desparate for advice

I have been struggling for a long time now with loneliness. I haven't been on a date in over 2 years. I am a successful entrepreneur, highly intelligent, charismatic, and not bad looking, but I can't get a date?

I honestly don't know what to do as far as getting out and meeting people. I am 12 years sober, so I don't go to bars or clubs. I am an atheist, so I do not attend church or have any desire to. Those really are my only two options in my geographical location (deep south). All I have found through Meetup and Craigslist are bible study groups and wine tasting groups... and one group for nudists aged 50 and up. I have asked my sisters if they have any friends they could introduce me to, and they say they don't. I have watched people make connections through volunteer work, but I am somehow always left out.

I have been engaged twice; they both initially approached me, and they both started cheating on me soon after we were engaged. A few years ago, I was kicked out of the house I built for the woman I was engaged to so she could move the guy she was cheating on me with in. It was the man I knew as her ex husband, but it turned out they had been married the whole time. In fact, every committed relationship but one I have been in ended up with me getting cheated on. (The one who didn't cheat on me died as the result of a car wreck.)

The last woman I was involved with, when I explained my aspergers and the struggles I had been through to her, promised me she would not break it off with me without talking to me about whatever the issue was first (this is another thing that has happened to me a lot, being dumped out of the blue with no explanation as to why). Of course, she still ended up dumping me and refusing to tell me why.

About 18 months ago, I ran into an old friend I hadn't seen since high school. We talked for a while, she gave me her number, I called and we had a pleasant conversation. Then I drove through a dead zone and lost the call. After that, she did not answer or return another call I made or reply to the text message I sent. Not long after that, I asked a woman I knew through work out to lunch, and she agreed and even seemed excited about it... but she stood me up. Later I found out she decided to go back to her abusive ex rather than go to lunch with me.

I have lost track of the amount of money I've spent on dating sites, and yet I have failed to make a single connection in over two years... as in not even one reply to any message I've sent. There have even been times when I was not the one to make contact... when I replied to a message from someone else and still got no response.

Even my therapist told me (right before I fired her) that men with asperger's just aren't able to maintain relationships and that I needed to get used to the idea of being alone. But I can't get used to it. I won't get used to it. I decided recently that if I am still alone at 40 (in just over 2 years),

Possible trigger:

I will end my suffering one way or another.

But now I am wondering if I can hold on that long.

Wow, how long did you know the woman before she became your fiancee & you built her a house that she ended up keeping for her & her not ex husband but husband all along to move into?....what kind of intelligent successful entrepreneur would allow that to happen?

I ended up married to a guy who bragged about his intelligence but he didnt have a lick of common sense. I kept trying to deal with ALL the issues the whole 33 years....he honestly didnt get a word I was saying but would never admit he didnt understand. After 33 years of that & basically living separated in the same house the last 13 years of those 33 years, it wasnt worth even trying to talk about the issues so I finally just left when I had the money to get out.

He kept telling me that he couldnt change & that it was his personality. I had no idea what I had really been dealing with until my psychologists suggested possible aspergers with everything I told them about what I had been dealing wuth & until I finally experienced what REAL emitional connection with people is, I only senced it was a huge missing part of my marriage & my growing up years with my parents....the other huge thing was INABILITY to communicate. Im guessing but if you might have been better at communicating & less with unspoken assumptions you might not have ended up in some of the bad situations you have found yourself.

Honestly from personal experience, being alone these last 9 years is mych better than being alone in a bad relationship. I wouldnt trade my alone for ever going back to that life.

Maybe you shouldnt hang your happiness on a person but learn how to be happy from within. You can get used to anything you want....its A CHOICE.

Hi--I just read your post here. I am married and have two kids, but rather sadly, when I'm with my wife I feel incredibly alone. I never felt that with my other relationships. Often I think that if I were alone, I would be able to spend some time with my children and my friends and not be nervous she's going to start yelling at me. Maybe the goal should be to focus less on being "married" and focus more on having connections with people?

I think you should start by examining what you are doing or saying to women. It's fishy that so many women brush you off. Those odds just don't seem like a coincidence. You may be driving women away in some way that you are unaware of.

What your therapist said was awful. I'd have fired her, too.

I'm sorry for what happened You mentioned you've had Aspergers. Maybe tht could be one reason why you haven't been able to form long-lasting connections with other women. I know you've had a bad experience with a therapist, but maybe trying a new one that could actually help you learn how to communicate with other people could be useful.

I just wanted to say that people with Asperger may have high intellectual intelligence, but usually they have lower emotional intelligence than average. They have difficult times reading social cues and intentions. People must not confuse the two. So, I understand how one can be successful in their jobs but not so much in their personal life. I don't have an advice for you, though because I struggle in my personal life as well. However, we are all social animals, and we crave connections and intimacy. No doubt the social life is full of struggles, but loneliness is also a struggle in itself. In other words, choosing to be alone to avoid social problems isn't an ultimate solution. Maybe when you get older you decide to continue alone after experiencing life in its good and bad.

Do you have this problem with everyone, or just with women?

Hi there, sorry things have been so rough for you, with regards to relationships.
Firstly I just want to say I spent 6 years single throughout my mid 30's onward. And I am a great believer in these things coming to you when your not looking for them.

In the grand scale of things 24 months isn't that long, but I get when your looking for something it can feel like an age.
A couple of things, your obviously intelligent and articulate, driven and probably direct. But something your doing is pushing people (woman) away. It's always hard to see it from the inside but the general rule is, if you don't like what your catching, change the bait.

I am not for one moment sayingchange who you are, I am suggesting you ask a trust worthy friend to take a look at your game plan and histories and perhaps spot something you haven't.
I don't believe that people with aspergers are doomed to a solitary existence.
I have Avery good friend also with Aspergers, he is an absolute romantic, however he has a tendency to worship his women. Placing them on an impossibly high pedestal where they felt intimidated or doomed to faliur. So the relationship begins to fail before it's started, then when he realises they are imperfect his passion turns to depression.
He can also be very intense and forward with his motivations. Because he knows what he wants, often describing it in quite matter of fact terms and quite early on, but doesn't quite grasp that there is no standard format for a relationship. Because people are all so different and need more time to process things.

I am not inferring his issues are your issue, they are merely examples of what I am trying to describe.

You sound like you are , generous,practical and sincere and its a great shame you have had these experiences, but each one teaches us something to avoid in the future.

Please try not to put so much weight on finding someone, perhaps concentrate on getting involved in things you really enjoy. Wether it's sports, games,writing, larping.
You will always be at your best doing something you truly enjoy and that kind of confidence is the most attractive thing in the world.

A side note though, most women can smell desperation like a fart in a car. And it doesn't look good on anyone.

Take care and all the best for your future, don't give up hope, maybe just give up looking, just for a little while.

Take care.

Well you meet one person with aspergers you met one person with aspergers - it's unwise to generalise, I'm shocked a therapist did just that.

My cousin has aspergers and is happily married with a child. Yes it took him a while to find the right person, he got hurt quite a few times along the way (he is very trusting and often has been taken advantage of). He is however a loving, hardworking and loyal husband and father - he can be very focussed and he has focussed on being those things and does them well.

You sound like you are also trusting and that has been abused by others. Do you have friends or family who can be your wingman? Help you assess situations, give you feedback?

I do recommend finding things you love, like Erebos suggested - follow your bliss, you may well find you meet someone special along the way.

I'm not saying anything to be rude, rather this has been my experience...

I know someone who has Asperger's and even though I've known him for a number of years, its impossible to connect with him on an emotional level. Yes, I understand the saying that if you've met one person with Aspergers then you've met one person with Aspergers but in all honesty, this saying can be applied to any disorder out there, and it wouldn't be a disorder with common threads running throughout if there weren't commonalities amongst those with the disorder.

My friend, well, he doesn't understand how to be empathetic or how to emotionally care about me. He can show he cares in his own way, but it ultimately feels cold to me. Recently I hurt myself and he didn't care to ask me how I was doing, and didn't care that I was in pain. Simply put, no empathy.

I know I can't paint everyone with the same paintbrush, but given the emotional non-connected-ness that is indeed a common thread in Aspergers, I think this may indeed be part of the issue. You may feel some sort of connectedness with people but perhaps aren't able to show it, so the other person doesn't feel connected to you. And then things just fall apart.

Yes, the disorder stinks, and on the other side, I am feeling so incredibly blindsided by the whole thing....(My friend tried to hide his disorder, so instead of working with the disorder, I had "NT" expectations for him that he couldn't meet. Even now that I know the truth, its just too late. You don't hide something this major from someone for so long and then wonder why things go awry.)

This is just my experience, I'm not saying it applies to everyone with the disorder.

I have this deep fear that a male with Asperger's is incredibly off-putting to woman, at least in a romantic way.

I don't have data to back up my claim, as there seems ot be no research. But I do need to explain the lack of woman in my life. And the lack of romantic interest of those who have been part of my life.

And I guess I have nothing to complain about, since I myself would rather be alone than be with woman who have less desirable traits. And I might have some traits that make me least desirable.

And in a sense I can understand it. Apparently, my looks aren't enough to make woman around me notice and acknowledge me. So what about me is so special that females will start to fall in love with me the moment we first meet?

For a long time I didn't know why I would want to enter a game where normal people already often get bad results, when the game seems to be deliberately rigged against me.

So for a decade, I decided not to even try, partly knowing that me falling in love hurt me more than normal people by far.
There has been one woman who got it into her head to try to get me to change my mind. And it turned out she did all that without even being interested herself.

I have tried some dating site. I inherently find that something extremely boring. Talking to some AI or to the most perfect girl ever, if it is just text, it is the same. I think hard about my replies and type them out carefully. I could do those kinds of chats when I was 17, but I am 33 right now. It was so boring to me. It must be even worse to them. But the other side didn't seem to put in any effort.

I had this one conversation;

Me: "What are your passions?"
Her: "haha cats""
Me: "Why cats and not dogs?"
Her: "also"
Me: "So do they get along well?"
Her: "sure"

That is just one example. I almost get this feeling that to get someone to engage you have to randomly write stuff without any filter as if you have ADHD. Most people I am automatically matched with, they never send me a message. So I also stopped sending messages first.

And this is supposed to be fun to them, to date me. I can't imagine how some person one day will know how to talk to me, we meet, and she notices I am slightly odd, maybe not so good looking as she hoped, have a 14 year gap of nothingness in my life, possible Asperger's, I will stand out to her friends as odd/not a good catch, I have to explain she can't meet my friends because I don't really have any, and she can't meet my parents because they are so ****ed up.
And somehow, I also have to be into her, which is possibly even less likely.

And given all that, if something ever moves into an actual relationship, I have to confront this thing that in the face of most relationships definitely failing, I have to somehow deal with me possibly having Asperger's and thus not appearing to connect emotionally.

And I must say, more and more I am starting to think woman preferring 'bad men' over Asperger men isn't so strange. And then there's still normal proper men, with neither the bad of either.

Online dating seems pointless. I am considering getting professional pictures taken to become more interesting, as this seems so extremely shallow.

Woman I meet, to me it never seems to lead anywhere romantic. Usually we are collegues. With the few of them where I can see past their flaws and somehow see something develop, it never seems to me that I am the right person for them. I mean, there has to be something there before the one asks out the other on a date, and I don't know what that is and how it can ever be there. And I don't see what the point is, to impassionately date another person. The only reason I may consider it is to gain practice, because they are physically very attractive, to forget about the woman I am actually infatuated with, or out of shear desperation. I almost know for sure that if I ever end up on a date somehow, I will feel bad for her because I am using her to feel less insecure.

And to the once in a decade female I do fall in love with, the odds they like me back are zero.

As for hiding or not hiding an Asperger diagnosis. I don't have a diagnosis and I already feel romance is all about hiding your Asperger traits.

But maybe I don't have Asperers as I feel I have much much more empathy than average people. I just won't feel surprised when others would think I have less.

To the OP, I am sorry I don't have any advice.

I don't think Asperper's people don't have empathy. They might not respond appropriately as neurotypical people, but this doesn't mean they don't have empathy. However, I think it's true that men with Asperger's suffer romantically, because women value the emotional response by nature, which might not be found as they expect. But the question is then: what should they do? Describing them as cold and ostracizing them because of that obviously make them feel bad and doesn't help. Do they still deserve love and intimacy and physical affection as any other human being? or they are destined to be alone and they have to accept it as a fact?

Hi Richard,

Sorry you are struggling. We have spoke a great deal in chat over the last 2 years about these challenges. Have you given any more thought to relocating to a new area? I know this is far from an easy plan, but from my perspective is your best bet to find new friends and lovers. Good luck,

moogs

uh... where did I say anything about marriage being my focus? How does not wanting to be alone equal wanting to be married? As I am not even in a relationship right now, it would be silly to be considering marriage.
But, yes, I do struggle to form real connections with people overall. I do, however, have a small group of friends, and those friendships are very dear. But none of them have any answers for me beyond "you just haven't met the right one yet". The relationships thing does put a strain on my friendships, though... I have lost many friends over the years as they have paired off. It is an interesting phenomenon. As people get older and pair off, they tend to leave their single friends behind. We get invited around less and less, our invitations are brushed off, our phone calls, texts, and emails start going unanswered… until there is no more contact between us and our coupled friends other than occasionally bumping into one another in public and saying we should get together sometime only go back to leaving unanswered messages before giving up again.

Well, yes, but what? This is kinda the root of the problem, isn't it. It is something I have put a lot of thought and research into. The best I have been able to surmise is that I don't know how to flirt and don't recognize when someone is flirting with me. Many times I have found out later that someone was interested in me, but I never picked up on it. Case in point, last year I ran into a woman I was friends with years ago, we chatted a bit, I told her how my business was getting along, she told me she was getting married soon, etc. But when I asked why we stopped hanging out, I was shocked. She told me she had to move on, that she 'practically threw [her]self' at me, and I never even noticed. The thing is, I had actually been interested in her, but I never saw any indication that she might be interested in me, and I never made a pass at her because I did not want to damage our friendship.

So it's not just a matter of saying or doing the wrong thing(s); it's also a matter of not being able to read people and not knowing how to play the whole flirting 'game'. It's not like there is any way to learn this either. There are no classes or workshops that teach flirting, unless you count pick-up culture, and those guys are just a**holes.

I have been to a few therapists since then. Two of them wanted me to do CBT… which I'm sure has many benefits for some people, but it is rather ineffectual for ASD and basically amounts to teaching us to act less autistic. The other suggested religion, and when I explained to him I am an atheist, he said, "maybe that's the problem."

This, this, and this! Thank you. Yes this is something I find exasperating, this idea that being successful in business makes me "high-functioning" and I should therefore have no problems elsewhere. In fact, being successful takes a huge toll on me. I basically have to play a character in order to interact on the level necessary to drive my business ventures. Then I go home and can't even turn the lights on because I am so over-stimulated from the day's activities. Many times I end up rocking back and forth in the corner with my arms around my knees just focusing on breathing and not having a meltdown. Is it so much to ask to have someone in my life who I can relax around? Someone who understands and is okay with me being me? Someone I can interact with without being in character?

It's a double edged sword, really. I spend so much of my time in character that I sometimes just want to walk away from the whole thing and live out the rest of my life as a hermit on a mountaintop, but when I am not in character, I am alone and lonely, and the only time I feel even somewhat accepted is when I am not being me. So on one hand, I feel driven to be the businessman, the promoter, the entrepreneur and philanthropist, because this is the person the world accepts and likes, and I want to be accepted and liked. Who doesn't? On the other hand, I hate it. I hate that I have to play a role to be considered a member of society, that my true and honest self is somehow subhuman and unworthy of acceptance, let alone love or affection.

I was born a flirt!

I'm not trying to be inappropriate or come on to anyone for real. But I have offered before and I would still like to do practice flirting on here with anyone who wants to try, just for fun.

You described in a sense how I feel in this paragraph. However, for me I lost my professional interests (and all other interests really) because of being alone all the time. I feel there is no point. Never had a friend. Never had a relationship. I just posted a thread* in Coping with Emotions forum, and I described how the whole thing makes me feel.

*Negative post and possibly triggering for some.

This made me laugh. I would like to thank you for this, because I was angry the whole day.

This describes my cousin spot on, he is capable of love and caring, he does have empathy just not expressed in the same way as many. He can and does make multiple faux pas and misjudgements because he reads situations wrongly, but he adores his wife and she loves him as he is.

I don't believe in fate or destiny or a prearranged time at which anything will 'come' to me. Nothing has ever happened in my life that I did not make happen. All my life has been a struggle, and I'm better for it. The bullying I endured as a child gave me the fighting skills that led to an almost perfect boxing record. Actually, my only 'loss' was a technicality; the accident that ended my career took place less than 24 hours before the fight was scheduled, and it was too close to cancel, so it went down as a loss by forfeit. I started my business because I had struggled to find work spent years un- or under-employed.

Really? Two years of nothing but rejection? Most people I know barely go a month between relationships unless they are actively avoiding them. This is another reason advice is hard to come by. It's not a common experience.

I have tried this. Of my three friends, one says he's as clueless as I am, although he is getting married next month. Another says part of my problem is aspergers/ not knowing how to read people or flirt, and another part of the problem is I am very damaged from past relationships, though when I asked her how I could overcome this, she said, "considering what you've been through, I don't know if you can. I seriously hate all the women that have messed you up this bad; you don't deserve it." And the last one, who I actually dated for a while, said the problem is not me; it's everyone else. I said, 'Thanks, but tell me the truth." Then she started listing my good traits and said, "Honestly, it's a little too much. No woman could live up to all that. The reason you can't find anyone is no one is good enough for you. I'm not. I can't think of any woman who is."[/quote]

I actually don't do things I don't enjoy. I don't really have to. I enjoy my work. I enjoy the volunteer work I do (of course, it's closely related to my work). I not only enjoy my hobbies (building custom furniture, green energy technology, etc.), but they tend to spring from my 'special interests' and also end up being lucrative. But this does tend to backfire. I have been called a workaholic, and told that this can be unattractive.

You're welcome.

Richard, you are so articulate, so insightful into your own behaviors, I'm wondering if you really have Aspergers.

I dated a man many years ago. He's dead now, but looking back on our relationship, he fits the description of Aspergers. I hurt him very deeply, and badly, but he didn't understand that I wanted to end the relationship. His condition was really bad, though, unlike you seem to reveal in your writing.

Who even has diagnosed you with Aspergers? As a retired teacher, I've had many students with this disorder, and it's pretty debilitating. Obsessing over minutiae, needing constant reassurance. You don't seem to be like that.

As for being alone...there are far worse things. Like..an unhappy relationship to which you've attached yourself.

I've chosen, happily, to be alone, after many online dating debacles, which cost me a lot of money and emotional energy. Try finding things that interest you, take a class, volunteer (you say you already do that). Here there is a Meetup for atheists also. Maybe find one.

I'm curious to know how that would work in an online setting or how it would translate to a real world setting. Much of what I miss in social interactions is nonverbal; body language, eye contact, tone of voice, etc.

I don't understand why you don't want to try CBT. You say it would just make you act less Aspergers/Autistic, but wouldn't that then help you ultimately with interacting with women in social situations and getting dates, etc? If the problem is having lack of social skills, for whatever reason, then learning those social skills would be a start to a solution. At least then you could break the ice with women, then as they get to know you, you wouldn't have to force it so hard.

Seesaw

Let's say we were at a friend's wedding, seated at a table with single women and men. We can just role play some conversation, anyone can join in.

We all are good looking, attractive people.

When I join the table and sit down, I say hello to everyone seated and introduce myself.

What happens next?

If I can join, I will try to say what would actually happen with me, as a socially awkward person.

I would say hello back, and sip some champagne (or whatever being served), while pretending to watch something not on the table we are sitting at, like the dancing ring and the people who dance, waiting someone at the table to talk either with me or with someone else. Next?

Hi. Are you a friend of the bride's or the groom's?