Help me to understand my fiance

My fiance David and I are going thru a separation right now and I'm confused why. He's a 37 year old Veteran. He was in Force Recon and he had to do some nasty things while serving under that unit. He's only told me alittle and wont tell me the rest. He's very anger and he seems like he can shut off his emotions like a switch. He's bipolar, clinically depressed, and has PTSD. With all these diagnoses, I still love him because that doesnt describe David. But recently, he's hot and cold. He was recently denied for all of his disabilities from the Federal level down. I told him I would be there for him thru this and if there was anyway I can help I would. But he got cold - he says he loves me and is in love with me and wants to spend the rest of his life with me. He doesnt take off his ring that he brought for us and I just remember the vow he wanted to make over the Torah pledging our love to each other. He tells that I'm his God-sent love. And next he says I'll do my thing and you'll do your thing and when I feel better we'll continue. I feel shut out and I found out he was talking to people online and actually told me his psychiatrist told him that it's better to talk to strangers than your loved ones. I looked at his profile online and noted that the pics he posted are of him when he was younger and now wondering is what he is doing to put up false image of himself and wants to have a pity party and not face the anger and what's going on in reality. Upon of it all, he lives with his parents who fight every other week. So with all of this he's hot and cold and I've tried to reach out to him and tell how I feel but he just gets defensive and says mean things. I've mentioned couple counseling and he just changes the subject. I basically told him - I feel like he's deployed and that's he's shutting me out. I'm trying to understand - I'm 33 and I'm a full time worker and grad student and I recently started therapy because I thought it was all my fault per David's words and that I'm sick because I felt overwhelmed with all that's going on with us and my lifeload. My therapist has told after several sessions that I'm not "sick" but it's good that I'm unloading all of my load instead of keeping it in. What do I do? How can i reach out to David? How can we heal together?

You're carrying a heavy load right now. Since he's seeing a psych right now, I might wait awhile to see if that helps him. It was absolutely correct for your to seek help for yourself and I'm glad that you've been assured that this isn't your fault. If you live in a big city, ask your therapist if there are support groups for veterans....I just wish you the best of luck and I will keep you in my prayers......Pat

Thanks for the kind words, Pat. He wont go the support groups because he says he's tired of hearing the others veterans whine and complain. I kept my mouth shut when he said it. He only sees his doctor every 3 to 6 mths if the VA is not cancelling his appts which adds to my worries. I'm worried I'm losing him to his mental state. Please keep me in your prayers because its my faith that holding me up right now. Thank you again.

(((((((((((((( niccpa )))))))))))))))

welcome to the forums! i'm so sorry to read what you're going through. I don't think seeing a p'doc every three to six months is enough of what hubby needs. Have you tried to contact your local community mental health center? they charge based on income...if no income, no charge, etc. They have some really good therapists on board at most of them. It may help for him to have someone to talk with regularly?

I know you mentioned couples counselling to him. even if he won't go, you could begin...just to get help for yourself with what you're going through right now.

I understand PTSD so much. My father was a 23 yr. marine. He has PTSD from Viet Nam. Now, many years later, our entire family has been dx'ed with PTSD. Your husband can heal, although it may time time. I would strongly suggest that he get into some talk therapy though. It's literally saved my quality of life. I've learned so much about myself and my reactions to life and ppl based on what traumas have occurred in my life. I hope David will do that for himself. PTSD is so much better understood than it used to be.

Also, having the backup of a therapist at a community mental health center would really help his issues with getting disability! He would have a higher chance. I received disability on the first try after attending mine.

I wish you so well. this post hit home for me.

be safe and let us know how you're doing?

kimmydawn

I'll try to mention it to David but lately any suggestion is met by negativity. That's how I met my therapist - I called her office looking for couple counseling and after the separation - she offered her services because I answered the phone crying. I'm between anger and frustation and sadness because I'm shut out. He needs to have weekly sessions with his doctor. One day after our separation, he stop taking all of his meds "just because he wanted to feel what it was like" and two days later was drinking excessively and he's telling me over the phone like it was nothing. he went back on his meds but it seems he doesnt care that this is hurting me and pushing me away. I dont know if that's his intention or is it the PTSD bipolar depression. He still tells me he loves me and misses you - however if I start talking about us and going to couseling and reconciling - his response is so cool - "this conversation is draining me". The time apart is hard he agrees but when he says doing each other's own things and then bam miraculously come back together with barely any communication. it's all so overwhelming and heart wrenching. I'm just so tired and worndown!

In a way, yes... it is easier to talk to people that are not involved in your situation than is it to talk with people who are emotionally biased. One of the reasons is to get a fresh angle, right? Like you're doing here. Another reason is, he probably doesn't want to feel like he is burdening you with information, or wants to keep his illness out of your relationship. I feel the same way in a relationship, I know that the depression is not really ME, nor is the mania, nor is the hallucinations, etc. I don't really want to share that with a partner, because I don't feel like that's who I am. It sounds like he loves you, and you obviously love him. Give him some time. it sounds like he's going through a lot of stress right now. You want to know what's going on in his head, because you love him. Have you told him that it's hard for you to just stand by and watch him go through this, and YOU would feel better if he could talk to you about it? Maybe if he recognizes the pain that is causing you, he will open up a bit, or at least tell you his reasons for not confiding right now.
You certainly shouldn't feel guilty for needing to unload, or feeling overwhelmed. I don't know why he would say that to you, it's not a very caring thing to say.
He is not treating you very well right now. Are you sure you want to put your self through this? I know you really care about him, but he seems unwilling to help him self right now, and you can't really help him in that state. Maybe if you back off, he'll realize what he's missing, and that he's made a mistake. Sometimes people need a little wake up call like that. All this time it seems you've been chasing him. Give him a chance to chase you, and you'll get your answer.

You know what you're right. I'm going to try not call him. It's so hard but I'm going to try. It's been an one-sided effort and I guess I need to retreat. Thank you

I'm so sorry this has happened to both of you! Sigh. I, too, suffer from PTSD from a disabling accident 18 years ago. I "lost" all my friends and family in that process... and I can't blame them, but only now am I learning not to blame myself: it is the nature of the "beast" = PTSD.

He will never be the same. But then, are any of us as time goes on? I'm sorry you love him so much. But I am also thinking you are such a good friend for him, and he needs you, but it may be a very long time before he can respond like he used to.

You need counseling with professionals who are experts in PTSD!!! It is very difficult to understand, and often "regular" care providers don't get it either. My T tells me that he counsels with family of PTSD sufferers, the family SEES and LIVES with what that person is experiencing, my T explains to them and they still don't "get it."

It's good you're in therapy, for you. You need to be able to be secure in yourself, being your own person and not "needing" someone else to make you complete. That might help you stay in this relationship, should you choose and be able to.

He may very well need to hire a lawyer for disability... few ppl are allowed the first time they apply. The only good news is that once it is approved, the monies are retroactive to the date he first applied.

I feel your pain, and his through you.

Sometimes it is so much easier to talk to strangers than others. You don't feel the need to watch what you say, nor do you feel you'll be judged. His younger pictures may be a way for him to protect his image, for if he's being truly honest, perhaps he's not ready to reveal himself.

I kind of dealt with something like this recently, and lord knows, it's not easy, but dealing with psychological issues is never an easy thing. Especially for men. Men do not like to feel "broken" and they do not like to ask for help. He may have been raised in a home where he was taught that it was his job to be the strong person in the home - the breadwinner. If he's dealing with these issues right now, then he can't be the strong one and he can't provide for you. So, this time is allowing him to get better so he can be the man he believes he needs to be. I know it's difficult, and it's admirable you want to remain by his side and help him, however, some men do not like help, and chose to work things out on their own. If your fiance is one of these men, this is going to be something you will always deal with when you deal with him. Keep in mind, men are not always aware of how they feel like us women are. Not only that, men do have difficult time admitting their negative feelings. Perhaps talking about your life together right now may make him feel as though he's let you down. I know it's hard and is wearing you down, but maybe instead of mentioning what is going on with your relationship, try telling him how proud you are of him for getting help and really just try to encourage him. Maybe if he feels as though he's making your proud, he'll be more open to you and be willing to talk.

I know this isn't easy...but sometimes us women forget that men are truly different beings that us. For a women, it's ok for us to ask for help or not be on top of our game, but for a man to deal with that same problem, he can feel weak and less than a man...which can really affect him.

*note - I don't mean to overgeneralize men and women...I was just trying to make a point - I know we're all different individuals!*

Welcome to the forums ((((((((((niccpa)))))))))))

I have zero understanding of what you are going through. There are many more knowledgable comments already. This is a caring, loving group of people, and I know that you can find support here on the forums.

Best wishes for you and fiance to come through thing together. It is a shame what war does to people.

Chloe, I came back to this forum today with one object --- to post about how some people aren't ready for a relationship when they don't have their own act together. For them it is humiliating to be in that condition. In THIS particular case, there is the extreme of a military man having no means to support himself, being reduced to living with his parents. If I were this person, no way could I have a relationship with someone (especially not a very together person who can handle both full-time work and graduate studies) until I took a vacation from the relationship and took care of my own business. At the present, the power dynamic between parents and son is inappropriate. So is the power dynamic of the relationship Niccpa is trying to have with her fiance. At least roughly, there has to be something like a peer relationship for it to work. And there's no way to know how long it may take him to work his way back to feeling confident.

Niccpa, I don't know how to say this exactly. In my humble opinion, a grown man, no matter what his problems, doesn't need advice unless he asks for it. You are clearly a strong person. And Nature abhors a vacuum. That is, when your fiancee is not strongly on his own path, your own strength starts to fill that vacuum. And that becomes an imbalance. So what I was trying to say is that a balance of power is always necessary in a relationship.

So, even if there were a balance of power, there is the matter of not invading another person's SPACE. Think of an imaginary line between you. If you go beyond that line, either mentally or physically, you are in his territory --- and one just doesn't do that without permission. People who are DOWN are very vulnerable. Your fiance doesn't even have a place where he can be alone and do exactly as he pleases. I feel that such a person needs to be given a great deal of respect and space, especially in the area of NOT having somebody trying to "fix" him. I understand your hurt feelings, and I realize you love him. I feel that respect is the form of love that he might need most, right now.

Niccpa, these are only my opinions. I have been very down myself in the past, however, and that is how I felt.

Chloe, you did a wonderful job of expressing the heart of what I wanted to say. Thank you.

I'm not trying to fix David in no way. I want to understand what's going on in his world so I can be compassionate and not harsh to judge or even made the wrong step to set off a trigger. I have no understanding and with a sudden shut-out, how could I? The only person that can fix David is himself with the help of his doctors but only if he wants to. I just want to be supportive, and I'm doin it from afar. To gain understanding and lacking ignorance to the problem is one option of helping loved one. As for the power dynamic - there's no application here - to see a relationship in such a matter is more cynical and sterile - lacks emotion and that's the problem today. Care to elaborate how I am a "not together person who's working full time and going to graduate school"?

Interesting posting - a little off because you're only reading a synposis. Here are some clarifications - David is not stuck in his environment - he has his escapes - if he wants to get away - he goes fishing for hours or goes upstate camping. He leaves to visit his old buddies. He's not like he's stuck in his environment however the govt is overwhelming him with forms on a daily basis and adds to the frustation, but like he said - he has all the time in the world to fill out every form.
As for crossing that imaginary line - I have not crossed that line per David's words because I respect and love him not to do that. I will not invade his space unless he wants me to be there. You must understand that the shut-out happened within 24 hours after he received a 30-page denial letter and a denial letter from Allsup (all in one day). It was all a shock to me - one day we're fine and next - he shuts me out. Yes it did hurt however I got up and I'm standing on my feet.
All David wants is the recognition from the US govt that he served and he was injured during and from his service and he's very hostile and angry at how he's being treated and feels helpless. Him not being to work because every Federal job he's applied for - they've denied him frustates him more because they're denying because of his pending disabilbity. With each denial, all I could tell him was dont act on their level - he's above and beyond the VA and continue to fight. And on other point of our relationship - I fell in love with david for him - I knew about his living arrangements and everything else and I didnt fault him for it. A relationship should be based not primarily of things and power - you come together to be there for each other throughout life. It's not a corporate merger or acquistion or government- it's two homo sapiens loving and supporting each other. There's nothing wrong with asking loved one to lean on your shoulder once in a while. Frankly, your opinion stated is why the divorce rate is increasing because most are viewing relationships and marriage as the corporate world and approach them as a struggle of power once they are married or together. One should not view a relationship in that manner and if your spouse or loved one doesnt have the strength to pull through - you offer theirs. Drawn from the military sense of brotherhood, if your comrade is injured, you go back to get him and you sometimes have to be their body because of their injuries. Though I am not in military, I share the same value whether it be my loved one or someone else. Furthermore, David's grandparents' marriage was not power struggle nor a vaccum and his grandpa was a POW in WWII and not once did his spouse take a vacation from their relationship (she fell in love with the person he was despite his mental and physical injuries) because he couldnt work and he too had PTSD and fought to get his disability. We had a conversation over Thanksgiving where she said she loved her husband despite it all and I said to her - as I do with your grandson. I understand that love doesnt conquer the demons but to know that there's that one person who loves you for who you are - no matter what you've done, how many diagnoses you have, your financial status - they love you for YOU... They dont judge you or run from the door when problems arise. I view David's grandparents' marriage as a marriage I would love to have. I have all the patience in the world to wait for David to regain his confidence because my life will still continue and move forward in the meantime.
Looking back - my hurt was a cloud for me however it was for a moment. My viewpoint was foggy and I felt alittle lost and was reaching frantically for answers but now I've realized that I have to stay strong, continue my goals, and be whatever support David wants at this time. Yes it hurts to be apart but the bond is still there and we know where we stand with each other.
So that's how I view my circumstance - if some would see life beyond themselves and stop being egocentric - our society as a whole would not be as it is now and for the last century however has declined rapidly lately. We're too ego-centric and a throw away society - a society of cowards - we throw away our loved ones and others in orphanages, on other relatives, mental health facilities, nursing homes, the streets or just walk away. "Taking a vacation from and taking of your business" - I'm sorry but you dont abandon your loved ones when they're down and handle your business - you're there and you let them know you're there,yes business is as usual however they are important and when they're ready,and when they want you to help - you're there. This situation has not deterred me from obtaining my master's and I continue to work, so I'm taking care of business without the vacation. And now I'm glad to pay someone for me to unload my daily frustations with life matters. Because it clears my mind and prepares me to take on what life brings my way. It's also a healthy way to deal with all that happening with David and to receive professional advice on how to approach this situation in the correct way. This forum helps me to unload and obtain knowledge from people who have the diagnoses David has or loved ones who are going or have gone through what I'm facing now.
Never have I offered advice to David because I'm not qualified to do so and it is not my place - I only tell him that I love you and I'm here if he needs me.
Once again, I'm only here to understand what going on with David from a psych prespective so I can be supportive in the right way - the way he needs when ready and not to "fix" him.

Niccpa -- I'm a little confused at this point. Your topic is "Help me to understand my fiance." What I've gotten out of reading your posts is that you've got him all figured out pretty well -- and unless someone else's opinion totally agrees with the way you've got things figured out, you are not open to it.

I'm glad that things are running smoothly again for you, and you've made a peace that satisfies you with the way things are.

Peace and blessings to both you and David.

No I dont have everything figured out. The person who posted the previous reply about taking a vacation from his/her relationship - that's too ego-centric for me. David and I have been talking throughout this and he slowly letting me know what's going on with him. I dont believe in abandoning your loved ones when they're down or loving someone on the basis of their circumstances because that's due to change. If someone's posting is relating correction and based on assumptions - all I did was correct them. Like the person - they're stating their opinions. If I could sit and write each part of what's happened - it would be tow pages. I'm here to search for help and understanding about an area I have no idea about - good or bad postings I listen with an open mind.

I forgot to add - in no way are things running smoothly. But I can't let hurt consume my life and stop me from pursuing my life goals and living my life. I've let David know I'm here so if he wants to talk - he can call me. When I first came here - The hurt was overwhelming and i was frantically looking where I could understand what's going on in David's mind and how other loved ones deal with this type of situation and like I said - I was am still hurting however I have to continue on in life and stay strong. My life can and will not stop because david and I separated however I am not going to abandon him.

Niccpa, I said you were "a very together person." I'm sorry you thought I was saying the opposite. Below is what I said, with one added word in caps (WITH) to help you see what I was trying to say. Guess I didn't think I needed to repeat the first "with." Now I wish I had. .

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>

QUOTING MYSELF HERE:
If I were this person, no way could I have a relationship with someone (especially not WITH a very together person who can handle both full-time work and graduate studies) until I took a vacation from the relationship and took care of my own business.

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">

Niccpa, I do not even use the word "CYNICAL" at any time or any place. Why? Because it is considered extremely rude or even an insult, in certain hispanic cultures, to say that a person's thinking on any matter is "cynical." I live in a predominantly hispanic area, speak the language, and I have probably acquired the same sensitivity. "STERILE" is a rather strong word also, not to be used in my neighborhood.

I refer you to one of the blogs that Doc John has placed on PsychCentral. It's about men preferring to marry nondominant women. If dominance implies that power (usually meaning a composite of money-status-power-skills-etc.) plays a part in personal relationships, then perhaps my ideas are not considered to be cynical or sterile by everyone. Perhaps a matchmaker might be inclined to agree with me.

Some pop psychologists make POWER a dirty word. That's because, when they use it they mean ABUSE OF POWER, not power itself. That is only one frame of reference, however. So one needs to understand the person's frame of reference in order to know what that person means by the word power.

Not all psychologists use the word that way. This is my frame of reference. ALL HUMANS HAVE POWER. They have the power to financially provide, to intellectually contribute, to use their community contacts, to use their homemaking & homebuilding skills, to demonstrate love, to influence decisions within the relationship, and to give comfort. Power is not a bad word in this frame of reference. It is not cynical. It is not sterile. It is loving and productive.

You're right about one thing. I'm not a warm or demonstrative person. However, I AM a loving and caring person. I simply have my own ways of showing it.

I wish you all happiness that, Adonai willing, begins under the chupah, whether with David or with someone else of your choice. I think you are a very loving person, and that you will make a good marriage no matter whom you choose as a life partner. It's a mitzvah that you came to these forums to share with us.

Niccpa,

I read your post late last night and slept on it, thought about it today, and perhaps I have a little more insight to offer.

It takes a strong person to walk away from such a relationship for their own mental health and well-being. It takes even more strength to stay. The fact that you want to help David and be there for him is very touching... I can't explain how I feel... just that I know that what you are going through is very very difficult.

On my best days, I feel ashamed by the way I have responded to and treated the people around me. I cannot control the anger when I trigger. I am just very grateful for the friends and family, my husband, my kids, who continue to love me, even though they are afraid and do not understand.

I think that one important thing for you to do is to make sure that you have outside support for yourself. In other words, have a life apart from David... don't allow his PTSD to become who you are. I think there is a fine line between love and co-dependency. But the fact that you have posted here and want to understand more about PTSD shows that you are not just clinging to a relationship out of co-dependency. You are a very brave woman.

So maybe the most important things for you to do right now are to learn as much as you can about PTSD, the triggers, the effects, etc. David is never going to be the same. No one with severe PTSD is ever going to be the same. If you have made the choice to abide alongside him, and it sounds like you have, understand that there will be times when you will need to back away and give David space. Try not to confront him about things... I have found that confrontation increases the feelings of shame and hopelessness and sometimes spirals me back into the dark void. Make sure that you are safe... that he is not physically hurting you. And know when to walk away. Sometimes space is important.

For me, just having someone to be there when I woke from my horrific nightmares was major consolation. It takes several minutes for me to readjust to my surroundings when I come out of a nightmare or flashback. But it was comforting to have someone there, even if that person didn't say anything or do anything. It helped me separate the insanity from reality.

Anyway, take care of yourself. And keep talking. Maybe post more in the PTSD forum, because that is where I am more likely to see your posts.

Obsidian