Triggers

I will have to admit that since my diagnosis with CPTSD I have become more educated on it and other things as well. Often you can find definitions of what you may be experiencing but a remedy or cure is harder to find. My guess is that each situation is so different it would be hard to give an absolute answer. It's been 20 mos now since Dad's suicide and I still get triggers. Not sure if I get them more now, or just don't remember them, or knew what they were before. It does give some explanation as to why I, and others, do not want to leave the house or want to isolate themselves to protect yourself from triggering events, and people. There's got to be a way to get past this though.

What is the most surprising is that some triggers are so....stupid. Things wouldn't ordinarily upset you, so it catches you so off guard and unprepared.
Plus some triggers come from friends and/or family and when you confront them with it they back off from you, not knowing what to say. Or get mad that such a simple saying or action would upset you so much. I understand that it's hard to understand. I can't say I would have reacted any differently before this happened to me. *sigh*

Yes, some triggers seem stupid, I have felt that way myself. It is important to understand however, that what you experienced was really very traumatic and you are still "very" sensitive. It's a "hidden" injury and I know it's very confusing and also very hard to explain to others. The truth is that it traumatized and hurt you longer than you realized too. A major trauma like that can produce PTSD on a longer time frame then just the day you were traumatized. That was really a big trauma for you ((Trace)), much like taking a bottom block out of a tower of blocks which resorted in all the blocks falling down. It really takes time to slowly rebuild again, that is why I use the term "patience" all the time.

Anything can be a trigger, it can be from past witnessing traumas because of your job or because of what happened to your dad, or something in your distant past. Sometimes they are related in weird ways and that is why one trauma can trigger another unresolved trauma. There are big T's and little T's T= traumas as known in the field. Some of my traumas are sounds and smells. Seeing guns used to be a big one for me because I was threatened with them as a child almost everyday, I saw bad things done with guns, but EMDR helped make it so I can see guns on TV or on the news or a policeman carrying one, and not have my mind go straight to my previous unresolved traumas and create physical body reactions due to PTSD. My untreated gun triggers of my past were triggered by a new gun memory of me driving by a business where a live hold up was taking place. I saw the gunman through the glass doors holding up people. I was with my young son and I was scared that we might have gotten hurt by driving by. Luckily I was in therapy at the time, and when I did EMDR on this, my triggers of guns were removed from the recent trauma to the past trauma of my childhood. But it also took care of the trigger of when I went hunting as a child and saw what my dad did to rabbits after they were shot. During EMDR, one memory went to the other ones, ones long forgotten I thought, but the energy was still locked in my body because it was never processed. So EMDR cleared out crap I didn't even know was still bothering me along with the current trauma, all in the same session. My body was so exhausted after that I slept for 2 days straight almost.

I am so happy you will be able to EMDR soon. EMDR sometimes works to remove many triggers, even ones you didn't know you have, at once because many are clustered within us. While the traumas will always be remembered, the intensity of the emotions of them on your body will dissipate so you can be less affected by your triggers. Things will get better withe the right therapist and a lot of hard work. The results are worth it.

Thanks OE and CTF, that makes sense and I know it will take time, now. Until Dad's death and didn't know that past issues were still an issue and it totally shocked me to have those memories and feelings that came along with them to resurface. If dad's issue wasn't bad enough then all these surprise blows came in shortly after and continued to grow in numbers and strength. Even now seems like you can make some progress and then get pulled back under the water by something else.

I also forgot to add that when you first find out you have PTSD or complex PTSD, it is normal to read and research all you can about it.That is a good thing. But if you start consuming yourself with it (and I don't think you are but many do ) to where you are intellectualizing it so much, that doing that action is actually a form of numbing your pain which is also a part of PTSD. I am a researcher on everything, whether it is my PTSD or not. But I had to learn to feel again, and I am still working on that.

Eventually you will have to face the emotions and process them and the trauma in order to heal and put those triggers behind you. That part of your brain isn't the same as the part that wants to intellectualize things because it feels safer than the feeling part. It seems like numbing takes on two ways, either intellectiualizing the PTSD or completely avoiding it as much as possible. If you don't process the traumas, the numbing will not last, and the memories will keep surfacing and in a vicious circle, and keep bringing your PTSD triggers and symptoms to the front, almost like they just happened, or actually feel worse than the first time. That in itself of not knowing when things are going to "hit" again makes the PTSD even worse because you want to start to isolate yourself. While you will never forget your traumas or the details of the traumas, (unless you take one of those new PTSD drugs they are testing in the military) treatment will help you stop your body from reacting to the traumas physically and emotionally. Talk therapy will probably not ever be enough.

I have done that numbing stuff before and I found the only way to stop the triggers was to work directly with them head on. If not with EMDR, with some sort of desensitization therapy technique. You have to be brave, but it will be worth it because you will start to live again and PTSD won't keep you hostage in your body. This is my experience, and I have been working many years on this (I've had multiple traumas over many decades) and steadily healed more and more. Trauma victims have choices now, unlike a few decades before where the traumas consumed them and have taken away all of their life and future. Nobody has to remain hostage to PTSD anymore.
But you have to have a good T and have a lot of patience, bravely and be ready and stable enough to work through these things. It sucks, but it beats the alternative.

<<I also forgot to add that when you first find out you have PTSD or complex PTSD, it is normal to read and research all you can about it. That is a good thing. But if you start consuming yourself with it (and I don't think you are but many do ) to where you are intellectualizing it so much, that doing that action is actually a form of numbing your pain which is also a part of PTSD. I am a researcher on everything, whether it is my PTSD or not. But I had to learn to feel again, and I am still working on that. >>
Yep, did this and it about drove me crazy, or crazier. My T at the time told me to stop, without explanation as to why, which drove my anxiety out the roof. I just wanted some answers, this was all so new to me and I had so many questions that I couldn't find answers for. I am an "investigator" by nature, never got out of my terrible two's of why? why? why? I'm sure that drove mom nuts.

<< Talk therapy will probably not ever be enough. >>
Maybe this is why my counselor pretty much gave up on me and said I wasn't ready for therapy. I felt like she didn't know what to do with me and she and my PCP talked, with my permission. My PCP said she felt the same way from the communication she had with the T. Why is they expect us to be honest with them but they can not so the same with us? I was paying $150 a session out of my pocket and getting nothing, and I think she knew that.
<<But you have to have a good T and have a lot of patience, bravely and be ready and stable enough to work through these things. It sucks, but it beats the alternative. >>
When you feel so horrible it's hard to find the strength, the bravery and I thought I was ready before, to go one with another T. It's not as hard to understand why people take the alternative so often. It's the easy way out.

I've been searching for over 6 months for the right T and it is hard. But there is somebody out there, please don't give up. Weren't you going to see an EMDR therapist or do I have your story mixed up with someone else? I do that sometimes.

The alternative I am speaking of is living with PTSD and never processing it. If those T's think they can't help, they probably can't but there some who can. It's not you, it's them, not everyone can be a good trauma specialist.
I have had to try over 10 T's in the last few months to find one good with trauma. I think I finally found one.

I haven't made an appointment with that counselor yet. Very hard to pick up the phone and make that call. Counseling is new to me, the other counselor was my first and it took a lot for me to make that call. Just the thought of starting over makes me physically ill. I have a hard time expressing myself f2f, to let those walls down enough to speak of my inner emotions. I thought counselors had skills to recognize this and try to help you through this? Maybe I don't know what counseling is. At this point this is what I've got, make the appointment, have your issues already figured out and tell the counselor, they will agree or not agree , you pay them and go home more frustrated and confused than when you went in. Plus you feel unheard, not worth inquiring about why you feel that way, too much to deal with. Yep that pretty much sums it up.

I've been through the ringer the last few months trying to find a T. I had one T totally freeze up on me upon hearing about my traumas. I was in distress and she kept saying she didn't know me well enough to help me calm, and this was after 5 months.

There are some quacks out there and people who shouldn't be in the field. BUT there is somebody for you. I am sure of it.

But I know it is hard.

I hate making those calls, I try to do emails if I can.

I think I finally found a good T. I have my 3rd visit this week.

Is there anything I can help you with?

I think I just don't want to feel rejected again, not right now and it's not worth going through all that history. I typed it out for my last T, which she said it was okay to do that before the session and we would talk about it in session, but we never did. Then she said to stop sending them because she didn't have time to read them. So with my issues with verbally communicating, not much was said in the sessions. That's when she decided that I needed a break from counseling and that maybe I wasn't ready for counseling. That cut me to the bone. I practically begged for guidance on what to do between sessions and asked what she wanted to know.....she never gave me a answer.

!!! WTF?!!! Pardon my honesty. I have heard a lot of horrible things T's do and say, but this one is one of the worst! It's no wonder you don't want to contact a T if this is what you got. Holy Cow!
This is pretty bad and I would say it is not typical of therapy and therapists.
Someone suffering from PTSD , it is better to help them sooner than later.
I'm so sorry that happened to you. That shouldn't have happened to you in professional setting.

I had some things similar to this but nothing this bad while looking for a T, and I had my formal T, and still do until I officially find one now. But I remember telling her about 2 months ago I give up on the mental health profession. I had given up because going through all that history stuff on an intact just worked me up with no relief. After going through 6 of these and then getting my hopes up and than them falling because of various reasons, I gave up.

But like you, I am a strong survivor, and no matter what I keep going. I may get discouraged. But I keep going. So after a couple of weeks of a much needed break of looking, I looked again. Now I am were I am. But I feel less hope than a few months ago.

I know that feeling of not wanting to go through the history. I think writing it out is a great idea. That gives you time during the first visit to get to know the T more before jumping into the hard stuff. Most trauma T's know this, but it is hard to find a trauma therapist.

My writing here might be a little weird, I am going through some PTSD stuff at the moment and my grammar kinda goes bad. But I just hope you will reach out again when you are ready. Finding a T sucks. After your first experiences, I would be scared too and just exhausted from the stress. But once you do, it will really help. Trust me on that.

ALOHA Trace, I too am astounded that a T would treat you in that manner. Dealing with trauma requires trust in a T- when trust is broken it's hard to be motivated to seek help elsewhere. I've been in therapy for 30-years for CPTSD and I still am triggered by unexpected stimuli. I am very careful who I trust as a T. and keep them close when I find a good one. I encourage you to keep looking and know that there ARE wonderful professionals who can help, it just takes time to find the right one-

Trace14,

I posted a link to a EMDR session in another thread. It is meant for T's to hear who are considering EMDR training, but I think a future client can get a lot out of it too. http://www.emdrconsulting.com/Conten...NE%20KNOWS.mp3
If you can find a T that has EMDR training by the Roy Kiessling method, it would good fit with trauma processing as opposed to the traditional training method. This link describes them both and the differences.

That is the way I felt, and it was not so much about being rejected as it was being "invalidated".

The best case scenario is to find a therapist that is older and understands "your" age level and history. If you think about it, there have been times where you have said to me "you nailed it OE", well, I am older than you and in my fifties and have been working through my own challenges so I can often "hear" you better. That was something the therapist that finally helped me was able to do for me. If you talk about being a police officer or an EMT or other things you have been through, these areas won't be appreciated on the level "you" did them at the "time" you did them compared to what these individuals contend with and have resources for today experience. It's not that it is easier, but it "is" different.

When an individual is challenged with PTSD and is looking into the past from the "now" there really "is" a very different world "in the now" compared to the past when an individual is 40+ years old. So, that does make it harder to adjust in "the now" too. Well, how can someone "younger" really relate?

Ok, for example, you talk about how you restored old cars, well, that was how long ago? There were tools you used back then that are different now, the environment was also very different back then too. If you could walk into that environment now and see it as exactly the same as it was back then it could actually be a comfort, but that isn't how it is in the "now". Well, as we move forward in our lives, we often don't think about that because we are progressing along with "the now". Well, when complex PTSD takes place we are now suddenly very "aware" of how different it is.

Well, the therapist that finally did help me was "in touch" with the world I came from. That was VERY IMPORTANT because my therapist was better equipped with recognizing the world I came from because he lived it too.
If you write out a story, you have images in your mind that go with that story, that is something you can't always put into writing, and may not be able to articulate it so you can have the individual who is listening be "there in it with you". Not only that, but my therapist understands my "fears" in the now because he has experienced them as well, not something a younger person can identify with either.

It isn't "just" reading about PTSD and the symptoms, because, while the symtoms are shared by many who struggle, each individual is going to be unique in how these symptoms connect with their personal history "in the time" that history took place. Having an individual that can basically "time travel with you" and yet help you also relate that into "the now" is invaluable to "the healing" process. What it boils down to is "cultural sensitivity" and if that is not there, then a challenged individual can actually be even "more" traumatized, that is what I had experienced myself.

Think about your mother for example and how she seems to "need" you and yet you struggle to find a way to get her to be less dependent on you. Well, your mother needs to have help from someone who understands "her" level of life experience that can validate "her" and yet at the same time help her grieve whatever "her" history is and also learn how to be "in the now" and find her own way to settle into "existing in the now".

Well, it's very hard and for myself and from what I have heard from others, it's also very lonely. However, as I have mentioned, if you can connect with an individual that can really understand "where you are coming from", it definitely makes a huge difference.

That is what had totally escaped me, and for way too long, which is why I can't tell others how "long" it takes to slowly heal and finally get more and more in touch "with living in the now" again. I definitely suffered a lot of loss, and I could not seem to get ANY true validation, but instead was invalidated in more ways then I could have ever imagined. I read all about PTSD too, I was experiencing all the symptoms, but it was not a "conscious choice", I was definitely hurt in ways I did not consciously understand. It took me "time" to slowly figure it out and for anyone who experiences it, it is no easy task. I really had to learn how to be very patient and if I was triggered and experienced a cycle, that it meant something about how I was "hurt" and that each time I would slowly learn what it meant, AFTER, I was triggered.

It's "ok" to research and discover, each person is a little different and I can't say enough that you are definitely hurt and deserve to take the time you need to slowly heal. As with "any" injury, there is definitely a lot of sensitivity with this. It is important to not "self blame" with this challenge, you "can" slowly make gains on it, PATIENCE, is very important.

I keep trying to validate why she was like that that, the T. Maybe she wasn't used to having clients who are new to therapy. I had no idea, and still don't, what a T wants from me. How I can help the process? Do I volunteer information or wait till they ask? How can I ask questions of the T when I know nothing about the process, rules of engagement, and lack of guidance? Maybe she thought my lack of verbal response was that I had nothing to say, which is far from true. I just know it did hurt to finally open up to someone then get shut down like that. I wrote her a letter saying that I was ending the sessions, it was a nice letter, and I've heard nothing back from her. From what others have said it would have been nice to have some kind of response back from her if nothing else to help find another T. That to me show the lack of care, which I have pretty much felt about it anyway. They care as much as you pay them to care. Once the money stops coming in, that's it, the care gets turned off like a spigot. Plus I had that terrifying experience with a counselor as a kid, well it was terrifying to me, so being with a counselor is an anxious experience too. But my T knew all this. Oh well.....*sigh*

((Trace)), no one "knows" what therapy is supposed to be about though. And I have to say that when I look back on my own experiences with it once I experienced "good therapy", that is when I realized that the therapists I worked with did not even understand what "therapy" was supposed to be either.

You experienced a major trauma with your father. You need to talk that through as much as you need to talk it through too. You also need to learn how to live your life again "one day at a time" even though you experienced a trauma and a major loss like that.

When a person suffers a major trauma like that they work on not only grieving it, but also trying to move forward. During that time in moving forward there are moments where the mind will throw out a question, "can't believe that happened", because our minds really don't know how to process something like that.

The other thing one tends to do is "retrace" up to that traumatic event too. In that process a person can see warning signs they may not have noticed before the trauma took place. When these warning signs come into better view, a person can begin to feel a lot of guilt because that individual may see a point where they "could have" prevented whatever the trauma ended up being. That really challenged me because I missed the signs that my neighbor's dog was doing damage and that my neighbor was choosing to be negligent. I really blamed myself a lot, why did I not see it sooner? What helped me the most is when my therapist asked me if I had ever seen that happen before, and I had not, so then I realized that the danger signal did not come up sooner because I honestly never saw a dog do what this dog had been doing. I realized that my brain did not send me a warning because it just was not in my subconscious files.

I have no problem believing that you are struggling with this on a deep level as well. This will inevitably bring back anything else in your own history that traumatized you in any way that you did not see coming. This is where the "increased hyper arousal" comes from, hyper aware, hyper sensitive. You have been a strong person, yes, you have seen a lot in your life and you just managed to keep pushing forward too. But this, this has stopped you in your tracks and in a big way too. That is what happened to me too. I did not think about my history at all at first either. When I talked about how the tower of blocks came down because how one that held it all up was taken from the bottom, the blocks did not fall down in a way I noticed right away. You talk about how this was 20 months ago, and how come you are struggling even more now? Well, that is because "now" you are slowly experiencing how "so many" of the blocks have tumbled down. How, it is all interconnected, which it is because it was a trauma that hit ALL OF YOU that is unique "to you".

You are right, a long time ago you reached out for help and that therapist did not help you then either. I have experienced that myself, and what I finally came to see is that at that time the kind of help I had needed was "not there" and when I reached out, yes, I did deserve help, my challenge was genuine, only the therapists at that time did not have the knowledge I had needed that would have helped me.

This therapist that suggested you take a break DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO HELP YOU. That is what is being said to you. You are at a disadvantage because you are the "patient" and you don't know what you need, not your fault.

I have had to have therapy for having BAD THERAPY. Just because a person has letters after their name and charges you $150 for a session doesn't mean that individual actually knows what they are doing. That may sound crazy right? Well, it's true unfortunately. Sadly this is also something that a good therapist is well aware of that is happening too, they hear this from patients all the time. Just because an individual happens to get a degree in psychology doesn't mean they are going to actually be a good psychological therapist. That is what that response you got is saying to you. That is what the lack of response to your nice letter is also telling you too.

This has nothing to do with your worthiness of having a therapist actually "help" you Trace. I had to learn about this myself and when I look back on my records and see what I had said and then see the response, IT IS REALLY SAD because I was really expressing all the red flags and they were totally missed. Well, that only triggered me even more tbh. Again, just another thing to add to my list that I did not see coming that hurt me. Well, that is the last thing someone struggling needs to have happen, but sadly it does happen. Here I am about 8 years later and have now sat with two different , QUALIFIED therapists that are validating that "yes" I had bad therapy.

You are a very challenged puzzle right now, you do deserve the right help so you can slowly work on "your personal puzzle" and find your way to mourn whatever you have lost, and slowly learn how to move forward in spite of it. That takes time, but you really "can" make gains on "healing" and moving forward.

It is hard to go back to therapy if you have had some bad therapy experiences. Trust takes longer, and a good experienced in tuned T will know that.

I think Open Eyes has made some good points above. The age thing though, it's hard to tell with trauma work on what they know. Some older T's are pretty set in their ways and are not trained in the new trauma training that has been out for the last 10 years. My T who I worked with for 6+ years was 10 years younger than me. I'm in my 40's now. I did have an attitude of what the heck do you know, you are too young to know much, well she proved me wrong. haha! I've had a T who was 10 years older than me, but he was unethical and I had one who was 30 years older, but he started to have memory and physical problems.
As far as the money things goes, there are some in it for the money but I know many T's offer free or reduced rates. My T has been giving me support of the last 6 months with no pay at all. She does it because she cares for me and is trying to make the transition to a new T in my new city a positive one.

Trace you just had a very bad egg of a T.

That is true ToFu, an older T can be set in their ways and fail to help too. It depends on if a therapist continues to keep up with whatever "new" is coming out that has been studied and has been found effective treatment wise. The therapist I had went by Judith Herman's understanding of the three stages of healing that she wrote about in her book called "Trauma and Recovery". Her book has been out for quite a while, she spent a lot of time studying trauma patients, was basically a major ground breaker and understanding the "healing" stages of Trauma work.

The therapist I found did work with me on a curve too. These good therapists "are" out there. Often if therapist's network they get to know the ones that are "good" trauma therapists too. The therapist I finally found was not anyone I saw on the net either, I found him through word of mouth tbh.

Well how did go for you guys? Did you offer information or just respond to what they asked? Should I ask for things to do between sessions or is that too pushy? I don't want to make the same mistakes and make this as easy for as well as myself.

Trace, what is going on with you right now? What are your biggest concerns right now?

I know you have talked about "some" things. If you are having flashbacks you need to talk about them as best as you can. You need a therapist that can listen to what your main challenges are now and help you slowly understand them and learn how to work through them/manage them better.

With myself, I went from week to week and talked about any of the challenges I had during the week. What I needed was to talk about what happened, and what was happening in my life as a result too. But that is me, you may be challenged differently.

Well this month is a hard one for me. Dad's BD is the 6th, mine the 16th, then there's Father's Day. We always got together to celebrate our BD's together. Still having a hard time sleeping, seems like that is when the memories start to flood the head, with finding dad and other stuff. So sleeping is hard, once I do get to sleep it's like I have one eye open most of the night.
When I was at the doctors office the other day I kept feeling like someone was behind me and when I realized how many times I looked behind me and no one was there I felt very uncomfortable. Shouldn't surprise me though because I don't want to leave the house most of the time. My concerns is that I'm not getting better and in some areas worse, Some days I feel a little better in some areas and worse in other areas. Can't seem to get a balance.
I feel like I should see that counselor but I get physically sick thinking about doing that.
Just a lot going on.

It can be a challenge to sleep after having a day of triggers. Keep in mind the brain is lost in being able to find a way to process it to begin with, so a day of remembering can mean a night of the brain still not knowing how to process it, which is what the brain does while we sleep.

It is a tough go when it comes to working through a challenge in therapy, it's exhausting in a way the average person doesn't understand too.

When a trauma takes place where the individual is overwhelmed with emotional confusion, it is the left side of the brain that is challenged because that is the part that we use to reason and discuss and problem solve and has a lot of language as well as doing tasks and keeping with the now. So, the right side of the brain where all the emotions are is working overtime where the left side gets too overwhelmed.

See, what you just talked about is all the emotional challenges that these BD's are bring up for you. You have not figured out "how" to get past these days in a productive way, too much "emotional challenge" is there still.

It takes time to slowly get through these days where you can celebrate the positives of that individual that becomes a ritual that slowly steps away from the more confusing/disturbing emotional challenges.

One thing that can be helpful is grief counseling, mourning takes time to work through in this challenge. I also think you need some comforting hugs too because what does help a lot is the oxytocin that is received by physical comforting.

There should be a specific message therapy that is offered for that, it really is amazing how much that helps.

I emailed the new counselor and she set up an appointment for tomorrow at noon. Makes get chills just thinking about it.

Ok, that is good. You can just see what this therapist says and if you like her. Hey, you can always come here when you need support. Most of the members that interact here understand, you are safe.

((Hugs))
OE