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  #1  
Old Jul 31, 2009, 01:28 AM
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Rapunzel Rapunzel is offline
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http://sfhelp.org/site/intro.htm

I just found this, and it makes so much sense to me. From my experience and what I observe in working with other people, this guy really seems to know what he's talking about. I haven't read it all yet, but wanted to share it. It looks like the site includes a free online course to increase awareness of the problem and how to heal ourselves, our families, and society too. Anybody interested in exploring/discussing it?

The site is so packed with information and links to more information, that it looks overwhelming to me at first, but it feels so true to me that I'm going to keep going back until I can absorb at least most of it. Here's a summary:

Quote:
The Unseen [ Wounds + Unawareness ] Cycle
My work as a family therapist, researcher, and educator since 1979 suggests this premise: (a) Your family, (b) many of the people you work with and for, and (c) most of your fellow citizens, may suffer significant stress, loss, and heartache because of this invisible cycle:
Widespread public ignorance, unawareness, and denial promote...
Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle
Public and religious values, traditions, and laws that allow couples to marry
and conceive children before they're qualified to do so, which causes...

Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle
Epidemic unwise (a) marital and (b) child-conception choices +
ineffective communication, grieving, and parenting. So...

Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle
Typical young kids get inadequate nurturing and training on these topics at
home and school; So most of them develop significant psychological wounds, and...
Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle
must adapt to parental psychological or legal divorce, because
their wounded, unaware caregivers aren't able to fill their marital needs.

Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle
Survivors of this cycle grow up and - without [ an awakening + self-motivated
personal healing + effective help ] -
unconsciously repeat and spread the cycle.
Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle
The spreading wounds and ignorance in our society promote...
Once citizens, parents, and legislators are aware of this cycle and its escalating toxic impacts,
they (we) can break the cycle through appropriate education, recovery programs, and new laws.
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“We should always pray for help, but we should always listen for inspiration and impression to proceed in ways different from those we may have thought of.”
– John H. Groberg

Thanks for this!
FooZe, Hunny, I_WMD, Kiya, Lost71, lynn P., phoenix7

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  #2  
Old Aug 01, 2009, 11:51 AM
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i was instantly drawn to the subject, because my own experience is one of under-nurturing... i'm disappointed that they focus on the state of the marriage, divorce, or becoming parents too early though. From my own experience personally, and with what i have seen around me, i haven't seen that correlate into the lack of nurturing. i know plenty of kids from divorced parents who had good nurturing and stable families (extended etc).

It's collaborative in many ways... many people don't have the internal skills to give adequate nurturing but it doesn't mean they shouldn't have children... i mean, who decides that? And i wouldn't exist

It's true that awareness is needed, better skills training, better education... better community oriented support for families to allow children to get nurturing from more sources in the first place.

i didn't know i wasn't getting what any child needs... i just felt bad.

My parents weren't too young, they didn't divorce psychologically or otherwise... by all standards used in this discussion, my childhood had all they talk about structurally. i was the youngest and my siblings got a somewhat better deal than i did though... undiagnosed health issues, financial stresses... and a myriad of circumstantial stuff created a situation where i fell through a lot of cracks. i doubt my family is even aware that what i experienced was so devoid of nurturing affection at some points. No one took the time to teach me some things that should be givens... because no one realized... it was a lot of not noticing their own "stuff" was interferring with the development of a young child.

i don't think it's fair to make broad statements about who should have kids or when.. or that divorce causes a lack of nurturing... it isn't that tidy. It's just wrong to even use the phrase "qualified to do so [be parents]." Egads... throw the first stone, why don't they? Who would be "qualified?" Who are these normal, qualified, perfectly adapted parents anyway? My parents are good people... they have other children... married over 50 yrs now... not wealthy but not poor... church-going... - they'd pass the "qualifications" test, and yet, my childhood was what it was.

Sometimes the most unlikely parents raise well-grounded and loved/loving children... sometimes the lack of nurture makes a person vividly aware of what is missing and they seek to self-improve (like me )...

So not tidy.

A lack of nurturing really does create wounds... unnamed ones... prevents some skill sets from developing when they should and the battle is uphill later... sort of like learning a second language as an adult.

it is a decent read rapunzel, ty for posting it... a very good discussion topic as well. Will make it through the rest of it later... maybe it addresses my views in parts i haven't gotten to.

peace
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Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle Low-Nurturance Families - Break the CycleLow-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle

“This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples; no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our own heart is our temple; the philosophy is kindness.” -His Holiness, the Dalai Lama

I will not kneel, not for anyone. I am courageous, strong and full of light. Find someone else to judge, your best won't work here.
Thanks for this!
FooZe, Hunny, Rapunzel, Ratanddragon
  #3  
Old Aug 02, 2009, 01:21 AM
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I relate to this for the same reasons that you do. I didn't get what I needed as a child from my parents, although they meant well and have been married more than 40 years, go to church, etc. But my parents had unrecognized unmet needs, so I had unrecognized unmet needs, and so did all of my siblings. Some of us have been more crippled by it than others. One of my brothers is dead, and this is the root of it (suicide - he thought he could never belong or be accepted or do the things he wanted to do). Although my parents are still married, they don't have a healthy relationship, and I never really saw it until my husband pointed it out.

I was not ready to get married, and not ready to have children, but did it anyway because I thought that was what I was supposed to do. I wish that I had figured out what I wanted and how to get my needs met first. I admire girls (or boys) who insist, "I will marry for love or not at all." I wish I had heard that much earlier in life and learned that message.

I work with youth in the juvenile justice system. Many of them have babies, even though these kids are as young as 15 years old or younger, and they don't understand how to manage themselves, let alone be effective parents and provide for their own children. It's normalized for them though, because their parents were often that young too, and everywhere they look, they see other kids having kids. The cycle continues.

The wording proclaiming some people unqualified to have children could probably be thought out better. But this guy isn't saying that there are certain people who should never have children. As I understand it, he's saying that people need to understand how to become adequately nurtured themselves, before selecting a mate and definitely before becoming parents. I sincerely wish that I had learned these things first, and that my parents had, and the kids that I work with even more so.
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“We should always pray for help, but we should always listen for inspiration and impression to proceed in ways different from those we may have thought of.”
– John H. Groberg

  #4  
Old Aug 04, 2009, 02:34 AM
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That cycle that this Family T has posited is (ironically) just what I was coming to the conclusion of the other night - but not knowing anyway of fixing it, as I am in step 5 on that chart. I am very interested in learning more!

For the discussion, my parents were "old" to have kids by the standard norm. And they should have NEVER had kids. In fact, I was a "mistake". My dad never even wanted kids. Mom always wanted a baby. She didn't understand that those grow up and hasn't let me do so. Yet at the same time, both parents were really children, and I was born "old" so I took care of their emotional needs most the time, starting at 6 years old (after I graduated from hiding under the bed or table during their fights).

He came from a broken home and alcoholic dad, she came from a "together home" with physical abuse and an alcoholic dad.
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  #5  
Old Aug 04, 2009, 12:27 PM
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My mother also never understood that babies grow up. We weren't allowed to, and she fought me when I tried. My 35-year-old sister is still stuck at home and doesn't challenge it. And my youngest sister (age 22 now, with Down Syndrome), was what mom needed us all to be. My family's casualty count rises. None of us escaped without mental health issues, even if some don't admit it and insist on staying the same and creating a new generation with the same problems.
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“We should always pray for help, but we should always listen for inspiration and impression to proceed in ways different from those we may have thought of.”
– John H. Groberg

  #6  
Old Aug 04, 2009, 03:09 PM
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*sigh* ((((((((Rap and sibs))))))))) yeah... 32, stuck at home... fighting it with bouts of giving in.
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Thanks for this!
Rapunzel
  #7  
Old Aug 04, 2009, 05:50 PM
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((((((((( Kiya )))))))))) Don't give in, ok? You have a life out there - it's up to you to make it happen.
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“We should always pray for help, but we should always listen for inspiration and impression to proceed in ways different from those we may have thought of.”
– John H. Groberg

  #8  
Old Aug 04, 2009, 08:12 PM
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*sigh* Rap - thanks.
I am just now realizing (somehow) that mom is an energy vampire... not just energy, but financially as well. She took my school money for rent and now wants my Educational award too. And her brother's money, and her boyfriends.... and my grandmothers.... and her own mom's long gone inheritence..... I never saw this before. But she is sucking me dry.
As far as i can tell, my only hope out is SSDI or her dying from old age. not to be pessimistic. but i guess i am being such.... *paces house like trapped tiger*
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  #9  
Old Aug 04, 2009, 10:36 PM
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What about taking your money and using it to live someplace else? Nothing says you have to stay and pay her rent.
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“We should always pray for help, but we should always listen for inspiration and impression to proceed in ways different from those we may have thought of.”
– John H. Groberg

  #10  
Old Aug 04, 2009, 10:53 PM
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I don't have enough. I have no savings and barely any income enough to meet my bills w/o rent. Plus, one has to have deposit and first and last month's rent up front.

I was liiving in my head the daydream of finally yelling at her when she accosts me, grabbing whatever is near me, and taking off - living in my car. I just don't think that's the answer tho.

Is ok - no need to respond. I've been round this particular bend sooooooo many times over the years... there is just no viable option.

((((((((((((Rap)))))))))))))
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  #11  
Old Aug 05, 2009, 04:36 AM
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Kiya, what would you do if something happened to your mom and you couldn't live with her anymore? Or if she wasn't there? I've had just about the same conversation with my sister, too, and she also doesn't see any options for moving out. Even when I invite her to come and visit us for a while, she finds a reason why she can't. And I'm stuck where I am too, so don't feel like I'm just pointing fingers. But, what is it really that keeps us all from starting our own lives? Maybe not tomorrow or next week, but at some specific point in the relatively near future? What would you have to give up, for a while, to get away? Would it be worth it in the long run? I mean, I remember not always having enough money when I was a single college student, but I would have survived that for another couple of years or so until I could get a better job. I hope, at least. It's a bit scary, but isn't it scary to have your mom controlling your life for the rest of your life, or hers? Isn't your daydream scary? I was dreaming of living in my car, too, the year before I left my parents' house and went away to school. It seemed like a better option than staying stuck. Independence and confidence are needs, and being prevented from getting those needs met is pretty serious low-nurturance. It's crippling.
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“We should always pray for help, but we should always listen for inspiration and impression to proceed in ways different from those we may have thought of.”
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  #12  
Old Aug 05, 2009, 11:37 PM
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Well, if something happened to her, I'd sell all the stuff and have enough money to move. (hope that doesn't sound too... um...hardened). I'm not attached to her in that way. I just can't see any resources.

I know there are more issues than that - but that is the main one. Ok, looking at your other questions...

"But, what is it really that keeps us all from starting our own lives, at some specific point in the relatively near future? What would you have to give up, for a while, to get away? Would it be worth it in the long run?"

ok worst case senario - i could call an abuse shelter and tell them... what? I'm not hit. Sometimes I am afraid of getting hit. That i am emotionally abused? then i'd take up a bed that could go to someone who IS getting hit. If i went in, (and I've worked in one before and honestly my 3 hour shifts were TOO LONG to be there, i hated it) i'd have even less privacy than i do now, not be able to take hardly any of my stuff, not keep my fish or cat, and have even MORE rules than i do now. blah.

I suppose a deeper issue is that when it comes time for me to move (aka I have they money) my mom will fight me again and tell me all the reasons why i can't go and why i will fail (we've gone through this countless times) and why i can't leave her and "what am I supposed to do?!?!?!" yelled at me very angerly. and i sense that even when removed from the house I am still expected to care for her financially because "That's what families do".

Mom talks with/of me in terms of her always getting equal halves in anything i get; food, clothes, money, a vacation, a trip for school... you name it. she seems to think of us as conjoined twins. Despite that i have fought her all these years for my OWN boundaries, she still holds these ideas. How does one change the mind/beliefs of another that won't be changed? Just walk away? Not have contact with someone that I've been emmeshed with, entertwined with?

I suppose in a way it would be like cutting away a malignant tumor that is twisted around my intestines. Actually, i mentioned intestines because I do seem to have a hard wall or mass there that I am afraid to have checked out at my dr apnt tomorrow afternoon (among *other* exams needed that I keep trying to refuse).

Wow - I am having a body reaction from this post - in an area I try to pretend doesn't exist, lower than the intestines. It is causing a lot of pain and discomfort and rather feeling... ummm.... s*xual. Part of my boundary work with the mom. even tho the dad was the perp, the mom was sorta also in a weird way and she was always outwardly more sensual with me than the dad.

When she is in a good mood, i am supposed to be. When I am in a bad mood, she gets into one too and then yells at me. You wrote "but isn't it scary to have your mom controlling your life for the rest of your life, or hers? " yes... it is and she has even haunted my nightmares even with us both being adults in the nightmare, where this same body pain happens (but 100 times worse and I wake up unable to scream or move).

"Independence and confidence are needs, and being prevented from getting those needs met is pretty serious low-nurturance. It's crippling. "

I never saw those as needs. Interestingly I had had both until ... well I'm not sure when. I had them "in the world" and now i barely have them anywhere. It is crippling. I never knew just how much living with mom would cripple me. Like a giant weed taking all the nutrients from the soil.

ok that pain is getting unbareable @_@
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  #13  
Old Aug 06, 2009, 10:48 AM
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((((((((((( Kiya ))))))))))))

I understand. My sister is in a very similar situation, and I would have been too if I hadn't fought to leave home when I did. And it was a battle, and took me a year to find a way thanks to sabotage by my mother. She taught me that nothing I had was mine because she essentially owned me. So I left with hardly anything. It's also interesting how we stay for our pets. My sister has her cats too, and fish. I left my parents but I'm stuck again now in my marriage, and giving up my pets and animals is would be unacceptable for me and I don't know if I could find a way to take them with me. My T says that I could.

I do understand how hard it is. And all the feelings you are having from posting this, and thinking about this stuff. You can't change your mother - she will be who she is. But you don't have to give her your money or anything else, and you can say no to her and decide to take charge of your life. People like you and me and my sister tend to be nearly invisible, and hard to find. If you found someone else in a similar situation, would you be able to share a house or apartment? Would that help?

I'll try to stop picking on you. You really have my attention because I relate to your circumstances so much.
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  #14  
Old Aug 06, 2009, 11:08 PM
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Kiya Kiya is offline
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((((((((((((((((Rapunzel))))))))))))))))
There is so much in this topic... and so much familiar to me too in what you wrote...

sabotage by my mother. yes i get this everytime i get close to moving
She taught me that nothing I had was mine because she essentially owned me. interesting because this was my dad - even owned my teeth after the braces... controlled appointments, even when i was 3000 miles away.
giving up my pets and animals is would be unacceptable for me and I don't know if I could find a way to take them with me. yeah - working on this one too - the cat is really hers, but he loves ME and i him, and I care for his medicines.
But you don't have to give her your money or anything else, and you can say no to her How??? It is rent - she demands it - even when it comes from my school loans and educational awards. she still owes me $60 i have a feeling i will never see again... just like half the cat vet bills all these times...
decide to take charge of your life. does it sound totally weak and pathetic if i say i'm not sure i know how to any more? I've left here 3 times - all failed financially and emotionally. a 4th time with a touring performance group and i got deathly ill. mom said "thank god you're back - i would have died without you."
People like you and me and my sister tend to be nearly invisible, and hard to find. i do remember being invisible for so so so long. i think i am not so much any more, but maybe now just transparent?
If you found someone else in a similar situation, would you be able to share a house or apartment? Would that help? i honestly think it wouldn't because i have yet to learn who I am - and stop being a chamelion, changing to the environment and likes/dislikes of others. I still hide in my corner (transparent?) and try to blend in with the wall IRL. I need a chance to spread my wings and find out what i like/dislike, who i am, what i will become, find some interests to live for, get involved, stop tiptoing around others, find my voice and remember how to use it, learn how to live independently WELL and be emotionally well adjusted. *whew!* that's a lot!

I'll try to stop picking on you. You really have my attention because I relate to your circumstances so much. It is ok. I chose to be involved in this conversation - I just hope I can be as beneficial to it as you have been to me.
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  #15  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 12:37 AM
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I'm sorry that you have these same experiences. I think that my sister would probably relate to you even more, although I did grow up with this too. Sometimes I question whether I'm better off or not as I'm just dependent on someone else, and leaving my marriage would feel like a betrayal. But in some ways maybe leaving home did/would too. My sister helps to care for a younger, disabled sister who also could experience more of life than she does, but doesn't have the ability to be independent. I'm not sure how they work it out, but the caregiving could be considered part of her rent. And she gets to do most of the things that she really wants to do. It's not entirely a bad deal, although I would like to rescue her (and you) if I could. Sometimes it's hard not to be codependent. Like mom. Rescuing isn't the way. I was rescued by my husband, and I'm still trapped. I don't want to play either role.

I think you are on the right track with knowing you need to spread your wings, find out what you like/dislike, who you are, what you will become, what interests motivate you enough to live for, find and use your voice, etc. And I hope that you do all of that. I know that you are the only one who can do it. And I want the same things for myself too.

I'm glad you have entered this conversation. I have felt that you were a kindred soul before, and now I know why. You are helping me to see what it might have been like if I hadn't 'escaped' the way that I did, and what it might be like for my sister. You are also validating the experience of a type of parenting that I'm not sure more than a very few people even recognize, and that almost nobody recognizes as abuse. But it is.

The mama bird knows that her job is to push the babies out of the nest when they are ready, after teaching them how to fly and live on their own. Parents that don't recognize that look like martyrs to the outside world sometimes, but in reality they are soul crushers. Often with the best intentions. Or not.
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“We should always pray for help, but we should always listen for inspiration and impression to proceed in ways different from those we may have thought of.”
– John H. Groberg

  #16  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 12:38 AM
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Rapunzel Rapunzel is offline
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Are you a Grown Wounded Child?

Quote:
Low-Nurturance Families - Break the Cycle About Grown Wounded Children (GWCs)
Premise from 30 years' clinical research: young chil-dren deprived of adequate psychological and spiritual nur-turance automatically develop a "false self" (leaderless per-sonality) to survive. Here, a GWC is a person who (a) sur-vived a low-nurturance childhood and (b) is probably unaware of up to six significant false-self wounds. Without awareness and healing, typical GWCs choose other GWCs for partners repeatedly, and unintentionally pass on false-self wounds to their kids as their ancestors did.
Unseen GWC wounds and their impacts are probably one of two main reasons over half of Americans divorce le-gally or psychologically. The other reason is ineffective communication. Once aware, GWCs can intentionally re-duce their wounds and guard against passing them on via self-motivated personal recovery. In this Web site, family Lesson 1 focuses on wound- assessment and healing. Many average people (like you?) are unrecovering GWCs.
http://sfhelp.org/

http://sfhelp.org/gwc/pop/gwc.htm
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Last edited by Rapunzel; Aug 07, 2009 at 02:26 AM.
  #17  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 02:02 AM
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Kiya Kiya is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rapunzel View Post
Sometimes I question whether I'm better off or not as I'm just dependent on someone else, and leaving my marriage would feel like a betrayal. But in some ways maybe leaving home did/would too.
yes... i think there is something there - it does feel like a betrayal to leave home, leave mom who is such a good martyr, and so good at being wounded.... like to live a full life i have to kill her (metaphorically speaking of course - leaving her would break her heart and spirit)... yet she is breaking mine.
Quote:
although I would like to rescue her (and you) if I could. Rescuing isn't the way. I was rescued by my husband, and I'm still trapped. I don't want to play either role.
I am just realizing (through this conversation) that I was raised and taught to be "rescued" by both parents - and also to constantly rescue them. that is the relattionship - in all it's forms; emotional, financial... i needed to know that. I do not want to play this role. I never did, but I never knew what else to be.
Quote:
And I hope that you do all of that. I know that you are the only one who can do it. And I want the same things for myself too.
yes - there must be a way for us both!!!! I just had this conversation with my dr today who has also had the same type of mom. and yet she made it! She is healthy, successful, is the only thing IRL supporting me up (gave me to my T), is the driving force in my getting better (and she is quite a force to be reconed with). I cried through my whole visit today - talking about all these things. She said she wishes she could wisk me out of here, knowing that this is the major force that is "driving you mad" as she put it. Fate rather interveined in her "Escape" from her mom. I"ve been wishing for such fate for as long as i can remember... clearly i am going to have to make my own fate - and it looks like that is going to be yet another emotional wound to her. I'm just not sure how when I don't have the financial support. But that makes me sound like my dad who stayed in a "bad marriage" (of which he was definately half the problem) for 19 years until finances worked for him. yitch! that doesn't feel good either. I may have to be both mamma bird and lil bird at the same time - push myself before I feel ready, and no going back (scary!)....

Quote:
I have felt that you were a kindred soul before, and now I know why.
yes, exactly (((((((((rapunzel))))))))))

Quote:
You are also validating the experience of a type of parenting that I'm not sure more than a very few people even recognize, and that almost nobody recognizes as abuse. But it is.
wow was this hard to read - and is still sinking in. but like i was saying, my dr vaildated that too. she didn't term it that, but it was all there; in her demeanor, eyes, voice, wish for me to be away from here, as was her own memory of having to get away.
Quote:
Parents that don't recognize that look like martyrs to the outside world sometimes, but in reality they are soul crushers.
yes - that is what it feels like - my soul being crushed a little more each day and not remembering why i was fighting.... thinking maybe i AM the one who is wrong - the bad daughter of the mother who does SO much for me... blah blah blah. I KNOW what the reality is. But when I stand up (which I did tonight after my dr apnt) mom threw it right back at me with the voice and attitude that says I am the one being unfair, i am the loser, the mean one, I am the ungrateful one. i was really down again and feeling like dirt until reading your post which reaffirmed that it isn't just all in my head, i am not the only one who has lived this, my dr apnt was not just a fabricated dream where someone understood and confirmed that mom just needs a one way ticket to a deserted island.

I don't know about you, but I feel like I totally need outside help - someone to be here by my side (not rescuing me - being rescued puts the rescuee in the debt of the other), reminding me my CHOICE to walk away, and my skills, my power, where i am going and why. Does that make sense? otherwise, it is all just.... a smoke screen. I know that T does this. but that one hour of the week just doesn't cut it. this is too big. I've been mired here too many years. like those souls on the Flying Dutchman (from Pirates of the Caribbean II) who become so incrusted with sealife from Davie Jones, they become part of the ship.
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Thanks for this!
FooZe
  #18  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 02:44 AM
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I don't know about you, but I feel like I totally need outside help - someone to be here by my side (not rescuing me - being rescued puts the rescuee in the debt of the other), reminding me my CHOICE to walk away, and my skills, my power, where i am going and why. Does that make sense? otherwise, it is all just.... a smoke screen. I know that T does this. but that one hour of the week just doesn't cut it. this is too big. I've been mired here too many years. like those souls on the Flying Dutchman (from Pirates of the Caribbean II) who become so incrusted with sealife from Davie Jones, they become part of the ship.
Yes, that totally makes sense. As does the Flyilng Dutchman analogy. I have my T also, who broke away, apparently painfully, from her family too. Who do you think would fit the bill for someone to support you, beyond that hour per week with T? Someone to keep reminding you that you can do this, and that it is your right and responsibility to be free, and to live your own life?
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  #19  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 02:52 AM
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I just noticed this thread.

(((((((Kiya))))))) (((((((Rapunzel)))))))

Thank you both for sharing your private, really, conversation like this. I have no practical advice to offer either of you but I get where you're both coming from.

By way of other-than-practical advice: I say it's going to end up helping both of you more (and differently) than you can possibly anticipate, just to keep looking at those very issues the way you have been and sharing about them as you just did. [/other-than-practical advice]

I grew up in a situation generally like both of yours, left it less than gracefully -- and before long found myself stuck with no very attractive options in a strikingly similar situation. The second time, I eventually started thinking of leaving but expected that if I announced it as my idea, the people I was living with would try hard to make me pay dearly for my slighting of them. I was surprised to discover, though, that as soon as I started standing up for myself and telling it the way I saw it instead of the way I was supposed to -- they told me I was leaving, then agreed to pay me to leave. (I found out later that it was only a few more months before everyone else opted to scatter too, but that's another story.)

I have no idea, of course, whether any part of what worked for me in this situation would work for anyone else in theirs, but I'm quite sure that if I had it to do over, I'd do it the same way only a whole lot sooner.

Thanks for this!
Kiya, Rapunzel
  #20  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 03:44 PM
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Yes, that totally makes sense. As does the Flyilng Dutchman analogy. I have my T also, who broke away, apparently painfully, from her family too. Who do you think would fit the bill for someone to support you, beyond that hour per week with T? Someone to keep reminding you that you can do this, and that it is your right and responsibility to be free, and to live your own life?

No idea ATM. but maybe, like "the teacher arrives when the student is ready", as i am more and more ready, maybe that person will arrive?
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  #21  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 04:08 PM
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No idea ATM. but maybe, like "the teacher arrives when the student is ready", as i am more and more ready, maybe that person will arrive?
"If the mountain will not come to Mohammed," someone once said, "then Mohammed must go to the mountain." Could the arrival that you're waiting for possibly have occurred some time ago?
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  #22  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 04:43 PM
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OMG you're being cryptic - this is when I feel like I'm a bear of little brain... do you mean ME - as in I have to show up for myself? ...and that i arrived in Oct 2007 (i'm reaching here).
@_@
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  #23  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 07:49 PM
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...do you mean ME - as in I have to show up for myself? ...and that i arrived in Oct 2007
Oh, sorry, I didn't mean to be cryptic. It seems to me that you came here to learn and you're already learning -- from everyone here. Now it could very well be that when the student is even readier, other teachers will appear. Meanwhile, though, you haven't exactly been holding your breath waiting and I don't think you should start now.
Thanks for this!
Kiya
  #24  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 09:40 PM
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((((((FooZe))))) =)

I am going to take a well earned gold star - I cooked a gourmet pasta dish tonight.
Some background is needed; in my messed up family, on the surface the parents were supportive, said go for your dreams, teach the child to do things and be independent. But they didn't back that up with practice, building on basic skills, and totally undermined everything with their behaviors and actions, abuse in all forms...

So i didn't learn to cook. I mean i could do toast naturally, cereal... boil water for pasta. But that was about it. My gran had taught me to make hamburgers and had me practice all the time - but only at her house was this allowed. So, in college, i didn't have a stove either - i had a fridge and a microwave, and an incredibly short budget (like most) and a dad that waited until I absolutely needed rescuing (aka I'd been eating mayo sandwiches for 3 days and then run out of bread) and would take me on a food shopping spree, and "remind me" that he "gave me" money for rent and food "every month" (aka every 3 or 4 months or when he felt like it or decided i was starving). I was working 20 hours a week which covered my rent and phone (yes i did make it out of the nest once - and spent most of it drinking alone in my room -with the booze i'd brought from home- to keep my mood disorder from taking over). And dad refused me help if i asked for it. Always. "To teach me to do things for myself". But if he sensed that I was floundering (aka he could be the hero) then he would and make a big deal of it.
So 30 years old and still unable to really cook (i'd picked up scrambled eggs which i could get right most the time, french toast, and omelets) I was diagnosed with adrenal fatigue and allergic to food - literally 95% of ALL FOOD.
It is really in the past 2 years i have had to teach myself to cook; using the 8 ingredients I am allowed - things like Quinoa and Kamut and the likes I'd never heard of - and learned to really utilize the 4 spices I am allowed (ok 5 if you count sea salt).
All this LONG story to say that tonight I cooked up a bunch of Semolina spaghetti that i found at emergency food that mom wanted to cook up - and split it so she could have hers the way she wants it (with Paul Newman's Bomboli sauce on it) while i stick to my medical diet. I cooked mine to MY perfection (LOL) with butter (yes i cheat, why live if one cannot have SOMETHING to put on food?!), fresh basil, a teeeny bit of sweet onion (another cheat), dried oregano, herbs de province, a pinch of sea salt, and "pesto seasoning" - all topped with mhizethra (which I know i spelled totally funky). And MMMMMMMMMMMMMM was it good. oh and i sautéed the butter, spices, onion and basil first.

SO!!!! Gold COOKING Star for me tonight. I had to fight off mom with a fork - not that it worked. She still got several bites out of it, even though I said no i don't know how many times. Then when I went to eat mine she ate more - i heard her and pinned her with it - she finally admitted by going *gulp* and changing the subject, then complained about her own dinner the rest of the way. *brushes it off*. I have retreated for the night to ponder all this.

Oh - ok another point for me is that at the dr's yesterday there was a new nurse and i had new scars on my arm that i didn't want dealt with. I spoke right up and told her that the head clinician has made it so that if i cannot deal with the blood pressure dealie, due to anxiety, i get to skip it. "and today is one of those days!" It really does cause me triggers, thanks to the dad always using one on me too tight to "practice" his EMS skills. SO i didn't have to have it and didn't have to explain scars. =) Yay me! I used my voice!!!!
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  #25  
Old Aug 07, 2009, 11:32 PM
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(((((((Kiya)))))))



But that reminds me: I seem to be meeting ever so many great people here lately who, as soon as something good happens and they demonstrate conclusively that they do indeed rock, suddenly find they've stirred up stuff that's now telling them they do not rock, they... (well, never mind), and they have to somehow beat themselves up over it.

I thought I'd better check if you ever do that, and if I need to be careful about reminding you that you rock.

Thanks for this!
Kiya
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