[hvert]

Would love to hear opinions on this. My husband had scheduled surgery. The week before, his mother called several times and said she wanted to come. She lives ~10 hours away driving. He asked her not to. She's pretty needy and a visit with her would be stressful.

Today she said she was flying in. He shouted at her and told her not to, from his hospital bed. She promised she would not.

She called a few minutes ago and we are pretty sure she is in town. She wanted to know visiting hours. She also was not responding to messages this afternoon.

Is that normal? A few of my friends who have adult children don't think it's that strange. I think it's really weird to disregard an adult child's request. He's over 40.

It's rude, presumptuous and an imposition. Calling it like I see it. Does she normally run over boundaries like that? I vaguely remember such an event in my life (yikes, did it happen to me??! LOL), and I thought the same. It's obnoxious.

It's probably best I don't say what I'd say to her...

[Bill3]

I wonder if the hospital would be willing to bar her from entering his room/floor.

[hvert]

Yeah, it's really frigging awkward. He is really angry and does not want to let her in the room because he doesn't want to reward her bad behavior. I am worried that will trigger a lot worse stress and bad feeling. How did you handle it when it happened to you (if you feel like sharing, maybe it's better not to think about it!) I can see my mother doing the same exact thing (and she did a smaller version of it yesterday).

She does have boundary issues and of her three children, my husband is the only one who visits. One child is completely estranged and she has trouble leaving that child alone. This is the biggest boundary violation I am aware of. The more I think about it, the angrier I get. We told her we planned to visit in four weeks. How on earth can someone think it is a good idea to LIE about where they are and casually ask about visiting hours so they can do a pop in? He didn't tell her which hospital...

[hvert]

Originally Posted by Bill3

I wonder if the hospital would be willing to bar her from entering his room/floor.

He asked about that this morning. To ban her, we would have to give all visitors a secret code and restrict entry to his room. He decided not to do it at that time but is thinking of doing it now.

It seems like a nuclear option. As awful as what she is doing is, it seems like the psychodrama fall out would be worse for his healing than letting her visit for 30 minutes a day or something. The issue with that is if she can't respect the boundary to not come at all, there's little chance she will respect the boundary to limit her visits.

[unaluna]

I just asked the nurse to escort my mother out, like 5-10 minutes after she strolled in, stinking of casino smoke. That was in the emergency dept at a hospital, but i just said the smell was making me sick, which is what i was in for to begin with, puking, and woops she was gone!

[hvert]

Originally Posted by unaluna

I just asked the nurse to escort my mother out, like 5-10 minutes after she strolled in, stinking of casino smoke. That was in the emergency dept at a hospital, but i just said the smell was making me sick, which is what i was in for to begin with, puking, and woops she was gone!

OMG, why do people have to do stuff that makes you feel worse when you already feel lousy??? ETA: especially mothers who are supposed to care how you feel, some of whom seem to care much more about how THEY feel.

I am struggling to stay out of this but want to keep my opinions to myself and support whatever he decides to do. I couldn't resist suggesting I call and tell her we were at a medical center in a different city, lol.

[Mopey]

Hvert, to me, this person (the mother) requires the activation of the Big Guns. Of course it would be hard, but probably the best thing would be to do whatever is required to KEEP HER OUT. Your husband's health is seriously impaired anyway. Her needs are not important in this situation, I feel.

Not a decision I'd like to make, myself, but there it is.

[hvert]

Originally Posted by Mopey

Hvert, to me, this person (the mother) requires the activation of the Big Guns. Of course it would be hard, but probably the best thing would be to do whatever is required to KEEP HER OUT. Your husband's health is seriously impaired anyway. Her needs are not important in this situation, I feel.

Not a decision I'd like to make, myself, but there it is.

I feel bad that I expressed disagreement over his initial plan to bring out the Big Guns. Really disappointed in this violation. It has been about her, not him each time she has called. It was so awful to listen to the call this morning which was 100% about her plans to visit against his wishes and not at all about how he was feeling.

Even when I called to update her the day of the surgery, she was weird. She didn't ask how he was or for any details about his diagnosis. Instead, she told me that he'd said something flattering about me, and when I said it was sweet, she told me he'd never said it.

When I was younger, I didn't understand why people were secretive about health issues, but I sure get it now.

[Rose76]

What a nuisance! I like the post above about having the uninvited guest escorted out. You do have that option . . . even without setting up the secret code word, etc. All hospitals have security officers, and that is part of their job. You tell a nurse that the woman is causing too much stress and you need her out of there. The nurse will have a security officer escort her out, if she won't leave. Sometimes you have to go a little nuclear to back some people off.

What's really galling is that this woman seems to know perfectly well that her coming out is unwelcome . . . and she doesn't care. You're right to hang back a bit. Ultimately, this is between mother and son . . . though a sick guy deserves support and help managing intrusion.

"Intrusiveness" is a classic hallmark of certain types of personality problems. With these types, you really have to draw a line in the sand and consistently defend it. They never accept "No" and test every boundary. One hates to seem rude, but being rebuffed doesn't really bother this type, or they would have backed off long ago.

[hvert]

That's a really good point that being rebuffed doesn't bother these types of people!

@hvert

I don’t know about normal but it’s not healthy. It’s rude and unreasonable but it doesn’t sound like she will stop this behavior. I expect any attempt to communicate with her about it will not end well. People who don’t respect the needs and wishes of others tend to be impossible to reason with.

Originally Posted by hvert

How did you handle it when it happened to you (if you feel like sharing, maybe it's better not to think about it!) I can see my mother doing the same exact thing (and she did a smaller version of it yesterday).

I JUST remembered what it was. It was many years ago. I'd been on the phone with my mother and told her not to visit (there was a reason, but I can't remember). About a week later, she called saying she'd bought her airline ticket(!!!!!) The hook of course being that she'd "already spent the money".

I have to admit, though I was furious, she visited. Now that I know more about boundaries and the personality types that ignore them, I would NOT have let her in. To make a point if nothing else. Point being that I will not tolerate being disrespected like that. It was thousands of miles, so it would have been a big point. They do not understand anything more subtle.

That was before I finally cut ties with her. There was no other way to keep her toxic BS out of my life.

Personally, I'd do whatever it took to keep her out. You don't want to reward her with even 5 minutes. Your husband is right, it is a reward for bad behavior to let them carry on against your will.

Sending you the best of luck. Keep us posted. Hugs to you and your husband. This is not an easy situation, and the last thing someone in a medical situation needs(!)

[Rose76]

Originally Posted by hvert

That's a really good point that being rebuffed doesn't bother these types of people!

They have no shame. Most of us would be mortified to discover we'ld showed up at a scenario where our presence was unwanted. Our mistake would have been inadvertant, and we'ld be tripping over ourselves to correct it and back off. Not these types. The more you don't want them there, the more they figure there is some juicy drama going on that they don't want to miss out on.

A cancer diagnosis has the potential for high drama. These types slow way down when they pass the scene of an accident on a roadway. The more the cops try to waive them along, the slower they go, craning their necks to try and see what the ambulance crew is doing with the injured occupants of the vehicles. Perhaps a tragedy has occurred. Oh, how tantalizing!. That's their mindset. Their lives are boring. Inserting themselves into your crisis is how they remedy the hollowness of their existence.

"I'm only here to see if I can be of help." That's their cover story. But they're takers, not givers. They are parasitic, emotionally feeding off of you. That's what makes their presence so noxious. They are voyeurs whose satisfaction in getting a "fix" overrides the embarrassment of being considered intrusive. "Move over and let me see!" is not the mindset of love and caring. Your MIL strikes me as crass and opportunistic. She'll get out of your hair only when she gets bored with being there. Don't entertain her. Interact with her minimally. She seeks stimulation. To her, being argued with is better than being ignored . . . just so long as she gets to join the cast of "the play."

I'm sorry your husband and you have to be imposed upon like this.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by Rose76

They have no shame. Most of us would be mortified to discover we'ld showed up at a scenario where our presence was unwanted. Our mistake would have been inadvertant, and we'ld be tripping over ourselves to correct it and back off. Not these types. The more you don't want them there, the more they figure there is some juicy drama going on that they don't want to miss out on.

A cancer diagnosis has the potential for high drama. These types slow way down when they pass the scene of an accident on a roadway. The more the cops try to waive them along, the slower they go, craning their necks to try and see what the ambulance crew is doing with the injured occupants of the vehicles. Perhaps a tragedy has occurred. Oh, how tantalizing!. That's their mindset. Their lives are boring. Inserting themselves into your crisis is how they remedy the hollowness of their existence.

"I'm only here to see if I can be of help." That's their cover story. But they're takers, not givers. They are parasitic, emotionally feeding off of you. That's what makes their presence so noxious. They are voyeurs whose satisfaction in getting a "fix" overrides the embarrassment of being considered intrusive. "Move over and let me see!" is not the mindset of love and caring. Your MIL strikes me as crass and opportunistic. She'll get out of your hair only when she gets bored with being there. Don't entertain her. Interact with her minimally. She seeks stimulation. To her, being argued with is better than being ignored . . . just so long as she gets to join the cast of "the play."

I'm sorry your husband and you have to be imposed upon like this.

This woman is a pain and if she was told not to come she should stay home even if she is worried.

But you made it sound like she can’t possibly have any feelings about her son being sick like she is a total stranger. “Inserting herself into your crisis ” make it sound like she can’t possibly have any feelings about her son being sick, like the only reason she wants to see her son is out of boredom and hollowness of her life. She might be crass but assuming she has no motherly or even basic human feelings is just a bit extreme. We aren’t inside this woman’s head

[hvert]

She's not here! We got happier and happier yesterday as the day went by and no one came in. My husband talked to her last night. He thinks she may still have some secret plan, but she was with his father who cannot travel so she's not here. She also finally asked about how he was doing instead of arguing about visiting.

Innerzone, that was the EXACT ploy his mother used! 'I already bought the ticket.' 'It's not my money, I don't care if you want to burn yours.' She has been so insistent about visiting, so focused on wearing down his resistance, that he is backed into a corner where he feels like if he lets her visit now, he's giving in and encouraging more bad behavior. If he is feeling well, we will stop at their house in a few weeks. Visiting them is easier because we can leave when we want. If she visits us here, we are literally trapped. He can't get away!

Last year, just after my father died, they wanted my husband to visit. I had a close relative dying not too far from their house, so we planned to visit both relatives on one trip - but they told me not to come. They only wanted to see him. It was much more inconvenient, having to make two solo, separate long distance drives, but we did it. I didn't argue with them or say anything against him going. The part of me that was happy I didn't have to go was probably overwhelming the part of me that was insulted by being disinvited, lol.

[divine1966]

Originally Posted by hvert

She's not here! We got happier and happier yesterday as the day went by and no one came in. My husband talked to her last night. He thinks she may still have some secret plan, but she was with his father who cannot travel so she's not here. She also finally asked about how he was doing instead of arguing about visiting.

Innerzone, that was the EXACT ploy his mother used! 'I already bought the ticket.' 'It's not my money, I don't care if you want to burn yours.' She has been so insistent about visiting, so focused on wearing down his resistance, that he is backed into a corner where he feels like if he lets her visit now, he's giving in and encouraging more bad behavior. If he is feeling well, we will stop at their house in a few weeks. Visiting them is easier because we can leave when we want. If she visits us here, we are literally trapped. He can't get away!

Last year, just after my father died, they wanted my husband to visit. I had a close relative dying not too far from their house, so we planned to visit both relatives on one trip - but they told me not to come. They only wanted to see him. It was much more inconvenient, having to make two solo, separate long distance drives, but we did it. I didn't argue with them or say anything against him going. The part of me that was happy I didn't have to go was probably overwhelming the part of me that was insulted by being disinvited, lol.

They told you not to come visit and only wanted him? How rude. But what else is new. My dad is rude too but he thinks everyone else is.

[Open Eyes]

((hvert)), I am sorry you and your husband are going through this challenge. Unfortunately older parents can have certain things they think is right from their generation that don't really fit into how people see things now. One of those things is thinking that if a family member is ill or hospitalized it's a must or duty to rush to their side even when told not to bother. This is her son too and that can also present his mother with genuinely believing it's her duty to be there for him regardless of what he thinks or you think. It's very possible that in her generation a person was thought badly of if they did not rush to the side of a sick family member. There are things like this that can be deeply instilled in someone from an older generation. So, it doesn't always boil down to the person being a narcissist or toxic or bad in some way but instead a true duty. A mother's worst nightmare is to lose a child and it doesn't matter how old that child is either, it's ageless between mother and child. Actually, it would be considered extremely cold if a mother did not show this kind of concern for her children and as I mentioned, doesn't matter what the child's age is.

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

...Actually, it would be considered extremely cold if a mother did not show this kind of concern for her children and as I mentioned, doesn't matter what the child's age is.

Yes. "It would be considered" - by others. By onlookers. But the child knows that the mother is not in the habit of showing this kind of concern, and when the adult child is ill, he is in NO MOOD to be putting on a display of false family fealty for named or unnamed rando others. I sure wasn't. It uses up too much emotional energy that should be channeled towards one's healing.

Hmmm, though I think you were only trying to provide another viewpoint, OpenEyes, I have to take issue with it. Looking again from a generational standpoint.... If there's one thing that generation goes on (and on) about it's how nobody has any manners anymore. And it is not now, nor has ever been good manners to show up uninvited, let alone when expressly told NOT to come. It is the height of bad manners! So, no, I don't think she gets a pass.

It's all about insisting that you know what someone wants and the actual person does not. It's narcissistic and presumptuous.

[unaluna]

Innerzone - youre bringing etiquette to a war zone! To a fight over boundaries. If one had minded their etiquette from the beginning, one wouldnt be in the present position. But interesting point.

[MickeyCheeky]

I'm not sure if that's "normal", hvert. I know of many parents that would likely do that but that doesn't necessarely make it good or ok. Still, I agree with you that she's crossing the boundaries that her own son has put up with her. I'm sure she has no bad intentions but she needs to learn to take a No as an answer. If your husband does NOT want to see her I'm sure he can just ask the staff at the hospital to keep her outside. I believe he's allowed to do that. It is his own health we're talking about after all. Hopefully she'll understand this. Either way, from what you wrote it seems like she isn't actually there if I've understood correctly. That's good! It means that she listened. I hoope your husband will get well soon! Please take care of yourself and of him! Sending many safe, warm hugs to BOTH you and your husband, hvert!

Originally Posted by hvert

Today she said she was flying in. He shouted at her and told her not to, from his hospital bed. She promised she would not.

She called a few minutes ago and we are pretty sure she is in town. She wanted to know visiting hours. She also was not responding to messages this afternoon.

I don't agree with her breaking boundaries but I also don't agree with him shouting at her.

The mother should respect the fact that her son is now an adult, and respect his request.

At the same time, the son should still be respectful towards his mother while voicing his opinion. Next time, ask the front desk to say that he is resting and not accepting visitors. This would be a civil way to set boundaries.

[hvert]

Originally Posted by divine1966

They told you not to come visit and only wanted him? How rude. But what else is new. My dad is rude too but he thinks everyone else is.

I thought it was especially rude since my father had just died and my best friend right after - and they wanted my husband to leave me alone to tend to their needs.

They complained I did not send a thank you note for the funeral flowers they sent. It hadn't even been a month! *I'm* the one who orders flowers for their birthdays/special days and they've never sent me a thank you note.

I am trying to keep a lid on my feelings about them so he can act on his own feelings without influence from me. It's a struggle! I find it especially difficult not to get angry at them thinking I am the reason he doesn't want them here, but it is easier for him if that's what they want to think, so whatever.

OE and unaluna, you nailed it with 'would be considered.' I realized that some of my friends who said that they would be by their child's side in a minute were probably the kind of mothers their kids want to see. Supportive, loving, and helpful. If your mother has never been that interested in you and suddenly wants to be by your side when tragedy strikes, it's kind of annoying. No one wants you in a supporting role if you haven't been going to the rehearsals.

[metalchick]

I just had surgery 3 weeks ago, my sister came to help me, but my parents decided to put themselves of standby, taking the week of work just in case. They were very upset when I told them not to come. I really didnt need the help. They would have just sat in my hot house, chasing around my dog and fighting with my kids dad. It would have been chaos. They weren't really accepting no as an answer and my sister had to tell them I would be fine. They wound up not coming but just came for a quick one day visit. I was fine with that.