[Vindicated17]

What is everyone's thoughts on the Ultimatum of buying a house together? Now my scenario was dated for about 6 months, then introduced each other to each others kids, then I was being pushed for in about a year later for me to sell my house, have her sell her house and then we buy a house all together to live in. I would be hit with being made to feel guilty for being happy the way things were. I mean I was happy to have my own house, space and privacy for my kids and myself and she had the same. To me it was the best of all worlds and no need to rush into anything, and if anything just live this way for many more years until maybe the kids were all teenagers. I was looked down upon for this happiness being told that oh I am just happy the way things are and that I'll never want to buy a home together. It really hurt me because if you love someone and enjoy the life together why would you want to just end things because you cannot obtain a home (an object) together on a set timeline? We still pretty much saw each other every day. Thoughts?

[CANDC]

@Vindicated17 welcome to MSF My Support Forums. I am sorry you are being given ultimatums. I feel similarly to this article that such manipulation is only the tip of the iceberg and if someone caves into this pressure the manipulation will only get worse. These articles go into more detail. Why Ultimatums Are Actually Destructive to Your Relationship

3 Reasons Why Giving An Ultimatum Is The Death Wish To Your Relationship

I am not sure if this applies to your situation, but I saw some similarities
From the Spouse of a Narcissist: Here’s What You Need to Know - Tiny Buddha

@CANDC

[eskielover]

If you are NOT married DON'T buy a house together. First off it is not community property IF you aren't married.

My daughter lost all her inheritance money when she bought a house with her boyfriend. Not long after they bought it, he decided he wanted to leave & forced the sale of the house. Housing market had crashed & obviously with no divorce judge dividing up the property, she got totally screwed. I would NEVER buy a house with anyone I wasn't married to. Complicated things if one dies too. What tldo the kids do with the property they should have inherited. Yiu are just asking for trouble in the future. Would be a foolish choice. Obviously she is only dealing with this on an emotional level instead of on logical legally thought through terms. If you have to, get a good financial advisor to help you put all the legal paperwork together to protect yourself, your kids, & your investment.

This is not about love. This is a business transaction especially not being married

[Rose76]

I agree with posters above. Never try to own property with someone you are not married to. That doesn't go well even when it is a parent and child who co-own . . . or siblings who do it. (I've seen that with people I know very well.)

You make an excellent point, yourself, Vin. You each have young families. The "Brady Bunch" looked great on TV. I promise you that blending two sets of kids under one roof is fraught with HUGE difficulty. Your S.O. and you may love each other. That doesn't mean these kids are all going to even like each other. I betcha there would be way more friction than you can even imagine. Your first obligation is to Your Own kids. If your kids and you are living in a reasonably happy home, I'ld be real slow to disrupt that set up. Your idea about waiting till the kids are older sounded real sensible to me.

I got to wonder why your S.O. is in such a big hurry to want this huge change. Maybe it would be more financially advantageous to her than to you. If the opposite is true, that's no good either. If she sees herself as the senior partner, financially, that can become leverage that she'll use against you down the line.

I'll bet you two don't have identical parenting styles. That will lead to problems. When your kid and her kid don't get along (which will happen,) she's going to blame your kid. You're going to care more about your kids than her kids. (That's called "maternal instinct.") Your responsibility as a mother takes precedence over any relationship reponsibility to an S.O. Don't ruin your kids' lives.

Maybe this relationship with your S.O. will last. Maybe it won't. (Statistics say the odds are that it will eventually fail. I wish you luck.) But you will always be your kids' mom. Do what will best protect their interests. That will end up being what is in your best interests.

I've known some blended families. The ones I knew didn't work out too good at all. The upside was an apparent temporary increase in sexual/intimacy satisfaction. (That can seem important, and it is.) In both blended families that I knew, someone's kid ended up dead - one from a drug OD, the other as a victim of a murder. I couldn't help but wonder if those two deaths might not have happened, if each parent prioritised his/her own kids and respected their partners' obligation to do the same.

[Vindicated17]

Thank you for these links to resources. It turns out that I actually have read these too! I don't know why after learning and reading facts I just can't let things go and keep going back to analyze and ponder. I am no longer with this person anymore but still battle with that ultimatum that was given and realize I should have walked away sooner.

[Vindicated17]

Originally Posted by eskielover

If you are NOT married DON'T buy a house together. First off it is not community property IF you aren't married.

My daughter lost all her inheritance money when she bought a house with her boyfriend. Not long after they bought it, he decided he wanted to leave & forced the sale of the house. Housing market had crashed & obviously with no divorce judge dividing up the property, she got totally screwed. I would NEVER buy a house with anyone I wasn't married to. Complicated things if one dies too. What tldo the kids do with the property they should have inherited. Yiu are just asking for trouble in the future. Would be a foolish choice. Obviously she is only dealing with this on an emotional level instead of on logical legally thought through terms. If you have to, get a good financial advisor to help you put all the legal paperwork together to protect yourself, your kids, & your investment.

This is not about love. This is a business transaction especially not being married

Thank you so much for your time and words and they are both very much appreciated. I never did truly want to commit to owning a home together but I agreed that "one day" it would be nice and that I would let her know when I was ready (if that ever happened) and I would put my house up for sale (all the time knowing I would never be until my kids were older). I look back at things as every now and then she would "check in" so to speak to see if I was still on bored for owning a home together. We had talked about how we would get lawyers involved so that what I put into the home would always be mine and what she put in would be hers should we need to sell it one day. Also, she wanted to pay the mortgage by ratio of wages. So, I said that would be fine, but then I would need my ratio to also be mine upon sale if that ever happened and her ratio to be hers upon sale....get this....she never agreed to that!!!! So, I would be paying more into this asset monthly and yet she would reap the rewards if we ever sold? That made ZERO sense to me!!!

[Vindicated17]

Originally Posted by Rose76

I agree with posters above. Never try to own property with someone you are not married to. That doesn't go well even when it is a parent and child who co-own . . . or siblings who do it. (I've seen that with people I know very well.)

You make an excellent point, yourself, Vin. You each have young families. The "Brady Bunch" looked great on TV. I promise you that blending two sets of kids under one roof is fraught with HUGE difficulty. Your S.O. and you may love each other. That doesn't mean these kids are all going to even like each other. I betcha there would be way more friction than you can even imagine. Your first obligation is to Your Own kids. If your kids and you are living in a reasonably happy home, I'ld be real slow to disrupt that set up. Your idea about waiting till the kids are older sounded real sensible to me.

I got to wonder why your S.O. is in such a big hurry to want this huge change. Maybe it would be more financially advantageous to her than to you. If the opposite is true, that's no good either. If she sees herself as the senior partner, financially, that can become leverage that she'll use against you down the line.

I'll bet you two don't have identical parenting styles. That will lead to problems. When your kid and her kid don't get along (which will happen,) she's going to blame your kid. You're going to care more about your kids than her kids. (That's called "maternal instinct.") Your responsibility as a mother takes precedence over any relationship reponsibility to an S.O. Don't ruin your kids' lives.

Maybe this relationship with your S.O. will last. Maybe it won't. (Statistics say the odds are that it will eventually fail. I wish you luck.) But you will always be your kids' mom. Do what will best protect their interests. That will end up being what is in your best interests.

I've known some blended families. The ones I knew didn't work out too good at all. The upside was an apparent temporary increase in sexual/intimacy satisfaction. (That can seem important, and it is.) In both blended families that I knew, someone's kid ended up dead - one from a drug OD, the other as a victim of a murder. I couldn't help but wonder if those two deaths might not have happened, if each parent prioritised his/her own kids and respected their partners' obligation to do the same.

Thank you very much for your words and time as I very much appreciate it!

FYI - I had ended this relationship about four months ago but I still battle with these thoughts and issues as if it was yesterday. I am still looking to further justify for whatever reason my decision to walk way. My living situation with my kids and my home is just great. She was struggling financially to pay for her mortgage and was not happy with her living situation so the move in together would be benefiting her and not me. Sure it would be nicer to have a bigger home but I was happy with my three bedroom home currently as it fit my own family units needs being a father of two and it is also a newer home.
We defintely do have different parenting styles as our kids have very different personalities. For example yes the first time our kids had a play date at my home her daugther ended up crying and blamed it all 100% on my daughter. I can acknowledge yes that my daughter is very strong willed and can be bossy but on the other hand her daughter has the mentality (clinically diagnosed) of a 7 or 8 year old (Both our daugthers were 10) and her daughter also has no friends and social issues and ADD. Her daugther wasn't getting a turn at that moment of playing a piano so she just sat there alone and cried...again I acknowledge my daughters behaviour of not sharing at that moment but she was totally vilified and made out to be such a terrible kid just because her kid was crying. Her kid has social issues.....Anyhow...I know I made the right decision as putting my kids first means keeping them in our house just the three of us for now at least. I think I dodged a bullet by not selling my house and moving in all together all six of us. She would have been the main beneficiary of that. She would also "check in" every month to see if I was still "on board" of buying a house together which made me feel terrible because if this person truly loved me, they would just walk way because I wouldn't sell my house?

[eskielover]

Wise choice on your part to walk away. Sounds very much like she was using you & your better financial stability. You made wise demands before walking away. Lol....I have found when I make wise demands on people who are doing things mostly for themselves, it is usually cause I am trying to get them to bow out of their thinking & usually the relationship also.

Sadly I had to use ultimatums on my now Ex husband many times cause he was too dense to get what greatly effected my own life. The marriage was doomed from the beginning when that kind of interface happens in communicating.....when I used it, I was basically hoping it would end the marriage

[RoxanneToto]

I’d have to agree it was a good idea to walk, even if it doesn’t feel that way right now.
It might not be the socially acceptable norm, but I have heard of people who got married, carried on living separately in their own houses and they say it helps their relationship. For most people it’s probably not practical even if it crossed their minds, but I think it makes sense and it’s a better arrangement for some. Your plan to wait until kids were older was sensible, even if you’d got married and had a fair financial plan agreed.

[MickeyCheeky]

i agree with the other wise and wonderful posters that you did a wise thing by leaving her if things weren't working out. i think you have every right to make a decision and if she doesn't Accept that then you can either work on some sort of compromise or perhaps it may simply not be worth going forward. Of course decide by yourself how to Proceed. Hopefully things will Improve really soon for everyone. Sending many Safe, warm hugs to BOTH you, @Vindicated17, your Family, your Friends and ALL of your Loved Ones! Keep fighting and keep rocking NO MATTER WHAT HAPPENS, OK?!

[TishaBuv]

“I look back at things as every now and then she would "check in" so to speak to see if I was still on bored for owning a home together. We had talked about how we would get lawyers involved so that what I put into the home would always be mine and what she put in would be hers should we need to sell it one day. Also, she wanted to pay the mortgage by ratio of wages. So, I said that would be fine, but then I would need my ratio to also be mine upon sale if that ever happened and her ratio to be hers upon sale....get this....she never agreed to that!!!! So, I would be paying more into this asset monthly and yet she would reap the rewards if we ever sold? That made ZERO sense to me!!!“

You stated she was having a hard time paying her mortgage, you state she was looking for you to put in more money but she would equally benefit at the sale. Her checking in with you is the tactic of a salesperson trying to close the deal! It sounds like she was somewhat desperate for money for her living situation and you were potentially her solution.

It makes zero sense to you, because you assume her motive is pure love and respect, care for you and your well being. In reality, her motive was her well-being.

When a con is trying to take advantage of you, they will be relentlessly persistent and forceful. They will use every tactic to try to get their way.

Of course, you made the right call to say no and break up. It’s only been a few months since you ended it. It’s understandable for you to reflect. I hope you’ll feel better soon. You dodged a bullet.

[Rose76]

Sorry for my confusion. I thought you were female. Instead, I see you are a father. Still, I would still give the exact same advice.

Sounds like you made a sensible decision.

[Alive99]

Originally Posted by Vindicated17

FYI - I had ended this relationship about four months ago but I still battle with these thoughts and issues as if it was yesterday. I am still looking to further justify for whatever reason my decision to walk way.

After reading this thread of yours and the other one too, I am more and more convinced you've been emotionally gaslighted through various manipulations (like I was too). If you feel the need to endlessly find more justifications about your decision, even though your decision has been based in the facts very much and a very sensible one, then clearly you've been affected on an emotional level even if perhaps subconsciously. Like you mentioned in your other thread, it relates to false narratives too. Let's just call a spade a spade though....those false narratives were lies. I'm sorry. I again wish you luck with figuring out all the gaslight and moving from all of it. You've definitely made the right decision, TishaBuv and everyone else is very right about how she was looking out for her own well-being wayyyy more than yours let alone your kids' well-being.

[poshgirl]

You made the right decision to walk away.

As a female, I am ashamed by how some women behave. I know we have different traits but there seems to be an expectation that guys will do exactly what they want.

It's best to move on and put it down to experience. That's a weak statement I know, because sometimes we need to understand why someone behaved like that. Look at it this way, if you'd bought a house together then she would have found something else she wanted. And the list goes on....

[Rose76]

Here's another thought. What if you moved in together, and she died. Would you be prepared to keep her kids? Could you depend on their biological father to step up? You're a responsible man. You probably have life insurance to protect your kids, if something happened to you. Does she have life insurance? If she became incapacitated and couldn't work, would you be able to afford the mortgage on the new, big house?

Blended families face the same risks that any family faces. One partner can die, or become disabled. One of the children could become sick with a catastrophic illness. Would it be fair to your kids, if one of her kids suddenly needed a great deal of attention. It can be hard enough to love your own kids, as they become teens with bigger problems. Putting up with someone else's kids can be near impossible. You have a bigger income than she has. Would you subsidize the expense of raising her kids, so that all of the children were treated equally? Would that be fair to your children? Then there is the matter of dealing with the non-custodial parents. Will her ex-husband contribute fairly?

These points are all moot now that you've rejected her proposal. I only mention these things to reinforce how thorny a situation it could become and why you do well not to get sucked in.

[Vindicated17]

Originally Posted by Alive99

After reading this thread of yours and the other one too, I am more and more convinced you've been emotionally gaslighted through various manipulations (like I was too). If you feel the need to endlessly find more justifications about your decision, even though your decision has been based in the facts very much and a very sensible one, then clearly you've been affected on an emotional level even if perhaps subconsciously. Like you mentioned in your other thread, it relates to false narratives too. Let's just call a spade a spade though....those false narratives were lies. I'm sorry. I again wish you luck with figuring out all the gaslight and moving from all of it. You've definitely made the right decision, TishaBuv and everyone else is very right about how she was looking out for her own well-being wayyyy more than yours let alone your kids' well-being.

Hello! I very much feel the need to endlessly find more justifications and know I'm emotionally effected by all that went on. I will even just cycle through the same justifications over and over again. I am having a tough time understanding why this is as I have accepted the end of the relationship, I do not want this person back and would have very fierce words for them if I ever saw them again. I just want to move on and be happy. Maybe it's the step of forgiving in order to stop battling with these issues? Maybe I have not forgiven them for all of the mental hurt that I felt and still feel to this very day. They occupy too much of my mental space each day. I don't think I have ever walked away from someone due to these types of issues and rather someone had cheated on me so my brain handled it different. This is by far the most turmoil and pain and struggle post-breakup. I know I did the right thing but all of that logic doesn't seem to coincide with how my heart feels.

[Vindicated17]

Originally Posted by poshgirl

You made the right decision to walk away.

As a female, I am ashamed by how some women behave. I know we have different traits but there seems to be an expectation that guys will do exactly what they want.

It's best to move on and put it down to experience. That's a weak statement I know, because sometimes we need to understand why someone behaved like that. Look at it this way, if you'd bought a house together then she would have found something else she wanted. And the list goes on....

Thank you for your input! I know I have to take responsibility as well as she would check in to see if I still wanted to buy a house together and I would always say that was the goal as it is nice to have a goal. What I should have done was just say no I do not want to buy a house together and have her leave me because of that maybe I wouldn't be going through all of this emotional turmoil. I look back on it and know I should have gotten out sooner rather than later. I am trying my best not to have a jaded view on relationships but have been watching a lot of youtubers and videos about the "Red Pill". I agree yes there would have been something else she wanted after a house. Maybe next was a new vehicle for the family to fit everyone like a van. Then who knows after that. I just want someone to actually love me for me and just be happy with me and not a wanted future object. I want someone to know my worth and know that they are lucky to have me for me and not base it on anything else.

[Vindicated17]

Originally Posted by Rose76

Here's another thought. What if you moved in together, and she died. Would you be prepared to keep her kids? Could you depend on their biological father to step up? You're a responsible man. You probably have life insurance to protect your kids, if something happened to you. Does she have life insurance? If she became incapacitated and couldn't work, would you be able to afford the mortgage on the new, big house?

Blended families face the same risks that any family faces. One partner can die, or become disabled. One of the children could become sick with a catastrophic illness. Would it be fair to your kids, if one of her kids suddenly needed a great deal of attention. It can be hard enough to love your own kids, as they become teens with bigger problems. Putting up with someone else's kids can be near impossible. You have a bigger income than she has. Would you subsidize the expense of raising her kids, so that all of the children were treated equally? Would that be fair to your children? Then there is the matter of dealing with the non-custodial parents. Will her ex-husband contribute fairly?

These points are all moot now that you've rejected her proposal. I only mention these things to reinforce how thorny a situation it could become and why you do well not to get sucked in.

Thank you for your post! If the scenario was that she passed, the father of her kids would take responsibility for sure and they would have just lived with him and I would most likely end up selling the home and down sizing.

Further to this post, about 2 months into the relationship she questioned me on how much money I made...I had told her not a whole lot more than her (which was true at the time). Because I never gave an exact dollar amount she accused me of being "secretive" and that I "hide things"...this pushed some buttons within me for sure as I know my character and I am not someone to hide anything nor be secretive and I basically broke up with her (for a day). This was a red flag I should have seen and just ended things at that time. I never ever after 2.5 years did tell her a dollar amount of my salary that I made because of that incident and my salary did increase by over 30%.

[TishaBuv]

I don’t necessarily see it as she didn’t love you for you or that she was ONLY using you. She could have chosen anyone, but she chose you for a relationship. So, feelings must have been authentic. It isn’t also necessarily a bad thing for her to have pressed the shared home because she needed your financial help, if her feelings for you were genuine. The big red flag IMO is when you chose to use a lawyer to protect all parties and make it fair for each to retain the money they put in. That sounds totally reasonable to a person who does NOT have bad intentions, but her refusal shows bad intent to me.

Unmarried people do buy homes together. The lawyer could have protected everyone, including custody of children and such. This was a legally possible thing to do.

The way she acted toward your child during the conflict with hers was another red flag about things to come.

If you are taking some responsibility for your part of why you didn’t just tell her ‘no’ to the house, maybe you kept it as a ‘someday’ with her because you were enjoying the relationship and wanted to give it more time to see if you started to feel more sure and secure with her…but too many red flags caused you to end it.

If she had been more honest and fair, if her financial woes were a problem, and the relationship was otherwise good, you both may have kept progressing in the relationship.
I’m saying someone ‘loving you for you’ doesn’t mean money will never be a factor at all. Money is a big issue in life! But, honesty and fairness with concern for the best interests for everyone is the critical thing to have in a relationship.

[TishaBuv]

Originally Posted by Vindicated17

Thank you for your post! If the scenario was that she passed, the father of her kids would take responsibility for sure and they would have just lived with him and I would most likely end up selling the home and down sizing.

Further to this post, about 2 months into the relationship she questioned me on how much money I made...I had told her not a whole lot more than her (which was true at the time). Because I never gave an exact dollar amount she accused me of being "secretive" and that I "hide things"...this pushed some buttons within me for sure as I know my character and I am not someone to hide anything nor be secretive and I basically broke up with her (for a day). This was a red flag I should have seen and just ended things at that time. I never ever after 2.5 years did tell her a dollar amount of my salary that I made because of that incident and my salary did increase by over 30%.

“How much money do you make?”, two months in to a relationship is too personal and a nervy question (especially to ask so bluntly). You could have said you don’t want to discuss it at that point. IMO, when you are getting engaged, or going to be filing tax returns together, or making a major purchase together like a house, that question is appropriate and that person will find out anyway through the mortgage or tax papers.

[Fuzzybear]

Originally Posted by CANDC

@Vindicated17 welcome to MSF My Support Forums. I am sorry you are being given ultimatums. I feel similarly to this article that such manipulation is only the tip of the iceberg and if someone caves into this pressure the manipulation will only get worse. These articles go into more detail. Why Ultimatums Are Actually Destructive to Your Relationship

3 Reasons Why Giving An Ultimatum Is The Death Wish To Your Relationship

I am not sure if this applies to your situation, but I saw some similarities
From the Spouse of a Narcissist: Here’s What You Need to Know - Tiny Buddha

@CANDC

Good post.

[Alive99]

Originally Posted by Vindicated17

Thank you for your input! I know I have to take responsibility as well as she would check in to see if I still wanted to buy a house together and I would always say that was the goal as it is nice to have a goal. What I should have done was just say no I do not want to buy a house together and have her leave me because of that maybe I wouldn't be going through all of this emotional turmoil. I look back on it and know I should have gotten out sooner rather than later. I am trying my best not to have a jaded view on relationships but have been watching a lot of youtubers and videos about the "Red Pill". I agree yes there would have been something else she wanted after a house. Maybe next was a new vehicle for the family to fit everyone like a van. Then who knows after that. I just want someone to actually love me for me and just be happy with me and not a wanted future object. I want someone to know my worth and know that they are lucky to have me for me and not base it on anything else.

1. The Red Pill is for guys who allow themselves to go low. It's not just a jaded view on things, it's worse. Don't bother with it. Don't let yourself get that low just because you met one ****** woman. Not all women are like that, luckily.

2. I agree with TishaBuv, it's completely normal to say yes you'd like the house thing too but are not ready yet, but not exclude it either right away. Bet this is one of the things where your gf subtly gaslighted you. Since she likely guilt tripped you about it while ignoring and dismissing your own reality, so you feel the need you have to take responsibility for something you are not actually responsible for.

The example of where she accused you and your character to manipulate information out of you about your money, that's a great giveaway too about her mindset, and yes, an instant red flag. This was a toxic woman, be glad and celebrate that you escaped.

Check out the book by Susan Forward about Emotional blackmail. It may apply to your case.

Originally Posted by Vindicated17

Hello! I very much feel the need to endlessly find more justifications and know I'm emotionally effected by all that went on. I will even just cycle through the same justifications over and over again. I am having a tough time understanding why this is as I have accepted the end of the relationship, I do not want this person back and would have very fierce words for them if I ever saw them again. I just want to move on and be happy. Maybe it's the step of forgiving in order to stop battling with these issues? Maybe I have not forgiven them for all of the mental hurt that I felt and still feel to this very day. They occupy too much of my mental space each day. I don't think I have ever walked away from someone due to these types of issues and rather someone had cheated on me so my brain handled it different. This is by far the most turmoil and pain and struggle post-breakup. I know I did the right thing but all of that logic doesn't seem to coincide with how my heart feels.

Yes, a lot of turmoil and pain ensues when you're in a relationship with an emotionally manipulative person that wants to emotionally control you for their own self-serving goals. That is why your heart is so confused now, too. The book I mention above may help in extricating yourself from the manipulative messages that probably went deep in your subconscious.

[Alive99]

Originally Posted by TishaBuv

I don’t necessarily see it as she didn’t love you for you or that she was ONLY using you. She could have chosen anyone, but she chose you for a relationship. So, feelings must have been authentic. It isn’t also necessarily a bad thing for her to have pressed the shared home because she needed your financial help, if her feelings for you were genuine. The big red flag IMO is when you chose to use a lawyer to protect all parties and make it fair for each to retain the money they put in. That sounds totally reasonable to a person who does NOT have bad intentions, but her refusal shows bad intent to me.

I agree with a lot of your post. Just would like to say, I highly doubt she had many authentic feelings because of how willing she was to do blackmail. Who knows what criteria she used to pick him, it doesn't mean she had real feelings. Maybe she had some, but she had more feelings for other things, unfortunately.

Unmarried people do buy homes together. The lawyer could have protected everyone, including custody of children and such. This was a legally possible thing to do.

The way she acted toward your child during the conflict with hers was another red flag about things to come.

If you are taking some responsibility for your part of why you didn’t just tell her ‘no’ to the house, maybe you kept it as a ‘someday’ with her because you were enjoying the relationship and wanted to give it more time to see if you started to feel more sure and secure with her…but too many red flags caused you to end it.

If she had been more honest and fair, if her financial woes were a problem, and the relationship was otherwise good, you both may have kept progressing in the relationship.
I’m saying someone ‘loving you for you’ doesn’t mean money will never be a factor at all. Money is a big issue in life! But, honesty and fairness with concern for the best interests for everyone is the critical thing to have in a relationship.

For sure good summary and distinctions about the roles love and money play.

[Vindicated17]

Originally Posted by Alive99

2. I agree with TishaBuv, it's completely normal to say yes you'd like the house thing too but are not ready yet, but not exclude it either right away. Bet this is one of the things where your gf subtly gaslighted you. Since she likely guilt tripped you about it while ignoring and dismissing your own reality, so you feel the need you have to take responsibility for something you are not actually responsible for.

The example of where she accused you and your character to manipulate information out of you about your money, that's a great giveaway too about her mindset, and yes, an instant red flag. This was a toxic woman, be glad and celebrate that you escaped.

Check out the book by Susan Forward about Emotional blackmail. It may apply to your case.

Yes, a lot of turmoil and pain ensues when you're in a relationship with an emotionally manipulative person that wants to emotionally control you for their own self-serving goals. That is why your heart is so confused now, too. The book I mention above may help in extricating yourself from the manipulative messages that probably went deep in your subconscious.

Thank you for all of your responses as they are very insightful and mean more than you know and truly hit home. Everything you say makes total sense. I am going to order the E-Book of the book that you mentioned so that I can always have it on my phone as it looks like I could relate well to it.

There was indeed a total "guilt trip" as she would always say things like she feels that she is "invested more" into the relationship than I was. Where in reality we both did the same in terms of pretty much all of our free time, and our kids were involved. She even came to my large family get together at Christmas and my work Christmas party. So, on all fronts there was nothing she was investing in more than myself. She would also say things like she would be "devasted" if we ever broke up while saying I would be just fine so therefore she loved me more than I loved her. She would say sometimes that she would tell her ex spouse (father of her kids) that we were looking at floor plans together for a new home to try and get under his skin. She would put me on this pedestal like I was the greatest thing since sliced bread, convince me I was her best partner she's ever had sexually, compliment me a ton.....then on the other side she would play emotional games. Make me feel that I wasn't putting enough into her and the relationship because I texted her less now over 2.5 years (I got a new job so I was very much busy during the day). She wanted to still be in the honeymoon phase and since my love grew secure, her own insecurities and anxious attachment style projected on me that I was not doing enough.

[eskielover]

Originally Posted by Vindicated17

Thank you for all of your responses as they are very insightful and mean more than you know and truly hit home. Everything you say makes total sense. I am going to order the E-Book of the book that you mentioned so that I can always have it on my phone as it looks like I could relate well to it.

There was indeed a total "guilt trip" as she would always say things like she feels that she is "invested more" into the relationship than I was. Where in reality we both did the same in terms of pretty much all of our free time, and our kids were involved. She even came to my large family get together at Christmas and my work Christmas party. So, on all fronts there was nothing she was investing in more than myself. She would also say things like she would be "devasted" if we ever broke up while saying I would be just fine so therefore she loved me more than I loved her. She would say sometimes that she would tell her ex spouse (father of her kids) that we were looking at floor plans together for a new home to try and get under his skin. She would put me on this pedestal like I was the greatest thing since sliced bread, convince me I was her best partner she's ever had sexually, compliment me a ton.....then on the other side she would play emotional games. Make me feel that I wasn't putting enough into her and the relationship because I texted her less now over 2.5 years (I got a new job so I was very much busy during the day). She wanted to still be in the honeymoon phase and since my love grew secure, her own insecurities and anxious attachment style projected on me that I was not doing enough.

Her personality style was probably one on the reasons why she ended up divorced from the father of her kids.

Sounds like you actually avoided a nightmare relationship in the long run.