Why did this rock star harass me?

I called his behavior rational. If he believed the Jesyka was a groupie based on the fact that she alone showed up with the group before the show, possibly signaling to the rock star that she had a crush on him, and, if groupies in general enjoy overt sexual gestures, he might have behaved the way he did, not (only) for laughs, but as being positively inclined towards Jesyka, although not to the point of showing a genuine interest in her. If this is expected in his social circle in this sort of setting, his behavior was rational.

Say, I go to classical music concerts. If it is unheard of for a famous, or not so famous, conductor or pianist to make this gesture to a woman in the audience. Had anyone done it, their career would have been finished right there and then. But no one does. They are not crazy.

Contextually, as has been discussed here, rock concerts are different. Rock concerts are profoundly from distinct classical music concerts, in that respect and what is customary, this sort of gesturing, which on this thread has been described both as raunchy and as crude, might be wildly different. Had I been the object of such gesturing if, for a change, had not only gone to a rock concert but also approached the band before the show being the only woman to approach it, I would have treated it as an anthropologist, concluding, at least with a significant non-zero probability, that I might have encountered a local custom unknown to me before. That in the long past I was twice sexually assaulted does not change how I would have responded. I would not have frozen. But also, assuming I did not actually like the gesturing, I would not have later gone to the group after the show.

Note that this hypothetical is not watertight since I have never had a crush on a celebrity. I have actually never had a crush on anyone: all my (not so many of them) loves were loves, not crushes. I had a close girlfriend who apparently had a crush on Viktor Tsoi - Wikipedia, a musician whose early accidental death only fueled his popularity. I also later in life happened to see the bedrooms of teenage daughters of acquaintances in their houses and the bedrooms were plastered with posters of pop stars (I did not pay attention, male or female or both). But I somehow missed that developmental stage of having a crush on a celebrity musician, if indeed this IS a developmental stage. Regarding adult women having crushes on celebrity musicians, this thread is the first I am encountering it, but then again I am not informed or experienced, so the fact that I have not encountered it does not mean anything. My point is that I have never had such a crush and I would not have signaled to a musician that I had that non-existent crush on him, plus I do not drink much less mix alcohol with benzos (I can only imagine the behaviors that might result from that), so I cannot place myself in Jesyka's shoes.

We do not have groupies on this thread. We do not really know what they enjoy or expect. We do not have real stakeholders voice their opinions. So we do not have the relevant testimony about the local custom. We have not heard it.

Speaking of local custom, I still would like to believe, thinking back to my girlfriend's crush Victor Tsoi, whose music I sort of came to like later but not to the point of listening to it a lot, that he would have never made such a vulgar gesture of thrusting his pelvis towards a woman. I am sure that had he or anyone done it towards my girlfriend, she would have been appalled. But being appalled and falsely accusing an innocent person of the crime of assault are two very different things.

To practical points, I agree that not ever going to concerts alone is an extreme response for Jesyka. It is enough not to drink, not to mix alcohol with benzos, in terms of assuring a positive experience for herself. Also, if Jesyka were to change genres, I personally can guarantee that at classical musical concerts in San Jose there is no vulgar gesturing and I am sure that other posters can contribute their suggestions of music genres where at concerts there is no vulgar gesturing. But she likes what she likes, she likes the kind of music she enjoys, and should continue going to concerts if they are affordable for her, taking the basic precautions. Lastly, probabilistically if she has gone many times and this gesturing occurred only once, what are the chances of it occurring again? To repeat, I do not know how common this raunchy gesturing is. I imagine that this might depend on the content of the lyrics. I have heard that there are many songs with sexually explicit lyrics. That was not at all the case with Victor Tsoi, which is another reason I would like to believe that he would have never made such a vulgar gesture.

My daughter had posters of Kurt Cobain and David Bowie on the walls and one on the ceiling. Ha She also had t shirts with Bowie stuff on it. Most of his stuff she bought at his concert that she was lucky to attend thanks to her mom LOL

I dated this one guy who saw her posters and said i shouldn’t allow her to have Cobains stuff because he is bad role model for teenage girls. What a jerk. She didn’t have his poster because he was her role model!

I don’t know if it’s always a crush either, crush implies that it’s romantic, sometimes it’s just something else, like just being a big fan. But yes it’s somewhat developmental. Very common amongst teenagers to be totally fascinated and often enamored with celebrities, especially actors and musicians.

No comment on the original poster's incident. What happened, happened. There's no going back. Only those that were there know their own intentions.

What I will address are a lot of other posters saying this kind of behavior from "rock stars" is "normal" or expected. I think some of that is true.... to a degree, depending on the act. I just want to separate those "rock stars" to REAL rock stars.

I have posted before how AC/DC and Rush are my two favorite bands. They are wildly popular and successful and I have seen both in concert many times. Not once did I ever see Brian Johnson or Geddy Lee resort to such childish tactics to swoon the ladies. Why? They don't need to (plus they're both happily married). They make / made their living by using their actual talent and that's why they sold out arenas, stadiums, and venues for decades. I could go on forever about how great those two bands are but I'd break the Internet nor do I want to hijack the discussion.

My point is is if you go to a performance and the singer / band member, etc. does these corny moves, ask for refund because you're seeing a bunch of talentless clowns.

/We do not have groupies on this thread. We do not really know what they enjoy or expect. We do not have real stakeholders voice their opinions. So we do not have the relevant testimony about the local custom. We have not heard it.

^ I wouldn’t say I was ever a groupie, but do have experience in this.

Generally, the term groupie implies someone who hooks up with members of a band. The classic image of it is they go backstage during the concert where they meet the band and have sex with them.

It’s depicted a lot in movies, and it does happen IRL. It’s definitely a thing everyone in the modern music performance world knows is done. It’s even done on a smaller level with not famous bands.

The term “fan” is someone with a crush on a celebrity or someone who passionately likes them. It doesn’t imply having sex with them, like “groupie”.

This was a good, interesting thread. So much was discussed about communication and non-verbal cues, interpretations….

I don’t know, Jeskya, if you feel overwhelmed, dismissed all the feedback, or will process it. It’s worth really giving thought to all the comments made here since you have felt badly about this for a long time and likely will continue to.

Good points. I don’t think it’s normal or expected but rather that it happens a lot. It’s not extremely unusual and isn’t something they do because they are enamored with strangers or want sexual favors, it’s part of their performance. Gross? Yes. But does it mean it never happens? No

Oh I doubt he was the actual star. Small club with people coming so close up to the stage he could pour water on them? No way no how

I can speak to the culture of live music, not in the OP's geo area specifically, but enough and all over the country that I can speak to this. I see live music frequently, and have for the last 30+ years, in small venues , bars, and stadium venues. I have never seen a musician behave that way towards an audience member. I have witnessed audience members, females, dancing in riske ways and in ways that invite male attention, but I have never witnessed a musician behaving this way.

I agree that this was not an assault. But the OP has had multiple traumatic experiences.

I think the combination of approaching the band before the show and dancing alone up front gave a certain impression: groupie. Perhaps this musician treats all groupies this way, and perhaps that's his way of flirting, who knows. We can only speculate on why he behaved this way.

Also this musician is simply that, a band member. I recall in the thread that the description of this venue is that it was small. So, is this musician truly a "rock star" or celebrity, or simply a local band member who is known in the local music community?

Either way, and I digress. @jesyka, it seems you have learned something valuable from this experience. No, you are not to blame for what happened, but you did remain standing there after he had thrusted his groin at you, indicating that this was Ok with you. I understand freezing and not knowing how to respond in the moment. That can happen to anyone. But you learned that going to a club alone as a female invites a certain kind of impression, and typically it's assumed that you might be there to try and hook up. This assumption can be completely wrong, but that might be the impression that it gives off.

This musician's behavior is not typical. I've never seen a musician throw water on the audience, let alone on a female. That's odd, so is thrusting his groin at her. Not typical. But maybe it's typical for HIM, for this specific genre of music, or is common at this particular club/music venue. Who knows?

As for processing it, I think the one positive to take away is the lesson learned. Be more cautious when going out by yourself and understand and be aware of the impression it can make on others.

The past cannot be changed, we can only change ourselves and our behaviors based on lessons learned. To ruminate on this incident is not very productive. I think if there's a history of bullying and actual assaults, then that should be addressed with a therapist. We are not qualified on here to help in breaking more deeply rooted patterns. That's a therapist's job. We can offer compassion and understanding, along with our perspectives and opinions. But @jesyka, if you want to get to the bottom of this pattern in your life, I suggest working it through with your therapist. A pattern can certainly create repeated trauma, and trauma needs to be dealt with by a professional.

Like you, I have been to several concerts and have seen some interesting things. I have never seen a musician throw liquid at the audience but the below clip shows an idiot throwing a beer at Angus Young. How Angus handles it is perfect. He humiliates the fan, gets him tossed, takes a bow, then continues playing. And all this is happening while his brother Malcolm keeps playing. Complete boss move. I love these guys if you couldn't tell.

Marilyn Manson drank most of a plastic water bottle and threw it into the audience. I caught it!

I’ve seen performers doing sexual movements on stage, not directed at an audience member. The audience may be doing sexual things with each other. Lynnard Skynnard show had the wildest audience ever, not stopped by security for sexual behavior.

I got the impression this was a club and a minor famous performer. I’ve seen burlesque shows where the performers single out an audience member and do sexual things to them.

Yes, when I saw fringe bands in small clubs, there were moments on stage that got personal with audience members, sexually or arguing/ heckling.

She said it was a small club. I'm assuming this musician is more of a local musician vs. a national well-known rock star. Larger well-known bands and musicians do not play in small clubs.

I've also been to a lot of gigs and while I've never seen anyone act like that towards a specific audience member, I did once get someone's crotch unintentionally almost pushed in my face. (This guy would always come closer to the audience and step onto the barricade during one particular song. Usually that would put his stomach at eye height for the audience but at this venue I guess the step on the barricade was a little higher and I got a different body part in my face Also the room was packed so I couldn't step or lean very far back.) Granted it was a different situation because it wasn't intentional - they guy was looking over my head, waving to the people in the back - but in the moment I was a bit uncomfortable. Now afterwards I can laugh about it.
And honestly if a musician did that from the stage to me on purpose, I'd probably just laugh at it as well.

Maybe what you should be analysing instead of "why do these things happen to me" is how your attitude to these events is serving you in life. Is it really helpful to you to still be this obsessed about a situation in the past? And expecting people to ask if you're okay and the musician to apologize and getting upset if that doesn't happen - is that serving any purpose for you? Wouldn't you feel better if you just shrugged things off and tried to move on? You can't expect the entire world to cater to your sensibilities. People are gonna act in ways you don't like, but dwellling on these things will only get you angry and bitter
Is that how you want to be?

I’m also curious @jesyka, it seems like this was some years ago. Immediately after and in days and weeks afterwards did you have the opportunity to talk over what happened with anyone?

I like Kurt Cobain & David Bowie too. You took your
daughter to concerts? Wow, you’re a cool mom!

Some people are pretty judgemental. Kurt wasn’t a bad role model. He actually had respect for women & gay people. He was a troubled guy, but not a jerk it seems like.

As for crushes, adults can get & do have them on musicians. I don’t understand why some people are acting like this is unusual for me to have one as an adult.

When David Bowie was performing in my city I bought her a ticket and she went with a girlfriend. I think it was a birthday gift from me because it was awfully expensive. It was in 2004.

Oh yeah that guy meant he wasn’t a good role model because Cobain did drugs. Just because a teen listening to music of someone who did drugs, which is sadly many do in music industry, it doesn’t mean they are going to start drugs too. That guy was a weirdo. I stoped dating him shortly after

I don’t think it’s unusual to be a fan of a particular artist. Maybe actual crushes is something more like young people thing. I have a friend/coworker who’ve been to probably every single concert of Bon Jovi. Huge fan. She used to travel to concerts all over the US anywhere he performed. I didn’t think it’s weird.

I think being a huge fan is perfectly fine but maybe just the way you went about it is a bit unusual for an adult woman.

Yes, I fid mention this to a few friends. They thought it was funny & that I’m crazy as they could never do these things, lol.

But they were shocked too & they felt bad for me. One lady said that they’re to big for their britches. They all said sorry to hear that happened to you & that he was a rude jerk.

Hey jesyka. I just wanted to say I'm really sorry you've had to deal with these negativities in your life. I don't blame you for feeling targeted. It's a natural reaction to such things.

As an appreciater of the sphere of Rock n roll I have seen some wild carrying ons by some artists. It's the rock n roll party vibe. Some quite dangerous things too, I might add. So just on that count, in terms only of water throwing, I've seen them do that many times and it's usually if it is very hot at the venue like summertime. It's a gesture to help cool off the fans I believe.

That's all I can add.🙏

Oh wow no one thought that maybe it was done tk cool people off?

I am very sorry your mom didn’t do nice things. I am sure it effected you in many ways. I am far from perfect but not doing nice things for kids (within financial limits) is extreme. Very sorry

I think there is a difference between being a fan and having actual crush. I can’t imagine acting like I have a crush on a rock musician plus I’d be probably scared to run into people I know lol I’d not want people to see me intoxicated on pills and alcohol and trying to talk to a musician and being mistaken for a prostitute. I think at some point we are too old for that. Plus nowadays everyone ends up being filmed and on you tube or social media. And it’s forever there. I don’t censor myself in what I do in my free time but there are some limitations.

I don’t care what kind of fascination I have with rock star (if I had one) it’s not worth it for me. My friend who’s obsessed with Bon Jovi is just going to concerts. Not doing anything risky. That’s why I thought it’s unusual the way you go about it.

Hey jesyka. I just wanted to say I'm really sorry you've had to deal with these negativities in your life. I don't blame you for feeling targeted. It's a natural reaction to such things.

As an appreciater of the sphere of Rock n roll I have seen some wild carrying ons by some artists. It's the rock n roll party vibe. Some quite dangerous things too, I might add. So just on that count, in terms only of water throwing, I've seen them do that many times and it's usually if it is very hot at the venue like summertime. It's a gesture to help cool off the fans I believe.

That's all I can add.🙏

Yeah, absolutely. I've seen them or the roadies go along the front of the stage throwing entire buckets of water on the front rows, for that reason. And you can hear the crowd erupt into applause waving their hands etc. I've been to many live performances in big and small venues and boy, it really does get hot! And you do see the raunchy behaviour by some too, you know. Both male and female performers. But they have to watch their step they don't get too carried away.

Red Hot Chilli Peppers, for example, were famous for performing onstage entirely naked wearing only a sock on their privates(!) Party boys. And great musos