[FluffyDinosaur]

More and more I've started to hate everything in my life that I used to love. It all just feels like one big trap that I need to escape from. This has been going on for quite a while. I want to just throw everything away and start over and find a better life. I want to quit my job, sell my house, divorce my wife, everything. The urge is extremely strong, like I have to change everything now while I still can or else be trapped forever.

I've read that some people "externalize" their depression and act out in ways like that. Do you think that's what's going on? Does anyone else have experience with that? Even though I know that maybe there's an explanation for it, the urge to escape is still so strong. Everything just feels so completely wrong...

[bpcyclist]

I do enter an agitated state of depression sometimes somewhat similar to what you describe. I want to lash out and tell the world What It Is All About, etc. I have often felt this may represent a bit of lurking dysphoric mania, a mixy thingy, maybe, as the externalization, as you interestingly phrase it, us such a big part of hypo and mania for me. Everyone must hear about it. So on. This is sort of a depression-mania subtype for me, at least, this is how I presently make sense of it.

Hugs.

[Scooter9]

I can relate I went though something similar. I got really close to divorcing my wife.

I was really depressed and feeling similar to the way your say you feel.

Something kept telling me not to act on my feelings. I don't know what it was but I thought that I should not act on what I feel and wait until things were better.

I ended up not acting on what I was feeling. I'm still depressed though but I have come to learn that those thoughts were distortions created by the depression.

Now I avoid making big decisions into until I have given things plenty of thought I externalize my thoughts in my journal so that I can see them and look out for distortions that mange to creep in.

[*Beth*]

2 minutes ago I posted to you on your med thread. Somehow I missed this one.

I'm hesitant to label what you've described, only because I don't want to project my own experience onto yours. That said, when I feel the way you've described I would call it a mixed state or, in past years, an agitated depression.

You've mentioned your wife a few times...does it feel like she doesn't understand what's going on with you?

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

I do enter an agitated state of depression sometimes somewhat similar to what you describe. I want to lash out and tell the world What It Is All About, etc. I have often felt this may represent a bit of lurking dysphoric mania, a mixy thingy, maybe, as the externalization, as you interestingly phrase it, us such a big part of hypo and mania for me. Everyone must hear about it. So on. This is sort of a depression-mania subtype for me, at least, this is how I presently make sense of it.

Hugs.

Thank you, it's interesting that you mention dysphoric mania, because I think all of this started in its full intensity when I was mixed at the start of this year. Back then I wanted to end my relationship and start a new one, run away from everything. I even tried to get my wife to divorce me multiple times but she said no. And I was so incredibly angry at my therapy practice for abandoning me when I needed them most that I had really violent thoughts about them. I came close to getting in my car and driving by all of their addresses and beating the crap out of each and every one of their practices with a crowbar. Then I just wanted to drive far far away to wherever and maybe never come back.

I currently don't feel manic, at least I don't have that energy, but maybe some of the other symptoms have lingered. Certainly the ones about wanting to start a new life, and I'm also still holding on to a huge amount of anger and anxiety that's going through my head 24/7.

Throughout this whole episode I've certainly been going back and forth between more mixed phases and more depressed phases. The reason I called it externalizing depression was because I thought perhaps I was "projecting" the depressive feelings onto everything around me and creating a distorted reality that doesn't match how I would normally feel. But it's been so long that I don't even know how normal would feel anymore. I just hope what I'm feeling isn't reality, because then I'll be really screwed.

Originally Posted by Scooter9

I can relate I went though something similar. I got really close to divorcing my wife.

I was really depressed and feeling similar to the way your say you feel.

Something kept telling me not to act on my feelings. I don't know what it was but I thought that I should not act on what I feel and wait until things were better.

I ended up not acting on what I was feeling. I'm still depressed though but I have come to learn that those thoughts were distortions created by the depression.

Now I avoid making big decisions into until I have given things plenty of thought I externalize my thoughts in my journal so that I can see them and look out for distortions that mange to creep in.

Thank you, I journal as well and I find that it helps sometimes. I try to talk to my therapist about it but some of the things are just embarrassing and difficult to bring up for me so I feel like I have to figure those out on my own.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by BethRags

2 minutes ago I posted to you on your med thread. Somehow I missed this one.

I'm hesitant to label what you've described, only because I don't want to project my own experience onto yours. That said, when I feel the way you've described I would call it a mixed state or, in past years, an agitated depression.

You've mentioned your wife a few times...does it feel like she doesn't understand what's going on with you?

Thank you, Beth. To be honest this one hits pretty close to home. As I mentioned in my post above, it's possible that this is a remnant symptom of the mixed state(s) I've been going through since the start of this year. Right now I don't feel manic in terms of energy-level, but I do have these feelings, as well as a lot of anger and a lot of anxiety. I'm obsessively thinking about losing access to my therapist again if covid gets worse again, and I can't get that thought out of my head. It's just circling around 24/7. Sometimes irritability surfaces for a few days but then it's gone again for a while.

But to answer your question; no, honestly, I don't feel like my wife understands. I don't even like to try to talk to her anymore about it because it's just frustrating. I can tell she just wants me to get better, and I feel like she blames me because I can't. She just wants me to be that happy enthusiastic guy again (and I do, too, but I can't just flip a switch). I just have to try and put on that mask. I feel like a burden to my family but I can't in good conscience leave (either by starting a new life or ending this one) either because I'm responsible for them, so I'm just completely trapped. Honestly I feel much more of a connection with my therapist right now and I enjoy talking to her much more than anyone else.

[bpcyclist]

I really relate to what you write, Fluffy
My ex-wife never believed I was bipolar, despite umpteen manic and psychotic and depressive episodes. She wanted me to be just an addict, so she could call me a scumbag and feel victory. Once the $3000 shoes and six trips to Hawaii and Paris a year were done, she could not leave fast enough. She did not mean the part about "in sickness.." She liked the part about shoes.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

I really relate to what you write, Fluffy
My ex-wife never believed I was bipolar, despite umpteen manic and psychotic and depressive episodes. She wanted me to be just an addict, so she could call me a scumbag and feel victory. Once the $3000 shoes and six trips to Hawaii and Paris a year were done, she could not leave fast enough. She did not mean the part about "in sickness.." She liked the part about shoes.

I'm sorry to hear that, bpcyclist. Hope you've been doing better since then.

My wife, I think she means well, but she just can't understand that I just can't wish away the bipolar. She keeps wanting me to just think more optimistically, just don't ruminate and obsess so much, just don't hold on to so much anger, and so on. I can't seem to really get across that these are symptoms that I can sort of try to manage but ultimately have no real control over. And I just can't shake the conviction that she only really loves me when I'm in a good place. She doesn't show me much if any affection when I'm not doing well. If anything I feel like it annoys her. But in a sense I can't even really blame her because I even I hate myself when I'm like that. That's one of the things I hate the most about being bipolar; I feel it keeps me from being who I really am and doing the things I really want to do. I feel like just a ghost of myself.

[bpcyclist]

I hear you. I do. Ever looked into Buddhism, the secular aspects, or radical acceptance? It really turned my negative stuff around. I realize now that my problem was not my ex, she was just wonderfully being who she was. I was the problem, my pain was caused by me not accepting reality. I just should have left her yrs before, that I did not do. Me, not really her. She is precisely who she is.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Yes, and I'm able to accept that I might be better off on my own. I say might because I'm not certain it would be better; it's probably naive to think that it would "cure" my bipolar symptoms. However, I can't bring myself to do that to my kids. Thus, I feel I just don't have the choice to change anything. And besides, I still don't even know whether all of this isn't just some giant delusion caused by the depression.

I mean about the fact that it's all a trap, that I'm a burden to everyone and everyone hates me and I have to escape and start over. I've also been really obsessed with the idea that life will become unbearable if I grow old (I'm early 30s) and that I should kill myself before that happens. I feel the older I grow the more trapped I'm going to become and I don't want to live a whole life feeling as miserable as I am now. I just truly don't believe there's any hope of things getting better.

I don't understand why I can't just be happy. On paper I have everything, and there were times when I was happy with this. I don't think anything has changed to justify my current feelings, except my own mind state.

[bpcyclist]

As a survivor of two serious S efforts, let me assure you S is no answer to anything. I was saved in both instanced by what I consider miracles from God. I do not throw my faith around, not out of politeness, but because it does not work in today's world. If you ever want to hear what actually happens when a human almost commits S--twice, PM me and I will share w you. It might blow your mind to know someone is actually watching over you. Right now. And loves you, very, very much. And let me promise you, He is. And does.

Hugs and love!!

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

As a survivor of two serious S efforts, let me assure you S is no answer to anything. I was saved in both instanced by what I consider miracles from God. I do not throw my faith around, not out of politeness, but because it does not work in today's world. If you ever want to hear what actually happens when a human almost commits S--twice, PM me and I will share w you. It might blow your mind to know someone is actually watching over you. Right now. And loves you, very, very much. And let me promise you, He is. And does.

Hugs and love!!

Hey, thanks for sharing that, and I'm really sorry to hear what you went through. Me, I'm not actively suicidal at this point. It's just those thoughts that keep going through my mind. I'm just wondering to what extent I'm actually thinking clearly. It feels like I'm thinking clearly, but I also know I thought very differently in the past.

[bpcyclist]

Almost sounds like a bit of a mixed episode. To me. Sounds familiar.

[FluffyDinosaur]

What makes you say that, bpcyclist? Just to make sure I'm not missing any signs.

[bpcyclist]

Well, my mixed episodes have always had these qualities that we are describing here. Also, there is a confusion and vagueness associated that often comes with these episodes that reminds me a lot of being postictal after my seizures, very similar feeling. I hear something like that from you, fluffy. But I am weird.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

Well, my mixed episodes have always had these qualities that we are describing here. Also, there is a confusion and vagueness associated that often comes with these episodes that reminds me a lot of being postictal after my seizures, very similar feeling. I hear something like that from you, fluffy. But I am weird.

Having googled postical symptoms, I see what you mean. Judging from the wikipedia page I do have many of those symptoms. I had personally attributed this inability to think clearly to the exhaustion of this long episode. The intrusive and racing thoughts I had attributed to anxiety, and this urge to change my whole life I thought was me "externalizing" my depression. I typically tend to associate mixed episodes with increased energy and irritability/aggression in addition to the above symptoms and depression. I don't have increased energy right now (more like the opposite, although I do have insomnia), and irritability kind of comes and goes. I still don't know which explanation is true, but it's definitely an interesting different perspective, so thank you for that.

This whole thing did start out as a "normal" (typical for me) mixed episode way at the start of this year, but I thought it had morphed into depression. But maybe this is what a mixed episode feels like after all your energy is gone and you're all worn out, I don't know. The confusion, inability to think clearly, and memory problems that I experience, among other things, are interesting considering your theory that bipolar episodes are like seizures.

[fern46]

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

More and more I've started to hate everything in my life that I used to love. It all just feels like one big trap that I need to escape from. This has been going on for quite a while. I want to just throw everything away and start over and find a better life. I want to quit my job, sell my house, divorce my wife, everything. The urge is extremely strong, like I have to change everything now while I still can or else be trapped forever.

I've read that some people "externalize" their depression and act out in ways like that. Do you think that's what's going on? Does anyone else have experience with that? Even though I know that maybe there's an explanation for it, the urge to escape is still so strong. Everything just feels so completely wrong...

This makes a lot of sense. I find that when I am ill mentally I project my inside world onto the outside. It feels so completely real, but it is my subconscious mind speaking to me.

What if we looked at whats going on with you as if it were a dream? So everything feels wrong. Could this be your subconscious letting you know there's something wrong physically, or mentally or emotionally? Try to look at your feelings figuratively and less literal.

When we feel this trapped by this many things it isn't typically life on the outside that traps us. Don't throw away your life and the people who are important because your mind shifted. Just start telling yourself there is an imbalance in your body/mind/emotions and you need time to adjust and let it pass.

If after a good long while, at least several months, and after adjusting things with your doctor, you still feel trapped maybe then you make a change. Until then work with this as though you're projecting like we do when we dream. Carry some insight and knowing that the story your mind is selling is just that. A story. There is plenty of time to change your life one day if that is truly needed. Blowing up your whole world while you're ill is not a good call.

And on the symbolism front. When we feel trapped in a dream it can often represent feelings of powerlessness. I know when I get sick I often feel that way like I am a puppet and I cannot control my own mind. Just tossing that out as an example of how you can work with these feelings without assuming they actually mean you need to flee your life.

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by fern46

This makes a lot of sense. I find that when I am ill mentally I project my inside world onto the outside. It feels so completely real, but it is my subconscious mind speaking to me.

What if we looked at whats going on with you as if it were a dream? So everything feels wrong. Could this be your subconscious letting you know there's something wrong physically, or mentally or emotionally? Try to look at your feelings figuratively and less literal.

When we feel this trapped by this many things it isn't typically life on the outside that traps us. Don't throw away your life and the people who are important because your mind shifted. Just start telling yourself there is an imbalance in your body/mind/emotions and you need time to adjust and let it pass.

If after a good long while, at least several months, and after adjusting things with your doctor, you still feel trapped maybe then you make a change. Until then work with this as though you're projecting like we do when we dream. Carry some insight and knowing that the story your mind is selling is just that. A story. There is plenty of time to change your life one day if that is truly needed. Blowing up your whole world while you're ill is not a good call.

And on the symbolism front. When we feel trapped in a dream it can often represent feelings of powerlessness. I know when I get sick I often feel that way like I am a puppet and I cannot control my own mind. Just tossing that out as an example of how you can work with these feelings without assuming they actually mean you need to flee your life.

Thank you, this is an interesting perspective, especially the point about powerlessness (as it's easy to feel powerless against bipolar). The problem is this episode and these thoughts have already lasted so long (since before the start of this year) that I really don't know what's real anymore. All I know is that "rationally" I have no reason to feel this way. I've already talked to my wife about buying an extra house where I could live but I'll try to hold off on actually changing anything until this episode relents, if it ever will.

[fern46]

Originally Posted by FluffyDinosaur

Thank you, this is an interesting perspective, especially the point about powerlessness (as it's easy to feel powerless against bipolar). The problem is this episode and these thoughts have already lasted so long (since before the start of this year) that I really don't know what's real anymore. All I know is that "rationally" I have no reason to feel this way. I've already talked to my wife about buying an extra house where I could live but I'll try to hold off on actually changing anything until this episode relents, if it ever will.

It will pass. All things have seasons. Don't lose hope.

Check to see if there are respite centers in your area. There's one near me. It is kinda like IP except there are no doctors and no requirements on your time. They have group sessions and activities and counselors, but you decide what you want to do. It gives you a safe place to go for a while to get a break from your world. My husband and I have my going there as a strategy in the event I'm not well, but I don't need IP.

If not a respite center what about a hotel for a few days or a quiet cabin or short getaway someplace else? Maybe a small break would give you what your mind keeps asking for without it being so long term or final.

Also, maybe find a way to schedule a break for yourself every day from everyone. My kids no longer take naps, but they do a 2 hour quiet time in their rooms where they play and relax. It gives me a chance to be free and be me for a while before I have to be a mom and a wife again. I also give myself a break from worrying about my mental status during that time.

Sometimes taking what we need in small ways adds up to a big difference.

If only we were kids and we could run to the treehouses in the back yard

And yeah, it is so easy to feel powerless, but its funny because that feeling makes me rally and want to kick serious backside all that much more

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by fern46

It will pass. All things have seasons. Don't lose hope.

Check to see if there are respite centers in your area. There's one near me. It is kinda like IP except there are no doctors and no requirements on your time. They have group sessions and activities and counselors, but you decide what you want to do. It gives you a safe place to go for a while to get a break from your world. My husband and I have my going there as a strategy in the event I'm not well, but I don't need IP.

If not a respite center what about a hotel for a few days or a quiet cabin or short getaway someplace else? Maybe a small break would give you what your mind keeps asking for without it being so long term or final.

Also, maybe find a way to schedule a break for yourself every day from everyone. My kids no longer take naps, but they do a 2 hour quiet time in their rooms where they play and relax. It gives me a chance to be free and be me for a while before I have to be a mom and a wife again. I also give myself a break from worrying about my mental status during that time.

Sometimes taking what we need in small ways adds up to a big difference.

If only we were kids and we could run to the treehouses in the back yard

And yeah, it is so easy to feel powerless, but its funny because that feeling makes me rally and want to kick serious backside all that much more

Thanks, I did look into respite centers but unfortunately there don't seem to be any in my area. Some time away to rest does sound good, and I could probably arrange that somehow, but then again I don't want to ask for too much time off at work and I'm kind of afraid that things will get worse without the distraction of work (however badly I can concentrate right now).

What I would really like right now is more intensive treatment and therapy for a while, like when I was in IOP. Just a couple more therapy sessions a week would already be a big help for me. Unfortunately I don't really see a way to get that. My therapist can't do more than once a week (because of the rules of the practice where she works) and I'm already getting that. I've thought of going IOP again, but although things have been pretty bad, I don't think I'm in a full-fledged "crisis" yet so I don't think I can go there. It's just that this has been going on way too long and I'm tired and I can't take any more. I wish the intensive treatment could have gone on for a while after the crisis-proper was over because I sure feel like I'm nowhere near recovery yet and it's way too easy to relapse this way.

[bpcyclist]

Why no just do iop anyway?

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by bpcyclist

Why no just do iop anyway?

I'm afraid they won't consider my condition severe enough for IOP, and I don't want to waste their time. Last time I was there I was clearly in a mixed state, really agitated in addition to the depression and basically going out of my mind. I feel like "just" depression isn't enough to bother them.

[fern46]

I think it sounds like you know what you need. Maybe tell them you're considering leaving your wife and children and job and the thoughts are coming constantly. Explain the symptoms and frequency. I think the signs that you're still in a mixed episode and could benefit from the help are there.

If you cannot get in consider posting here a few times a day and looking at some local support groups.

The Depression Bipolar Support Group has a database of local meetings and online support groups. Maybe check that out even if you cannot get into IOP.

DBSA - Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance

[FluffyDinosaur]

Originally Posted by fern46

I think it sounds like you know what you need. Maybe tell them you're considering leaving your wife and children and job and the thoughts are coming constantly. Explain the symptoms and frequency. I think the signs that you're still in a mixed episode and could benefit from the help are there.

If you cannot get in consider posting here a few times a day and looking at some local support groups.

The Depression Bipolar Support Group has a database of local meetings and online support groups. Maybe check that out even if you cannot get into IOP.

DBSA - Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance

Thank you, yes, I should definitely mention that to my Pdoc. I don't know why I didn't already. Maybe because it's too embarrassing, but also it somehow didn't occur to me before. I think part of the time I don't really realize what I'm saying or doing. I've also said some weird stuff to my wife that I normally wouldn't... Anyway, my Pdoc should be able to give me a referral to IOP if he agrees that it's needed. (I hope so.)

[*Beth*]

I experience that miserable obsessive thinking when I am in a mixed state; it's common for BD. My mind gets stuck on one theme and just will not let it go for days. It's like a record playing that follows me constantly, even in my sleep.

My husband...I appreciate that he's a spiritual person, then again his answer to everything I bring up that bothering me is to tell me to pray about it. Everything. I feel like he's not empathizing with me, not truly listening; he's just giving me a standard answer. So I very seldom bring up my mental health issues anymore - or any issues.

It's painful when a spouse doesn't want to understand mental illness.

How old are your children?

I don't think it's at all unusual to feel like you are more connected to your therapist than to your wife. Not unusual, but disheartening.