Giving up

Richardrahl · Aug 11, 2011, 12:09 PM

why is it so hard to stop feeling, it doesnt seem to matter how how I try or what I do the end result is always the same, I end up alone. They say you reap what you sow but that just isnt true, people take what they need and then leave you, they play you for a fool and twist you up in their words and then when they have finished with you they just spit out the bits they dont want. As every day passes I find i lose more and more faith in people and the world around me. I dont want to feel anything anymore, I just want it all to go away. Im fed up of the disappointment, of the sadness and the loneliness, im fed up of the pain, and the anger, the darkness.

lynn P. · Aug 11, 2011, 12:43 PM

(((Richardrahl))) - I'm sorry you're feeling like giving up. I can relate to feeling exasperated and disappointed without any solution. Just when I didn't think I had any more strength, something inside pushes me to keep going. It was the thought of, not wanting to give the ones who disappointed me, the satisfaction of winning - so I dig my heals in and persevere.

In times like this I learn to depend on myself, rather than expecting it from others which would lead to disappointment. Maybe you need to be more selective who you spend time with and trust. Yes its a tough world out there and some people are bad. All we can do is learn from our set backs and keep on going the best we can. If this was one of those survival shows, you wouldn't give up so I hope you won't now. Hope you feel better.

Richardrahl · Aug 11, 2011, 05:20 PM

Thanks for those words Lynn.

Im just at the end of the road, no matter where I go or what I do, Ill always be judged on past mistakes. The thing is I never used to care, Im used to relying on my myself and I have done most of my life, it just seems that when I think things are going well in a heartbeat its all flipped around and Im back where I started. Just seems easier to stop feeling as feeling just seem to bring hurt and I just dont want to hurt anymore, my life has just been one kind of battle or another, and i just cant feel like this anymore, i just want to lock it all away and be someone new, be a machine, something that cant feel, just function. Feelings cause so much damage, adn scar us in ways that no knife ever could.

lynn P. · Aug 11, 2011, 05:56 PM

Thanks for the reply Richardrahl - I wasn't sure from your 1st post if you're having suicidal ideation or just giving up on people and trying to get along with them? Would moving someplace different give you a fresh start kind of feeling? I know its hard to shed a bad reputation with family and friends - all a person can do is keep on the right road and not care what people think...your actions will speak more than your past.

I know when we let ourselves feel emotions, we run the risk of being hurt - I've been very hurt and betrayed myself. At 1st I was devastated and then I thought, I'm not going to let that person ruin me and I refused to let it be on me. If we don't allow ourselves to feel, then we end up being cold and missing out on the good people/nice experiences.

Open Eyes · Aug 11, 2011, 06:25 PM

((((((Richardrahl)))))))

It sounds like depression talking. Your right, life is hard and we cannot depend on others for our happiness and sense of security in life. It is a hard lesson for all of us.

And your right, if we make mistakes in our past there are going to be times where others will somehow remind us that we are not perfect. And you know what? We are never going to be perfect in life, and we are going to make mistakes.

And your entire post is an expression of dislike for yourself. Do you know that? Because if you really cared about yourself you would be like Lynn and dig in your heels and not let others walk on your spirit and your right to have a free spirit.

And the reason why I know this is I have done this too. I have been very disappointed in others that have crossed my path in life. And I am fighting depression too and it is very hard. And that is when you have to make sure that you are seeing a therapist that can help you to learn how to stop bad talking yourself.
That is what you are doing, bad talking life and saying life is bad because you have judged yourself by the reactions of others towards you.

You have to LEARN how to climb out of depression and it takes time and you have to LEARN how to do the work. You haven't learned that yet and you have a lot of company. Life is like a thing that you have that comes in a big box and has a ton of pieces that need to be put together and there is no real instruction manual or a clear picture of what the end result is supposed to look like. Some people are better than others at figuring some of it out but no one has a true manual, so everyone is basically guessing and yet no one really wants to admit it. And many people try to see if others have an idea of how to read the manual or if they even have one, and if they don't see that someone has a manual they quickly move on to someone else.

So don't think it is all your fault. And a lot of people just pretend they have a manual and as soon as you find out they don't have one either they get all pissed off and blame you. Because most people are not willing to accept that they guessed wrong.

A lot of people have depression because they don't realize that no one has a real manual and everyone is pretty much guessing. Depressed people don't know that yet, they have to learn it. But first they have to stop trying to find a manual that never comes with the box of life or thinking they are worthless because they don't have a manual.

The only thing you CAN do is learn how to accept the fact that there really is no manual and take one day at a time and give yourself a break and do your best as that box called life puts itself together. Every single person comes with a unique box and you are no different.

You just have to learn how to take it one day at a time and do your best and learn how to create good thoughts instead of the bad ones you have now.

Open Eyes

Richardrahl · Aug 11, 2011, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lynn P.

Thanks for the reply Richardrahl - I wasn't sure from your 1st post if you're having suicidal ideation or just giving up on people and trying to get along with them? Would moving someplace different give you a fresh start kind of feeling? I know its hard to shed a bad reputation with family and friends - all a person can do is keep on the right road and not care what people think...your actions will speak more than your past.

I know when we let ourselves feel emotions, we run the risk of being hurt - I've been very hurt and betrayed myself. At 1st I was devastated and then I thought, I'm not going to let that person ruin me and I refused to let it be on me. If we don't allow ourselves to feel, then we end up being cold and missing out on the good people/nice experiences.

yet again thanks for getting back to me. Im not suicidal just sad and disappointed I guess, I am sorry if i caused any unnecessary worry.

I guess you could say Im living my fresh start, but it just feels like vicious circle I go around and around, ending up in the same situations over and over again, always expecting a different outcome only to see it all end the same way everytime. The common problem in all of these situations is me, when ever Im faced with a situation that involves emotion its like I just cant work properly, Im not really sure how to explain it; its like Im not sure how to feel and I get it wrong. My actions speak loud, Ive made a lot of changes most for the better, at least in a professional capacity, but I find people never focus on the good things, its the bad that sticks. Do I expect too much or am I just broken?? I dont really know. Are there any good people anymore, is there really anybody or anything worth feeling for? again I dont really know, all I know is with everyday that passes I find less and less to care about.

Richardrahl · Aug 11, 2011, 07:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

((((((Richardrahl)))))))

It sounds like depression talking. Your right, life is hard and we cannot depend on others for our happiness and sense of security in life. It is a hard lesson for all of us.

And your right, if we make mistakes in our past there are going to be times where others will somehow remind us that we are not perfect. And you know what? We are never going to be perfect in life, and we are going to make mistakes.

And your entire post is an expression of dislike for yourself. Do you know that? Because if you really cared about yourself you would be like Lynn and dig in your heels and not let others walk on your spirit and your right to have a free spirit.

And the reason why I know this is I have done this too. I have been very disappointed in others that have crossed my path in life. And I am fighting depression too and it is very hard. And that is when you have to make sure that you are seeing a therapist that can help you to learn how to stop bad talking yourself.
That is what you are doing, bad talking life and saying life is bad because you have judged yourself by the reactions of others towards you.

You have to LEARN how to climb out of depression and it takes time and you have to LEARN how to do the work. You haven't learned that yet and you have a lot of company. Life is like a thing that you have that comes in a big box and has a ton of pieces that need to be put together and there is no real instruction manual or a clear picture of what the end result is supposed to look like. Some people are better than others at figuring some of it out but no one has a true manual, so everyone is basically guessing and yet no one really wants to admit it. And many people try to see if others have an idea of how to read the manual or if they even have one, and if they don't see that someone has a manual they quickly move on to someone else.

So don't think it is all your fault. And a lot of people just pretend they have a manual and as soon as you find out they don't have one either they get all pissed off and blame you. Because most people are not willing to accept that they guessed wrong.

A lot of people have depression because they don't realize that no one has a real manual and everyone is pretty much guessing. Depressed people don't know that yet, they have to learn it. But first they have to stop trying to find a manual that never comes with the box of life or thinking they are worthless because they don't have a manual.

The only thing you CAN do is learn how to accept the fact that there really is no manual and take one day at a time and give yourself a break and do your best as that box called life puts itself together. Every single person comes with a unique box and you are no different.

You just have to learn how to take it one day at a time and do your best and learn how to create good thoughts instead of the bad ones you have now.

Open Eyes

Thank you Open Eyes. I understand what you are saying and appreciate it. One of my biggest concerns is my ability to torture myself, as a person day to day when I wear my mask I function fine, I run a sucessful business and life should be grand but it isnt. When things are good the first thing I do is self destruct, I take that good thing and I crush it, adn then I twist myself apart for all the damage I did, the draw of letting all that go of just slipping back and letting it all drain away and not feeling anything anymore is just so tempting, I almost feel happy when I think about it...almost

Open Eyes · Aug 11, 2011, 09:16 PM

Richardral,
What you replied to Lynn, I have felt that too. And what you said to me, it sounds like you can achieve but you are so afraid that someone or something is going to detroy it so you cut to the chase and do it yourself.

There is a reason for this, it must go way back, but it is there. Some how something happened a way back when that planted this seed, I know it very well. Well, I didn't know it consciously like I do now and it is part of why have now have depression.

It was almost like for some reason everytime I felt happy or tried to smile, something came and took that smile and made me cry. And for a long time I kept fighting it.
I was successful at things too, but it never failed, someone seemed to come along and either take or somehow make it so it just wasn't so inviting anymore. But I kept on. And I thought I had over come it, oh, what do they say,"forget it, it is over, move on, forgive, just be strong, keep fighting and so on".

Well I did think I did it, I thought I had overcome the ghosts of the past. And then just when I started to once again smile, I saw it all crumble in front of me. And I often wonder, why did I ever bother, did I ever truely think I was going to truely have happiness?

I had a doctor's appointment yesterday, I haven't been feeling well, I have a lot of anxiety issues and they are getting pretty painful and just as I said I also have been fighting depression.

Well, I was nervous about going to the doctor and I had actually asked for a different doctor because my regular one had thrown my medical records at me from the psycward and outpatient doctors after the inncident where I watched everything topple like dominos. I only wanted to renew my perscription of clonazapam so that I could fight off the anxiety and get sleep at night without night mares, chills and flashbacks. But my regular GP simply read off a bunch of words from his copy of my records I didn't understand and told me he was unqualified to prescribe to someone with my conditions. Um, I was under the impression I had been diagnosed with PTSD and the prescription was nothing dramatic.

I left his office in tears and went to my car and read all the comments about me from the psychward and the first therapist and I didn't even understand how all these words were there and what they all meant. And a rush of embarrassment and betrayl came over me.

The only way I could get that prescription is to go to the emergency room and find another person who was qualified to write that prescription. It took me a week to find someone who would see me. It ended up costing me over a thousand dollars to get a bottle of pills that cost $11.00 at the time. Oh, and these pills that were suppose to be non addictive with no withdrawl, definitely have withdrawl symptoms, headaches, nauseousness and no sleep and a lot of anxiety.

I let one ghost out of my closet in therapy to try to explain what would cause me to come to a point in my life where I would utter the words that landed me in that terrible psychward. Ofcouse I hadn't had any sleep in a couple of months and I had been addressing injuries and a death to one of my special animals and I was pretty much in shock and completely exhausted in every single way someone could be exhausted.

If only I hadn't had talked about that one bad ghost from my past, all my psychological side effects of watching so much wiped out, could have been a part of a lawsuite. But oh no, my ghost was going to come to life and the negligent person would be able to know about it and do what ever he wanted with that knowledge.
I can't quite wrap my brain around that one. So I was unable to get treatment, no money, tons of bills and injuries and a business that had no employees so to speak. Ho they were all damaged. All these bills, a need for therapy and no money to pay, and bearly any business left either.

Getting back to yesterday. So I sat in the waiting room and I made sure I didn't take my medication, I wanted my blood pressure and heart checked to see what it was doing when I was experiencing this anxiety that was somehow kept at bay by this medication. At least for about 8 hours.

Well I finally got called into an examining room and the new doctor appeared and he had another doctor with him. I was struggling with anxiety and was somewhat nervous and he wanted this new doctor to participate in my exam. I kept myself together and told him, today is not that day for me, no thank you, but he tried to insist. I had to try to calmly say no again. And then I started to have a flashback.
They didn't notice and left me in the room. I sat in the room with the flashback and those two doctors were two boys that dragged me in a shed at three years old and stripped me of my clothes. I could feel everything, all the fear and and ugency. I had to contain myself and tears were streaming down my face. I wanted to run out of that office so bad, so very bad. And I had to really work at staying there. I wanted to know what was going on with my heart.

And finally the one doctor came back in the examining room and he could see I was probably crying. And then he pulled up those records on his computer and saw the same words that were so wrong. My regular T told me to ask about antidepressants and offered the name of one he thought may help me. It was a no go and again it was suggested that I needed a more professional person for that. And I am sure he saw the ghost too as he sat and read. And I just wanted to run again.

I didn't know why the flashback happened. And yet after thinking about it I realized that it had been set off by being so nervous to begin with and then suddenly being presented with two strangers, that may examine my body.

I realized a lot about myself today. I realize much of the answer to what you are talking about, there is a similarity. But I was not truely conscious of it until today.
I spent a lot of time trying to make up for something that was not right. But somehow it chased me and it prevents me from my happiness today. And I am a very misunderstood person. Everyone thought I was so strong and driven, but I guess I was trying to drive something away or somehow make up for it. But like you deep inside I seemed to suffer everytime I caught a glimpse of happiness.

So, what I am trying to tell you is there is something you need to face, and part of it is yourself. I know what your saying, and how you feel, believe me. I am struggling too. I have to do it too, learn how to overcome it and it is not easy.

Not feeling anything anymore is so tempting. But I have to figure a way out and I am getting help with that. And it isn't easy.

Just wanted you to know, I never had a manual either. I am learning, you can too.

Open Eyes

Open Eyes · Aug 12, 2011, 12:40 AM

I wanted to add that perhaps one of your problems is that even though you have been successful it may have not filled that unknown void. And because of that you never truely appreciated it or it just was not significant enough for you.

The other thing you may feel is that once you create some kind of business that may be successful, you fear it will own you in some way so you let it fall apart or you don't really take pleasure in it. Or it may also draw in some people who, as you say, twist and turn it into something that ends up not being pleasurable.

Can it be easy to lose faith in humanity? Oh yes, it can, especailly if you are a good person and expect others to have your values. There are many people in our world, as always have been, that are just takers and it does hurt. And we actually have many fairy tales for children that do discuss this.

And as I discussed if it looks like you have a manual, you will be approached and even mislead or used or misguided for what you may seem to know or have. But there are nice people in the world as well, and they are not ususally the ones that approach you, they are often more reserved or trapped by another keeper. And the truth is we all are somewhat alone.

And if you are looking for perfection in others, you will never find it. Every single person has flaws and no one is ever truely going to understand you as you do.
So in that we all are somewhat alone.

Think about people who are famous. Ronald Regan didn't really have any friends.
He was pretty much a loner, except for his wife. He had a lot of people who respected him and he had a lot of aquaintances, but no real close friends.

And even people who are very successful or even famous don't really have close friends that truely understand them. And it doesn't always mean your unlikeable or unworthy, it often just means that we are all so unique and somewhat self absorbed trying to find that dam manual that you are never going to get someone who is going to be totally dedicated to just you. It is just human nature to search individually to some extent.

So now you have to learn to let go a bit, and hey, I have to work at it too, we all do. All you have to do is spend time and read the different forums. There is an endless supply of questions and even self blaming and a sense of lonliness in them.
The one thing about PC is that you have an opportunity to find out your not so alone in your feelings and even fears and struggles.

Make sure you find a good therapist and work on learning how to not self negetive talk. It isn't always easy. You are only going to be allowed to live life for just so long so you might as well do your best to find ways to try to enjoy life and learn while you are here. And most of the people you meet in life are only what they know how to be. And no one knows how to be perfect.

Open Eyes

Aug 12, 2011, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardrahl

Thank you Open Eyes. I understand what you are saying and appreciate it. One of my biggest concerns is my ability to torture myself, as a person day to day when I wear my mask I function fine, I run a sucessful business and life should be grand but it isnt. When things are good the first thing I do is self destruct, I take that good thing and I crush it, adn then I twist myself apart for all the damage I did, the draw of letting all that go of just slipping back and letting it all drain away and not feeling anything anymore is just so tempting, I almost feel happy when I think about it...almost

Seems like maybe learning to take life a little slower instead of taking the bull by the horns would be a good step for you. It seems like you may want to plunge in head first a little too fast, take time , think , then step back , and ask yourself, is it truly what you want from yourself, is it good for you.

Richardrahl · 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

Richardral,
What you replied to Lynn, I have felt that too. And what you said to me, it sounds like you can achieve but you are so afraid that someone or something is going to detroy it so you cut to the chase and do it yourself.

There is a reason for this, it must go way back, but it is there. Some how something happened a way back when that planted this seed, I know it very well. Well, I didn't know it consciously like I do now and it is part of why have now have depression.

It was almost like for some reason everytime I felt happy or tried to smile, something came and took that smile and made me cry. And for a long time I kept fighting it.
I was successful at things too, but it never failed, someone seemed to come along and either take or somehow make it so it just wasn't so inviting anymore. But I kept on. And I thought I had over come it, oh, what do they say,"forget it, it is over, move on, forgive, just be strong, keep fighting and so on".

Well I did think I did it, I thought I had overcome the ghosts of the past. And then just when I started to once again smile, I saw it all crumble in front of me. And I often wonder, why did I ever bother, did I ever truely think I was going to truely have happiness?

I had a doctor's appointment yesterday, I haven't been feeling well, I have a lot of anxiety issues and they are getting pretty painful and just as I said I also have been fighting depression.

Well, I was nervous about going to the doctor and I had actually asked for a different doctor because my regular one had thrown my medical records at me from the psycward and outpatient doctors after the inncident where I watched everything topple like dominos. I only wanted to renew my perscription of clonazapam so that I could fight off the anxiety and get sleep at night without night mares, chills and flashbacks. But my regular GP simply read off a bunch of words from his copy of my records I didn't understand and told me he was unqualified to prescribe to someone with my conditions. Um, I was under the impression I had been diagnosed with PTSD and the prescription was nothing dramatic.

I left his office in tears and went to my car and read all the comments about me from the psychward and the first therapist and I didn't even understand how all these words were there and what they all meant. And a rush of embarrassment and betrayl came over me.

The only way I could get that prescription is to go to the emergency room and find another person who was qualified to write that prescription. It took me a week to find someone who would see me. It ended up costing me over a thousand dollars to get a bottle of pills that cost $11.00 at the time. Oh, and these pills that were suppose to be non addictive with no withdrawl, definitely have withdrawl symptoms, headaches, nauseousness and no sleep and a lot of anxiety.

I let one ghost out of my closet in therapy to try to explain what would cause me to come to a point in my life where I would utter the words that landed me in that terrible psychward. Ofcouse I hadn't had any sleep in a couple of months and I had been addressing injuries and a death to one of my special animals and I was pretty much in shock and completely exhausted in every single way someone could be exhausted.

If only I hadn't had talked about that one bad ghost from my past, all my psychological side effects of watching so much wiped out, could have been a part of a lawsuite. But oh no, my ghost was going to come to life and the negligent person would be able to know about it and do what ever he wanted with that knowledge.
I can't quite wrap my brain around that one. So I was unable to get treatment, no money, tons of bills and injuries and a business that had no employees so to speak. Ho they were all damaged. All these bills, a need for therapy and no money to pay, and bearly any business left either.

Getting back to yesterday. So I sat in the waiting room and I made sure I didn't take my medication, I wanted my blood pressure and heart checked to see what it was doing when I was experiencing this anxiety that was somehow kept at bay by this medication. At least for about 8 hours.

Well I finally got called into an examining room and the new doctor appeared and he had another doctor with him. I was struggling with anxiety and was somewhat nervous and he wanted this new doctor to participate in my exam. I kept myself together and told him, today is not that day for me, no thank you, but he tried to insist. I had to try to calmly say no again. And then I started to have a flashback.
They didn't notice and left me in the room. I sat in the room with the flashback and those two doctors were two boys that dragged me in a shed at three years old and stripped me of my clothes. I could feel everything, all the fear and and ugency. I had to contain myself and tears were streaming down my face. I wanted to run out of that office so bad, so very bad. And I had to really work at staying there. I wanted to know what was going on with my heart.

And finally the one doctor came back in the examining room and he could see I was probably crying. And then he pulled up those records on his computer and saw the same words that were so wrong. My regular T told me to ask about antidepressants and offered the name of one he thought may help me. It was a no go and again it was suggested that I needed a more professional person for that. And I am sure he saw the ghost too as he sat and read. And I just wanted to run again.

I didn't know why the flashback happened. And yet after thinking about it I realized that it had been set off by being so nervous to begin with and then suddenly being presented with two strangers, that may examine my body.

I realized a lot about myself today. I realize much of the answer to what you are talking about, there is a similarity. But I was not truely conscious of it until today.
I spent a lot of time trying to make up for something that was not right. But somehow it chased me and it prevents me from my happiness today. And I am a very misunderstood person. Everyone thought I was so strong and driven, but I guess I was trying to drive something away or somehow make up for it. But like you deep inside I seemed to suffer everytime I caught a glimpse of happiness.

So, what I am trying to tell you is there is something you need to face, and part of it is yourself. I know what your saying, and how you feel, believe me. I am struggling too. I have to do it too, learn how to overcome it and it is not easy.

Not feeling anything anymore is so tempting. But I have to figure a way out and I am getting help with that. And it isn't easy.

Just wanted you to know, I never had a manual either. I am learning, you can too.

Open Eyes

Thank you so much Open Eyes, If i can muster even a fraction of your strength then maybe there is some hope for me.

Im just sick of being kicked back down by myself and others, all for caring or trying to be there. I just dont think I know what happiness really is anymore, when I have I dont know I have it, when I do realise I have it I have to destroy it. I dont think Ill ever be capable of getting right. I used to be known for being such a cold, hard person always independent, but its always just been a mask something to protect me from everyone else, to show that even when im not alright really I am. Ill never attain happiness in life because im just not capable of holding onto anything, that makes me feel good and the alternative is to feel bad and Im just fed up of feeling like that. I put myself out there time after time after time only to be told im doing it wrong, only to have it all thrown back in my face. I just want to brick off that part of my mind, just lock it up and lose the key forever.

I just want to be accepted for what I am, or left alone to be nothing. Im tired of the fights and arguments and the misery. Ive fought so hard over the years to make a life for me and anyone that ever wanted to be a part of it, and pepople come adn then I push them away, only to be replaced by someone else who i evntually push away only to hurt myself, maybe its the pain that I crave maybe I need that, maybe thats what makes me feel alive for those brief seconds. but are those few brief seconds worth the pain of feeling, Im starting to think not. I always thought it was feelings that make us unique, but its not we are who we are, but its feelings that make us creul and vicious. Everyday I see less and less to like about humanity, and less and less i like in myself.

If i lock away the feeling monster and unleash the unfeeling monster on the world maybe thats the best way to protect msyelf, and alone is the best way to be, i cant be disappointed anymore, there will be nobody to hurt me again. no more lies, no more problems and all I have to do to achieve that is give up. Just fall backwards into the darkness and just never come back up.

Richardrahl · Aug 12, 2011, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SilentMind

Seems like maybe learning to take life a little slower instead of taking the bull by the horns would be a good step for you. It seems like you may want to plunge in head first a little too fast, take time , think , then step back , and ask yourself, is it truly what you want from yourself, is it good for you.

Thank you Silent Mind, and Im sorry if I said something to offend you i my room. I have tried to pace my life to take those steps one day at a time, you are right I am a little impaient I do wnat it all and want it now so to speak, but pacing hasnt worked for me, I still make the same mistakes over and over again, being alone and worrying about nothing just seems more and more appealing

Richardrahl · 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

I wanted to add that perhaps one of your problems is that even though you have been successful it may have not filled that unknown void. And because of that you never truely appreciated it or it just was not significant enough for you.

The other thing you may feel is that once you create some kind of business that may be successful, you fear it will own you in some way so you let it fall apart or you don't really take pleasure in it. Or it may also draw in some people who, as you say, twist and turn it into something that ends up not being pleasurable.

Can it be easy to lose faith in humanity? Oh yes, it can, especailly if you are a good person and expect others to have your values. There are many people in our world, as always have been, that are just takers and it does hurt. And we actually have many fairy tales for children that do discuss this.

And as I discussed if it looks like you have a manual, you will be approached and even mislead or used or misguided for what you may seem to know or have. But there are nice people in the world as well, and they are not ususally the ones that approach you, they are often more reserved or trapped by another keeper. And the truth is we all are somewhat alone.

And if you are looking for perfection in others, you will never find it. Every single person has flaws and no one is ever truely going to understand you as you do.
So in that we all are somewhat alone.

Think about people who are famous. Ronald Regan didn't really have any friends.
He was pretty much a loner, except for his wife. He had a lot of people who respected him and he had a lot of aquaintances, but no real close friends.

And even people who are very successful or even famous don't really have close friends that truely understand them. And it doesn't always mean your unlikeable or unworthy, it often just means that we are all so unique and somewhat self absorbed trying to find that dam manual that you are never going to get someone who is going to be totally dedicated to just you. It is just human nature to search individually to some extent.

So now you have to learn to let go a bit, and hey, I have to work at it too, we all do. All you have to do is spend time and read the different forums. There is an endless supply of questions and even self blaming and a sense of lonliness in them.
The one thing about PC is that you have an opportunity to find out your not so alone in your feelings and even fears and struggles.

Make sure you find a good therapist and work on learning how to not self negetive talk. It isn't always easy. You are only going to be allowed to live life for just so long so you might as well do your best to find ways to try to enjoy life and learn while you are here. And most of the people you meet in life are only what they know how to be. And no one knows how to be perfect.

Open Eyes

Hey Open Eyes, I dont think for perfection in others I understand nobody is perfect but maybe I look for happiness or understanding, and maybe I should be looking at myself for happiness. The problem is when I look at myself I dont like what I see anymore. I see the changes in myself as time has passed, I just dont know how to relate to people anymore, its amazing what can happen in a few years. Handling my business is easy because it just requires 1 mind set "work" and when I focus on that I dont have to worry about anything else, its all just about working its one of things I like about my work its a time when Im allowed not to feel, I dont have to feel, I just deal with facts, no guesses no wondering just cold hard facts. I dont worry about the success or failure of my business, if it ever failed I have many other skills to fall back on. I worry about the success and failure of who I am as a person, what will I ever achieve, who can I really be, who am I. I think I look to others for completion, to give me a purpose.

I Know I have many issues and I know where most of them stem from, how to start fixing them thats something I dont even know where to begin, I dont have a T my situation is somewhat complicated. I know I am the problem in all of this, but i just dont know how to fix myself.

Thank you again for replying

Perna · Aug 12, 2011, 09:56 AM

Richard, emotions only tell us what we are feeling, they don't tell us what is wrong and they are not the "cause" of why we are sad or hurt. Just because we feel sad, that's not the problem or even a symptom, it's information.

What do you do when you get business information you don't like? Do you refuse to do business? No, you figure out how to use that information to your advantage so the actual business comes out better.

Emotions are the same; when I have a negative emotion, I look for a negative situation within me or "out there" and figure out how to work with the situation to make it better.

If you push people away and that makes you feel bad about yourself, try some therapy to see if you can learn why you push people away and how to solve that negative action. But if you kill the noticing and response, you cut off your nose to spite your face; your information about what is going on with you in yourself or the world gets killed and you are are working blind.

Besides, we can't literally kill our feelings; they're there we can only fool ourselves that they are not or that they don't matter. It's like deciding not to get a medical test because it might show you have cancer. If you hurt, you need help! I would see if I could find a counselor who could help me?

Open Eyes · 11:34 AM

(((((((Richardrahl)))))))))

Perna is so right Richard. We cannot run away from our emotions and do need to seek help and guidance. Very good post Perna, you have many good posts here at PC.

I can sympathize with you Richard, I am at a similar spot in my life too. That is why I told you some of my past. And I too feel like I am the problem somehow. And yet I know that I have been abused and misunderstood many times in my past. I have had many people kind of shock the hell out of me to be honest and I didn't realize how it really effected me. And I know exactly what you mean about that brick wall and wishing somehow you could no longer be hurt or disappointed by others, me too.

And while you know you have issues you may not really be aware of or have a true perception of those issues. I didn't either, I have been working on that and trying to understand my own reactions to my past and how, like you, it seemed like I kept making the same mistakes, even when I tried to approach things differently. And I know exactly what you mean about the disappointments in humanity. And everyday I actually pray for a way to find my way through and I silently ask, what is wrong, why cant I seem to fix this?

But I am slowly seeing how my past effected me and how it all added up to the place I am now, a depressive embarassing state of mind. But I have to be honest too, I am what I know too and I have faced many disappointments in my past that involved other people. And I think I did put up a brick wall in a way and it didn't work I guess.
Because all it did was go to one place in my mind and never got truely resolved, and I have to say I had no idea that happened and I do feel a bit self betrayed.

After that experience in the doctors office I was totally confused. I really could not understand why I flashed back and they must think I am a nut. And after getting home and trying so hard to understand why I had all those emotions I quietly thought about my childhood and how I really handled it. And what I tried to accomplish in my life. And I realized that I was trying to make up for what I didn't feel in my childhood, I didn't feel safe. And when my world got destroyed, my husband described me as being in my own little world. So I thought about that too. And to be honest Richard, I was in a way. I was hiding the pain and constantly trying to make up for it in other ways. And it may have seemed like I was never satisfied,
and deep inside I wasn't, I was never truely safe, I still encountered people who hurt me and I kept trying to ignore it and move forward.

And that is what I mean about getting help, because you cant really do it all on your own. My therapist is not doing it for me but he is there and is helping me find my way through my own maze. Most of my revelations have come from my efforts to really search my feelings. Because, at the moment I am somewhat frozen and lost.
And I can really see it, it is that child that shoved a breau against her door and hid in her room and tried to make at least her own little world safe. My neighbor blew down the door and left me completely exposed in so many ways.

So I understand where you are and how you are feeling. All I am saying is that NOW, you have to take time out and understand yourself better, a deeper understanding.
That is the first step Richard. That is what I have been doing myself. And as I am doing that I can see how the painful things collected and it is only the beginning.
I have to LEARN how to deal with it and HEAL.

But at least by coming to PC and getting to know the pain of others I have realized that I AM NOT ALONE. I am alone in many ways, BUT HOW I FEEL AND STRUGGLE IS HOW OTHERS FEEL AND STRUGGLE TOO. So I am beginning to really see HUMANITY for what it is behind the physical presense of others.

Though I am not standing in front of you Richard, I am in front of you here, I am proof that you are not truely alone in your human experience. You and me and many others here have NEVER BEEN TAUGHT HOW TO TRUELY UNDERSTAND HUMANITY.
No one ever taught me how to be me in a world where people do hurt and deceive, and I hid in many ways from it. My feelings are genuine and so are yours, so what that means is that we BOTH HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO ACCEPT HUMANITY ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL. And it is not easy Richard. And it is not just you and me that feel we have somehow failed, it is many. So if it is many than we must learn how to lower our expectations of ourselves and LEARN how to slowly look at life differently.
AND IT IS NOT AN EASY JOURNEY. And I am right here with you trying to learn too, and I am every bit as disappointed and frightened and embarrassed as you are. And I am angry and hurt and I am not really sure about what comes next. I have stopped and I am looking and it has been painful and I even feel guilty and somewhat feel exposed too. And all I know is that I am working on it one day at a time, and I still don't have a manual.

What I do know is that I have stopped and finally am taking a real look at who I am and how I have looked at and dealt with life experiences thus far. And I have to learn some things and even accept my own errors. But I also have to realize that I did the best I could, many things were not my fault, and I am just HUMAN AFTER ALL.

You deserve to get help and support Richard, at least you have come here and you are reading this and you are finding out YOUR NOT REALLY ALONE IN THIS HUMAN EXPERIENCE AFTER ALL.

Open Eyes

Richardrahl · Aug 12, 2011, 11:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perna

Richard, emotions only tell us what we are feeling, they don't tell us what is wrong and they are not the "cause" of why we are sad or hurt. Just because we feel sad, that's not the problem or even a symptom, it's information.

What do you do when you get business information you don't like? Do you refuse to do business? No, you figure out how to use that information to your advantage so the actual business comes out better.

Emotions are the same; when I have a negative emotion, I look for a negative situation within me or "out there" and figure out how to work with the situation to make it better.

If you push people away and that makes you feel bad about yourself, try some therapy to see if you can learn why you push people away and how to solve that negative action. But if you kill the noticing and response, you cut off your nose to spite your face; your information about what is going on with you in yourself or the world gets killed and you are are working blind.

Besides, we can't literally kill our feelings; they're there we can only fool ourselves that they are not or that they don't matter. It's like deciding not to get a medical test because it might show you have cancer. If you hurt, you need help! I would see if I could find a counselor who could help me?

I am the negative situation Perna, Im the problem.

Not feeling is easy, I was brought up not to feel only to do whatever was necessary to survive, and my life followed that path for a long time. Its only now Im older that I see I cant continue like this. I push people away because it will avoid the inevitable disappointment that always follows, hurt myself before they can hurt me. We say happiness is just a series of moments but Ive ran out of those moments. who can help me? who can put the monster back in its cage, not me and its my monster. At least if i beat them to the punch then my suffering is by my own hand, I can blame no one else in this life for my pain other than myself.

Richardrahl · 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Open Eyes

(((((((Richardrahl)))))))))

Perna is so right Richard. We cannot run away from our emotions and do need to seek help and guidance. Very good post Perna, you have many good posts here at PC.

I can sympathize with you Richard, I am at a similar spot in my life too. That is why I told you some of my past. And I too feel like I am the problem somehow. And yet I know that I have been abused and misunderstood many times in my past. I have had many people kind of shock the hell out of me to be honest and I didn't realize how it really effected me. And I know exactly what you mean about that brick wall and wishing somehow you could no longer be hurt or disappointed by others, me too.

And while you know you have issues you may not really be aware of or have a true perception of those issues. I didn't either, I have been working on that and trying to understand my own reactions to my past and how, like you, it seemed like I kept making the same mistakes, even when I tried to approach things differently. And I know exactly what you mean about the disappointments in humanity. And everyday I actually pray for a way to find my way through and I silently ask, what is wrong, why cant I seem to fix this?

But I am slowly seeing how my past effected me and how it all added up to the place I am now, a depressive embarassing state of mind. But I have to be honest too, I am what I know too and I have faced many disappointments in my past that involved other people. And I think I did put up a brick wall in a way and it didn't work I guess.
Because all it did was go to one place in my mind and never got truely resolved, and I have to say I had no idea that happened and I do feel a bit self betrayed.

After that experience in the doctors office I was totally confused. I really could not understand why I flashed back and they must think I am a nut. And after getting home and trying so hard to understand why I had all those emotions I quietly thought about my childhood and how I really handled it. And what I tried to accomplish in my life. And I realized that I was trying to make up for what I didn't feel in my childhood, I didn't feel safe. And when my world got destroyed, my husband described me as being in my own little world. So I thought about that too. And to be honest Richard, I was in a way. I was hiding the pain and constantly trying to make up for it in other ways. And it may have seemed like I was never satisfied,
and deep inside I wasn't, I was never truely safe, I still encountered people who hurt me and I kept trying to ignore it and move forward.

And that is what I mean about getting help, because you cant really do it all on your own. My therapist is not doing it for me but he is there and is helping me find my way through my own maze. Most of my revelations have come from my efforts to really search my feelings. Because, at the moment I am somewhat frozen and lost.
And I can really see it, it is that child that shoved a breau against her door and hid in her room and tried to make at least her own little world safe. My neighbor blew down the door and left me completely exposed in so many ways.

So I understand where you are and how you are feeling. All I am saying is that NOW, you have to take time out and understand yourself better, a deeper understanding.
That is the first step Richard. That is what I have been doing myself. And as I am doing that I can see how the painful things collected and it is only the beginning.
I have to LEARN how to deal with it and HEAL.

But at least by coming to PC and getting to know the pain of others I have realized that I AM NOT ALONE. I am alone in many ways, BUT HOW I FEEL AND STRUGGLE IS HOW OTHERS FEEL AND STRUGGLE TOO. So I am beginning to really see HUMANITY for what it is behind the physical presense of others.

Though I am not standing in front of you Richard, I am in front of you here, I am proof that you are not truely alone in your human experience. You and me and many others here have NEVER BEEN TAUGHT HOW TO TRUELY UNDERSTAND HUMANITY.
No one ever taught me how to be me in a world where people do hurt and deceive, and I hid in many ways from it. My feelings are genuine and so are yours, so what that means is that we BOTH HAVE TO LEARN HOW TO ACCEPT HUMANITY ON A DIFFERENT LEVEL. And it is not easy Richard. And it is not just you and me that feel we have somehow failed, it is many. So if it is many than we must learn how to lower our expectations of ourselves and LEARN how to slowly look at life differently.
AND IT IS NOT AN EASY JOURNEY. And I am right here with you trying to learn too, and I am every bit as disappointed and frightened and embarrassed as you are. And I am angry and hurt and I am not really sure about what comes next. I have stopped and I am looking and it has been painful and I even feel guilty and somewhat feel exposed too. And all I know is that I am working on it one day at a time, and I still don't have a manual.

What I do know is that I have stopped and finally am taking a real look at who I am and how I have looked at and dealt with life experiences thus far. And I have to learn some things and even accept my own errors. But I also have to realize that I did the best I could, many things were not my fault, and I am just HUMAN AFTER ALL.

You deserve to get help and support Richard, at least you have come here and you are reading this and you are finding out YOUR NOT REALLY ALONE IN THIS HUMAN EXPERIENCE AFTER ALL.

Open Eyes

Thank you for sharing Open Eyes both yours and Perna's words are greatly appreciated.

I suppose I should really tell you a little of my past and maybe that will offer an insight. I am pretty much a child of neglect, a child left to raise children, hated by a young mother who saw me as the thing that ruined her life. She was in an abusive relationship so he would lay into her and she would lay into me. When she finally left that clown she just went crazy and would disappear for weeks at a time leaving us with no food or money, and I would be left in charge of a 1 year old and 2 year old, only being 6 myself Im sure you can imagine it wasnt easy, I beg stole and borrowed to take care of myself and 2 kids, cant say I was a good kid but I survived and Im very well educated it just took a bit longer for me to get around to it. There are a lot of other things this is just an outline. So here I am at 33, said family despise me, and I focus very much work, I work hard so and please excuse the cliche I play hard but as Im moving through my life I just find that people dont surprise me anymore nothing is new or fresh, every now and then I find something good but then I just lose it again, like I know what will happen and how it will all end before it does, so whats the point in trying anymore? Its like a reverse midas effect, the only things Ive ever been good at require me to be cold or calculating but when it comes down to just being me, Im always wrong. I know I have some childhood issues anyone can see that but I just dont feel thats the problem anymore. It was all another lifetime ago. its like something is failing inside, something is broken, and I can let it break and continue to function or I can try and fix it and live again.

I fought for a lot of my life and I have many scars; the physical sacrs I wear as A reminder to show me I am strong and I can heal, but the mental scars are what scare me, I cant see them I dont know how deep they cut and Im at point now where I dont even have a point of reference anymore. I continue to alienate those around me even when they offer support. closing all the doors and windows and throwing myself into nothing but work.

Open Eyes · Aug 12, 2011, 04:33 PM

Quote from Richardrahl: "I fought for a lot of my life and I have many scars; the physical scars I wear as a reminder to show me I am strong and I can heal, but the mental scars are what scare me, I cant see them I dont know how deep they cut and Im at point now where I dont even have a point of reference anymore. I continue to alienate those around me even when they offer support. closing all the doors and windows and throwing myself into nothing but work."

Sounds familiar and it does have to do with your past. Oh I know it seems like a lifetime ago but it is more a part of you than you think. You are what you know and from what you are describing about your past, look at what you learned and what you never got. And you are pretty much mimicing your comfort zone or what you know, survival of providing. That is pretty much what was required of you when you were young. You pretty much learned survival without love and even true appreciation. And no wonder why you want to even destroy whatever success you have, think about it, I pretty much called it, it brings a sense of entrapment that goes all the way back. And to be honest, no matter who comes into your life, YOU WILL NOT KNOW HOW TO RECEIVE. And you unconsciously don't feel worthy.

From the depths of me I AM TRUELY SORRY. YOU DID NOT DESERVE WHAT YOU LIVED THROUGH AND IT WAS NOT YOUR FAULT. How can you possibly expect to know how to relate to people WHEN YOU NEVER LEARNED IT? Not in the way you should have learned it. When did you ever truely experience trust, appreciation, safety and love, and even a sense of childhood happiness? Richard, you never learned it, how can you expect to understand or be anything you have never learned to be? And you have hinted that somehow, even though you did so much, you are astranged and perhaps blamed for somehow not providing those things to the ones you HAD to provide for. Something has been expected of you that you simply never learned or truely had, and one of those people who seems to expect it is yourself and yet, you can't even know how to fulfill that either. THAT IS NOT YOUR FAULT. And you are even hating yourself for it. That is just not being fair to yourself. And ofcourse you always seem to know what happens because you never learned how to see any kind of giving loving relationship in any form last beyond some initial promise.

You have looked at boats but never experienced being in one or taking it on a journey, you have seen pictures but never taken one or held a camera, you have seen people run and play on the beach but you have never done it, you have seen families walk the streets and dine out but you were never in one that did that, you never felt it, you never actually did it. You may have had sex but never made love.
You have basically stood outside life and never truly been in it. And the thought of being in it scares you so much that you damage every chance to truely participate.
And somehow you don't believe you deserve it. NONE OF THAT IS YOUR FAULT.

We do not have the same past but we are similar. Every time I smiled I was chased with unhappiness. Every time I wanted to be safe, I somehow failed to be safe. ( I was good at hiding) And I could very easily say, I might as well give up because I have been disappointed so many times I dont even know where to look anymore. We may have different ghosts, but we both have ghosts. And one thing I can see that we have in common is that we have somehow sacrificed ourselves for the benefit of others. And even then we were not appreciated. Everyone around me had issues too, and I lived my life around all of them. I understand it when you say, nothing surprises you anymore, nothing is new and fresh.

And the one thing we have in common is that neither of us knows how to correct it.
But it doesn't mean we cant learn and we are definitely not alone. And at 33 you are still young enough to learn and it isn't going to be easy. You have a lot of issues that are hard wired into you and you are truely not totally aware of how much. ( I wasn't either)

And you know what? You do have a gift, you are a good provider, you have learned how to survive and that is your comfort zone. I have learned how to give and give up and survive too, and that is what my comfort zone was. Until I broke and put my foot down, now I am somewhat ostrasized and ill. I will be deemed better if I can get up and fight my way back to giving in again to others. Or somehow able to rebuild that brick wall that kept the ghosts from the past from invading my everyday life.

The new and the fresh is in the learning how to finally address those ghosts. And depending on how many a person has and how long they have been surpressed, it is going to take time. I have been working on it for about a year now, but mostly the past four months. And I have addressed it in a lot of different ways. And I get to a point where I think I am getting stonger and something happens and I tumble. Like what happened with the doctor and dealing with my attorney and other areas that are pushing me and I am not strong enough to fight back, and I don't really know how to do that yet. I am still working on it. And it is not in my comfort zone at all.

Basically I would have to say that the barrier of my proverbial door was smashed down and I have all these ghosts barging in my room and I am not sure how to handle it all at once. And I am the only one that can truely see and feel them and they hurt. And they are very embarrassing too. And even though they are not my fault I still have to learn how to deal with them and they do tire me out. ( and I had no idea I had not really dealt with them)

But I am working at it one day at a time and that is the best I can do. That is pretty much what your going to have to do too. You most likely have PTSD too only you don't know it. I have had it for a long time, I didn't know it until my door was smashed down. And then the ghosts started to intude into my life in flashbacks. And I had to learn what it meant and why.

Richard, you CAN learn and there CAN BE SOMETHING FRESH.
But it is going to take time to KNOW SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU KNOW NOW.

All I can say is, that whatever was there a life time ago is still there today, you just don't always consciously know it. But unconsciously you live around it and have comfort zones you don't quite understand and things you avoid that you don't understand either. And your not going to let something in that you never learned how to have or do or accept either. Others didn't allow you to have it when you were young, that is what you know, so you devise ways to not let yourself have it either. That is what you know. But only you can change that, and you have to learn it, and it can be difficult, but not impossible.

Open Eyes

cin1 · Aug 12, 2011, 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardrahl

why is it so hard to stop feeling, it doesnt seem to matter how how I try or what I do the end result is always the same, I end up alone. They say you reap what you sow but that just isnt true, people take what they need and then leave you, they play you for a fool and twist you up in their words and then when they have finished with you they just spit out the bits they dont want. As every day passes I find i lose more and more faith in people and the world around me. I dont want to feel anything anymore, I just want it all to go away. Im fed up of the disappointment, of the sadness and the loneliness, im fed up of the pain, and the anger, the darkness.

I understand . the longer i live, the more i realize all of what you said is true. But when i stopped feeling, it seemed worse than being dead yet still alive. give yourself time, one minute at a time. i really like that quote. cin

Richardrahl · 05:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cin1

I understand . the longer i live, the more i realize all of what you said is true. But when i stopped feeling, it seemed worse than being dead yet still alive. give yourself time, one minute at a time. i really like that quote. cin

Hey Cin and welcome to PC.

For me right now the world is just a place of rejection and disappointment. This morning I stood on my balcony dinking a coffee and watching the people go about their lives and all I felt for them was pity, because one day they would wake up and see that all they are emotional vampires people there to take all they can and then move on to the next victim.

Maybe they pity me too, maybe they see what I am

I tell myself there must be some good people left in the world, someone who can help. You are right one minute at a time, one day at a time.

Thank you

Aug 15, 2011, 10:48 AM

you have plenty of people who care about you.

you just need to let them.

Aug 15, 2011, 10:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richardrahl

why is it so hard to stop feeling, it doesnt seem to matter how how I try or what I do the end result is always the same, I end up alone. They say you reap what you sow but that just isnt true, people take what they need and then leave you, they play you for a fool and twist you up in their words and then when they have finished with you they just spit out the bits they dont want. As every day passes I find i lose more and more faith in people and the world around me. I dont want to feel anything anymore, I just want it all to go away. Im fed up of the disappointment, of the sadness and the loneliness, im fed up of the pain, and the anger, the darkness.

the world is fine. people are what they are. you know how to communicate. you do it well. but now you need to put those communication skills to use at the right time.

Richardrahl · Aug 15, 2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stardusted

you have plenty of people who care about you.

you just need to let them.

Cmon hun, you know better than most what lies beneath

Richardrahl · Aug 15, 2011, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stardusted

the world is fine. people are what they are. you know how to communicate. you do it well. but now you need to put those communication skills to use at the right time.

when is the right time?