[seeking]

Some of you have read a few posts of mine on the relationship section. I really need to talk now because I think I may be losing my marbles. I need help. Tomorrow morning I will be driving to the city to find a psychologist or psychiatrist, whichever we need. Here is my story:

I have been married for almost 10 years, my second marriage. We have been together for 15 years. I have a daughter from a previous relationship (my husband has always only tolerated her and the 2 of them don't see eye to eye) and have also been married before. I raised my daughter alone for the first 10 years of her life. We have a close bond. My husband's son came to live with us 2 years ago. For the first approx. 10 years of our marriage I have had a steady work and a good income. Since we have moved abroad I do not have a steady income anymore. My contribution to the household is not a financial one but rather a domestic/personal one. Until recently I had a studio (I am a photographer) and had a reasonable income but still did not contribute to the household. I used my earnings as pocket money when going on holiday or for beautifying the house. Previously, when I held down a full time job I did contribute whatever I could and my daughters financial requirements were my responsibility. We have always had this 'my money/your money' scenario. Probably because we have your children and my children. We are now again living in a different country where I am trying to start my career again. This is not the big issue though, I am only trying to sketch a bit of a background to what is happening in my house at the moment.
My husband has always seemed a bit depressed but more so since we are living abroad. He complains about not being valued, being under appreciated in his job, underpaid etc etc. He complains about me not supporting him in his dream of having a game lodge in Africa. He actually wants me to live the dream with him and do the necessary courses so that I can 'qualify' as a game ranger, etc. I love wildlife, I love to photograph it, I don't even object to living in the bush, as long as I can get to the city every now and then. I need to be around people more than he does. He blames me now for his unhappiness, he says I am the one who is making him unhappy. So I answered with the usual, no person can make another unhappy, you are either an unhappy soul or not. I tried to explain that at all the places I followed him with his work I have always made a life and good times for myself. He has been the one who complains about the job, made no friends etc. He says I am making him unhappy because I am not sharing in his dream. I reiterated that a personal dream is a personal thing. My dream is to have a wedding venue with a difference, where I could do photography to heart's content and also make a difference to someone's special day. If I have to do this on a game lodge, so be it. I tried to explain to him that he needs to follow his dream and that his dream should not be dependent on me supporting it or not. I don't expect him to support me every day in my dreams. He is basically saying that if I don't support him in his dream then it is the end of our marriage.

So now I am at a cross road. This man is driving me crazy and to drink. He has finished a bottle of Gin in 1 week (and me a bottle of wine), he is a beer drinker, so Gin is very very strange indeed. I know I sound ratty, but my goodness I don't know what to do anymore.

I come home tonight after shopping. He is sitting in the kitchen with his son talking and looking very pleasant. Smiling etc. As soon as he saw me his face went into a spleen mode, it looked like all he has has died and gone away. It is hard to explain, but I imagine people in Palestine who have lost everything looks like that. So later on I asked him why he looks like that and he says he does not want to talk. I asked him why he did not look like that around his son and his response was that his son does not cause him the kind of misery I do. So of course I asked what kind of misery I cause him and he said he does not want to talk about it. Well I am confused. His son has caused him major problems in the past, flunked school, drugs, sex, problems with own mom etc. He seems to be a nice kid though, always polite, says goodnight etc. Just now I went to the kitchen, he was there putting his dinner plate in the dishwasher. He has this habit of sighing, so I asked him why he always deep sighs like that, I said usually people who have a lot on their minds do that, people who are weighed down by problems do that. He said people of his starsign do that (never heard that one before). So I said well people of his startsign and mine are suppose to get on extremely well. Why don't we? He just said he does not know. Poor kid is squished between his dad's emotions and living in a place that is so-so and cannot really go back to living with his mom and living with a 'stepmom' who does not understand what teenage boys are all about.

But this is not the issue here, the problem is my husband who seems depressed but I do not know enough about the signs of depression to be able to tell. He treats me like ******, talks down to me, tries to bully me, would not let me stay one week extra on holiday to spend the time with family and friends, tells me we have to find a cheaper place to live but still wants to drive the expensive car. It boggles my mind, I really think I am the one losing it.

What am I missing here. I do need help.

I really do appreciate you listening, it is much better than talking with myself.

[dexter]

seeking,

I feel for your dilemma but I am also impressed with the insight that you have. The biggest thing is understanding that your husband's unhappiness is due to his thoughts and actions and do not depend on you. I think seeking professional help is an excellent step to take, it may help you cope with things, may help prvide some insight as to what is going on with your husband, may lead to him getting the help he may need. Ultimately this is his burden and if he is determined to cause you heartbreak and blame you for everything then there won't be much you can do about it.

Is it possible that the closer to his dream that he gets, the more frightened he gets, and is therefore using you as an excuse to stay put in his comfort zone? Is his dream realistic? It sounds from your description like this is something that he has been working towards, but then when you talk about the expensive car I wonder if he has thought about what difficulty it might take to get his dream moving, and whether it is important enough for him to take the next step in spite of the difficulty. Might he be blaming you so that he doesn't have to make that decision?

I think he is very lucky to have someone who seems so supportive of his dream. You are willing to up and move with him to Africa to do this, and I would think that your photography career could be a good match for that location so it wouldn't necessarily be a total sacrifice on your part. You may even be able to contribute to his business as a photographer. But he apparently wants more, he wants you to not only share and support his dream but to also make it your dream. I personally don't think that is very reasonable unless it happens naturally.

Good luck with this. Kudos for planning to see a doctor tomorrow as it is taking an active step in trying to resolve this rather than letting it sit in limbo and in misery. I hope things work out for you and for your husband. Maybe your husband does have a problem with clinical depression and maybe it can be resolved with some work, after which he will be much freer to pursue and to actually be able to enjoy his dream.

------------------------------------
--http://www.idexter.com

[seeking]

Dexter, as usual great insight. Thank you for your quick response. I am feeling a little low tonight, so probably did not write the most positive stuff. I do believe we need help if we want to save our marriage. At this rate he will leave his new job after 6 months and we will move on. He also says things like the financial burden has become too much and I need to help. But he contradicts himself by buying an expensive car and playing golf in a very expensive place. Don't misunderstand me, I will never deny him these. He earns the money and should surely have some benefit.

At the same time that he is so unhappy he also says that he is very happy doing the job he does now. I think it is because he is getting recognition with a new project he is handling now.

He does not want me to attend a course on wedding photography while away on holiday in another country as he refers to this photographer as my 'boyfriend', not friend.

3 days ago he said to me he no longer wants to try to solve our relationship problems. He thinks it is the end of our relationship, we have tried so long now and he is no longer interested. He feels like packing a bag and getting lost somewhere. The responsibilities are too much for him and he just wants to get up and go. I must say I am getting close to that point now.

I suppose what is also keeping me here is that I am semi-dependant on him. My financial position is not such that I can leave immediately. But having said this, I DO NOT believe that a relationship with someone else will be any better. We have invested 15 years into this relationship, I am NOT at the point yet to give up.

But I do not know where his depression is coming from, if it is depression. I don't have the skills to deal with this, I truly feel like running away. It is very hard to live with someone like this.

His mood swings are up and down like a see-saw from day to day or hour to hour sometimes.

You may be right when you say the closer he gets to his dream the more scared he becomes. Yesterday at lunch we had a discussion about his dream of the game lodge. He said to me that he now finally knows what the problem is with our relationship. It is the fact that I don't support his dream. I asked him later on in the discussion how come he has not finished his business plan and he replied it is because he is not motivated. He is probably so depressed today because I had such an open and honest talk with him yesterday and he cannot handle the fact that he himself is responsible for his happiness.

You know Dexter, I don't know what he is thinking, he shuts up like a vault. I am sure any person's dreams can materialise. He would need approximately $8 million to make this dream come true. He would need investors for this. But before any of this can happen he has to finish his business plan, which he has not touched in ages. He has asked that I sit down with him and go through the business plan, which I am willing to do, but not really interested. Every time we schedule time to do this he changes the time or cancels. Eventually I did not persue it, I feel it is up to him to action it. It is the old saying of 'taking a horse to the water, but you cannot make them drink'.

I think you are right, he wants me to live his dream with him.

Thanks for listening, I am driving myself crazy with my own voice tonight.

[Rapunzel]

It sounds like your husband is confused about what he wants. A lot of the things that he does could be a sign of a mid-life crisis or depression, but he is also treating you in an abusive way. For example, he tries to make you feel bad for not contributing financially, but won't let you take the class that you need in order to start contributing, and neither will he do his part by giving up a luxury or two. He devalues the things that you do, and doesn't let you spend time with freinds and people who would support you, and also questions your motives, implying that you might have a boyfriend. The division of "your kids" and "my kids" doesn't contribute to family unity and harmony either.

You sound like you have your head on straight and know what you would like to do, and also want to support your husband and keep the family together. I think that getting some professional help makes a lot of sense. Hopefully your husband will be able to realize what he wants and how valuable you are, and will learn to support you and allow you to support him. I sincerely hope that he will. If he doesn't, you can get counseling yourself, and get some help with ways to deal with the family dynamics and to get your needs met. I think you are on the right track. Please let us know how you are doing. It sounds like you have a very interesting life!

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[alm15]

Hi Seeking! It doesn't sound to me like you have the problem at all. It sounds like you've moved with him wherever he's wanted to go. If that's not being supportive, what is? You sound like an iltelligent, capable woman. You don't deserve to be belittled. This situation sounds aweful for the kids. Alcohol won't give you solutions. It will do the complete opposite. Try to step back and look at the situation. Ask yourself what you need. Try to find your center again. I'm sorry you're going through a difficult time. You'll get through it. It can be very challenging when living with someone depressed to not get sucked into their stuff, espcially when they're trying so hard to do just that. My thoughts will be with you! Good luck!

[seeking]

Rapunzel, Thanks for the reply. Yes I have also thought that perhaps this is a mid-life crisis, especially when he bought the expensive car. I think he manipulates me in a very clever way. I sometimes don't even see it.

He has offered to pay for me for a course on Game Lodge Management. He has done the course and thought I might enjoy doing it as well, so he went ahead and registered me without first discussing it with me. I am just not interested at this stage and have not even looked at the course content. I am a rather optimistic person and thought if I looked at the course content I would probably find it interesting and end up doing it. I believe nothing in life is every wasted. But right now my focus is on my photography. Any spare time I have I wish to spend developing more skills etc. Surely that is acceptable?

You know I am really proud of what he has achieved in life and tell him so. He is in IT and is really good at it. He has great vision and I believe he is in the right job. I just can't get that he could physically sap me from my energy by just looking at me with that depressed look on his face. It baffles me that he can be so depressed about life in general when there is so much to be happy about.

Anyhow thanks for listening, I will go for counseling, will keep the Forum updated, so we can all learn and will probably still carry on talking with myself.

[Rapunzel]

Sometimes supporting your spouse involves learning more about what they are interested in, such as taking that class that he registered you for, but it sounds like he wants you to choose that over the photography that you really want to do. I think that if you feel pressured into doing what he wants at the expense of your dream, you will both find it unsatisfying. It's easy to think, like he seems to, that if you really like something, your spouse will too, but it doesn't work that way, and spouses don't have to have all of the same interests. My husband is really into scuba diving, and he would love for me to do it with him, but I'm just not interested enough in it to be willing to get cold (which I really don't like) and get past the fears that I have, and he respects that. Sometimes we wish that we had more interests in common than we do, and sometimes one or the other needs to bend a little, but one should not have to sacrifice all of their interests for the other.

<font color=orange>"If we are going to insist that people pull themselves up by their own bootstraps, we must ensure that they have boots."</font color=orange>

[hamstergirl]

Seeking:

Having depression myself: I know from experience that your moods can bounce all over the place. He may be pointing the finger at you, he's depressed and depressed people can't think objectively, even when the solutions are right in front of their faces.

I know this for a fact: Because I myself am swimming in depression and wallowing in darkness. I can quote Scripture one hour and then hours later, be down in the dumps, sometimes minutes later. My moods are going all over the place and I'm attacking myself. This has to make me a very frustrating person to be with right now and I know that. It is a great source of stress. But my greatest fear is that my friends will grow sick of me and my depression and abandon me. If I give up, no one will help me.

This may not be objective, but it is what I believe to be "the truth" right now. If I were on an even keel, I would probably believe very strongly in my friends. I grew up in a very unstable environment, so I never was on an even keel.

YOU ARE NOT THE PROBLEM! Your husband can't just expect you to drop everything you hold dear to follow his dreams, or "else". Love is about compromise, learning to live with another human being, who may or may not agree with you, but who you love all the same. The problem is in your husband's head. HE'S DEPRESSED AND NOT THINKING RATIONALLY. They say one shouldn't make big decisions while depressed. THAT INCLUDES BUSINESS DECISIONS.

Another thing: speaking from personal experience, ALCOHOL DOES NOT HELP DEPRESSION, IT MAKES MATTERS WORSE, ESPECIALLY WHEN CONSUMED IN LARGE QUANTITIES. IT IS SLOW SUICIDE.

Now, even regarding what I said about abandonment a few lines back, if he starts abusing the stuff long-term or starts hurting you, or screaming at you: It is your duty to protect yourself first, irregardless of how he may beg you to stay.

You may have to leave him to save your own sanity or to protect yourself. He has to want to help himself to some degree, or at least realize there's a problem.

I'm intelligent with a POWERFUL will to survive, with a unique view on life. I may be constantly attacking myself to the exasperation of my friends and family, but I am taking the steps I need to get the help I require. Small steps it may seem to them to be sure, and they may seem insignificant to me. But for me, to even reach out at all is a revolutionary step. I'm also journaling my deepest thoughts and handing them to my psychiatrist.

Most people do not have that level of gall. Depressed people can only take small steps and fight to stay in the moment. Anything bigger is too overwealming, such as staying positive, or getting help.

Your husband may need to reach bottom before he realizes there's a problem and reaches out. He may need encouragement. Keep encouraging him to seek help. If need be, enlist the support of others, friends, collegues, family, specialists, support groups, anyone you feel you can trust to help you.

Don't sit on this too long and don't stay silent out of a sense of shame. 40% of people with depression are never treated for it and from what I hear, it is highly treatable. (I'm not going on my own beliefs here, they're faulty right now, but ask the others here if there's cause for hope. You'll be happy with the answer. I certainly like the service I've gotten here ) It is a terrible disease to suffer with needlessly. I lived with it unknown from childhood probably. You DON'T want this thing nesting in your husband's mind.
Trust me on that.
Good luck.

There is a thing more crippling than cerebral palsy: the prison of your own mind.

Seeking - Hamstergirl's post was perfect. I can't think of a much to add. (We are so lucky to have her here!) Please look at the home page of this site for the area on disorders and read up on depression since you are interested in learning more. It sounds like if you both want to work on the marriage, seeing a counselor together will be needed in order to learn how to talk through your issues effectively in a supportive environment. Good luck!

Michelle/HG - Thank you again for sharing yourself with us. Your expertise is going to help so many people.

Emmy

"Language is a Trojan horse by which the universe gets into the mind. ." -- Hugh Kenner

[seeking]

Thank you to everyone who has responded. I am so grateful for such good advise. I did not expect to find this level of support, thank you.

I will be seeing a therapist on Monday for the first time. At the moment my husband hardly talks with me so he will not be open to seeing a therapist right now. After I have spoken with her on Monday I will take the next step and follow her advise. I tried to find a male therapist for my husband's sake (I thought he might feel more comfortable discussing his problems with a man rather than a woman) but could not find a Western educated male therapist.

I find it most difficult to have to put on a facade and be a hypocrite. Tonight we have dinner with some of his corporate customers and it should be interesting to see how he treats me then in front of others.

I am beginning to well up with emotions and constantly have to tell myself to look at the big picture and not feel sorry for myself. This is harder than it sounds because as soon as you find yourself alone your mind starts working overtime and invariably you start to analyse again.

I am not someone to pity myself but do feel the breakdown is close. Last night I stayed up until 2am in the morning working on a portfolio to present to a creative director from a magazine. An hour before my meeting this morning he cancelled and we will re-schedule it for a later date. This little incident sent me spinning, almost out of control. I had to talk hard with myself to keep control or I would have lost it. I have not had a job for the past 4 months and it is eating at my self-confidence. On top of this I try to motivate my husband and maintain a good relationship with his son. Oh boy, this does sound like self-pity. :0) I did get out of the mood quickly though, I sliced open some vegetables and photographed the insides and found that a mushroom has a very interesting [in]side to it..... :0)

I am looking forward to talking with a professional, someone who would understand the problems and give us tools to work with, solve our problems and save our marriage.

Thanks for listening, I did talk less with myself today and more with my cat.....

[alm15]

Good for you for getting help.