[MsLady]

I was in an altercation with my partner the other day.

Long story short, he was yelling at me for shutting the door on him so I leaned into him with the "intent" to have him leave the room. He was near the doorway. He didn't budge at all. He didn't get hurt. I started closing the door again and he stepped back. I held the door for a brief moment and told him to stop. He was shouting "Physical abuse! Get your hands off me!" Everything happened so fast and ended as quick as it started.

He then shouted that he was going to call the police. He never did. Our neighbours likely heard and he told his family I physically abused him.

He says this is considered "assault" and had he called the police, I would have been charged. Thoughts?

In my country, assault is..
".. the person being charged had direct intent to inflict harm." But it also says something about intent to move by force without consent.

Please don't lecture me about it. I know it was wrong. This is the second incident in the 6years we've been together, and in both cases, he was being verbally abusive. I get he was mad "this time" for shutting the door on him.

I just want to know, is this considered assault or abuse? I didn't "push" him. I "leaned" into him with my hands on his arms.

[Open Eyes]

Unless there is a witness and physical injury it's basically just his word against yours.

Sounds like he baits you so you react.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Unless there is a witness and physical injury it's basically just his word against yours.

There doesn't have to be injury. Just "intent" to harm or a "threat" to harm.

What if I was honest about it.. is it considered a criminal offense?

Is "leaning" into him with intent to move him considered "pushing"?

[Open Eyes]

Well he did not call the police so don’t hang on to the fear of that or the what if’s. Take what his reaction was as a warning so you don’t react to him in any physical way.

Sounds like he likes to test pushing your boundaries to see if he can get a reaction out of you.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Well he did not call the police so don’t hang on to the fear of that or the what if’s. Take what his reaction was as a warning so you don’t react to him in any physical way.

Yes, that's my plan exactly. Things have been going well these days so my guard was down.

He's also upped the affection. I'm trying to compromise but the more accepting I am of his attempts, the more he wants. He's pushing it and I'm not feeling it. Yesterday he seemed a bit clingy. Everytime I'd walk by, he'd have to interject and hug me. Enough, already. I know it's not for me. HE needs it. It's an emotional hunger situation and because I'm aware of it, it's off-putting. So I set a boundary and he felt rejected and then this all played out.

Sounds like he likes to test pushing your boundaries to see if he can get a reaction out of you.

I'm not sure about that. I do see a pattern now, though. It's..

Perceived rejection/attack =
- threat
- emotional blackmail & excessive texting
- stonewalling & punishment
- love bombing
- expectations

[MsLady]

I just want to know if my actions are considered a criminal offense.

[TishaBuv]

I’m not a lawyer or police, this is my educated guess: If he had called police, they would have talked to both of you to get the details. He’d say you pushed, you’d say you leaned. If they thought it a volatile domestic situation, they’d probably remove one of you and take you to the police station and ‘book’ you (but it’s also to protect you both from further abuse). Then you’d get a lawyer who would plead that it was nothing illegal and charges would be dropped. Meanwhile, this would cost you money, stress, possibly more harm in custody, and worsen your whole domestic abuse situation.

[divine1966]

I don’t think it’s bad enough for assault charges. But it could be considered domestic abuse and who really knows? It’s tricky and not straight forward

Intent to push someone is some type of abuse but it could be also explained that you felt threatened by him and tried to get him out of the room. If police was called they might also question domestic disputes of this nature happening with children in the house (unless they were elsewhere) and police might get social services involved.

Right now it’s not an issue since he didn’t call the police and I doubt it’s criminal offense trying to get someone to leave the room. But the whole thing could play out rather badly. One or both of you could be arrested etc if one of you call the police in cases like this. It’s hard to say how law enforcement would perceive such situation

[MsLady]

What happened afterwards is far more concerning to me than this incident. My 3yr old called this incident the "small problem". The incident that occurred 20ish min later in his room, as the "big problem".

Dad texted saying she would be sleeping with him for the night. So once the baby was fed to sleep, I went over to his room to check in on her, make sure she was ok, and really did want to sleep there.

I entered the room quietly and she noticed me first. Dad was still texting on his phone. I walked towards her and softly called her name. She was not at all afraid or stressed seeing me walk towards her. Once dad noticed me, he immediately started yelling for me to get out! and not to "take her". He scared the both of us. She began to cry. I kept telling them I was only there to talk with her. He wouldn't listen.

Long story short, he screamed so loud, threatening police, social services, accusations of physical abuse, I'm still shaken up, days later. He was over the top. It was like he was stuck in his own head and playing out a scene that didn't exist. He was scaring all of us, having her believe I was there to "take her away" and later told her he was trying to "protect" her. It's such a distorted scenario. I never raised my voice. I repeatedly said I was just there to talk to HER.

At one point dad left the room. I turned to her and softly said, "Hey, it's me, mom" to which she instantly calmed. I wiped her tears. I snuggled with her for a bit. But as soon as dad returned, it all continued.. police, social services, abuse!! What a nightmare. My daughter said THIS was the "big problem". Undoubtedly.

The next day I spoke with her. She asked a lot of questions. I told her I shouldn't have leaned into dad to get him out of the room. He was yelling and I reacted. I told her I shouldn't have closed the door on him in the first place. Him yelling the way he did, scared me. I didn't want to leave her there with him. He said I wasn't respecting her "personal boundary" because I held her and she was believing his stories. I explained what the role of the police was. She gave me a big hug and just sat there holding me.

Dad then "thanked" me for talking with her. I said that was what I was trying to do the night before. He didn't believe me. I told him I repeatedly said I was just there to talk with her. He walked away feeling like I was a nut for saying that. It wasn't a "physical altercation", despite my hands on his ARMS as a means to guide him out. He's blown this scenario completely out of the water.

Now all he talks about since that night, is him feeling REJECTED. That's right. Prior to the incident, I reminded him of a personal boundary. He struggles with boundaries. He took it as a personal rejection and doesn't handle it well. It's why he was unsupportive when he entered the room. It's why he escalated as much as he did. The term "splitting" really does make sense to me.

Now he's all touchy-feely. He cries when I go on a coffee breaks (for 1.5hrs) alone because he says he feels lonely and I'm just trying to get away from him. Um, ya. I'm greatly affected by his actions. My breathing difficulties and cramping have returned. My sleep and eating has been affected.. but all he wants from me is to cuddle and be affectionate. I'm suppose to move forward like a robot and give him what HE needs.

Since covid19, I'm realizing how insecure he is about me doing things apart from him. Unless he has plans with others, then he couldn't care less if I'm on the moon. But it's when he's alone or with the girls, he can't handle it. I need to be accounted for or he feels stressed. He struggles with managing our daughters because all he's thinking about is me, and doing something without him. He gets stuck. I'm trapped.

[Open Eyes]

He sounds more like a child than a healthy adult IMHO.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

He sounds more like a child than a healthy adult IMHO.

Do you really think it's an immaturity thing?

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by MsLady

Do you really think it's an immaturity thing?

His behavior is certainly immature from what you described, but it’s also very abusive and dangerous. These fights are traumatizing for your children who are helpless victims.

His habit of threatening to call the police on you and saying you are assaulting him would be enough to have me figure out how to end this abusive relationship and do what is best for my kids, if this were me. I’d also be very worried about him having even partial custody of the kids without me being there to protect them, too. So, I do understand the incredibly stressful situation you are in.

There is also the point of protective services being called in over the abuse happening in front of the kids.

You know him best. Is he as dangerous as he sounds?

[divine1966]

I personally don’t think he is insecure. He might be but not every insecure person is an abuser, I feel like his insecurity isn’t the cause of these outrageous situations .

I think he is controlling of you and the kids. It could be camouflaged by “I am crying you aren’t home because I love you so much” when in reality he needs you home to care for the children and he is not fond of you having your own life, all signs of control. You really don’t know if he can’t take care of responsibilities because all he thinks is you. When he is about with friends he is ok not thinking of you, he is capable of functioning. Him not taking care of the children is unlikely caused by being preoccupied whth you. He sure says a lot of things. I’d not buy half of it

The scene with your child is very disturbing. Both events involved a young child. it’s very upsetting

Do you intent to stay with him? It will continue causing you health problems and eventually it will cause many many issues for your children, it likely already did. Do you have a plan?

[Rive.]

I am not a lawyer but I would not define that as assault.

He is, however, very sneaky and manipulative.

Worse, his playing games is even affecting the baby and he might end up turning her against you.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by Rive.

I am not a lawyer but I would not define that as assault.

He is, however, very sneaky and manipulative.

Worse, his playing games is even affecting the baby and he might end up turning her against you.

This is how I feel, too. I'm greatly affected by everything. My kids were upset and they both seem fine now. They're not exhibiting any signs of stress. Since that evening, we've both taken measures to keep things positive and normalize things.

The only backup plan I have is to wait for a new unit to open up, as I've been on the internal waitlist for a few years now. I can't afford to do anything else.

I'm unable to return to work until February 2021 now, due to our options regarding medical benefits and lack of childcare.. nor can we afford daycare x2, under our circumstances. Then, I'll have to return full time.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by divine1966

I personally don’t think he is insecure. He might be but not every insecure person is an abuser, I feel like his insecurity isn’t the cause of these outrageous situations .

He's definitely insecure, even without the additional scenarios. He's also competitive with me and has said he thinks people think I'm better than he. It's all in his head .. or he's concerned about how his past behaviours before my time look onnhim beside me.

I think he is controlling of you and the kids. It could be camouflaged by “I am crying you aren’t home because I love you so much” when in reality he needs you home to care for the children and he is not fond of you having your own life, all signs of control.

Two days ago, he was crying before I left the house.. privately in his own room, texting he was feeling emotional. When I take my breaks, he feels rejected. I had mentioned to him that texting me 8 times within my 1.5hr break was excessive and that I needed that time foe me.. that I was having breathing difficulties. He says he wants to be supportive but the feeling of rejection takes a hold of him.

You really don’t know if he can’t take care of responsibilities because all he thinks is you. When he is about with friends he is ok not thinking of you, he is capable of functioning. Him not taking care of the children is unlikely caused by being preoccupied whth you. He sure says a lot of things. I’d not buy half of it.

He didn't say these things. It's my interpretation. For example, he'll text me to come home earlier.. asks me to come inside sooner if I'm in the yard.. texts me how long I'll be.. because he's struggling with our daughter. She's behaving like a typical child for her age, but he can't handle it because I'm out doing something without him. It's the only thing that makes sense to me.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

His behavior is certainly immature from what you described, but it’s also very abusive and dangerous. These fights are traumatizing for your children who are helpless victims.

This is the second time a scenerio like this has played out in front of the kids. It is traumatizing. Immature? I don't know. Unstable, for sure.

His habit of threatening to call the police on you and saying you are assaulting him would be enough to have me figure out how to end this abusive relationship and do what is best for my kids, if this were me.

This is the first time he's threatened to call the police or social services on me. It's why I'm feeling traumatized. It was over the top.. completely blown out of proportion. He was in his head.. in fight/flight mode. He wasn't seeing the situation as it was. This is what scares me.

I’d also be very worried about him having even partial custody of the kids without me being there to protect them, too. So, I do understand the incredibly stressful situation you are in.

He's not physically aggressive. Most of the abuse are covert. I'm more concerned he'll turn the kids against me.

There is also the point of protective services being called in over the abuse happening in front of the kids.

Against a compulsive liar? That would be dangerous for me.

You know him best. Is he as dangerous as he sounds?

The danger lies within the compulsive lying, the manipulations, the campaign smearing, etc.. to convince everyone that the children are best to live with him.

[MsLady]

I know the obvious answer is to leave. Not only would it put me in a financial crises, leaving my home will also affect my employment. There's a lot at stake for me, personally.

He's filed for personal bankruptcy so he can't afford to live on his own, plus maintain payments toward his debts. So if I leave, I don't doubt he'll fight for at least 60% custody so he can claim child support, child tax, and the GST refunds. OF COURSE this scares me! Im very closely bonded to my girls. I've been their primary caregiver. I can't imagine how this would affect them! Dad will brainwash them into thinking he's "protecting" them... because I leaned into him to guide him out the room.

This incident greatly affects my possibility of convincing the court. I think this is why he took this angle. He was upset about me "rejecting" him and so blew this scenario out of proportion. He is supported by his family but they don't know my side on most things.

I really feel trapped and scared. He really taught me that when he's in this state, there's no boundaries or limits as to where he'd take things.

I'm walking on eggshells and will be subjected to giving him the attention and affection to keep the peace. Who cares about how all this has impacted me. He doesn't think about how this can and has impacted our girls. He's just thinking about his own needs.

[*Beth*]

In the state where I live, California, what you did would be considered domestic violence. Children witnessing domestic violence can be removed from the home by CPS.

I was arrested once because of a domestic dispute. I was separated from my husband at the time and living with a guy. We had an argument, I flung out my arm as if to say "Whatever!" When I flung my arm out my nails (which were long at the time) just brushed his shoulder (which was bare). My nails left 2 tiny scratches across his shoulder. Mind, I had no intention of touching him, at all. That my fingers brushed against him was purely accidental.

But the guy started yelling that he was going to call the cops, which he did. They came out quickly, one of them looked at the minuscule scratches on his shoulder. He turned to me where I was sitting in a chair, told me to stand up, and suddenly there were handcuffs on my wrists. It was surreal. Absolutely crazy. It felt like a bad joke.

I ended up spending 24 hours of pure hell in jail. Fortunately, my family came up with $600 to bail me out. Charges were dropped, but I sure learned a lot.

Arguments escalate fast. Things can happen that no one intends. Maybe someone pushes someone, that person loses balance, falls and anything can happen at that point. People have hit their head and died in such a bizarre way.

The cops who come out, even for a minor situation, can be jerks and instead of trying to talk everybody down, instead of giving you referrals to places where you can get help, they decide that somebody (or both of you) will be arrested.

My advice is stop the physical arguments now. Don't "lean against" him. Do not get anywhere within arms' or legs' reach of him. I'm very serious. Because before you know it someone will be injured and there's major trouble then. And expense.

That children witness anything like what you've described is 100% unacceptable. Bear in mind that if there are minors in the home and the cops are called for a domestic altercation the cops are mandated to report to CPS. Once CPS is involved, you have big problems.

Are you in therapy?

Do whatever you need to do before things get worse. If you don't do anything to intervene I can promise you it will get worse. That's a guarantee.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by BethRags

[FONT="Arial"][SIZE="2"][B]

My advice is stop the physical arguments now. Don't "lean against" him. Do not get anywhere within arms' or legs' reach of him. I'm very serious. Because before you know it someone will be injured and there's major trouble then. And expense.

That children witness anything like what you've described is 100% unacceptable. Bear in mind that if there are minors in the home and the cops are called for a domestic altercation the cops are mandated to report to CPS. Once CPS is involved, you have big problems.

Yes, absolutely. Learned my lesson. It was seriously a 2sec physical altercation. He's too strong for me. . but ya, I hear you loud and clear.

I also want to add, no one got hurt. No one got pushed. My intent was not to hurt him. I see your point but where I live, physical assault is when there's INTENT to harm or someone was injured. Neither happened. My daughter was more upset about the latter half of the incident, 20ish min later.

But ya.. lesson learned. What a jerk. We've been together for 6years. He doesn't want me to leave.. but blows this completely out of proportion.

[*Beth*]

Originally Posted by MsLady

Yes, absolutely. Learned my lesson. It was seriously a 2sec physical altercation. He's too strong for me. . but ya, I hear you loud and clear.

I also want to add, no one got hurt. No one got pushed. My intent was not to hurt him. I see your point but where I live, physical assault is when there's INTENT to harm or someone was injured. Neither happened. My daughter was more upset about the latter half of the incident, 20ish min later.

But ya.. lesson learned. What a jerk. We've been together for 6years. He doesn't want me to leave.. but blows this completely out of proportion.

That's legalspeak. If cops come to your house they don't ask jack about "intent." Don't fool yourself. Just a suggestion.

As for children being "okay" after such a frightening situation...take a look around this forum. You will find many adults who seemed to be okay with what went on in their childhood home, but who ended up not being okay, at all. Again...just a reality check.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by BethRags

That's legalspeak. If cops come to your house they don't ask jack about "intent." Don't fool yourself. Just a suggestion.

Ya, I hear you - 100%. I wouldn't want any of that to scare our children, further. My daughter is ok but that's how she's presenting herself. We're not a couple who have screaming matches and physical fights so I don't doubt this was alarming. I find it interesting that she referred to this incident as the "small problem" though. I regret shutting the door in the first place. Had I not done that, none of it would have happened.

He's a trigger for me. I've been working on not allowing myself to be reactive to his antics. I've been trying to disassociate from him and just focus on the girls.

But I'll admit, I've seen some gains from him. He's more respectful and present when we're out in public. He's taken more time to listen. He's working through his DBT workbook, actively.. doing his meditations and deep breathing. So I guess my guard was down. I didn't pick up the "rejection" behaviours earlier in the night.. so when he disregarded what I was doing, it hit a nerve.. so I shut the door.

We're both working on things. Yes, I have been seeing therapists. They've validated all my concerns. My previous one said I have "a lot to be angry about". I've been taking time for myself to decompress.. finding creative outlets.. spending fun times with our daughters or as a family.

We're not in crisis on a weekly basis. When we are, it's behind the scenes. We really are trying to be the best parents to our kids.

I just can't meet his emotional needs. I can't let everything go and trust him like all is well. I keep telling him we're in the healing stages and it'll take time. But once I set a personal boundaries, he becomes emotional. I can't be who he wants me to be in a snap of a finger. I do find him controlling.

[*Beth*]

My thought when I was young was that as we age everything just falls into place. What I didn't realize was that it takes decades of nose-to-the-grindstone hard work to smooth things out, make marriage more than bearable, but actually gratifying. The most important lesson I've learned from marriage - that I try my best to apply to all of life - is not to take anything personally.

It's absolutely fantastic that both of you are putting in a lot of effort toward your marriage and family.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by MsLady

This is the second time a scenerio like this has played out in front of the kids. It is traumatizing. Immature? I don't know. Unstable, for sure.


This is the first time he's threatened to call the police or social services on me. It's why I'm feeling traumatized. It was over the top.. completely blown out of proportion. He was in his head.. in fight/flight mode. He wasn't seeing the situation as it was. This is what scares me.


He's not physically aggressive. Most of the abuse are covert. I'm more concerned he'll turn the kids against me.


Against a compulsive liar? That would be dangerous for me.


The danger lies within the compulsive lying, the manipulations, the campaign smearing, etc.. to convince everyone that the children are best to live with him.

From what you described, it’s obvious that he did not feel like he needed police to protect him from you, rather he threatened to call them just to hurt you. This behavior shows he should not be trusted IMHO.

It sounds like you are living with an abuser and terrified to make any waves out of fear of repercussions to yourself and your daughters. I agree, you have reason to feel like this.

[MsLady]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

From what you described, it’s obvious that he did not feel like he needed police to protect him from you, rather he threatened to call them just to hurt you. This behavior shows he should not be trusted IMHO.

It sounds like you are living with an abuser and terrified to make any waves out of fear of repercussions to yourself and your daughters. I agree, you have reason to feel like this.

Not at all. He's 6ft tall. He claimed he was "protecting" our daughter who was tantruming over a bedtime routine, prior to everything. She was being 3. I was trying to manage her behaviour when he came into the room. It wasn't that I was managing her incorrectly.. it was that he was feeling rejected and didn't care about what I was trying to do to settle her.. nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to her bedtime silliness. It was a simple case of triangulation when he walked in, though, which I was trying to avoid.. hence, me closing the door on him. I get it, I reacted and it shouldn't have happened. It's out of character for me to behave like that.

Had he really thought our daughter was being harmed, he would have stormed in, as any parent would have. At first he told me he came in (calmly) to "help out", knowing she wasn't ready for bed when he dropped her off. He later changed the story to say he came in because I was "hurting" her. It was all bs.. he was feeling rejected.

We usually debrief what's happened, afterwards. I haven't been able to have a conversation with him about it, yet. I'm still dealing with the effects and am more focused on maintaining the normalcy. And again, conversations he's brought up since, has been about rejection.. not "abuse" towards the family.

I'm feeling really down and haven't slept much all week. I told him if he really loved me and wants to have longevity with me and raise our kids together, then there are just things you don't do to someone. There's no limit to what he'll do against me, it feels like now. He's threatened to break up with me 4 times in 2 years.. all because I've addressed a boundary.. total emotional blackmail. He DOES NOT want me to go.

Most of this stuff has happened behind the scenes. Our daughters are pretty happy and well behaved girls. I'm sure they pick up on the energy, though. Dad's really gotta put his cell away, too, when he's in a mood because he shuts everything else out. That's an area I want to address, as well.