[rgb11]

I learned my -- now ex -- boyfriend is bipolar a couple of weeks ago. Many of my friends (including him) responded as if I am completley stupid to have not figured this out on my own. Even he said 'you knew' -- as if it was my responsibility to figure it out on my own.

The truth is I did not know. I had suspicions. But I did not know, further I didn't know that HE knew. I didn't even know enough about bipolar at the time and how "real" of a condition it is to know the seriousness of it and that it applied to him. I have struggled with depression at times in my life so I am familiar with it. However I never thought of depression as a lifelong illness like bipolar is. I didn't know it was something one would need to be treated for forever. I didn't know the divorce rate was sky high and I didn't know how many of our issues could be related to his bipolar and not so much to me (as he'd have me beleive for so long).

In hindsight I do feel a bit naive -- but I do have codependent tendencies myself, I'm what you might call 'over functional' and I've been to CBT in the past, enough to know I have a tendency to be overly hard on myself at times but no major concerns, except I have a tendency to struggle to trust myself if a loved one is in conflict with me. I take things to heart, work on myself, try to improve. My compassion can get confused a bit to the point I might enable and in the last 10-15 years I've recongized it enough to be concerned in relationships where I might feel taken for granted. I'm a nice person and have learned to set boundaries, take care of myself before others and generally function well....except when things become murky and that is where I am. I'm trying to process this relationship with a bipolar man.

I need to know what was him, what was his illness, what was us, all this thinking even to the point of wondering if I'm bipolar too (as the arguements could get so out of control it's hard to know).

I broke things off, and not for the first time. This time I'm sticking to it, and frankly I doubt he wants me back now after the things I said -- yet I've been suprised before. We have broken up 3 or 4 times over 7 months and only the last two times did I know he was bipolar, and only about 3 weeks apart (one attempt at me to breakup, he was back by that night after I dropped off all his things) and finally the other day I angrily ended it after feeling so depleted, so hurt, so tired, so no longer myself. So tired of hope being crushed.

What frustrates me most is I didn't know he was bipolar. If I'd known I feel I could have been a better partner, could have mitigated damage to both of us (I think I'd have been more knowledgable about what to do...when to walk away, when to disengage and stop asking questions, and my expectations might have been different). As it was, I allowed myself to be pulled into the ups and downs and logically ask 'why' when there was no logical answer to find and no experience in my past to relate his behavior to other than -- maybe he's right, maybe I am mean, unreasonable, a nag, belittling, hurtful, etc. Perhaps he was right that I could have not said something or did something a certain way to set him off.

I noticed early on he had issues with honest adult communications. I attributed this to being male (an extreme case however...) and his excuse was his parents didn't communicate well so he never learned to. I noticed inconsistencies early on with lies about pot smoking (he didn't smoke, he used to, he quit, then started again). We would fight frequently because I'd ask what I Thought were reasonable questions about his frequency of use (once I got over the fact he'd lied to me about quitting). I thought his reactions were way to extreme.

I've dated pot smokers in the past. Usually, once the discomfort of the knowledge is out in the open, they are quick to let me know how much they are using as they want to be accepted. He changed his story constantly and would shut down and get angry any time I asked about it or called him on his inconsistencies. He knew I didn't want to be with a 'pothead' based on past experiences of my own. I told him it was even more important to me to be with someone who is honest and it was to his benefit to be who was with me, so we could decide if we were compatible and I told him I didn't understand why it was so hard for me to just tell me who he was (in hindsight I get this a bit more now even in writing it out...he didn't want to be left again as he's divorced and it was an issue for his wife...and he truly might not know who he is. I think he even said that but I could not accept the answer, it makes more sense now).

As he opened up (or rather I forced the answer after another extreme fight). I flat out asked him if he was bipolar and why he was on prozac. He told me the truth though not exactly with a smile on his face. He'd known most of his life and is 45, though they didn't know what to call it when he was a kid.

I was hurt I didn't know but also felt so much damage had already been done. I'm a sensitive person and was treating him as an equal and probably expected more of him than he's capable...and I didn't get the chance to supportive and understanding of his illness, and he could judge me for that -- but I was dating someone I didn't fully know. We had already talked about marriage and moving in together. I felt hurt he didn't have the opportunity to know me as me -- with the information about him I'd have had different reactions.

Even after I learned more (like pulling teeth) the ups and downs made more sense and I did more research. I thought of all the painful fights (he left me in another city on my birthday, I still dont know how he got home as I had the car -- the first major breakup though he said he just 'left' but I broke up with him...huh?)

I ended up getting us back together after that and he told me 'no more fighting' and made me believe I had a huge role in whether we fight or not. I apolgozied for hurting him yet made clear his actions were wrong. At any rate I tried to make things work. I loved him but knew something was off. I wanted to see if me being, gentler, kinder, more accepting of 'who he is' though I didn't know it included bipolar would make the relationship work.

I apologize for the length here. I'm 35 and devestated (well, I'm actually doing ok it's more like a slow death I'm now recovering from, the dissapointment, disillusion, etc.). I thought we would get married and obviously we had some very good times and high highs and were generally quite compatible in ways I hadn't been with someone else. Physically we were a great couple and for me that is unsual in that I don't tend to get into reltaionships quickly or with many men. I've been selective and choosy and have had long periods of being single.

I had my doubts sure, but I think I just did not know how to place this guy and now it all makes so much more sense. But not in time to save the relationship.

Mostly it was the conflict and escalation of the conflict and his poor ability to communicate with me -- he was easily set off and often had to physically leave me and to me this constant abandonment became too much. I have abandonment issues and I believe he started to capitalize on it, knowing how to hurt me. I also know he just doesn't know how to properly deal with conflict or perceived criticism and conflict though I never had intentions of hurting him. To me conversatoins and questions were normal parts of dating and getting to know someone.

For example, we'd be texting each other all lovey dovey and I would ask a question about his dog or plans and I'd start to know when he would 'think' I was being critical even though I wasn't....and it never went well. Yet I had a hard time stopping this because in my mind this is crucial to a relationship. You need to be able to discuss preferences, issues, compromises and yes, plans and maybe even make real dates without flying off the handle, running and hiding or giving the silent treatment.

I guess what I am looking for is support, knowledge and validation. That I am not so horrible as he'd have me believe. How to help him if he comes back without hurting him more (I said some hateful things during the breakup as it was too hard at that point to disassociate my own emotions from how he was acting toward me). I've questioned whether or not to contact his mother as she's close to him and might need to know I thought his behavior was escalating (panic attacks, up all night, fighting, refriended his ex girlfiend who seems to have similiar issues on facebook the same day we broke up and I'm sure he's already sleeping with her...another reason I'm sure I'm walking away this time...and spending too much money impulsivley). I know I can't help him now but is the responsible thing to let someone know who can?

I want to learn as much as possible. I'm joining a support group for women in the next couple of weeks where the theme is codependancy. I don't think I overly codependent but I used to be which is why this all scared me so much, I've had tendencies to detach from people because I'm so inclined to caretake and modify my own behavior for people like this. I want to learn what was him and what I can improve in myself and what I just need to write off as a bad experience and move on with my self esteem in tact.

I have learned a lot already and I am sympathetic. I think the hardest thing is feeling guilty for not being able to help someone like this, wanting to walk away and dealing with still loving someone anyway. It has to be hard to be bipolar but I have to feel sorry for myself too.

He is on meds but our last fight had to do with coming over to my house on a sleeping pill. I needed him that night as I was dealing with family issues and he was falling asleep mid sentence and acting weird, I'd have been fine if hed told me he needed to go to bed but he said that's not why he took it. He takes prozac, abilify and ambien. self medicates with weed (supposedly in the past and not as much now) he also drinks a whole lot of energy drinks. I don't know how recently he got on these particular meds.

We used to fight because he went to bed so early or would take sleeping pills without telling me. I just wanted to KNOW so I could do something else! I didn't need to go to bed. Throw in the fact I didn't even know he was bipolar and really needed sleep...what a recipe for conflict.

I feel guilty about our last fight because I know now he needs meds and sleep. It's the fact he didn't communicate to me what he was doing while I was hoping to speak with him after a long trip and seeing each other for the first time, and he was drinking an energy drink at the same time. He took the sleeping pill before even entering my house. I asked, couldn't you have waited an hour til after we'd spoken and caught up and then taken your ambien? He argued and said it didn't matter, doctors orders and he wasn't going to sleep anyway. Obviously he was acting odd and slurring his words or I'd not have noticed or demanded he tell me what he was on at the time.

He left again at 3 in the morning though I pleaded with him not to go. I let him sleep while I stayed on my balcony and reflected on my own troubles/trip home since he wasn't there to talk with me and I understood. He got up and yelled at me since I didn't come to bed with him, though I thought he was asleep and quite frankly I didn't want to as I was processing what had happened and my own troubles. Turns out he'd been awake the whole time just steaming mad. I pleaded with him not to leave me again and he did anyway. I broke up with him in the morning.

[cocoabeans]

One thing: you said you were upset he didn't tell him he had bipolar because you ended up treating him like an equal because of it. That's harsh! Maybe why he didn't tell you even, bipolar or not, the guy should be treated like an equal. Patronising him, letting him do what he wants with bipolar as an ultimate excuse for bad behavior and playing into his troubles with sympathy would only make things worse. That's disrespectful.

Second, and on the same note, guy is a mess. Taking his sleeping pills with energy drinks/no intention to sleep? He's just getting high. It isn't because he has bipolar and "needs to sleep" "doctors orders".

[rgb11]

I re read that comment and realized how it sounded. I meant that he did things I would not expect from a 45 year old man with a son, a responsible adult. There was nothing in my experience or understanding to rationalize what he was doing so I treated him accordingly, which could be harsh as I didn't understand his inconsistencies. It would be one thing if he was all bad, but he wasn't. So I did'nt know how to handle these inconsistencies and acted in ways I'm not totally proud of.

"equal" is the wrong word. But if I'd know he was bipolar there might have been an explanation for some of the inconsistencies I'd seen and I might have had a more measured reaction. I can see how I exacerbated things and helped them to escalate, because I was hurt. I might have been less hurt (but I don't know).

Anyway, I'm very curious to hear about opinions on the medical stuff too. I talked to my dad who was also picking up on the energy thing.

I also asked him if he was just abusing the ambien. Of course you can imagine the response I got.

[RobertDark]

There is a lot I could respond to in here, but you said you were looking for support so I won't dissect everything.

I'll just say that I am recently diagnosed with bipolar. I have been off meds since last August and I started a relationship 3 months after leaving my wife who I am still in the process of divorce with. This new relationship was/is the best thing that ever happened to me. We are compatible in every single area you can think off.

In the period I went off meds until I was diagnosed, I didn't know what I was. That meant about 7 months with this new woman where I didn't know what I was. She was the one who suggested to me that I was bipolar and that I get it looked into. I told others she thought that about me and they though that was nonsense. That's because I hid my bipolar and hid it well. No one saw it except this woman I loved.

Over the course of our time together (and we are still together, now that I am getting help and will likely be on meds as of next week) I went from manic to depressed a few times and when I was depressed I went out of my way to sabotage the relationship. I would be mean, ditch her, not call her back, fly off the handle at innocent things she asked, stuff like that. When I was manic or okay I had the capacity to make her feel more love then she even knew was in this world.

I am currently in therapy, as I said, and that's helped a ton. I think both meds and therapy (and the therapy can be once a month, once a year, whatever that person needs) is a need for most (please note that I know some are fine with different methods).

Now, your bf. Based on your side of things here is what I think.... He was talking about marriage? I did that too, very quickly. He has things there? He KNEW he was bipolar? That's the part that gets me. At some point, I really, truly believe it's the a BP's person duty to inform their partner they are bipolar before or while marriage/moving in is being talked about. I honestly think it's a total jerk move to lead you on and never tell you.

On top of that? He likes energy drinks and weed? Two things that mix horribly with BP and meds. The excessive caffeine can and probably will have a negative impact on his mood. Weed and alcohol (excessive) negate meds. I want to think that people who know they are BP and are not alcoholics/addicts would not be drinking or doing drugs because they would have been told countless times by med professionals how damaging the stuff is to any mind, especially a BP mind.

In there you kind of blamed yourself for things that you said, etc. I can't see how it's your fault. You were dealing with a drug user, bipolar mess who didn't even respect you enough to tell you he was BP so you knew what you were dealing with, EVEN THOUGH he thought it was cool to talk about marriage. For all you knew he was just an a**hole who was being mean to you for fun, why wouldn't you react the same way to him?

If you love him and want to make it work, I'd ask him to take his BP seriously and not expect you to guess at things.

That's just my own personal opinion, I may seem harsh on a BP person... even though I am a BP person. I just STRONGLY believe that if someone is BP they need to be open about it to their loved one, otherwise they can expect a ton of relationship struggles and they can expect to never get the respect and understanding they need from their partner. But that is what is deserved in the case of dishonesty.

Originally Posted by cocoabeans

One thing: you said you were upset he didn't tell him he had bipolar because you ended up treating him like an equal because of it. That's harsh! Maybe why he didn't tell you even, bipolar or not, the guy should be treated like an equal. Patronising him, letting him do what he wants with bipolar as an ultimate excuse for bad behavior and playing into his troubles with sympathy would only make things worse. That's disrespectful.

Second, and on the same note, guy is a mess. Taking his sleeping pills with energy drinks/no intention to sleep? He's just getting high. It isn't because he has bipolar and "needs to sleep" "doctors orders".

I am interested in your first point. Being BP, I know I have been a straight up a**hole to the woman I love and when she didn't know I was BP (nor did I) she thought that all I was doing was.... being a straight up a**hole. Can you really blame someone for responding to someone they think is doing nothing more than being mean the same way?

I guess the other person should always turn the other cheek, but that is easier said than done.

You're second point is spot on. Kinda what I wanted to say except you said it much more succinctly.

[cocoabeans]

To clarify, just because someone has bipolar doesn't mean you should take abuse or excuse they're behavior. Treat someone with bipolar as you'd treat anyone else. Perhaps the bipolar label helps one understand the cause of an issue but, understanding poor behavior and excusing it are very different things. We are equals. We don't need to be coddled and apologized for.

[RobertDark]

I see what you mean and I agree. Just because someone is BP doesn't mean we need to be treated like something other than a human being who is capable at living life. Thanks for clarifying.

I just don't fault the original poster for responding to what she assumed was disrespect with more disrespect.

[cocoabeans]

No, neither do I. What I mean, is I find it disrespectful that our OP expressed her responses should be different because of the bipolar. As someone who has that label and all, I'm a bit annoyed. I was also annoyed by the "do people with bipolar like...?" Post. As if my bipolar gives me my person and preferences, as if we're all the same. As if, simply by suffering some similar symptoms, I can tell the OP some secret insight into her boyfriend's behavior.

Yes, bipolar people share symptoms. What we don't share is personality, experience, preferences and coping. And is a support forum for people WITH bipolar really the place to go because your ex just happened to have bipolar to?

I think that's what is really bugging me here.

Call me out if I'm wrong. I'm used to being wrong

[rgb11]

1. If it is not the place to go, show me the door. I read the terms and conditions. It was moderated. We need support too (friends and family) and it is highly lacking. Since I do not have a condition, I don't have prozac, abilify and ambien and a cadre of human support (like he does) to get me through the breakup. I have myself and raw feelings. And typically, talking to others is a healthy way to get support which is what I'm trying to do. In my research -- I've found a lot of people posting on boards with similiar issues. In my haste last night to finally post I just picked one that seemed to have a high rating with knowledagble people.

2. If I should treat him the same as anyone then I would assume bipolar people here would also want to know and be able to handle what happened to me in a bipolar relationship and how it affected me. I've read in a lot of my research that the bipolar person in the relationship is most often unwaware of the strife they put their loved ones through (to the extent that they do) and I'd assume hearing the side of the story (and that being "normal" doesn't make one bullet proof) might help shed light on the 90% divorce rate (if it's even true). If bipolar is just a set of symptoms and personality preferences and coping is different -- that is mostly what I came here to learn. I don't know what people here know, all I know is what I went through and the things that I've read. I've never been in therapy for bipolar nor did I know much about how serious it is.

I realize the term 'as an equal' was offensive. I think when taken with the body of everything else I wrote, it probably makes sense and is obviously not meant to be patronising.

I'm glad to hear I should treat him the same as anyone else. That is validating to me because I did. What I really meant, is I'd have had a chance to take things less personally and use tools to keep conflict from escalating. Protect myself more, have fewer late days to work feeling horrible about myself.

[rgb11]

Originally Posted by RobertDark

There is a lot I could respond to in here, but you said you were looking for support so I won't dissect everything.

I'll just say that I am recently diagnosed with bipolar. I have been off meds since last August and I started a relationship 3 months after leaving my wife who I am still in the process of divorce with. This new relationship was/is the best thing that ever happened to me. We are compatible in every single area you can think off.

In the period I went off meds until I was diagnosed, I didn't know what I was. That meant about 7 months with this new woman where I didn't know what I was. She was the one who suggested to me that I was bipolar and that I get it looked into. I told others she thought that about me and they though that was nonsense. That's because I hid my bipolar and hid it well. No one saw it except this woman I loved.

Over the course of our time together (and we are still together, now that I am getting help and will likely be on meds as of next week) I went from manic to depressed a few times and when I was depressed I went out of my way to sabotage the relationship. I would be mean, ditch her, not call her back, fly off the handle at innocent things she asked, stuff like that. When I was manic or okay I had the capacity to make her feel more love then she even knew was in this world.

I am currently in therapy, as I said, and that's helped a ton. I think both meds and therapy (and the therapy can be once a month, once a year, whatever that person needs) is a need for most (please note that I know some are fine with different methods).

Now, your bf. Based on your side of things here is what I think.... He was talking about marriage? I did that too, very quickly. He has things there? He KNEW he was bipolar? That's the part that gets me. At some point, I really, truly believe it's the a BP's person duty to inform their partner they are bipolar before or while marriage/moving in is being talked about. I honestly think it's a total jerk move to lead you on and never tell you.

On top of that? He likes energy drinks and weed? Two things that mix horribly with BP and meds. The excessive caffeine can and probably will have a negative impact on his mood. Weed and alcohol (excessive) negate meds. I want to think that people who know they are BP and are not alcoholics/addicts would not be drinking or doing drugs because they would have been told countless times by med professionals how damaging the stuff is to any mind, especially a BP mind.

In there you kind of blamed yourself for things that you said, etc. I can't see how it's your fault. You were dealing with a drug user, bipolar mess who didn't even respect you enough to tell you he was BP so you knew what you were dealing with, EVEN THOUGH he thought it was cool to talk about marriage. For all you knew he was just an a**hole who was being mean to you for fun, why wouldn't you react the same way to him?

If you love him and want to make it work, I'd ask him to take his BP seriously and not expect you to guess at things.

That's just my own personal opinion, I may seem harsh on a BP person... even though I am a BP person. I just STRONGLY believe that if someone is BP they need to be open about it to their loved one, otherwise they can expect a ton of relationship struggles and they can expect to never get the respect and understanding they need from their partner. But that is what is deserved in the case of dishonesty.


I am interested in your first point. Being BP, I know I have been a straight up a**hole to the woman I love and when she didn't know I was BP (nor did I) she thought that all I was doing was.... being a straight up a**hole. Can you really blame someone for responding to someone they think is doing nothing more than being mean the same way?

I guess the other person should always turn the other cheek, but that is easier said than done.

You're second point is spot on. Kinda what I wanted to say except you said it much more succinctly.

Thanks Robert. This helps very much to hear from someone who has found out they are bipolar. That is the thing I often wonder -- does he "know" when he's been wrong? I think he does because he always recovers so quickly and wants me back. But I know he doesn't have an accurate memory of things he's done and said and he still seems to think I caused things ...at the same time admitting he's difficult to live with, irritable, etc.

But no -- he did not tell me until I confronted him 6 months into the relationship. He refused to even give me more information until I broke up with him and said I would not just go and have a happy fun time with him until we talked about what all of it means and how things might get better. We had a conversation....to me it was the first of many that would need to happen for him it seemed to be a gargantuan effort he was glad to have over so we could move on. All I really learned is he has high highs and low lows, he self medicated with weed til his father died and he got more help, he has been hospitalized but didn't tell me why or what for or what it was about, and he is afraid of being left again and says he is horrible to live with and he knows it.

My experienced made more sense and I promised not to use his diagnosis for me to 'always be right' and I expressed that in some ways it made him more interesting (he's creative, sensitive, etc.).

I expressed I was happy he was seeing a psychiatrist but asked if he'd been in therapy, he said not anymore. I expressed that I am going soon. I had already identified I needed support with this.

What has gotten me with him is his overwhelming selfishness. I've never been able to determine if that is part of bipolar or not -- and it seems more aimed at me than anyone else close to him (son, mother, dog, etc.) and I would love to talk to his ex who, from his responses seems to have dealt with a lot of the same stuff with him and finally left.

Robert I commend you for your attitude with your girlfriend. Sometimes it is just enough for the other person to admit they were wrong to treating you a certain way (so we don't feel crazy and over compensate) and commit to treatment.

I could have dealt with the conflict, the inconsistencies but I told him several times that abandonnment is a deal breaker and how much it hurt me. This last time I had to break up with him or he'd never stop it and think it was ok to come back the next day like nothing happened, and think he'd punished me for my bad behavior by leaving.

[cocoabeans]

Originally Posted by rgb11

1. If it is not the place to go, show me the door. I read the terms and conditions. It was moderated. We need support too (friends and family) and it is highly lacking. Since I do not have a condition, I don't have prozac, abilify and ambien and a cadre of human support (like he does) to get me through the breakup. I have myself and raw feelings. And typically, talking to others is a healthy way to get support which is what I'm trying to do. In my research -- I've found a lot of people posting on boards with similiar issues. In my haste last night to finally post I just picked one that seemed to have a high rating with knowledagble people.

2. If I should treat him the same as anyone then I would assume bipolar people here would also want to know and be able to handle what happened to me in a bipolar relationship and how it affected me. I've read in a lot of my research that the bipolar person in the relationship is most often unwaware of the strife they put their loved ones through (to the extent that they do) and I'd assume hearing the side of the story (and that being "normal" doesn't make one bullet proof) might help shed light on the 90% divorce rate (if it's even true). If bipolar is just a set of symptoms and personality preferences and coping is different -- that is mostly what I came here to learn. I don't know what people here know, all I know is what I went through and the things that I've read. I've never been in therapy for bipolar nor did I know much about how serious it is.

I realize the term 'as an equal' was offensive. I think when taken with the body of everything else I wrote, it probably makes sense and is obviously not meant to be patronising.

I'm glad to hear I should treat him the same as anyone else. That is validating to me because I did. What I really meant, is I'd have had a chance to take things less personally and use tools to keep conflict from escalating. Protect myself more, have fewer late days to work feeling horrible about myself.

To the bolded part, really? That's just anger coming out. I don't know what your boyfriend did but, please don't judge everyone with bipolar based on his behaviors. That's what I mean, you're in need of support but, your raw feelings and ignorance conflicts a little bit with a supportive environment for people who actually have the disorder doing the support thing for the experience of it. Especially considering, because I know I've deal with it, self stigma. If you want to learn, ask questions but, the snippy remarks because your angry with your ex? That shouldn't be acceptable.

To comment on your insight comments, during an episode bipolar can ruin perceptions. Consequences may not be considered or even understood.

I'm in a relationship for something like 8 years now with my husband who also has bipolar disorder. I know what it is like to be on the other side of the mood swing but, you know, mood swings are normal to me. The temper, off and on relationship and out of control arguments are not normal to me even during episodes. We've made it a habit to step back, think and be rational about things when they matter. Pick battles. If it isn't that big of a deal, let it slide.

But really, this guy didn't have enough respect to even tell you he had bipolar disorder and a 7 month on and off relationship? Put it in perspective. This isn't your life.

[rgb11]

I asked for the thread to be moved.

(Oh crap. Just wrote a whole big post and got auto logged out and now have to run out to p/u run-out-of meds. So, I'll attempt the gist of it...)

I relate very much to a lot of the behavior you wrote about. But my BF is not bipolar. Does he have Borderline Personality Disorder traits? You better believe it. (Btw, psych's opinion too, not just mine).

Really glad to hear you are working with boundary and codependency issues! Uber-necessary when you can say:
"My compassion can get confused a bit to the point I might enable..."
Again, I relate.
"I'm a nice person and have learned to set boundaries....except when things become murky and that is where I am."
Me too.
There's quite a bit in your post that shows some successfully planted self-doubt, like:
"...maybe he's right, maybe I am mean, unreasonable, a nag, belittling, hurtful, etc. Perhaps he was right that I could have not said something or did something a certain way to set him off."
Essentially suggesting you should walk on eggshells and feel responsible for his behavior. No.
(Have you ever read Stop Walking on Eggshells? It's a good one.)
Good to be aware that that's what it is, so that you can maintain your resolve.

(I have to run now, but quickly -- I understand your coming with questions, I've had the same inclination in trying to understand Borderline, because for the life of me, I can't understand it (understand intellectually, yes, relatibility, no), and don't think it means everyone is the same, and I didn't read that in your post either. )

[RobertDark]

I see where coco is coming from and agree with a lot of the points she's making. I just didn't get really upset about what coco points out because I assumed there was at least some anger behind the original post so I was happy to just let it in one eye and out the other.

I don't think rgb11's comment 'as an equal' was meant to be as bad as it may have come across. I just saw a situation that bears some similarity to what has happened with me so I offered what support I could.... Still, all that said, I do really see where coco is coming from.

Now, back to your man, rgb. Here is the thing. You are willing to work and learn to accept this. He, on the other hand, doesn't seem to care at all about how his BP is effecting the woman he 'loves'. He isn't in therapy but sounds like he needs it, he takes sleeping pills for fun, drinks energy drinks like it's going out of style and smokes weed. Not only does he not care about how you can better handle his BP, he doesn't even care how he handles it. Those things that he is or is not doing is a list of things to not do if you are BP.

From what I've gotten out of these posts, all I see is a guy who a mental illness that doesn't care in the slightest how it effects others around him. What point is there in staying with a man like that?

The people you will find in this forum, some of us got dealt a terrible hands in our card game (lets just go with this analogy). But we don't care, we are going to make the best of that hand and find a way to win this game regardless of how hard it gets. Your boyfriend? He's just throwing any old card out there and he doesn't care if he wins or not. There is no hope with someone like that, no amount of work you can do on yourself will change him. Just my opinion.

[rgb11]

Thank you. Yes I understand cocobeans as well. There was nothing but desperation in my attempt last night to start to help myself through this. I'd seen many posts on bipolar support sites for people like me and last night just did a search and this place came up, I didn't really think about the audience and figured this is common. But I don't feel hurt if they need to move my thread and I don't mean to be ignorant and mean ...and I don't feel angry. I really mean it. I feel he at least has some support and I don't have access to drugs when honestly I could use some too right now!

But, it's not something I want to focus on -- no argument here. if they want to move the thread fine with me. I can see how it's maybe not appropriate.

That said thanks for the insight from all of you. I need it. Robert, this validates me a bit. Maybe I did the best thing for him....including letting him know how much I just hate him right now and I told him he's not right for anyone unless he gets it together. said some other things that were harsh but nothing that wasn't true. I also made clear that I was disgusted and I knew he'd friended his ex girlfriend on facebook. This wouldn't be significant if I didn't already know he never loved her and she was cheating on her husband with him (why he dumped her) she posts pictures of her body all the time on facebook and seems to have had a crush on him since college. I feel he ran to her after this to keep feeling good about himself and continue with self destructive behaviors.

So maybe my angry words were the best medecine for him ...and me. It sounds like maybe he should know he is being irresponsible about his illness. His brother has it too and medicated with weed.

His mom seems to bail them out all their life. I'm not saying he's a bad person but I'm coming to terms with how much he should alraedy know and be responsible for his actions. I think he was still blaming his divorce on his wife. I don't know, I get different stories. At times he's humble and admitting he's failed at relationships, other times referring to me or her as a nag etc. etc.

I think this is what I needed to start to understand and validate. My best friend is a councelor and she told me I should not feel guilty for ending this and for even ending it badly with hateful words. I don't know where the illness ends and he begins.

From the sound of it, he's a selfish immature jerk...which is exactly what I told him. This after many attempts to relate, plead with him not to leave, etc.

[RobertDark]

For me, angry words didn't help me, they cut me down to the bone and sent me deeper in depression. Again, that's just me, I'm not going to tell you that you did or did not do the right thing.

I too, went back to my ex-wife (well, just wife I guess, it's not legally over) and I only recently found out why. More on that in a second.

I was loving life with my girlfriend and everything was good. Then depression would hit me after coming down from mania. When I am depressed, I hate myself. I think I am worthless and I isolate. On top of that I was a big jerk to my girlfriend. I pushed her away by being distant, mean, ditching her, toying with her emotions and all around just being bad to her. The first time I did this, she didn't understand. What happened to the amazing man in there? The second time she told me that I had problems that were more serious than I was allowing myself to see. She used the words bipolar. My mom had used that word on me in my early teens. My ex-wife when I first fell in love with her 9 years ago.

So I did this twice. I destroyed the best thing that happened to me twice because I didn't know what I was and I'd fall so deep into depression I couldn't understand why people would want to be with me. So I'd push them away. Both times I pushed my girlfriend away I went back to my ex wife and said "We are going to make it work." I left (my wife) her because she was a drug and alcohol abuser. She'd get downright nasty and mean to me when she was drunk. She was mentally abusive and manipulative when she wasn't drunk. So I had reason to leave.

But I went back to her in my depressed states. Why?

I only recently figured out that why. She fuels my depression. She makes me feel terrible about myself. So when I am depressed and hating myself it makes perfect sense to be with a woman who fuels what I am feeling at that time. Instead of the happiness I was getting from my girlfriend.

Sorry, that might not have a whole hell of a lot to do with you, but it sounds like there are some similarities with your situation and mine, so I am throwing that out there. The difference is that I want to be in a relationship and I want to work at making sure it's good for BOTH of us, not just myself. So I want to do what I can to manage this brain I've been given so her and I can have a great life together. Your boyfriend clearly has zero desire for that.

So will anger work? Maybe. Maybe now he'll look at himself and see what he's doing and want to be better. Or maybe he is depressed and that throws him deeper down. I am not at all saying it's your job to carry him out of depression, he's given you no reason to want to do that for him. I am just saying that try not to put to many adjectives on what you think of him. Saying things like you hate him and that he isn't good for anyone is just anger and that gets neither of you anywhere. Something like "You have been selfish, immature and you do not handle your BP well. I cannot be with you until you want to handle your BP so I am leaving"... something along those lines I think would be more constructive and get him to think. You saying "I Hate you" might just make him hate himself or make him lash out at you. As always, that's just my perspective.

[rgb11]

well, yes, at the point I said those things it was the end. it was done. I was too hurt and angry and depleted to filter it much. I can't say anything now. Contact is cut. He never responded anyway nor did I expect him to.

I might be willing to give it a chance if he wasn't talking to that girl. To me that breaks a bond and it makes me sick to my stomach what he can do and makes me feel all our love was a lie.

I don't think he ever cheated on me. But I also don't think he can be alone long enough to figure this stuff out.

I go back and forth between bipolar and immaturity. We have all had times in our lives where we had to grow up. Where we evolved and changed and it was painful. It's like he skipped those moments and has something to blame it on. I honestly thought he was better than this and feel the person I signed up for is totally different than the person I got to know.

I was afriad I may have depressed him or sent him down a hole. But when I saw he friended that girl I figured he must be handling this and will be okay, even if he hurts people int he process he probably isn't suicidal.

I had considered contacting his mom due to what seemed to be an escalation of fights, a panic attack, increased spending, etc.

Is that something I should consider? He lives close to his mom and I'm certain she knows his history better than I do. I decided against it after all but curious what you all think. This happened only a couple of days ago.

I deactivated my facebook account to avoid any further drama. I have no idea how he's doing and just imaginging having superficial fun with that other girl.

[rgb11]

I drink too. The really sad awful part is I drink more often around him. I'm trying to figure out why. I think it helps me since he's not that communicative. It helps me relax and understand him better.

[RobertDark]

In my case, going back to my ex was a result of horrible depression. Maybe it is for your guy too.

Should you call his mom? That's hard to say. If you have no desire to work on it and you don't think he's going to hurt himself I can't see any valid reason to contact his mom. If he wants to grow up and treat his BP like an adult, let him find it like an adult, not from his mom.

Originally Posted by rgb11

I drink too. The really sad awful part is I drink more often around him. I'm trying to figure out why. I think it helps me since he's not that communicative. It helps me relax and understand him better.

I'm going to be honest and tell you I don't buy that. If you have one or two here and there, fine. But to use alcohol to "understand him better" isn't any more mature than they way he's treated you. I'd believe you more if you said it helped you to cope with him better, not understand him better. Neither is the right thing regardless.

[rgb11]

yeah, cope is the better word. For one thing, he wants to go to bed way earlier than me. And I'm not even tired at 9:30 or whatever. Especially when I didn't know he was bipolar and really needed sleep, I felt I had to try to be on his schedule because that is just how he was wired (then I learned about the sleeping pills and was just confused, he first told me he was on sleeping pills just to get off pot).

He wasn't much of a talker. He'd be fine to watch tv and just have me there. It would have been fine to me if we'd known each other for years but he did this early into our dates, like 2nd date. I think drinking a bit made me feel more romance, right or wrong. Also helped me look past things which he was trying to convince me of.

[RobertDark]

Originally Posted by rgb11

(then I learned about the sleeping pills and was just confused, he first told me he was on sleeping pills just to get off pot).

The more you say about this guy, the worse he sounds and I think it's a blessing you can move on with your life.

"Hey, I want to replace this non-physical addition to weed with sleeping pills!"

I've never heard that as a valid way to stop smoking weed. That's so stupid it's almost funny.

He wasn't much of a talker. He'd be fine to watch tv and just have me there. It would have been fine to me if we'd known each other for years but he did this early into our dates, like 2nd date. I think drinking a bit made me feel more romance, right or wrong. Also helped me look past things which he was trying to convince me of.

Again, the more you say, the more I say run and don't look back. You're dealing with someone who doesn't care about you on any sort of level. Just based on what you've said.

[rgb11]

Originally Posted by RobertDark

The more you say about this guy, the worse he sounds and I think it's a blessing you can move on with your life.

"Hey, I want to replace this non-physical addition to weed with sleeping pills!"

I've never heard that as a valid way to stop smoking weed. That's so stupid it's almost funny.


Again, the more you say, the more I say run and don't look back. You're dealing with someone who doesn't care about you on any sort of level. Just based on what you've said.

I thought so too, any time I would express my feelings it would turn into a fight, He'd point out all the wonderful things hed done for me like buy flowers or make dinner,but it was always the same. That was his effort. Just recently (well right before the breakup) he had been watching my cat while I was out of town. Of course I'd have done the same for him, happily. But he acts like these efforts qualify him for saint hood. He has spent money on me and done other things. But I just get the feeling no woman has ever really challenged him on the level I do, and I defintiley did lower my standards for him (in some regards).

It's just that he always so vehemently denied things, got angry and pointed out how much effort he was making for me I chalked it up to maybe cultural differences (he's from california and I'm from the midwest...)

He always wanted to be with me. It's just like he wanted a replacement wife or mother though.

[Mom of Jr Sooner]

Not knowing your BF is bipolar isn't a surprise. If you have never been exposed to it, you don't know what to look for. My father is bipolar (according to him he isn't ... Which is the worst to try and treat) and I am all to familiar with the love/hate relationship it can create. Sounds like you are good to move on. I can't get another dad but you certainly deserve a great life companion and to find happiness. Leave that boy in the dust and move forward.

[Victoria'smom]

A lot of the behaviors you are mentioning makes me think that he's been depressed. Just the non-communicating nature he's been having and the ****ing around with meds. that really doesn't help. I feel you need to look into therapy. Your posts say that you choose ***es to treat you bad and you blame yourself for them being ***es. Yes BP's everything is more intense. I'm wondering why you are trying to learn as much as you can about it? Do you feel you'll go back? or are you calming your insecurities of the brake up? or are you worried about yourself?
I do feel him telling you about his MI was his decision and should not have affect how you respond. He was the same *** with or without bipolar.
Now the question of talking to his mom, have you ever approached her with the MI topic? Whether family is close or not that may be a closed topic.

now I'm sorry, I have to comment on some of the more negative things you said, but I'm not saying don't stick around.

I think the co-dependency group will probably help you a lot.

I feel you don't need to know a persons Dx to "know them" or "be a better partner"
Ability to communicate effectively has nothing to do with being bipolar unless the person is in a severe depressive or manic state.

If we choose to take medication it's not for major events like break ups. It's to keep our highs and lows in a range that we don't need consent hospitalization. Possibly attempt goals like working, driving, education and a family.

I feel most of us our painfully aware of the issues our moods cause our families. That's why suicide often looks like a solution when seriously depressed. Mentioning we have a 90% divorces rate feels like a cheap shot.

Agree it is best to just leave him and move forward.

But if I may...
a pet peeve...
Love/hate relationships are NOT a symptom or indicator of bipolar.

You will, however, find idealization/devaluation (ie. love/hate) in relationships among the symptoms of Borderline Personality Disorder: http://psychcentral.com/lib/2007/sym...lity-disorder/

(Some people have both.)

Thanks.

[rgb11]

Sorry about that. The statistic shocked me too. I didn't want to believe it and still don't. I was a little upset when I wrote that post. Mostly because, my post was moderated.... I really didn't know if this was the right place to post or not. The moderators can move it if need be and I won't be offended. I'm not trying to hurt anyone. Most of the research I have done, the sites have included a section for partners and family of BP. I figured this place was the same and just didn't realize where I was posting or how it could be taken. I was and have been in a bit of a crisis myself.

So far all of you have proven to be better communicators than he. I can't imagine him going to a message board and posting or reading all this kind of stuff, or taking the time to write a response. I'm posting on another board as well and hearing from people and it's very encouraging. I mean, not so much for my relationship. Just in general. I mean, it does sounds like his communication issues are seperate from bipolar. Though I have read a lot about anger and sensitivity that seems consistent with my experience of him.

It seems like he could have handled all of this a lot differently and we could have been successful. I am learning that bipolar is really not to blame for a lot of what I experienced with him and the age of 45 he should probably have a better handle on a lot of these things. My guess is that his mother has enabled him a bit to continue on more destructive paths.

He is not a bad person and has some great qualities. But he definitley made a mistake by not opening up to me sooner and telling lies (or half truths).

I am still in love with him which is why I entitled this 'processing the breakup' I don't know exactly what I want I just know that I need to move forward in the best way possible. With knowledge, understanding, forgiveness of both of us and a plan for what to do if he does contact me or how to improve myself for next time (sure I'm probably not as awful as he thought...it might take me awhile to truly believe this...more likely I'm a bit codependent so I'll move forward with the support group even if now it sounds like no fun at all).

Yes, I think I was looking for some validation that I did the right thing by leaving. In some way if all his behaviors could be explained by this illness I might feel bad that I didn't try harder or modify myself more. If he needs to be more accountable then it sounds like I did the right thing even if my delivery was less than perfect.

I don't really need that validation to move on with my life. But I know I'm too sad and lonley this weekend to do much of anything else anyway except try to process what just happened. The end came as a shock to me because we had planned for such a wonderful night. That was only 3 days ago. It would have been easier if my hopes hadn't kept getting crushed. And obviously I do fear there could be a repeat since it's happened before. I think I'm trying to really avoid it. Honestly, I'd even feel better ifwe just broke up for a longer time so I could know there was some space in there to make actual life improvements. I know that can't be done over night.

But knowing about the other girl makes it hard for me to enviosion any kind of reconcilliation no matter the love I feel.

I do know my life will be better without the drama. I do know I will miss him just the same, and hopefully I'll eventually find someone better for me but it's always an unknown. Love doesn't come around easily for all of us.