Ideation

Maybe this violates the posting policy. If it does, I'm sorry, I'm considering retiring anyway.

I'm thinking about it. I've spent a couple of hours already reading more about my reasons why, which only makes me more certain there's no other option. Change isn't only impossible but undesirable. So I started looking up methods...

In short, what kind of affairs should one have in order before suicide? I'm in a bit of debt and it feels wrong to off myself with those debts outstanding, like cheating in a way. But I don't know if I can deal with the shame and disgust of my own situation much longer, not long enough to pay them off. Nor do I think I could hold out.

I'm sorry for this post, but other sites are pretty vague about "getting things in order". Maybe I'll try a hotline later.

Scientia, I and many others here know the thoughts that come along with ideation that you describe. I am hoping that the fact that you posted here for help indicates that really you don't want help putting your affairs in order but are looking for some hope for an alternative and some relief to all of these thoughts that take over our brains when we are depressed.

Please act on your instinct to call a hotline. Try a few if you need to. My first call was unsuccessful, my second call immediately following got me to a hospital with a friend and that was ten years ago and I am still here because of that.

Please call a hotline or talk to someone. Help is available and the thoughts running through your head feel practical but they are the result of depression.

Hope you find some help and once you are on your way we here can offer understanding and support.

Honestly, I worry that this post was just another manifestation of the thing that set me off: my entire psyche is one huge victim complex. And there's no way out of it.

In the time since posting this, I went to church, then got some food. And thought a little about methods: I have two versions of a very effective one in walking or bus distance, but the thought of actually doing anything made me burst into tears. This isn't the closest I've ever come (that was a couple months ago, shoving a bottle's worth of aspirin into my mouth then spitting it all out a few seconds later), but it's the most seriously I've thought ever.

I'm rethinking the hotline too. I've only used mental health lines once and they were useless. What do you even say? "I want to die/kill myself" are kind of duh statements, not very helpful. What could they even do for me? No one's going to convince me I have worth, no one's going to magically make me strong and powerful enough to take responsibility for my life... what then? I don't think I need to be hospitalized, I know from experience that won't do jack...

But I'm still here, haven't even gotten rid of my account yet.

I don't know if this thread will be removed or not, but, NO ONE wants you to do "it", and it would be wrong to give you advice other than to try to direct you to get help.

I've been where you are several times. I found a way out each time.

Please call 911 if you are in danger. You are worth saving.

Please Don't Do This!

If you do, there will be a hole in the Universe
where you're supposed to be and that will be a
very sad thing!

((( Scientia ))) , I think we'd all love to see you overcome whatever problems you face as much as you would. You have to still be around in order to accomplish that. Please listen to the advice listed so far, and post as much as you need to.

I vividly remember being exactly where you are now in terms of feeling at wit's end with no better choices. One question I asked myself was, if I can put this much energy into ending it all, surely there has to be a way I can apply myself to fixing problems that have put me in this state of mind? That's all I really wanted - a resolution to problems, tangible improvements, not leaving the world.

i know how you feel...
but this isnt the answer... its not even an answer...
its not a solution...
talk to us so we can try to hold each other up....
you are worth surviving....
i really really know how you feel...

Dissociation is a damn powerful thing - allowing one to be totally distracted and even laugh as long as a pressing issue is out of mind.

Yes, I'm putting off talking. I think that scares me almost as much as dying. I tend to feel I'm better at expressing thoughts in writing.

I appreciate the sentiment, even if I can't believe it. I guess this all comes from a feeling that there's nothing more I can do, except maybe just exist for it's own sake. I don't want to do that, though.

I want to say it's unlikely I'll actually do anything... but I can't say that for certain. Like I said, I've never thought this seriously, or felt this hopeless. Is it really just depression, or more weakness and failure?

Here, this explains a lot: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...XqDFy9LFOtEEqw

I seriously question what's out there for me, if anything. I realized I'm almost incapable of communicating without exaggeration or self-denigration. I am absolutely guilty of using people as emotional waste receptacles; I have no idea how to do otherwise. Even the methods I thought of to actually do something - use my negativity as a propellant to success - apparently falls under "victim mentality". And of course, I almost never act on any advice or idea.

I'm in no immediate danger, if anything I'm back to my routine of watching pointless videos to pass the time. But I do wonder how long I can keep this up.

i am trapped too...
i dont see an exit or escape besides what you are thinking of...
but i cant accept that fate...
i dont want to die... i just want to be happy...
just want this to stop...

i feel the longer i go through this the weaker i get...
it gets harder and harder... but im trying to reach out and grab onto anything to slow my descension down... maybe even grab something that can pull me out of the abyss...

after dealing with it for so long its hard to keep fighting...
but we're here for you... and we dont want to lose you...

I don't know how much I can accept all the "we don't want to lose you" stuff, from anyone. I've absorbed too much internet cynicism that's finally kicking in: I'm an annoying total stranger, the only reason anyone here expresses any concern at all is from a moral feeling of obligation, a pang of conscience or a sense of camaraderie thanks to similar experience. It has little to do with me, though I'm narcissistic and needy enough to latch onto it.

Or maybe you guys are exceptions and are particularly empathetic and actually do care. I can just infer.

On that note: elevatedsoul, I definitely know what you mean. I mostly want the guilt, shame, and general pain to stop. But I doubt it can in life: at best I might be able to mask it - but that would take a level of work I doubt I could pull off.

i dont feel obligated to tell you that i care about you - not one bit...

im talking to you because i know how you feel... i know how it feels to think no one cares... i know how it feels not to have anyone to pick you up and help you walk just a few steps...
i know you know... im not here because i feel its an obligation to try to stop people from doing something bad... im here because im trying to stop myself from doing the same thing you are talking about... and hoping that i can help others that feel like me to stop too...

i dont talk to anyone in real life about these things because of the things you said - most people dont care and they will just ask you how you are doing out of some type of habit like its just a greeting... they dont really care how you are doing...

but i care how YOU are doing... i really want you to feel better too...
i really wish i could do more, i wish i could take it away from everyone that suffers with these things... but the most i can do is try to keep myself alive and try to be as compassionate and helpful to others in similar situations as mine as i can...

its not because i feel obligated to help a stranger really... i just want to give you a little slither of hope... that maybe someone in the world really does care...

if there is absolutely anything that i can do within reason just tell me

All I care about is the human being expressing great pain and if I can help, even a little, that is what I want to do. I know we're faceless entities, but especially on this forum, we do have certain bonds that the general public does not have. keep posting, friend.

No you're not an annoying total stranger, and no I'm not posting out of moral obligation. I don't know you so I won't comment on your worth. The reason I am commenting here, and many of the posts I comment on, are the ones where they strike a chord.

One of your followup posts struck my heart even more. When I was in deep ideation many years ago, and again only recently, I also had specific plans, I had props in place, and thought about it constantly. And at times when I would think about it I would, like you, burst into tears. It was bad. I would cry constantly in my car and often start crying at my desk. My manager at work has been supportive--he lets me sit in his office when if I have a crying spell--and knows depression although he has a hard time understanding what is going on. What he DOESN'T know is that all of those times in his office I was crying because I could not see any path other than suicide for the constant pain I was in.

Please try a hotline again. For me it was awkward too, that's why my first call didn't go well. I stumbled in what I was saying and the person on the other end criticised me. Actually I was so shocked at that that I called again.

A call to a hotline is not going to cure you or make you feel better. Going into the hospital isn't going to stop these feelings.

What they WILL do is tap into that part of you that has you post here, has you thinking of a hotline, has you bursting out in tears when you think about suicide. Some part of you wants help, even if you don't believe that there is help or hope, some part of you wants to believe it.

I can tell you that there is help and hope. I did not die ten years ago. The friend that took me to the hospital had to come back to my house to get clothes and toothbrush for me, and he saw my suicide tools laid out as I was ready to go through with it. He read the suicide note that I had written and printed.

That was ten years ago. Getting well was not easy, it was a long journey, but that journey was filled with hope and eventually the support of friends.

Depression won't let you see that hope. That is what depression does. I can tell you over and over that there is hope, it can be waving in front of you like a flag, glowing like a beacon, and depression will block it out, dismiss it, that is what depression does. It is not sadness, it is a defective way of thinking that we have no control over because of whatever is going on in our brains. But it is fixable.

Listen to me and the others here, there is hope, and listen to that part of you that wants to believe there is hope, as evidenced by your words and tears, and take a leap of faith.

911 or a hotline... More recently I found crisischat.org link. Mixed results, sometimes I haven't been able to get online, but for me when I did connect it was much less awkward than trying to talk on the phone. That's just me but it is another avenue you can try.

Eff the guy that wrote that "victim" mentality stuff ... For every article like that I'm fairly certain there are at least a hundred (or more) that can refute the hell out of it! ... Besides, people that blame the victim for their pain and suffering are most often the very abusers that are causing their pain and suffering in the first place, so I ain't buyin' into that BS!

Suicidal Ideation is always on the back burner for me ... It's part and parcel of the C-PTSD I developed from all the abuse I grew up in, and I've been to that door a time or two myself ... Failing one attempt & getting admitted IP by the therapist I had at that time, then being scared enough to check my own butt into the hospital IP the next time it got bad enough that I actually thought about acting on it ... I was right where I needed to be both times, because it kept me safe until the intensity of it passed.

It's taken 23 years to get where I'm at now, and I'm so glad my attempt failed ... My mantra now is, "I ain't giving the bastids THAT!" ... The bastids being my toxic family of origin and THAT being my life!

I decided after the 2nd time I was in the hospital to just leave the ideation on the back burner ... I can always choose that option if I so desire, and in the meantime, it took a lot of pressure off of me and has allowed me to discover some things about myself I never would have had I succeeded.

I hope you choose to stick around and discover some things about yourself and your condition too ... Mental Health Issues are not a choice, they are a serious condition ... It doesn't mean you are a failure, weak, defective, a victim, a loser or anything like that, and anyone that tries to tell you any different is sicker than you are, believe that!

Also believe that you are worth getting the help you need no matter how many times you have to try before finding what works best for you -

Suicide NOT Included!

Sincerely,
Pfrog!

Again... I think most if not all of the people here aren't posting out of obligation... What's different here than on the rest of the cynical internet is that we don't sympathize, we empathize, because we've been there, felt the same things, and maybe are feeling them now.

Also again... It seems like a mountainous worth of work that would be impossible to achieve. And while it is a lot of work, there's a part of your brain that is lying to you that is telling you it is impossible or isn't worth it. Therapy, medications, can get that depression part of the equation out of the way so that you can begin to find some hope and relief that makes the work accessible and worthwhile. But you have to take that step, make a call, get some help.

Isn't hope supposed to be a bad thing? A willfully ignorant delusion for irrational people? Yes, this is more ideology I've absorbed from other, smarter people. Whatever hope is, I want some. Specifically some that lets me believe that yes, there is something I can do, some way past, through, or around these feelings. Because I have a damn strong self-preservation instinct, I don't know if I could do it. Somewhere I guess there is a sliver of hope that things can change, just a little. And I guess I believe it.

Also, lostallhope.com says to wait three days to make sure you really want to do anything. The feelings have abated now but who knows they could be full force again by this evening. Now it's "on the back burner" as Pfrog was saying.

Or just people who can't fathom feeling that way. I made another thread here involving very similar comments about how people who self-loathe are master manipulators looking for attention and basically being emotional vampires. The same person, when told how difficult it is to get past emotional issues simply responded with "Move faster."

Like, why? What's hackslashing my emotional problems out of existence going to do for me, if there's nothing to direct my new self towards?

At the same time, said article describes me perfectly, painfully, but the proposed solution is worse than the disease. Lie I said, I can't imagine functioning without negativity about myself. It's just...normal.

It's hard to believe that any hope is real when suffering from depression. Take a leap of faith that if you seek help you will find it.

Better than the alternative of suffering on the brink of suicidal thoughts.

[noun]
Hope:
1, a feeling of expectation and desire for a certain thing to happen.
"he looked through her belongings in the hope of coming across some information"
synonyms: aspiration, desire, wish, expectation, ambition, aim, goal, plan, design;dream, daydream, pipe dream
"I had high hopes"

2, archaic
a feeling of trust.

verb
1. want something to happen or be the case.
"he's hoping for an offer of compensation"
synonyms: expect, anticipate, look for, be hopeful of, pin one's hopes on, want; wish for, long for, dream of
"he's hoping for a medal"

it depends how you define hope...
for me - just the feeling of just wanting to be happy... the feeling of just wanting to have a content life with fewer pains... that is my hope... desire... want... goal...

to me hope is more of a goal... rather than an expectation of something magical and impractical...

From what you've described here I don't think that the clock stops on "back burner" thoughts.

Wait, what! "Wait three days"? I think that is misguided given how much you are pain over this. Do it now or as soon as the thoughts impede again.

Wait three days before committing suicide. Don't do it on impulse, is what they meant. Not wait to get help.

Cripes, I write a lot.

At this point... it sort of feels like my most likely option is just getting by, try to fix myself somehow, keep the hopeless feelings at bay. Which is aproblem though - how do you give a goal your all if deep down you feel it's pointless?

Also, so many people here have the "in pain" mood. And that little avatar always makes me so sad when I see it.

see no other options - if there are no other options... your goal will be your main focus...

i have alot of ideations too but its something i fight tooth and nail with...
i will win... i can succeed... i have mental illness but it doesnt mean it is over - not until its over over... and im not gonna give up that easy... not gonna let those demons win...

Well said elevatedsoul

you matter to us

Thanks guys. I mean that. I'm not watching the thread super closely at the moment, just checking in a bit. I now feel like I made a scene, especially not feeling as acutely as this morning. Just kind of a blase emptiness.- where do I go from here? Is there anywhere?

And I feel like I need to explain myself, clearly.