[RDMercer]

If you see someone going through a truly difficult time; a health issue, illness of a child, loss of a loved one, and you reach out to them because you feel for them, and they say

"Don't feel sorry for me."

"Don't pity me."

What are you supposed to do?

What does that even mean?

I got this recently when talking to someone and I said, "I know your family got together for Christmas and they excluded you. I've been worried about you and want to make sure you're ok."

The person admitted it was really hard but then said this stuff quite defensively.

Jeez.... I've been through some bad times. I'd have appreciated it if someone saw it and reached out to. I've not forgotten those who did.

Can any of you shed some light on this?

RDMercer

[Molinit]

If someone said that to me, I would first be embarrassed and then I would be upset that they would be so intrusive to say that to me.

You are viewing it as being caring, but just reading it I view it as putting a big spotlight on the fact that my family purposely excluded me from a gathering.

Next time, just leave it as "how are you doing?"

[RollercoasterLover]

You said it already.... its defense. Being vulnerable and having so.eone recognize that vulnerability is terrifying. For whatever reason, the person you were trying to help may have felt afraid. You unexpectedly broke their defenses.

I have ptsd. My therapist put it like this. The trauma lives inside me. I'm its house. Some people will walk by that house and never notice it. Some people will knock on the door. There are some who will break down the door. And a few may try to tear the house down while trauma lives inside. From my perspective, you broke down the door instead of knocking and being let in.
Try a gentler approach. "It must have been difficult for you. We can talk about it if you want to. I'd like to be supportive and help you. You'll need to tell me how I can support you."
Never assume you understand someone else's pain until they explain it to you. Never assume someone is ready to talk about their pain. What works to help you feel better may be overwhelming to someone else.

[Bill3]

Let the other person bring up their pain if/when they are ready.

Don't bring it up first.

"How are you doing", as Molinit suggested above, is a good, caring question. It allows the other person the freedom to give whatever depth of a response that they want to give, and feel safe giving.

[RDMercer]

Ok, but the person in question is my spouse. Who also gets angry at me for not being attuned enough to realize what they're going through.

When I preemptively say, "Look I see what you're going through and see how hard it must be, and it hurts me, and I want to help," I've gotten this reply. For stuff like this or for health issues, or job search or whatever.

Sometimes I get challenged first ("What do you see? What do you know?")

Last night we were talking about the holidays. She said it was good but really hard. I said I wanted it to be good, and I'd been worried about her. "Why?"

"Because I know it was bothering you that your sibling is moving away and they and your parents made Christmas plans that excluded you from being able to take part. I know that hurt."

"Don't pity me. Don't feel sorry for me. It hurts and it sucks but I don't need your pity. Worry about yourself."

So I'm left pretty stumped sometimes.

Thank you both for the insight.

Shining a light or breaking in the door are analogies I can easily visualize.

[Bill3]

That is a rough one, it sounds like you are saying that she expects you to be ultra precise in your response. If you err in one direction you aren't well enough attuned, but if you err in the other direction you are so well attuned as to be painful and you get attacked.

[poshgirl]

Whilst I'm not saying the other posters are wrong, when I read your second one and discovered who you were talking about, Bill3's response seemed the most apt.

We all deal with sympathy, compassion, empathy, etc in different ways. Either as the giver or receiver. Whether we have mental/physical health problems, or not. Whether we are in a close relationship (marriage) or just concerned for a friend.

Perhaps your wife wants to be in control, voice her feelings without being prompted. It's difficult to just keep quiet when you can see/hear that she is hurting. You are walking a very fine line between caring too much and caring too little

[divine1966]

I know you mean well but stuff like this feels patronizing to me . I like to be supported without necessarily verbalizing it in a manner of “oh poor you”.

I had quite a bit of death and illness in my family last few years and what I find supportive and helpful is when my husband gets things done so I don’t have to worry about it. Like if he drives us in the storm to get to the hospital or if he gets the food so we don’t have to cook. Or if he does something fun with me to get my mind of things.

Telling me he is sorry or how it’s so hard for me, wouldn’t be helpful. I find it curious that you don’t know how your wife wants to be supported. How well do you know each other?

[RDMercer]

I've been a one man show for long stretches. Years.

She's gone for months unable to leave the house due to physical and mental illness.

I do home work with kids, make meals, do laundry, earn our income, and have attended all but probably 3 of her doctor appointments in the last 10 years. I've supported her in multiple attempts to get diplomas, including sitting with her to type up her papers.

She's told me she knows I'm always going to look after things. She says she wants emotional support.

To me, saying

"Because I know it was bothering you that your sibling is moving away and they and your parents made Christmas plans that excluded you from being able to take part. I know that hurt"

Isn't saying "Oh poor you."

I haven't been able to find the balance of what to say.

I've received anger, loud anger, for hours, being told I'm emotionally clueless and don't see all she deals with.

When I do voice what I see it can sometimes be countered with defensiveness.

I'll try a softer approach I guess.

[hvert]

Sometimes we can't make people happy no matter what we do. It is really frustrating to live with someone who is provoked by just about anything you say. I am not sure the solution is to keep trying to find that perfect response because it may not exist.

[divine1966]

I see, this is a different situation. I didn’t realize you are the poster with “that” wife. She is something else. So normal advice doesn’t apply here.

Perhaps I’d not be saying “I “know “you feel this or that. I “know” you are hurt”. Maybe you can try to mirror her. Like if she says “I hurt”, then you comment on it. If she doesn’t, then I’d not be saying anything. Less is more in my opinion. My husband in attempts to help sometimes went on and on and it wasn’t helpful.

Well loud anger is a no no. And she should be working on her own papers. Overall I don’t think it matters what you or don’t do. She’d find something to complain about.

[Have Hope]

Originally Posted by RDMercer

Ok, but the person in question is my spouse. Who also gets angry at me for not being attuned enough to realize what they're going through.

When I preemptively say, "Look I see what you're going through and see how hard it must be, and it hurts me, and I want to help," I've gotten this reply. For stuff like this or for health issues, or job search or whatever.

Sometimes I get challenged first ("What do you see? What do you know?")

Last night we were talking about the holidays. She said it was good but really hard. I said I wanted it to be good, and I'd been worried about her. "Why?"

"Because I know it was bothering you that your sibling is moving away and they and your parents made Christmas plans that excluded you from being able to take part. I know that hurt."

"Don't pity me. Don't feel sorry for me. It hurts and it sucks but I don't need your pity. Worry about yourself."

So I'm left pretty stumped sometimes.

Thank you both for the insight.

Shining a light or breaking in the door are analogies I can easily visualize.

To me, your wife is just plain difficult, and you (in her mind) can't do enough or anything correctly (ie, the way she wants it to be).

In one of your last threads, despite how much you had given to her, she still had complaints about you (despite ALL that you had done for her through the years, and despite supporting her through her illness).

Maybe your wife needs to take happiness pills and classes and go to therapy because all she does is unload her misery onto you, making everything YOUR fault. And you do this dance around her, constantly trying to figure it out in order to make her happiest.

Honestly, if my spouse showed such caring sentiments and empathy towards me during the holiday and if I had been in her shoes, I would have appreciated the caring gesture. All you did was show empathy and showed that you care about her well being during a hurtful and difficult time.

I don't think you did a single thing wrong and I don't think you approached this in a patronizing way.

[Rive.]

What are you supposed to do?

I don't know about 'supposed to' but I would not say anything back.

What does that even mean?

It doesn't 'mean' anything apart from highlighting how much pain they are in. Drawing attention to (in the example you gave) being excluded is painful. Sometimes, it can trigger shame for them. Hence, they may 'lash out' rather than feel the pain of this loss or grief or exclusion.

[sarahsweets]

I think you came from a place of kindness and she comes from a place of anger. What would happen if you stopped doing certain things and let her pick up the slack?

[RDMercer]

This has been an interesting year.

I have stopped doing certain things. I've let the chips fall where they may at times. I've pointed out that she can't be angry about mutually exclusive things (we don't have enough money, I'm working too much, we don't have enough one on one time together, kids are struggling with school, and I'm doing too much homework with them).

She heard me on that. She has told me she has been at the end of her rope and wanting to just.... Not exist anymore, sometimes for years at a time. Because of that, whatever stressor was in the moment became an issue.

Things are changing. Me beginning anxiety meds made a difference, because I just quit worrying as much about getting everything right.

I'm OK with constructive criticism.... I hear what people are saying here. I was too blunt with things I said to her when I voiced concern this week about how she was doing.

The other thing is also true; I can express emotion or empathy, and get questioned why am I saying or feeling those things ("Why are you saying that? Why are you worried about me?) If I elaborate why, then I may receive some anger for saying something that is hurtful. ("Why would you even say that/ Why would you even point out that stuff? Don't feel sorry for me.")

If I say nothing I may be regarded as "not getting it" or not seeing all she is going through.

This IS happening less. I am accepting less of this behavior. This is improving. I am hopeful it will improve further.

She's a good person. She is a deeply empathetic person. She also meets the criteria for a highly sensitive person, and struggles with depression. A person can have depression, and also have it exacerbated greatly by things outside their control. She has been hurt by things outside her control as well.

I get things wrong. I say the wrong thing. I have put up pretty strong boundaries at times. I know I've done things that caused problems between us.

Thanks for the support. Honestly, your validation this past year or more has helped me develop enough self esteem to put up some boundaries. What I don't want is to blame her for everything either. I want to have faith that she is trying.

[RollercoasterLover]

I don't know if this will help. I can only tell you about my personal experiences. Do you ask your wife why often? It seems she uses the word why when talking to you. The question why is often perceived as a challenge. It's a communication misinterpretation. For many people struggling with trauma and anger, being asked why can cause conflict, as if whatever is "wrong" with us is causing all manner of problems. The conflict can put us on automatic defense for the long term.
My ptsd therapist taught me to not ask myself why when I struggled to understand my anger. She taught me to ask myself "what reason I feel anger" instead. The psychological difference between why (aka constantly blaming myself) and what reason (aka discovering what triggered my anger and ptsd) has been a major step in my own healing.
I don't think you have anything to lose by asking the reason for something instead of asking why. Isn't that what you want to know anyway... the reason?
I hope you and your family can find peace and happiness.

[AzulOscuro]

I can’t believe what I have read from other posters.
You are being helpful. I don’t see any bad in your words.
She is not ready to be helped. That’s all. She either consider it a weakness from her part (something she will have to work on, if she wants) or doesn’t want you to suffer.

[rdgrad15]

Originally Posted by RDMercer

If you see someone going through a truly difficult time; a health issue, illness of a child, loss of a loved one, and you reach out to them because you feel for them, and they say

"Don't feel sorry for me."

"Don't pity me."

What are you supposed to do?

What does that even mean?

I got this recently when talking to someone and I said, "I know your family got together for Christmas and they excluded you. I've been worried about you and want to make sure you're ok."

The person admitted it was really hard but then said this stuff quite defensively.

Jeez.... I've been through some bad times. I'd have appreciated it if someone saw it and reached out to. I've not forgotten those who did.

Can any of you shed some light on this?

RDMercer

You probably didn’t mean to, but it’s likely that you accidentally came off as condescending. No one likes being pitied as if they’re a child, I’ve politely turned people away for that. In fact, that plays a big part in why I’m reluctant to tell friends personal stuff since I don’t want the pity and want to be treated normally. I’m sure your intentions were good and caring, but next time it may be best to just ask how you are in a better way.