Please give sound advice

I am presently involved in a relationship, where my female mate wants to have male friends that she can talk to when she wants. I have read many online advice things about this question. I think it only leads to problems, further down the line. I don't want to lose her but she has basically given me an ultimatum, accept it or move down the road. I just need to hear some sound, sage advice please. Thank you very much for your time and your considerate advice. sincerely, larry

Hello larry: I see this is your first post here on PC. So... welcome to PsychCentral.

So... sage advice, huh? Okay...well... my wife & I have been married for 39 years. So you probably can't get a whole lot more sage than that. From my perspective I don't think there are any concrete answers to this. It's not a right or wrong sort of situation.

The situation you describe can be a tricky one. There is such a thing as an "emotional affair" that can develop in these sorts of situations. (I'll be linking you to some articles on this subject.) And it's not always easy to see when a friendship is drifting across the line into the realm of the emotional affair, particularly for the two parties who are involved. So one does need to be careful.

On the other hand, I believe that a marriage is between two adults who none-the-less maintain their status as independent individuals. I would never consider it to be appropriate for me to tell my wife who she should & shouldn't be friends with. I would consider it to be appropriate for me to express my concern regarding a particular relationship my wife might have (or vice versa.) But it would be her decision regarding how, or if, to respond.

Hopefully what would happen in a circumstance such as this is that the two of us would talk the situation through & she would decide how to proceed based on our discussion. But, by the same token, I would also have the right to decide what I was or was not willing to accept & how I wanted to proceed. From that perspective, it becomes a matter of personal boundaries... both my wife's & mine. (Again... see articles below.) We are each independent adults whose lives intersect within our marriage, if that makes sense.

So... all that written... what your mate is doing is establishing some personal boundaries with regard to your relationship with her. That's perfectly appropriate to my mind. You also have the right to your own personal boundaries though. And where "the rub" comes, so to speak, is where your personal boundaries and your mate's fail to jibe. Then it's a matter of the two of you talking the situation through & seeing if you can figure out a way to reconcile your personal boundaries with your mate's. This is where couples sometimes seek counseling when they can't come to some resolution on their own.

Here are links to a selection of 11 articles, from PsychCentral's archives, that hopefully may be of help in putting this situation into perspective, the 8th by our host Dr. John Grohol, Psy.D.:

Opposite-Sex Friendships and Romantic Relationships

12 Warning Signs That It's Emotional Infidelity – And Not 'Just Friendship' | Neuroscience and Relationships

Communication Pitfalls & Pointers for Couples; Psych Central

How Conflict Can Improve Your Relationship

Agreeing to Disagree: Overcoming Communication Conundrums in Relationships

https://psychcentral.com/lib/10-rule...couples/?all=1

https://psychcentral.com/lib/the-10-...happy-couples/

https://psychcentral.com/lib/5-secre...arriage/?all=1

https://psychcentral.com/lib/keeping...our-needs-met/

https://psychcentral.com/blog/why-he...ries-in-yours/

https://psychcentral.com/blog/3-ways...ip-boundaries/

I hope you find PC to be of benefit.

Thank you! Thank you! Thank you!

Thank you for responding and the words you have said are full of wisdom, certainly sage.
The articles you have presented are certainly full of nuggets of wisdom too.
Although all this has come probably a day late, I certainly will copy and paste all the printed material to reflect upon in my next relationship.
You are a very big help and "May God Bless You All Your Days."

sincerely, larry

((((larry64)))) I'm assuming the relationship has ended. I'm sorry to hear that Is there any way to rebuilt it? If not, at least you know better now. I agree that I don't think having male friends is inappropriate for a woman.

larry64 - I actually understand this. I had a previous relationship where it was drastically impacted by my husband's relationships with women. A great deal of it was troubling to me and I found some of it inappropriate. And yes, I got really jealous. As one example it bothered me that he would socialise with female friends in ways he wouldn't with me. He would meet them for lunch for example yet never did the same with me. What particularly bothered me was the idea he would have confidants outside of our own relationship. The way I saw it was that it ought to be me that he was sharing his fears, emotions, tribulations, and even the positives with. That was my job as a partner not theirs. It was very upsetting when I realised he would be discussing with them things he wouldn't with me.

So yeah, all in all I am uncomfortable with my mate having female friends of any kind. This is problematic for me. I have told my current boyfriend my feelings on this and he has curbed the extent of his socialization. Still, I am aware there are still female acquaintances and colleagues he remains in touch with. I have drawn the line though at the manner in which he relates and communicates with them - absolutely no texting and social media. Absolutely no contact with friends he doesn't know in real life. This is a deal breaker. If I were to find out he was the relationship would be off.

I wonder though about your own behaviour. What manner of friends do you have and in what manner do you maintain the relationship. I have limited myself from having any friendships with other men as I find it inappropriate. If you on the other hand had female acquaintances of your own I don't think you would have had a valid argument against your partner's own relationships with other men - friends or otherwise.

Hi there. I believe that people should not restrict each other’s friendships. That would be far too controlling and limiting. It’s a matter of your own comfort level though. Are you comfortable with her having male friends? If you’re not, then you have your answer, but that will also limit you quite a bit when it comes to relationships.

Men and women certainly can be platonic friends without any threat to the relationship. My fiancé and I both have friends of the opposite sex. We are not threatened by those friendships. Both of us are secure enough, we trust each other and we have a solid relationship so there is no threat. I think when people feel insecure about themselves and/ or the relationship, trust issues develop. People have to feel secure in order to feel comfortable with their partner having friends of the opposite sex. If you’re not secure, then it’s going to be a problem.

So the real question is, do you feel secure enough within yourself and within the relationship to feel comfortable with her having male friends? Or are you going to be suspicious of every male friend she has?

Thank you for the reply. Thankfully, the relationship was restored because I was willing to change my views, that's how much this relationship meant to me. Sometimes that is hard, when something we believe so strong in has ended up tearing our hearts apart, in the past. certainly we should not let the past ruin our present and future relationships. We should learn by the past in a positive way, but never forget the negative aspect of it, because both together, the positive and the negative of the past situation, help to mold our thinking, from that day forward. Certainly, it is not inappropriate for either mate to have friends of the opposite sex. There should be appropriate times to be texting though and the texts should remain transparent, to eliminate any suspicion. Have a great week and stay positive in your mind.

Thank you for the reply. I agree with everything you have stated. Sharing emotions with someone of the opposite sex, outside the relationship, should not be allowed. "Emotional Affairs" can take hold at any moment and that should be eliminated at all costs. Also, I feel as though all texts should be "Transparent" to eliminate any suspicion and help in understanding what is and what isn't allowed, within texts. This is all new to me. I always felt from my past marriage, lessons learned the very hard way, all opposite sex communication was out of bounds. Certainly, there are instances where it is appropriate, but as you stated, share your emotional feelings with me, your spouse, not with your opposite sex friends. As far as myself, I have two females friends, not sure you could call them friends though, they are more like acquaintances, that I mentor. Would I give communication up with these two individuals, if it caused troubles in my relationship with my mate, certainly, in a heart beat. My mate is my life and to make any relationship work out, especially a marriage, an individual should be willing to put their mates needs first. That is just how I was raised and how I always lived my life. Obviously everyone doesn't live by them standards and wasn't raised that way, so people all have different philosophies on what's right and wrong. I do believe that, 'a happy wife is a happy life" if you try and live by that motto, things will certainly be better I feel in any relationship. Obviously, the door should swing both ways, but someone has to be willing to initiate the first steps. I may be old fashioned, lol, but I stand by my philosophies, believing in, "you reap what you sow" So yes, in changing a few of my personal views, from past relationships that went awry, I was able to restore my present relationship. They say "You can't teach old dogs new tricks" but I tell you this, if that old dog cares enough about the woman he loves and wants to spend the rest of his life with her, he better change the way he sees some things in life, (so I did)
Have a great week and stay positive. Remember, "Your day is what you make it!"

Hi! Thank you for the reply.
You mentioned the key word, "insecurity" I have always based my life philosophies on life long experiences. So being cheated on in the past, in a marriage with 3 children, it was devastating. It is true I never learned to get past that situation, it was embedded in my mind as a valuable life lesson. Obviously now though, I have reconsidered my philosophies and made appropriate steps to change some of them in a positive way, because the relationship I am in now, which was restored, means everything to me and I want to spend the rest of my life with this lady. So yes, all the fault was plainly mine. So I had to decide what was more important in my life, obviously she is. So I have had to do some real, deep, soul searching. I know the end result is the right result. Friends of the opposite sex is appropriate. There should be appropriate times to text and the texts should remain transparent. That eliminates all suspicion. Hopefully I am correct in my thought process.
Have a great week and stay positive.
Remember, "We get out of life, what we put into it!"

sincerely,

larry

Hi. I am glad you have changed your thinking on this and that you know you want to spend the rest of your life with her. I would be very careful though around telling her when she can text her male friends and about asking to see the texts. That is too far controlling. She will resent it, most likely, and will feel you don't trust her. In order to fully let go of your past, you must allow yourself to give her the benefit of the doubt and trust her more. IF she chooses to tell you what they're texting about, that is her choice, but in my opinion, you don't have the right to ask to see the texts or to tell her they must be transparent. I also don't think you have the right to tell her when it's appropriate to text her male friends. Unless there is reason for suspicion, why make it seem like it's suspect from the beginning? Get my point?

It appears Larry64 that I have a pretty hard core view on this. I guess we can chalk it up to personal experience.

In the relationship I spoke about it very much got in the way and affected it. As example, the social media contact was a particular problem when I discovered he took some of these 'friendships' into real life. His relationships outside our own began to take a precedence in that I took a back seat. When such activity is a distraction to the real relationship then it has definitely become a problem. In my opinion, sitting there texting a 'friend' while they ought to be putting the attention on you is definitely a problem which should never happen. Perhaps there does exist others out there who might agree that this is a no-no. I am pretty sure there will be some that agree this is all not very comforting.

I am happy for you that you were able to salvage something important but wonder if you felt forced to concede to your original judgement. I think it important thusly to voice your boundaries, even if it means disagreement.

Interesting points. Thank you! Certainly I will take these points into consideration. They make perfect sense to me. As I stated, this is all new to me. So the valuable information you have put down before me, is of utmost importance. Thank you very much.

Truly there is a line that must not be crossed and boundries should be applied in all instances. When your mate is giving attention to someone else, male or female, and that time should be being applied to us, at that moment, certainly that is a no-no. So in that aspect, there are clearly times to be texting and to not be texting, unless it happened to be a life or death
situation.

"did I feel forced to concede?" Well, I still feel very strongly about what I originally thought, but in order to make this relationship work out, I felt it was better to bend my philosophies a bit like a willow tree. I'm like you though, to show my total commitment to our relationship, I am willing to give up all communication with present females in my life except family which is my daughter. I think to allow her, her freedom within the relationship, she should have full reign to do as she pleases and her and I should talk about anything that either of us feel uncomfortable about. I don't own her but certainly I want her to Love me and give her all to me. Confine a beautiful butterfly within a cage, it soon dies. Let it roam free to fly as it pleases and it lives a long full prosperous life. So yes, I love her and I want this relationship to work out and so therefore I am willing to make compromises to see that it works out. Insecurities from our past will always be in the back of our heads, we learned valuable hard lessons from them, but on the other hand, we should not constrain our mates in what they are doing if it helps them to live a fuller, better, happier life. Certainly we want all their time and devotion completely, hehe, but we must too be careful how we do that. No body owns no body and at any given moment they are susceptible to walking out of our life. So we must be willing to bend like a willow in order to maintain our happiness as well as theirs. Truthfully speaking, we may have gotten deeply jilted from a past relationship, but one must stop and consider, not all people are the same. Truly there are some sincere hearted individuals out there that would never do anything to let another come in between them and their mates.... and if they seen something beginning to happen, if they truly loved their mate with all their heart, they would disconnect the relationship with the person trying to come in between. Because that individual that is trying to steal our mate doesn't just have to be a friend of the opposite sex through texting, it could just as well be the individual ringing up your order at the grocery store. Stay positive and Thanks!

what do you mean exactly. You mean texting or going for a coffee with them? and do you mean completely platonic. Are these good friends of hers or of you both or just people online?

Since there are so many conflicting opinions people should make the decision before they get serious.

Bottom line is that you're involved with someone that sees things differently than you, has a different set of priorities and values, and seems to have a different outlook on male to female relationships.



One could go into a number of reasons that there could potentially be problems in a relationship based on different variables and ruminate about how each particular potential problem should be averted by one changing, or the other but at the end of the day the question is not the problem itself it is a consensus between the partners. Without agreement on what should be done, even absent of her male friends themselves causing problems in your relationship you'll be dealing with problems in the area of being two people that do not see eye to eye in that particular area.
Can having male friends or friends of the opposite sex cause issues? yes, and they do in some cases, without question but we don't know either way whether that's an issue that will happen or not and controlling who and what type of friends your mate picks is always the wrong choice especially if they don't agree with your view.

essentially you have to accept this or move on. No other way. If you cannot find a way to accept that this is her choice, there isn't the option to bar her from male friends. If you can accept that this is the way it is, great but my impulse would be that your belief that it's a problem is not going to go away.
Find someone that shares your values and perspective on these kinds of things and you'll be much happier.

First off Welcome! Now all I can tell you is about my own experience. My Husband, and I made a deal when we first got together. It was, and still is ( if ether person wants to see someone else, that person has to let the other know, then things will be decided). I have had many male friends through my marriage, without any problems, and I know my Husband has several female friends. We have been together over 27 years, and married for over 25 years. There is some sort of saying like this (have a open hand with your partner bc if you have a closed fist, you will lose). I don't know if this will make sense to you, but it has worked out ok for us. I have also told my Husband that if he ever cheated on me, our life together would be done. We realized early that if you hold something/someone that don't want to be held it or they will be gone.