[haunted_by_my_past]

My marriage hit rock bottom about 3 weeks ago when my wife hit me with the famous line, "I love you but I'm not in love with you". We had a fight between us about 6 weeks prior during which time she barely spoke to me at all and would not discuss the issue. Well it turns out that what happened six weeks prior was not the issue, but the proverbial last straw. Here's the background... I assure you this will get interesting shortly.

My wife and I have married for 13 years and together for 15 total. We have three children: 12, 9, and 5 years old. When she was pregnant with the 5 year old, an incident occurred which caused me to admit to her (8 years into the marriage, 10 years into the relationship) that I had often crossdressed when I was younger and occasionally in my adult years(always in private). This of course hit her like a ton of bricks, as she alternated between upset, feeling betrayed that I never told her, feeling sympathy for me, etc. We discussed with marriage counselor for one session, and we each had individuals sessions briefly. She did not feel the sessions were working for her and she quit going. I completed several sessions with a therapist who specialized in people like myself, and he eventually discharged me saying that I had things other control. We sorta swept the problem under the rug, with the understanding that it was not going to be tolerated in our home and that I would not do it anymore. The baby was born shortly after and we rarely spoke of it ever again. Occasionally she would ask me if I was having "urges" and I always tried to be as honest as I could that "yes, sometimes I still think about it, but I'm not doing it". She has never seen me dressed, I have never tried to get her to accept that part of me, never tried to justify it, never tried to make it part of our lives. To me, it was a non-issue.

Fast forward 5 years ... apparently she never got over it. As the fight from 6 weeks ago occurred, her years of struggling with this issue just finally took over. She basically told me she has no passion for me, that she doesn't know if it would ever return, that she has struggled with this off an on for 5 years and it's never gotten better. She still refuses to talk to a therapist or a marriage counselor or anyone... other than her Mom (who in her opinion, this is not that big of a deal).

So where are we right now? We're in that mode of, do we stay together for the kids? Are we better off separated? Where one day I think she still loves me and cares for me, the next day I think she wants me to leave. She always reminds me that we are here "because of you". Yet this is the only beef that she seems to have with me. She acknowledges that I treat her well, that she has no question about my feelings toward her and that I truly do love her, that I work hard for her, etc. She says it "sucks that she can't get past this" because other than this, her life was perfect. She has said very clearly that all our issues tie back to that one night. I think her ideal situation right now is for us to stay together for the kids - but I think it's really because she doesn't want to be a single mother with three children, have to find a job, and possibly struggle. Not fair to me (or her) to stay in that situation with someone who may never tell me she loves me again, may never kiss me, or have sex with me again. But I feel like if I stay I still have that .00001% chance that I can win her back.

As a husband, I clean, I do my share of taking care of the kids, I have a good job, I work a lot, but I'm always home when needed, I wash my own clothes, I do all the cooking, ... in short, most of our friends know that I do way more than most husbands do, and most think too that she takes a lot of that for granted - though I think that may have a lot to do with 5 years of pent up tension... she forgot how to appreciate what I do for her, or maybe she thinks I just owe it to her. ????

I personally do not want the marriage to end. I love her with all my heart and it would truly kill me to see her with someone else. If she would change her mind tomorrow I would have no resentment whatsoever about what we went through, and would never ask for an apology. I understand to a degree where she's at..., I just feel like she's throwing away 15 years, over something that was basically an issue for one night. I even spoke to a priest about it, and surprisingly even he thought the crossdressing was really a non-issue given everything else that I told him about our marriage prior and since. He can't understand why she is so "black and white - with no gray in between". She doesn't like to talk about it, so I'm having a hard time getting specific details about what she is hung up on. She says she forgave me a long time ago about the betrayal for not telling her, but I guess it tarnished her image of me and she can't get that out of her head.

So my question... to the ladies: when you start feeling this way, what in the world can possibly change my situation? Have any of you been in this situation where you found out this type of secret years later (with an otherwise perfect husband) and you could never get over it? As I see her continue to withdraw from me, is it possible that a separation could be a wake up call for her and force her to deal with her feelings? My fear is that it would completely backfire and she'll realize she's much happier without me.

I feel like I'm reaching the end. I would fight until my death for her, but I have to realize at some point that I just may not be able to win this one. I started keeping a journal to keep track of things that were said between us and how I feel from day to day and how she treats me daily. Things are tense (and quiet)... we don't fight much, but it's getting to the point where we almost don't talk at all. We have good days and bad days. I don't think she's having an affair, but she does get a lot of attention from men, and I'm afraid that in this "pretend" marriage that she is proposing that she would have no reason to tell another man "No".

Any advice or thoughts would be appreciated. I tend to ramble so if there is more detail needed, please ask. I'm an open book here right now and desperate for advice.

Thanks.

[AAAAA]

Hello Hanging and welcome to PC!

There is one statement in your post that had red flags flying high: "with an otherwise perfect husband..." First of all, as you well know, marriage is difficult, messy, and stressful. So if that comment was literal, then there is something else going on that you're not seeing.

But I'll give you my perspective as a wife who looked over at her husband one day and said "enough, why should I have to deal with this another day?!?" I did not think I would ever be in love with him again. In fact at the time, I could not remember what I was attracted to in the first place. I was bitter and angry. I'm not proud of this but I became a world class bee with an itch. The more I dished out, the more he took and that made me respect him even less.

Our marriage such as it was had to end. We separated. And truth be told during those 18 months my life was just as I wanted it. Things were how I wanted them to be; everything was neat and orderly and ever so peaceful, because in my mind he was the route cause of all that was negative in my life. My husband's issue is that he is bad with money. He's exceptionally intelligent but you put a $ and decimal point in those numbers and somehow he can't do basic math.

Reconciliation was never an option in my mind. I had my fill and I was finished. He was also very hands on with the kids and cooking and cleaning. While we were separated, he continued to make our children his #1 priority.

I began a "serious" relationship with literally the first man that made me laugh. He turned out to be the biggest horse's @ss that I'd ever met. After that, I tried going out for coffee a couple of times, but no one measured up. I was going to do it right this time, I was not going to settle. He also did some soul searching and realized that he was entitled to be loved and respected for who he was as a person.

Eventually we became friends again; and we started talking about topics that had nothing to do with the children. As it happens, I liked who he turned out to be. His version of the story is that he was always waiting for me to come to my senses, but I grew a lot during that time as well. As a single mother of four children you have to put things in perspective.

We really needed that time apart. I had to learn to let go of the little things and communicate when things were not going well. (I'd been the "you should know what you did wrong, if I have to spell it out for you then you don't know me at all type".) HE had to learn to make his needs known. That by pretending my behavior didn't bother him was making the situation worse instead of better. We decided to give it "one more shot" with the agreement that we'd put 100% in, but if it didn't work out we'd get a divorce because the yoyo thing was not for me.

That was 18 years ago. Now when things get rough, and they have over those 18 years, I can look at the situation and ask myself if this is important or am I letting those little life annoyances cloud my judgment. A friend from HS once asked me how things were going with hubby and I. The honest answer was/is that some days I love him so much it's hard to breath and other days I'd just as soon kill him as look at him. The love days far out number the kill days .

We needed that separation so that I could learn that new isn't better or even easier. It's just new baggage that I would have to deal with.

Sorry for the book, but what I would suggest is to take some time and ask yourself what you want out of life (regardless of your marital status). Demand them. You deserve them. Do not settle.

[haunted_by_my_past]

AAAAA, thank you very much for the response. I'm pretty sure you hit the nail right on the head. I think that is the reality that I am just in denial of right now. As I said in the original post, her "wants" right now I believe are driven by the fact that she doesn't want to struggle - yet she's afraid of living the rest of her life unhappy with me. My problem is, I don't want to have to go through the pain of attorneys, trying to protect my companies, protect my reputation if she decides to run her mouth, we would probably have to put the house up for sale in order to fund separate living arrangements, and I don't want to hurt my children when I DO believe that she will probably have the same epiphany that you did.

I think she is going through a mid-life crisis a little early (she's 36). She's had body image issues for years, but now all of a sudden she's in fitness mode, and wanting boob job and tummy tuck which she has wanted for years, but now it's all of a sudden a priority. It's like all of a sudden nothing is good enough, including me, and things have to be fixed immediately. But is this "mid-life" crisis and body image issue driving her dissatisfaction with me - or are these things preparation to get back on the market? I can argue either way. If it weren't for the timing of everything occurring, I probably wouldn't even question.

You said there might be something else going on ... she has a lot of new friends lately, and I think she may be comparing their life to hers and I guess she thinks everyone else has it better. These new friends don't know me well, and thus have no loyalty to me or don't "have my back" if she starts complaining. The older friends all knew my contributions and would constantly remind her (often noting jealously that their husbands barely did half of what I do for her).

In the meantime, I have been trying to do more things for myself. I spend less time around her where I used to spend most of my evenings next to her. I am spending way more time with the kids doing activities on the weekends. Went for a happy hour with an old friend after work recently. I know that in order for me to become attractive to her again, I will have to make myself happy first... so I am starting to do that, but I'm hurting like hell in the meantime and it shows.

I'm afraid it may come down to the separation, and I have to prepare myself for the storm. I think if she could ever put this one issue behind her - and it may take frustration on the dating scene like you saw to convince her that I'm not so bad, though that will absolutely kill me - she can and will be happy with me again. I've read a lot of stories of people being in her situation who have come around - though admittedly the fuel behind the "one problem" was different... and that's what I don't know if she will EVER get past.

Thanks again for your response. Any further feedback is much appreciated!

[anneo59]

Originally Posted by AAAAA

Hello Hanging and welcome to PC!

There is one statement in your post that had red flags flying high: "with an otherwise perfect husband..." First of all, as you well know, marriage is difficult, messy, and stressful. So if that comment was literal, then there is something else going on that you're not seeing.

But I'll give you my perspective as a wife who looked over at her husband one day and said "enough, why should I have to deal with this another day?!?" I did not think I would ever be in love with him again. In fact at the time, I could not remember what I was attracted to in the first place. I was bitter and angry. I'm not proud of this but I became a world class bee with an itch. The more I dished out, the more he took and that made me respect him even less.

Our marriage such as it was had to end. We separated. And truth be told during those 18 months my life was just as I wanted it. Things were how I wanted them to be; everything was neat and orderly and ever so peaceful, because in my mind he was the route cause of all that was negative in my life. My husband's issue is that he is bad with money. He's exceptionally intelligent but you put a $ and decimal point in those numbers and somehow he can't do basic math.

Reconciliation was never an option in my mind. I had my fill and I was finished. He was also very hands on with the kids and cooking and cleaning. While we were separated, he continued to make our children his #1 priority.

I began a "serious" relationship with literally the first man that made me laugh. He turned out to be the biggest horse's @ss that I'd ever met. After that, I tried going out for coffee a couple of times, but no one measured up. I was going to do it right this time, I was not going to settle. He also did some soul searching and realized that he was entitled to be loved and respected for who he was as a person.

Eventually we became friends again; and we started talking about topics that had nothing to do with the children. As it happens, I liked who he turned out to be. His version of the story is that he was always waiting for me to come to my senses, but I grew a lot during that time as well. As a single mother of four children you have to put things in perspective.

We really needed that time apart. I had to learn to let go of the little things and communicate when things were not going well. (I'd been the "you should know what you did wrong, if I have to spell it out for you then you don't know me at all type".) HE had to learn to make his needs known. That by pretending my behavior didn't bother him was making the situation worse instead of better. We decided to give it "one more shot" with the agreement that we'd put 100% in, but if it didn't work out we'd get a divorce because the yoyo thing was not for me.

That was 18 years ago. Now when things get rough, and they have over those 18 years, I can look at the situation and ask myself if this is important or am I letting those little life annoyances cloud my judgment. A friend from HS once asked me how things were going with hubby and I. The honest answer was/is that some days I love him so much it's hard to breath and other days I'd just as soon kill him as look at him. The love days far out number the kill days .

We needed that separation so that I could learn that new isn't better or even easier. It's just new baggage that I would have to deal with.

Sorry for the book, but what I would suggest is to take some time and ask yourself what you want out of life (regardless of your marital status). Demand them. You deserve them. Do not settle.

AAAAA, your post was so good and so lovely, and I hope it is helpful for Hanging. I am going through something similar like you, and this is of immense inspiration to me. Both me and hub know grass is often greener on other side, and then sometimes brown or weeds when you get there. I also think that we sometimes have too high expectations in marriage, though we should not either deal out or submit to abuse! Thanks again!

[Jannaku]

I am sorry to hear that your marriage is on the rocks. From what you have written it appears that your wife is hung up on the fact that you have cross dressed and is unwilling to accept this or even discuss it in a therapeutic way with a professional. I find that very sad and it is also sad to think that your marriage may dissolve because of this. In the scheme of life and in marriage I personally don't perceive your cross dressing as being a sin worthy of destroying your relationship. I have to be honest and say that her lack of compassion and understanding in this regard is disappointing. Marriage vows typically include "for better and worse, in sickness and health" etc and these words exemplify the true meaning of love and marriage. No marriage is perfect which is why couples often need to work at it and often need to accept the shortcomings of their partners. I am at a loss as what to advise. Obviously, couples therapy would be great but if she has closed her mind and does not want to address this then you would be wasting your time. As AAAAA pointed out, maybe she needs to do what she feels is necessary (e.g. separate) before she will realize that what she has left was better than she realized. I admire your courage for telling her about your cross dressing and I do feel sorry that you have been punished by her for this to the point where your marriage now hangs in the balance. Chin up and I hope that you can resolve this problem without compromising your marriage and happiness.

[lynn P.]

Sorry to hear about your marriage problem. Its very unfortunate your wife is reacting this way and not willing to work on this. Does she by chance think you might be gay and this is why she's reacting this way? The majority of cross dressers are totally straight men. The fact you've kept this private and not expected her to accept you while you're dressed this way, should be acceptable IMO. Have you asked her if she's worried about the gay issue?

If this were me, I would rather accept this minor problem than deal with infidelity as I am now. I don't think you should live in this cold marriage, giving her everything/being a good husband just for the kids. She needs to decide if she really wants to throw the marriage away just because of the cross dressing. I've heard of husbands who even wanted to go out to dinner with their wives while cross dressing. Have you explained why you kept this from her - not because you didn't love her but probably afraid of her reaction.....you likely felt embarrassed. She needs to fully understand she can't act cold and still get all the comforts of marriage. Life will be harder if you split. Explain to her she really needs to do her part of this marriage or give it up. Best of luck and don't settle for less than you deserve.

[hamster-bamster]

I think that she is an unappreciative ***** if she does not see the value you continuously add to the marriage by doing all the cooking and other things. I suggest you leave her immediately and wish her luck finding another husband who will do all of the good things you have been doing while not being a cross-dresser. I do not think that her chances of finding such a husband are good, but if she proves me wrong, more power to her.

You very clearly deserve better. Plus, she free-rides on you. Stop that - see a lawyer about joint custody, etc.

The priest you talked too demonstrated excellent judgment when he pointed out that she does not see shades of gray. People who are unable of seeing shades of gray are very dangerous; monsters, basically. It is not safe to grow old next to such a person. You are much better off without her. She has basically shown her true colors but not telling you - her partner - about something so important. She allowed that tension to grow to enormous proportions and then hit you with that famous line that says that she is not in love with you. OK, not in love with you so she can go. To hell with her!

I cannot tell you how many women would love to have such a nice hard-working husband who does not even need them to embrace his desire to cross-dress but just states that desire in neutral terms without expecting anything. Scores of women would love to have you as a husband!

[haunted_by_my_past]

Thank you everyone for the kind responses. It's looking more and more like the separation may be necessary. I'm getting to the point as the distance becomes more and more between us, that even if it backfires on me, then I will be ok. I've had plenty of time to be upset about this, and it's bordering on anger now. I do think I deserve better than what is being offered to me right now, and so does my kids, and so does she if she truly feels the way she says she does.

AAAAA, I responded to your post yesterday but it still hasn't cleared the "review team" yet. But what you described as far as your feelings toward your husband seem to be exactly where she is right now. And I'm hoping the outcome will be the same as yours - though the dating on her part, and all the divorce drama and separation of funds, and shuffle of kids in the middle will be difficult on me.

Thank you anne059 for the kind words. AAAAA's post was spot-on.

Jannaku, I agree 100% that the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime and that this falls under "through sickness and health". I actually thought that was how we got past this 5 years ago. I do believe she will find out the grass isn't greener - however, she even told me that she knows I will provide a great life for someone else and that she will always be a little bit jealous that it could have been hers. I told her, "then make it yours." If it's worth it to her, then do the counseling, talk to someone, make effort for another year. I can't convince her that her mindset is different now that she's a) not 8 months pregnant dealing with it, b) has had 5 years of trying to do deal with it alone, and c) has actually TOLD me now that there is still a problem. I really think someone can help her. At the present time she says she's not interested in finding someone else, that she could end up taking on men with more (and worst) baggage than this... but I know her, she won't stay single for long.

Lynn P. - you are absolutely right, she can't be this cold to me and expect the full comforts of marriage. I think that is where MY anger is starting to come into play right now. I'm the only one trying, though she is being civil for the most part. But she barely talks to me anymore. When I ask questions (even just normal daily answers), I get three word answers. She rarely initiates conversation unless she needs something. I do realize this is hard for her too, but I can't be the only one trying.

Lynn P., I did want to also address your question regarding the "gay" issue - we had that conversation numerous times after it happened. I educated her (as did her mom) that by far the majority were straight males and that it did not mean we were gay. I explained in my life that yes I had to do some self-analysis to determine if maybe I was, or if I had transgender feelings, but none of those ever turned out to be the case. I've never had gay experiences, never dressed in front of anyone else. My crime the day I had to tell her about it was that she caught me looking at pictures of crossdressed people on the internet. She didn't quite put 2 and 2 together right away and was basically accusing me of having a porn addiction (which I do not) and that I needed help. I didn't want her to have the wrong idea so I came clean, so she could understand WHAT I was looking at. It was not porn, it was YouTube videos of just people dressed, transforming, etc. I DO THINK that maybe what she saw in those pictures creeped her out enough that she pictures me in this way now - even though she's never seen it. She's always panicked that our sons would turn out this way too. We also discussed why I never told her about it before - because basically I thought she would leave me if she knew. And she pretty much confirmed that would have been the case - pre-marriage she wouldn't have stuck around, and 5 years ago when she found out she would have left if we had not already had 2 kids and one on the way.

At the time that I told her about it, I had never told anyone else. Since then, I did tell a few friends (one male and one female), and I've indirectly tried to feel out a few others. The 2 friends could not believe, as seems to be the common consensus here, that it was enough to be a dealbreaker. Even the priest that I talked to could not understand why she was so hung up on that. Especially since I wasn't pushing it on her or asking her to accept it, and voluntarily abstaining from it. I think in general people are more accepting of this now, but I guess I'll never break through her walls. Whatever happens, I made my peace with God, confessed my actions (and the thoughts and things that went along with it), did my penance. I just need her to forgive me now.

I now have to find the right time to make such a move. I'm not in a terrible hurry to get out of there, but that varies by the day. She has a surgery coming up that she will need me for during recovery. At the moment I can't afford to get my own place, and we will likely have to put our house up for sale when we decide to make things official, otherwise one of us (me) will be living on the streets. What I was planning to do, and I would like your opinions on this, is to propose a 6-week trial separation before we file any paperwork or do anything drastic. Basically, I'll move out for 6 weeks (and probably sleep in my office or crash from friend to friend during the week), continue to support her financially in the meantime, help with the kids when there are logistical issues, but not be around all morning and evening. For the kids, we can make/share visitation arrangements whether during the week or weekend, but it's done at our house, and she can go stay with her parents when it's my turn. Only rule is NO DATING during this timeframe and that we be open and honest during this time about where we are and what we are feeling. If after 6 weeks she thinks the separation is best - then we file and move on.. if not, then we will have to make sure that she has this dealt with and that it never comes up again.

Open to other suggestions as well...

Thanks to all of you.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by haunted_by_my_past

Jannaku, I agree 100% that the punishment doesn't seem to fit the crime and that this falls under "through sickness and health".

It is more than that.

Your wife lacks a moral compass.

A moral compass guides us in telling right from wrong.

Cross-dressing is not a crime. And I am saying it without being comfortable about cross-dressing. I have a wonderful colleague, Jeff, who is a cross-dresser who is out. He has:

- a childish face
- a thick black beard with a thick black mustache
- and, always, every day, a pair of colorful women's pumps that matches the color of his T-shirt. He wears bland looking nondescript men's pants, a colorful uni-sex T-shirt, and women's pumps that match the color of the T-shirt.

When I first saw him, I laughed inside myself - he seemed like a total and preposterous aberration. Over many months, I have talked to him a lot and slowly have progressed towards just viewing him a wonderful person with some quirks. And while in the beginning, I experienced cognitive dissonance between his virile facial hair and his wearing women's high heel shoes, NOW I experience more cognitive dissonance between his virile facial hair and his childish facial expression. But at any rate, I have been slowly getting more and more accustomed to seeing a variety of human tastes without thinking that people who have those tastes (openly) are preposterous aberrations.

BUT... even in the beginning, when I thought that Jeff was a preposterous aberration... I still realized that he was not a criminal! Cross-dressing, even in Jeff's case when he is completely out, does not render anybody a powerless victim.

To the extent that your wife was not able to see that, she lacks a moral compass, and this has already been established. Living with such a person is dangerous. Your trial separation might be a good idea if you want to dot the i's and cross the t's, but otherwise is not necessary.

[Jannaku]

I can feel your anger and frustration about your situation. I find it terribly, terribly sad that you are being punished for cross dressing. Cross dressing is not a crime and it hurts no one except those that are too narrow minded to except behavior that does not fall into society's mainstream ideals. I'm glad that you crossed that bridge and told your wife about it because now you can see her for what she really is even though it is a bitter pill to swallow. I personally think that there is more behind it though and that this is almost like a red herring. I suspect that she had not been happy with the relationship in the deepest crevices of her mind for whatever reason for a while and seized this opportunity regarding your cross dressing to dissolve your relationship because of what YOU have done, making her the innocent victim. Get it?- this way it absolves her of any responsibilities or guilt and the rest. She can walk out of this believing that it was all your fault, not hers. I fail to understand why she can not see you for who you are (a dependable, caring, hardworking husband) but chooses to focus on one small aspect of what you are (a cross dresser). What would she do in the future if your son was gay? Discard him and turn her back on him? You should not be begging for forgiveness for what you have done, nor should you be forced to live in a house abiding by the rules of no cross dressing and being questioned about it (what you do in private is your prerogative as long as it does not hurt anyone). I feel that you've beat yourself up enough about this in any case as you have said you have made peace with God and confessed. Personally I don't believe there was anything to confess, nothing to be forgiven about, and no peace to be made. Cross dressing is not a sin and you shouldn't be made to feel like you have committed one. It is sad that she has effectively made you feel like you have been so bad that you have ruined your marriage. You haven't at all, she has by choosing the path that she is on. We all have choices in life, she has a choice - either accept you warts and all and stay committed to your marriage or not accept you and destroy the marriage.

With regard to your plan for a 6 week trial separation - I think this is a good first step since it is not too drastic and sounds exceptionally reasonable in all respects. I am impressed that you appear to be thinking carefully and logically about things without getting caught up in the emotions and acting irrationally. Well done! There is nothing further you can do at this point. Put forth this trial separation proposal and see how you go. Keep posting with updates. I think it's great that you've found this community so that you can offload and get outside opinions. Hope it helps you on your journey.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by haunted_by_my_past

I think in general people are more accepting of this now, but I guess I'll never break through her walls. Whatever happens, I made my peace with God, confessed my actions (and the thoughts and things that went along with it), did my penance. I just need her to forgive me now.

Oh, you really really should stop doing all of that... The trial separation and even divorcing your wife will not help you in the least bit until you stop doing that...

To the extent that you "confessed", you yourself believe that cross-dressing is a crime and that you need to do penance or whatever.

If you yourself consider cross-dressing a crime, then she is not doing anything wrong. She is just repeating you. It would be nice if she rose to the occasion and convinced you that no, cross-dressing is not a crime, but... she is the way she is. Given that you yourself think that cross-dressing is a crime, the problem is in your mind.

I am appalled that the priest who had enough judgment to see that your wife lacked the ability to see shades of gray accepted your confessions without challenging your erroneous beliefs. I am not sure he did - maybe your conversations with God were not mediated by the priest. Still, the priest should have been much more proactive in showing to you that you have not committed any crimes.

[haunted_by_my_past]

I thank you all again for the heartwarming responses. I would be lying if I said I would have thought so many people would see my side of this and agree (and show tolerance). Definitely wasn't expecting a response like Hamster's... while I think your view of her may be a little harsh (and maybe that has to do with the way I tell the story and present the details), there are times that I do think exactly what you said. She really is a good person, but whatever she's going through right now has turned her into someone I don't particularly care for.

And Jannaku... over the past few days I have been coming to the conclusion that you did (see my mid-life crisis comments earlier) that this may not really be about the crossdressing completely. I think it's a combination of OCD, disappointment, grass-is-greener, etc. and using this is a way of putting it all on me. She does frequently remind me during heated discussions that we are "here because of you". The next time that is said, I will be prepared to turn that around on her and remind her that "NO... we are here because you want to give up on me, because everything I've ever done for you and provided for you is no longer good enough for you, and because you don't appreciate or respect me... you're also about to make a decision that will cost you the love of someone that cares deeply about you and has and will continue to do everything in the world he can to make you happy... you're about to make a decision that will affect your children for the rest of their lives ... all because of something that most people would say is not that big of a deal, something that I promised you I would not do anymore, and something that I have apologized for, attended counseling for, and spent 5 years doing everything I can to make it up to you. " (cue up Aretha Franklin's "You better THINK ... THINK... think about what you trying to do to me!! " )

As I said before, the timing is not perfect right now, I need to see how some things are going to play out, plus she has a surgery coming up and a grandmother living out her final days right now. But you guys have definitely empowered me and giving me good ammunition.

I'm done begging for my life right now and my patience for pulling the trigger is very thin. I am not one that takes a hard stance often, I am very low maintenance, all I ask for is respect, affection, and a Thank You now and then. But this is one scenario that I am ready to fight... I will not live under those circumstances, and I will put the best interests of my children first. I am trying to schedule a consultation with an attorney for next week just to get my ducks in a row and be prepared.

Jannaku, thanks for the comments on the 6 week thing. I don't know if she'll go for it or not... if she says no, make it official, then I guess I get my answer. If she says yes (or better yet, NO, let's try to work this out) then I know I still have something to fight for.

Again... shocked by the tolerance toward the crossdressing though. Having spent most of my life hiding it and feeling ashamed and feeling like a freak, I have to say this is pretty liberating. Just wonder how many of you might have reacted the same way as her though if you were in her shoes... Outside looking in is always a different view. I have lots of questions about how this might play out in future relationships if we get to that point... but I'll save those for another discussion.

[hamster-bamster]

Your wife is not a good person. She also does not have her priorities right.

You say that you are low maintenance.

Being low maintenance is a rare and precious quality.

If she does not appreciate your having this unusual, rare, and highly valuable quality of being low maintenance, and, instead, gets her hangups about something as minor as cross-dressing, then she does not have her priorities straight. Sour grapes and no regrets.

[Jannaku]

Hi and I am glad that our replies have empowered you and made you feel more accepting of cross dressing. To be completely honest, if the only fault (for want of a better word) my husband had was to cross dress then I would be happy and have nothing to complain about. I would swap that for the years of narcissistic abuse I've copped in a flash. Cross dressing doesn't phase me at all and in reading your post I never once thought anything more of it that what it is - cross dressing - big deal. Reiterating what Hamster Bamster said, you need to stop viewing it as a crime because in my books it isn't at all and comes nowhere near a crime. As was pointed out there was never a need to confess - confess for what - wearing women's clothing from time to time!!! If you follow that logic then every tattoo wearing, body pierced, colored hair person, homosexual, transvestite, gender bending individual out there needs to be forgiven as well. The problem is that you, in your mind, felt that it was (is) wrong and withheld this from your wife until the situation that occurred which "forced" you to tell her. If this "confession" would have been met with a non-judgmental understanding from your wife it would have been case closed, end of story, live happily ever after. The problem is that her refusal to accept it as a variation of normal has verified what you long felt inside - that it is unacceptable and abnormal and deviant and perverted and whatever. From the way you write you sound like such a lovely guy, with a clear logical mind and caring attitude and this is what your wife needs to see - she needs to look beyond into the heart of a man that obviously loves her. As far as timing is concerned - you'll know when the timing is right. Keep posting as to how things are going.

[anneo59]

Originally Posted by Jannaku

I can feel your anger and frustration about your situation. I find it terribly, terribly sad that you are being punished for cross dressing. Cross dressing is not a crime and it hurts no one except those that are too narrow minded to except behavior that does not fall into society's mainstream ideals. I'm glad that you crossed that bridge and told your wife about it because now you can see her for what she really is even though it is a bitter pill to swallow. I personally think that there is more behind it though and that this is almost like a red herring. I suspect that she had not been happy with the relationship in the deepest crevices of her mind for whatever reason for a while and seized this opportunity regarding your cross dressing to dissolve your relationship because of what YOU have done, making her the innocent victim. Get it?- this way it absolves her of any responsibilities or guilt and the rest. She can walk out of this believing that it was all your fault, not hers. I fail to understand why she can not see you for who you are (a dependable, caring, hardworking husband) but chooses to focus on one small aspect of what you are (a cross dresser). What would she do in the future if your son was gay? Discard him and turn her back on him? You should not be begging for forgiveness for what you have done, nor should you be forced to live in a house abiding by the rules of no cross dressing and being questioned about it (what you do in private is your prerogative as long as it does not hurt anyone). I feel that you've beat yourself up enough about this in any case as you have said you have made peace with God and confessed. Personally I don't believe there was anything to confess, nothing to be forgiven about, and no peace to be made. Cross dressing is not a sin and you shouldn't be made to feel like you have committed one. It is sad that she has effectively made you feel like you have been so bad that you have ruined your marriage. You haven't at all, she has by choosing the path that she is on. We all have choices in life, she has a choice - either accept you warts and all and stay committed to your marriage or not accept you and destroy the marriage.

With regard to your plan for a 6 week trial separation - I think this is a good first step since it is not too drastic and sounds exceptionally reasonable in all respects. I am impressed that you appear to be thinking carefully and logically about things without getting caught up in the emotions and acting irrationally. Well done! There is nothing further you can do at this point. Put forth this trial separation proposal and see how you go. Keep posting with updates. I think it's great that you've found this community so that you can offload and get outside opinions. Hope it helps you on your journey.

I wish you peace and strength with all my heart. I know that many people experience a trial separation and then feel they have come to the appropriate solution, though it doesn't work out for everyone. Take care!

[hamster-bamster]

"Therefore, a hearth keeper is the person who keeps this vital fire burning in the home. The hearth (kitchen) will always be a place where people gather for comfort and fellowship for a party or a simple meal."

You cook - you are the hearth keeper. You have played a vital role in your family. She does not give you credit - let her cook for herself.

[haunted_by_my_past]

My intent on the topic was more about whether I stood a chance of winning someone back once they reach this frame of mind... and because of the controversy of her reason was looking for female opinions on whether this could be overcome or not.

So while I certainly appreciate all the kind words and support regarding my crossdressing, I do want to try to bring this back on topic. However, before I do, because some points were brought up by a few posters - I do want to clarify a few details:

The confession that I made was not for the act of dressing itself. The Priest confirmed himself that was not considered a sin. My confession was centered more on the things that went along with it over the years ... varying stages of it involved masturbation, fantasies (of all types), some porn along the way, etc. that would fall under confessable sins. Personally, I'm not a hard-core Catholic and I go through many phases on what my true beliefs are, and my views on some of those things are not nearly as severe as what the church itself might say. But my goal was to get my heart right, fix things up with God Himself, and know that I had things squared away where it mattered most ... if HE can forgive me, then it really doesn't matter in the end if she does - I suppose.

So overall, no I don't think the act is wrong. Quite honestly, I like the clothes, I found it to be a way to take off my edge. Not interested in men in any way, shape, or form. Would have been nice to have a friend or someone that I could share it with... and yes, I do question where I would go with this if we do in fact split up permanently. I personally think that many of the things that I did as a husband - my ability to cook, clean, do laundry and perform many things that many "alpha male" husbands won't do or can't do ... may be driven by some of the same things neurologically that make the dressing appealing to me. I've never defined anything to be "gender" specific when it came to tasks around the house - at least from my side. I never expected her to go out and cut grass or build a fence, but I was never "above" doing anything as a parent or husband.

On the same front though... this is something I hope that my sons never have to endure at any level. The shame (whether warranted or not), the secrets, and the difficulty in finding those who will accept it.

Back to the topic ... I think most of you who have responded already do not think that she will get over this. I'm still not ready to give up yet ... and I'm looking for the best way to handle the situation to hopefully right the ship.

I've had millions of thoughts running through my head on how to handle - looking for opinions:

1. Stay put, try not to push the issue too much, and just try to make myself happy, spend as much time with the kids as possible, and somewhat avoid/ignore her in the meantime (maybe prompt a little jealousy or loneliness?). I can already see signs of paranoia if she sees me texting someone or walking outside to take a phone call.

2. Separate (the 6-week trial that I suggested in earlier post). Hope she misses me, realizes and appreciates my contributions, etc. And hope it doesn't backfire.

3. Push the issue ... keep dredging it up until we get to the bottom of what her problem is with what happened when she found out. The more I think about what happened that night, the more I think she has confusion about what the pictures/videos I was looking at meant to me. I think she thinks I was looking at these as people I was attracted to, and she probably can't understand how I can be a heterosexual man and get turned on by pictures and videos of crossdressers (which in reality was not the case, I liken it to more along the lines of - if you are into baseball, you read baseball articles and watch baseball videos - I was into crossdressing at times in my life, I was intrigued by pictures of people crossdressing). I don't know that she would buy it or if it would make a difference - in her mind, just the interest in it makes me "less of a man" in her eyes which seems to be the part she's stuck on. Just may not be something I can defeat.

I don't know... just still not ready to quit. Still think my good traits have got to win out somewhere down the line.

[hamster-bamster]

I vote for (1). Capitalize on the paranoia and prompt jealousy and loneliness.

This is because you have already tried talking with her, and that did not work. So that justifies inserting a little dynamic into the relationship to see what happens. Stay put, text people from time to time, walk outside to take calls, etc. A good idea. A very good idea. Also, much less logistical hassle than the trial separation option. So that would be the first choice, before you go down the list. And yes, ignore her - in your mind, make peace with the idea that you would not win her... and then you just might win her.

[AAAAA]

haunted I can only speak from my own experience. But in my opinion you need to focus on what you want from life. Until you know for sure how can you make these desires known to anyone else.

A trial separation can be a good idea. But what do you hope that will accomplish? In my own experience I was so wrapped up in blaming my husband for all of the conflict in our life (and truth be told, he was responsible for a good portion of it) that when he did "extra" things for me I looked at them not as gifts of love (which is what they were) but as an attempt to make up for the things that he'd done wrong (which they did not). At that time everything was weighed on a scale, but not fairly. The root problems were still there, he violated my trust, he insulted my intelligence, he did not give me credit for the strength I was capable of. This was not his intention. His problem was that he was insecure. He was so sure that I'd settled for him when I'd "given up so much" to be with him that his fear made him make bad decisions. Cleaning the house and making my favorite meal for me was not going to make up for a lie of omission.

It took a long time for me to see him as a whole being again. The good and the bad. Are we speculating that it was the cross dressing that changed her feelings or do you know that for a fact? Until you know really and truly what is making her unhappy in the relationship you do not know if these issues can be solved. They very well may be something that doesn't even show up on your radar. Keep in mind it is not up to you to solve her issues. You can support her, but she has to tackle those on her own.

It also took us a long time to learn how to communicate effectively. I would not state clearly and concisely what I was unhappy about, then I'd get even more miserable and irritated because he didn't know. We really did have to do the exercises "you've said XXX, what I hear is YYY, is this what you meant?" You'll be surprised at how far off each of you is with a single statement. That unspoken communication was the main factor in our struggles. To be effective in this, you need to establish your own self worth. My husband made the mistake of thinking I was more valuable than he. Sometimes you have to remove the scab to clean the wound.

[Perna]

I have the most trouble with your wife, that she not only does not accept you for who you are but does not want to do the work to get to a place where she would accept you for who you are. I do not think I could live with a person who blatantly did not love me in that fashion, did not want to partner with me whole-heartedly (to have and to hold from this day forward, for better or for worse, for richer, for poorer, in sickness and in health, to love and to cherish; from this day forward until death do us part). I would not be feeling very cherished? There's no way you can know what else you might want to talk about that would be "unsafe"; she is in effect holding you hostage.

[haunted_by_my_past]

AAAAA - you have the hard questions today!! As for the crossdressing being the problem - that is a direct quote, so unless she's hiding something else, she has told me on multiple occasions that all of our problems go back to that night she found out 5 years ago. In her mind, nothing has ever been the same since. What would I hope to gain by a trial separation - 1. I guess I would be hoping for her to wake up and realize that she's not going to be able to get away with treating me this way, that she would quickly recognize the full value of my contributions once I'm gone, actually MISS me, ... all before bringing attorneys into the picture and having to sell our home, minimizing the impact on the children, etc. 2. Finding out if maybe I'M actually happier without her and can empower myself in the meantime for the fight. Perhaps a longshot... my feelings vary by the day on whether there is anything left to fight for.

Perna - you may have just written my good-bye speech. You have definitely captured my darker feelings about all this.

[AAAAA]

The problem with a trial separation, especially one for only 6 weeks is that you're both still in limbo. As my father used to say you can do anything standing on your head for a short period of time. That is to say you can endure anything especially if you know that there is an end to it.

Today's society has a view that marriage is disposable. That is sad. However, a fulfilling marriage will not work if both parties are not willing to work on the issues. Realistically it's never 50/50 but both parties have to put in some effort. It does not sound like your wife is willing to put in any effort.

Stop apologizing. This is who you are, warts and all. You deserve happiness. If your wife is unwilling to embrace who you are as a person then the relationship will not work. You're very worried about your children, which is wonderful. But children are clever creatures and you are teaching them what a relationship should be. If you cannot stand up for yourself for yourself, do it for them. I wish you happiness and peace.

[hamster-bamster]

Originally Posted by AAAAA

You're very worried about your children, which is wonderful. But children are clever creatures and you are teaching them what a relationship should be. If you cannot stand up for yourself for yourself, do it for them. I wish you happiness and peace.

very true. Look, your children are growing up seeing a man who tends to and keeps the hearth and yet gets no warmth or respect from his wife.

is that the lesson you want to teach your children about men who tend to and keep the hearth??..

[Nicks_Nose]

Children can often detect unhappiness among parents and when asked their thoughts on their parents marriage, they often say they wished their parents had parted sooner if they were not happy together. A father can teach as much to their children about love and remaining devoted to their children after, or regardless of, separation as they can about remaining together for the children. To separate and still show the children that you are still there for them in any way or time tells them that the separation had nothing to do with them and can quickly secure their esteem and trust in both parents. The only time a separation or divorce hurts the children is if either parent then uses the marital split as an excuse to not see the children.

[haunted_by_my_past]

Nicks_Nose, your words are definitely a consistently recurring theme that I am picking up from these forums. I appreciate your input!