divorce rate in this country speaks for itself..i will leave it at that. you are older and wiser now and surely you will learn from this experience.

numbers two and three are the fact that the two of you don't share any interests, and you cannot have any deep conversations...i assume this was the case 11yrs ago as well..and you guys still got married. bad move.

It is also unfortunate that you guys cannot seem to agree to disagree, that creates a toxic environment for children to grow up in..not a good thing my friend by any stretch of the imagination.friendly and lively debate is good for a marriage, explosive blow ups finger pointing and name calling toxic, very toxic.

the fact that your wife put on 100 pounds is troubling to say the very least, i believe both partners owe it to themselves and to each other to keep themselves in reasonably good health(factors they can control), reasonably good appearance and good hygiene..a marriage is no excuse to just "lets yourself go" it's not good for yourself or your partner, nor is it fair to either.

the fact your wife does not want to improve is very troubling indeed..so i guess that puts us now at point #6 then. I can understand your dismay at the situation but i can assure you that cheating on your wife DEFINITELY won't make the situation improve, only worsen it and destroy what little of the relationship that is left..and the fact that she found out is the final nail in the coffin so to speak, in reality..your marriage is over..it is only a marriage on paper now.

i too am a child of divorce, my parents divorced when i was 16..it was devastating to me as a child..but i wish the had done it sooner, so i could adjust...so i could get ready for adulthood. i had no time to deal with it 16 divorce..bam 18 on my own in this big bad place we call the world

you need to be honest with your kids and prepare them for the inevitable,
fact is your marriage is toast..simple as that...i have little faith it can be revived. If my parents would have sat me down and explained to me and my brother what was happening and why, i would have been able to adjust to it much better, instead bam that's it one day my dad leaving packed all his things and he was gone..off to be with his new wife. no warning whatsoever from either of them..you don't drop a bomb on a young kid like that..but, they did.

as far as this other woman..i would take it slow if i were you, everything is golden now, but when the rigors of day to day life and responsibilities kick in..she may not be what you think she is. IMHO people are good at sending out their "representative" for the first 6 months or so..then all the sudden the real them shows up..leaving you thinking "hey this isn't what i signed on for!!"
i understand you have known her quite a while, but you have NEVER lived with her, you can never truly know what you are getting till you live with someone.

so to sum up
1) you need to get out of this marriage..it pains my heart to say this..but you need to get out.
2) you need to be honest with the kids and explain to them what's happening, no BS'ing and pretending everything is fine..i'm sure they are picking up on it anyways and they will appreciate you guys honesty.
3) WHATEVER you do DO NOT rush into another relationship, if you want to keep seeing this other woman i would advise you to do so sparingly, don't set yourself up for failure again.
4) be civil about the divorce process, the last thing the kids need is flame wars between the parents..even if the wife is explosive.take the high road, your kids will respect you for it.

so that's where i'm at with this & that's my advice..sometimes it's better to part ways, i'm not a fan of having to give you this advice..really i'm not, i believe when you get married you are supposed to stay married..but your situation is just too far gone and you cannot hope to do it all by yourself, now of course you wife is not here to defend herself so all i have to go on is what you say..so i'm sure in reality you do share some of the blame my friend..i do not believe you are an angel in all of this. but from where i am sitting, unfortunately this is a union that CANNOT be saved and prolonging the inevitable will only hurt the kids even more, spare them the pain my parents did not spare me..please do... they deserve it.

i get the sense that you're being a bit passive in waiting for your wife to change and address her issues. honestly, i doubt this will work as problems don't go away unless you do something about them and have the necessary motivation to change. i don't know how many sessions of marriage counseling you did but i think you're better off insisting that you and your wife go back to counseling on a weekly basis for as long as it takes to resolve the problems. also, if the counselor was no good find a better one. having said all that you seem to be waiting for your wife to change yet you haven't left your mistress. i'd bet money she's waiting for you to leave your mistress before she's going to make any changes. you mention all these ways you are trying to be supportive and love your wife and yet this is happening all while you are cheating on her. do you really not see how it doesn't work that way? either commit to working on your marriage and completely leave your mistress or leave your wife. halfway measures really aren't going to work. how would you feel if your wife was cheating but expecting you to change all the while she wasn't prepared to leave her lover?

Soccerdad expressed that he's not currently having an affair, he did have one in the past, and he has resumed talking to his old mistress, who is also an old friend.

He's not considering leaving his wife for another woman, he's considering leaving his wife because of his wife.

Soccerdad, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong

Back to your dillemma; if your wife isn't showing any real interest in repairing your marriage, then as much as I'm not a fan of divorce, I implore you to start a happy life all of your own.

I've seen toooo many people stick it out for their kids, and they fk up their kids anyway, because a fake marriage is no example of a healthy relationship. Also it sends the message that a bad marriage is better than no marriage...Besides kids aren't as stupid as many adults think. They pick up on things, even on the things they can't name...

I personally know atleast 3 couples who found out they're better friends than spouses. Their relationships improved post divorce and their kids were happy their parents were finally getting along, albeit seperately.

I think the thing that annoys me with all this, is that you come here giving personal information and basically slagging off your wife as some sort of excuse for being a second rate man that f*cks other women behind her back!

I think you should leave if you are not happy. You obviously don't make her happy as she wouldn't comfort eat an extra 100lbs worth and when she found out her husband was unfaithful and disrespectful to her and uncaring about how that would affect her children, she would have had the self esteem to boot you out and find someone better.

And I think people should stay mindful of where they are posting... Psych Central, a support site.

Please people if you find this thread triggering and can't be supportive of the OP then stick to the threads where you can behave in a PC approved manner. This is not the place to judge and attack people, cyberspace is full of those, but its definitly not in this corner.

That is all correct. Thank you for your advice and support.

Not a very fair post. I haven't slagged her off and I am not currently having an affair. I find it amusing that in the world we live in if a woman has an affair everybody wonders what her man isn't giving her. If a man does then he is automatically assumed to be an asshole. A man should be supportive if his wife gains weight but a man also should get off his lazy butt and stay in shape.

I come on here looking for advice and a sounding board but I get a lot of "suck it up and deal with it like a man". I want to save my marriage and a good part of the sentiment is quit whining. This is the overwhelming majority in society so is it any wonder that men cheat and/or leave? A mans job is to be a good husband and provider. A wife's job is what? Too make her husband happy? No that is to 1950's. If you look at the current idea of marriage basically a womans job is to be married. It is acceptable for a married woman to have single male friends, not work, gain weight, go on trips with their girlfriends etc etc. None of these are considered acceptable for men. I'm not saying it doesn't happen but If I were to gain 100lbs her friends would have no issue with telling me to stop being such a slob or to go out and get a job. Could you imagine what would happen if my buddies took that liberty with my wife? Its a bit of a double standard isn't it.

Beyond all that when a relationship goes south it is generally public perception that its the mans fault. I accept blame in this situation but I refuse to accept more than my due. All these issues mentioned in my posts happened or began happening before my affair. The weight gain happened before as well so I'm thinking that it wasn't from low self-esteem from my affair.

We are working on our marriage and as an update she has lost 15lbs and has started doing her hair every day because she wants to be more "girly" for me (her words). She has also stopped yelling at the kids and is making a conscious effort to not interrupt me when we are talking and to listen to what I have to say. These are good first steps to me but I wonder if they are in time or if it is too late. I love her and I always will. I know that for a fact. the problem is I don't know what kind of love I have for her anymore.

I don't think it is the man's fault if a relationship is failing and I don't think it is alright for a women to sleep with someone else either. A relationship is an equal thing imo.

I didn't say her weight gain is from low self esteem from the affair, I said low self esteem from being in an unhappy relationship.

This is you again saying bad things about your wife!! No wonder she doesn't take care of herself! Did you make an effort to tell her she was beautiful and support her and compliment her, when she was losing weight. And do you listen to her?! considering you went off and f*cked someone else, you don't sound like you are the one putting all the work in to try and make that better!!

You come here saying that you have problems in your marriage and you don't want to brake up the family and asking advice on how to make things better in your marriage and make your wife happy, then you would get my full compassion. But not "I screwed someone else" no sorry ! that is not a good person!

What you have done is paint a picture of your wife, calling her over weight, angry, shouty to her children, not taking proper care of herself (and just then) that she talks too much and doesn't listen. And made out like you are the model father and husband and that it was her fault that you went and betrayed her! Buls*it mate!

you are not assumed to be an asshole, you are being one and everyone can see it!! maybe you should start looking at what a bad husband and father you have been for the sake of getting your d*ck wet and you are still putting it all on her and are on here looking for people to agree that you are the poor victim!

Shame on you!

I am being supportive. He needs to wake up to the damage he has done-no? and what about supporting her? she deserves that too imo. This is a place where we are meant to feel compassion and love? well I do, but for her as he hasn't shown that imo.

So you assume I am a bad father then? I am a good father but I don't really feel the need to defend that to you. My relationship with my daughter's is enough in that respect.

I cheated. I admit that. Hell I had an affair for an extended period of time. I take full responsibility for that. It was my decision and therefore it sits on my shoulders but it happened and I can't take it back. It does nobody any good for you to berate me for it aside from making yourself feel morally superior. It really shouldn't take the focus off the fact we are trying to fix the marriage.

As a matter of fact I do tell her she is beautiful and sexy. I tell her she is a good mom and a good person. I do support her in every way that I can and should. I try and spend good quality time with her and we are great friends.
And for the record, all the things I have mentioned before - which you called badmouthing - she admits she needs to change and so does the counselor that we have seen. I am proud of her for making these changes as I know it is not easy and you find fault in my praise for her.

I was kind of tipped of to where you said that you would have had compassion for me but then you read I cheated so nope. Things aren't always that black and white. I cheated yes. What about all the times she screamed at me until 4 am because of absolutely nothing? What about the many times she has told me to go **** myself in front of the kids, family members hell the youth soccer teams I coach. Unfortunately I am very aware of the fact that me cheating has given her a free pass for life on any behavior. As I said I cheated and for the most part people just assume that I am the worst one in the relationship.

I'm not perfect by any means but I try hard to listen to her and to be the man she wants/needs and it really hasn't gotten me anywhere. I could have left or even just jumped from affair to affair but I haven't. I am trying my best to fix it but like I have said many times before. Is it worth fixing or is it just going to break again. I don't want to be fixing my marriage in my 50's.

I knew you'd talked to your wife. Was asking about the other woman, specifically, with what,I'd clipped. If she's fully aware, then it's her choice to be there, as it is yours, seeking a confidante...

No trouble here. Like what you wrote about people with three kids...the spousal abuse, drives it home, in my case....you'd be amazed the judgment irl, even with battery

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If my Dad had gone and had an affair with another women when he had problems with my Mum, I wouldn't consider him a good father. Especially if my Mother was screaming at me and damaging my emotional security and upbringing and my Dad was off giving some other woman his love, when it was me that needed it! Not to mention the example set as to what is acceptable for a man to do and her standard being dropped as to what she will allow her future husband to do.

You are already back in contact with the affair. I say to have some self respect and actually end the relationship or work at it, depending on what you decide is best for you, but don't disrespect your family again by carelessly going down the same road again.

I am not taking the moral high ground, I have not been faithful to every one of my partners - but I grew up and realised I didn't want to be that person. I have also been hurt in that way myself and felt that they should of had the balls to leave and not try and have their cake and eat it too!

I am being moral advocate here as you seem to portray yourself as the good person here, but if you are such a wonderful husband, why is your wife so unhappy? and would you be so quick to paint her the victim (as you have appeared to do about you) if it was the other way round?

Good bad ugly right or wrong. Soccerdad seems to be figuring it out. It's one thing to stand by your principles and another to being a bully - I do not normally "name call" but that's the level of your discussion - Sky Blueblack - not sure how old you are...but if you make a mistake in judgement, I hope others are more tolerant of you than you are of them. He's here - he wants help figuring it out. His wife can search self help sites if she wants to.

Erm, this wasn't a one night stand. This was a full on affair and he has not said anything about what he has done wrong or that he is truly sorry. He carried on neglecting his family for another woman and now he is taking a kind of moral high ground by blaming it on her being a bad wife!

And getting back in touch with the affair is not figuring it out, it is doing the same thing to his family again!

We all make mistakes - true. And we all deserved to be understood and forgiven. But he isn't asking why he would do such a bad thing to the Mother of his children and showing any remorse. He isn't trying to work on things and wants nothing more to do with the affair. He isn't struggling to come to terms with the fact his relationship is over and hurting about that. He is talking about what a good husband he is and what a bad wife she is, blaming her for the affair (which he has no right to do) and complaining that she isn't trying hard enough again and how he is back in touch with the affair.

People always deserve to be forgiven for the mistakes that they make. But you also have to face what a ***** person you have been and feel sorry for that as that is also an important part of learning from those mistakes imo.

I am berating him as he is showing none of those things and thinks he is in the right here. I am sorry but if he was slapping her about, then everyone would be outraged at the way he is portraying the situation. What about the emotional beating that an affair causes? I have had both in my life and tbh, there wasn't a lot in it for me.

You are not him or his wife. We all honestly respond and many times respond and project our experiences onto others. I'm sorry for the things you went through. He can take or leave our opinions.

It is also about helping people and not just telling them that what they are doing is right!

I have not been a squeaky clean person in my life and if I had been wrapped in cotton wool and allowed to blame everyone else for the things I had done wrong, I would have not been able to put those things right in my life and be a happier, healthier person for that. He deserves to be happy and he deserves to be loved and I am not berating him for leaving. But his attitude towards the Mother of his children that, let's face it, he is about to leave, and the complete lack of remorse of care about any of that is appalling-full stop. He is not the great person he professes in his previous posts, anymore than she is this obese monster that he is making her out to be imo, and he should have some respect, considering he is still in touch with the affair, behind her back!

I am not saying that he doesn't deserve love and support, but he also deserves truth and a mirror held up as well. I have been brutal - yes, and this does touch a personal nerve- yes. But isn't it empathy that drives this place? and not just empathy for the person posting, but empathy for ALL people who have suffered (including his wife)

Where is his, is all I am trying to point out! because it isn't in any of his posts, they simply read as what a great and good person he is and what an awful one she is. That is not a loving or enlightened person imo. And placating that will not help.

I thank you for saying sorry for anything that I went through-it is kind of you xxx