PTSD / Dad

It sounds more like your dad is suffering with dementia...and may need more attention. Obviously he isn't receiving good nutrition, and that may be adding to its severity.

Yes, from time to time--very rarely--I was thanked etc. But I wasn't the favorite, and the one who was could do anything right or wrong and always benefitted...took advantage of them, and benefitted, often to my own detriment. Family.

There was a game that came out in the early 80s... can't recall the name of it, but it was similar to some of those that make the players decide if you are telling the truth or not, when answering a game question. My question was about if my dad (who was very much alive then) were in a nursing home and no longer knew who I was, would I visit? I was called a liar by all but one when I said for a while I would, but then no, not if he didn't know who I was. I would go until I was able to say goodbye. I told the truth.

You do have to let go, write them off, end the abuse, give up hope for change...whatever you gotta call it, at some point. Parents get old and die. For most, the most difficult part of that is realizing "you" are next.

Anyway, try and keep in mind that you and my parents were of a different generation, saw unbelievable events, endured fears and hardships and learned some hard knocks of life...and they became very strong and most often stubborn about self care and individuality, and add to that that the men of that age abhorred going to medical doctors etc! My own dad could have lived had he shared his pains, but alas he didn't know what he didn't know...he didn't know about milestones in medical science (though he was up to date on everything else!) and maybe he could have lived longer. But he was 84 when he passed. We just expected him to last to 100 easy. Talking about it...well yeah... soft touch my heart.

Gone are the chances for a loving childhood... all the anger and frustration and sadness that goes with that lost opportunity rises to the surface when a parent becomes so infirmed or passes. One of the things my dad said to me, in the last week or so of his life was, quite going to doctors and get on with my life. He never understood my pain, my ptsd from the accident... it hurts to think even my dad may have felt I was faking (enter the otehr sibling who could do no wrong and worked against me?) the whole thing?

It's hard to let you. But you work on it...think about it...decide what is and isn't good for you now...and draw that line. Make the decision now before things become totally emotional and you're in the throes of fast, desperate decisions influenced by other's expectations...so that you will have it to stand upon.

Big hugs.

I am so sorry for both of you Lava and JD. Both of you are such nice people and really never deserved to go through what you both did or are now.

When you really think of it not only did your youth suffer. But you finally get some life together and it comes back and takes more. To the depths of me I feel despair for you and others like you. And sometimes I see that it is one child that suffers thu it while sometimes the others give up and then step in to critisize. Another reminder of the whole disfunction of whatever was there.

I made another post in Other Mental Health discussions and it showed how I feel in bold print. To be honest I just can't believe that society allows people to have children with no education or understanding of what they are taking on. How can it be that we are so advanced in technology and we are constantly addressing all the fallout of how children are raised so poorly? I really have such a hard time when the only things that are mentioned is how children are in need of more education or better education. I never hear how there is a real need to educate people on how the raise a normal healthy child.

Oh yes we have laws not that prohibit child abuse, well, if a child shows bruises on the outside, what about about the damage on the inside?

If we have to take drivers ed, why don't we have to take parents ed?
I am not sure there is any real kind of program for that at all. It just amazes me that we have a president that had a father that abandoned him and we can even see that it did effect him, but that is never discussed either. NO, we just accept it. And it seems normal to just let it happen somehow.

And how about all the studies and ways we try to prolong life? And there are so many medications to enhance the quality of life. UM, maybe a lot of medications wouldn't be neccessary if we just improved the growth, and care of life from the start. How come no one takes the time to look at the child, the family unit etc? You know its like every child born is given a lotto ticket and maybe they will be the one in how many billion to get the real loving parent and good family enviornment.

And all I see is constant deterioration of the family unit everywhere, in every country in the world. How people are stuggling, losing homes and jobs and means of getting from one day to the next and how it is destroying whatever possible family unit that is there. How big banks can get a bailout, what about the bailout of families? It is just so inconceivable to me.

I have been told that I am very intelligent. Well, that doesn't help me feel better. I would rather others that are intelligent made sure that I was brought up better and was given a chance to develope my intelligence in learning rather than self protecting and survival IN MY OWN FAMILY ENVIORNMENT.

And if you think it is any better now than when you grew up, take another look. I think it is even worse.

Even an animal can raise offspring better than humans can.

I am very sorry for anyone that comes here and has to feel all this pain.

I wish it could have been different for you, me and others.

Open Eyes

After much thought and talking about it with my T & wife I've decided to severe all communication with my Father. At least for the foreseeable future. I just won't let him do to me what he's done to me all my life. Belittle me - discount me - ridicule me - control me - blame me for his miserable existance - abuse me. I can cut myself off from him knowing that I've done everything a son could do to try to help his unappreciative father age with some degree of comfort and dignity. And I'm satisfied I did that. To the best of my ability. In spite of his protests - resistance - ridicule for my "worrying too much." Etc.

So he's 85 & on his own. Luckily, my brother - who is just like him - will keep Dad company until he dies. This decision will also separate me from my brother but I have no choice. Being with dad - even talking to him on the phone - triggers too much. As my T said, "I'm not sure it's good for you to be with your main abuser." She's right. It's NOT good for me. Sets me back for weeks after even the briefest of exposure.

It was a hard decision for me Lava, but severing ties with my family of origin, was very healthy. It helped me come to terms with the fact that they would never change. And it kept me out of the current issues that plague their lives. I still miss having a family, but I know it's what I needed to do. It hurts at first, but with time, I believe it helps old wounds heal.

Yeah, it's hard CSC, but the right thing to do. Maybe with time and distance some of my wounds can heal too. Thanks.

That's a really hard decision, I just want to give you a thumbs up for doing such a hard thing but one very good for yourself. I'm sorry it also means cutting off your brother too, but maybe time will help. I found for me distance helped. Living several states away and having an aunt(married into the family) close to my mom who kind of guided her to meeting for family members helped. I hope you and your brother may one day may be able to have that too. I have one sister I can talk to, and one who still thinks its some kind of attention seeking game. (yup- I loved moving away from averything I knew, having flashbacks and nightmares, and all the rest of it) You did what you needed to and I believe there can be hope for the future too.

Stepper : Ya think? (not sarcastic) I hope so! I need for these wounds to begin to heal!! And I need to stop chasing after something that's never gonna be there - the love (healthy love!) of a Father incapable of loving. It was easier with Mom after she died. She was gone so there was no more possibility of some day receiving love from her anymore. With dad being alive the little boy keeps looking for it. But all he gets in return is further damage. Enough.

How could they........?

Don't know if you noticed but I kinda left my father out of the whole thing. It was really hard. We never made up. He was upset with me for ruining his good name! Yup, going into the hospital and getting help(a diganoses, put our whole family into shame and disgrace! Not the creep next droor who did this to me? guess not. Nor my ex who beat me right into the ER, nope me. Never, never be weak, never be les than perfect, TBI, so what.

Any way on my way out of the state(my lovery ex kept showing up and I couldn't handle him on top of all else, so I ran, left the state for the unknown. I stopped at my house to say good bye( I was really hoping that they would say I could stay with them or help me, maybe go to a relatives so I wouldn't be compleatly on my own.... He slaped me and told me I was his greatest shame because I had the greatest potential, and I ruined our good name. I didn't see him again till I went back for his funeral.

That was hard. But my brother-in-law was so nice, he had gotten my sister to relize I had not wanted PTSD(as if). I know your relationship with your dad was different, allways pretty bad. But when I was young I was a big time tom-boy, the son my father never had, and we had lots of good times, I learned to read his mood and disaper when he was close to blowing up. I once watched him tear a snow blower apart with his bare hands because it defied him.(!) Those things are made of metal, his hands were a bloody mess but he couldn't feel it, he was in a red rage--mom had silent rage-she wouldn't talk to you for days or weeks. He was raised on a farm too. Kinda gives a new meaning to farm raised american. Anyway, I just chose to remember the good times, for us there were some, I have a feeling though, if he had any sons, his sons would never have been good enough, thats how he and his brothers were raised. His middle brother is the scariest of all of them. The youngist married well and she wouldn't put up with any __________ He ended up becoming a millionaire a few times over. He talks just as racist as his brothers but only when he's around them. Amazes me that my fathers famly calls themselfs christians, putting everyone down and being racists, and compleatly oblivious how it looks waveing the bible one minute then hateing humans the next. Boggles the mind.

So YEP, I think, (nope, not sarcastic either, just been there-but lucky to be a girl and not a son!) I do have hope for you and your brother, not sure about your father. All the same I'l hope anyway that you can have what I didn't get.

Oh P.S. Trees were my refuge too, I didn't have a woods, but I had the whole contry side, I leave on my horse w/ my dog a book or two, and a can of organges.

Thanks Stepper! Didn't know all that about you. I'm SO sorry you were slapped.

I don't think parents then - or now for that matter - understand the damage that is done when a parent puts their hand on their child. People in my office know that I will leave the room if there's any talk of them disciplining their kids that way. Been on the receiving end of too much of that crap. Lots of slaps - becoming airborn from time to time. My mother had a black belt in fly swatter!! She would come at us like a Ninja Warrior with those damn things!! Dad just had his fists and the kicks. But enough of that...

I keep waiting to feel sad that I've made this decision. But you know I DON'T. More of a relief actually. Now I don't have to think of "should I or shouldn't I," and if I do, "how?" It's done. Just like I didn't feel sad when Mom died. Kept waiting to - never did. To this day. Maybe I would have if I had just ONE "Motherly" memory of her. But there are none.

Anyway, thanks for sharing that with me. And your kind words. We'll get there... Keep pluggin'.

Terry

Yep, you said it all. My mom was so fustrated not being able to work, not having anyone to talk to.

After I left my ex I knew I was at risk to do the same, I have a temper and no fuse, so I went to a parenting class. Surprisingly most parents were there voluntarily, very few ordered by a judge. We all wanted NOT to raise are kids the way we were. My mom said she wished such things were around for her.

My daughter was about 4 maybe 5 when she asked me why I didn't spank her! When I asked her why? She said her friends got a spanking and then it was over, they didn't have to sit there, and then talk about it! I asked her if her friends ever learned anything from their spanking, she said (with a pout) it doesn't matter, just get it over with! But man it was hard some days, I had to lock myself in my bedroom until I cooled off, the best thing I learned from the group was never discipline when your angry.

Yeah. We've never laid a hand on our youngest. Eventhough I had to walk away on several occasions!! He really put us through it for a while!! Wish I could say the same thing about my oldest, but I can't. During that time, I didn't know any better and was doing what I was TAUGHT to do. "Continuing the Cycle." Luckily, he & I have had numerous conversations about those days and he seems to have accepted my apologies. I think he understands how much I regret how I treated him back then. And the GOOD NEWS is he wouldn't lay a hand on his kids! He disciplines but with love and sensitivety. He's really quite good with them. I'm so proud of the man & Father he's turned out to be! And have told him so.

So maybe the cycle has FINALLY been broken. Took a couple generations, but.... At least we got there!!

Have a great day!! Thanks for stopping by and commenting. Helps to not feel so alone "out here."

Glad to hear that you took time out to talk to your older son.

And I hope you now realize how we can be taught how to address our children. And it is good that you have recoginized this and have worked to change the parenting methods.

Many parents do not realize how they sometimes repeat a parenting style, something that may have an effect that they are unaware of. I tried very hard to conteract anything I learned growing up. But, it was difficult for me when I was raising my daughter because I was dealing with things in my own life. Luckily I stopped and thought and made sure that I did everything possible to make sure my own issues were not effecting my daughter.

Well, I tried, wasn't perfect. And today she often does not understand me on some levels because she didn't grow up like me. No, shes stronger than me. But she is with a person that has a tendency or can be a binge alcoholic or even a dry drunk. Oh, it is hard because she saw me do it, and work with it and so she does it too. Ahh, it is so hard, your dammed if you do and damed if you don't. All we can do is our best. My husband tries to talk to her about it so she can realize what is going on and what choices she is making.

Its hard for me because I do want her to understand and yet I don't want her to own my issues. Oh, its just not easy.

Open Eyes

I think we should all give ourselves some credit for trying and awareness. We were not perfect, but we did try and it sounds like all of us have talked to our kids. My mother often is amazed about the things my daughter and I talk about, she's 83 and can't imagine such talks with her own German born Mother. I'd like to think its getting better, but the news tells me otherwise. So we learned and we changed for our kids!

So. I think I had stated earlier that I had made the decision to "cut my father loose." Not allow him in my life anymore because he was too triggering for me. It's been about a month, I think. At least it seems that long - maybe longer - I don't know.

And I've stuck to that. On the one hand it's been somewhat freeing to not have to be bombarded by his abuse and emotional neglect whenever I'm with him. But on the other hand -- well I just miss my Daddy...

Sorry guys. My T says my continuing to go after his approval and love - even now at my age - is my "little boy ego state" trying to get what he never had. Yeah. Probably. Sounds about right. I guess today I'm that little boy in some ways. And I want my Daddy....

Looks and feels silly to write that. But it's probably the most genuine thing I'm gonna write today. And I push paper for a living...

((((((((Lava))))))))

Letting it out is not such a bad thing. It is part of greiving and it takes time. You have been through a lot and had to face some tuff realities.

But you are a good person in spite of it all. And, well, that sometimes makes it harder as you feel deeply.

Feel free to say it as you need to, it is a part of accepting, a very slow process for everyone. It takes time Lava, much time. But the truth is we cannot change others, we just cant, we have to accept that, and it is not easy.

Open Eyes

Open Eyes : True.

Maybe the holiday weekend brought up family? I know it does for me. That first weekend singleing the end of school, and the begining of summer, trips, sometimes even summer like weather=nostalgia. That can always be a hard thing.

Maybe Sidestepper. I'm just missing him today. Missing having a father. Wish I had one. Wish I had a father growing up. To hang with - do father & son things. You know? And I wish I had one now. To help him in his declining years. My T said to me last week. "I see you as someone who wants to be loved and to love." About sums it up I guess. That's how I feel about Dad. And how I feel in general. Been a difficult day...

I think that when we finally recognize the things that lay behind a person, ignorance, and their own abuse, lack of true knowledge about child raising etc. Sometimes because we might see the history there, maybe even a man who did not know how to deal with the stress from having to be responsible for so much. Well, we begin to recognize things and reach out in a different way.

The truth is, that there are points where, it is just too late. I have seen that too in my parents. I have a sympathy for them as they really didn't know what to do, or how to understand, it just wasn't there for them. So if a parent says " I did good, I did my best, you werent hungry or there was a roof over your head etc." Well, they are talking about the fact that in spite of how difficult it was to provide that, they did do it. And when they look back at the fact that they did do it, well, the last thing they want to hear is that they didn't do it right. Or even that they could have done it better. No, people who are old don't want to hear that and when they are old, they just cant change anymore, and they don't want to see what mistakes they made. Sometimes they do know it and they don't like it and so they harbor anger and many times they don't want to do anything more, they have done enough and they don't anything left to give.
They don't want to take on guilt, they are way too tired for that. It is like taking a very old computer and asking it to do all the stuff a new computer is designed to do more efficiently.

So, I think many times when we look beyond the actual abuse and the whys and even to ignorance, well, it can be hard. Especailly as we may see our own mistakes and our ignorance and we realize that we made mistakes too.

I have often said, know thy enemy. There is alot to that. Alot depends on who the enemy is and why. Some people are just not really capable of feeling remorse of guilt. While others act out due to ignorance and really think that it is the way to react and do things. Or even a person can be agressive due to their own life experiences and they don't even realize it.

We have to accept that we may grieve for what could have been, only if. But we also have to understand that we truely cannot go back and change it. The only thing we can do is see the whys behind it all and learn to not blame ourselves, and sometimes realize that we couldn't control the other person, then and even now.

Now when people say they cannot forgive themselves. Well, what that means is they are more aware of their own reactions, responses and perhaps even allowing in some way for it to happen.
But, it is important to recognize that the situation was out of some kind of ignorance to begin with. So when we look back at picture, outside looking in, well, we see if from a different perspective. A perspective that we did not have while we were in that picture. And the truth is, that no matter how well we see it now, we just didn't then. That too is part of the enemy.
Hind sight is almost always 20/20 and there is no way we can go back. The only way to proceed is by learning and accepting that the situation involved ignorance and we were victims.
So when you look back, it is not just the abuse you have to look at over and over. It is learning all the things behind it, seeing it from the outside in and truely recognizing that we cannot change what happened.

And it takes time to heal from it and allow ourselves to learn from it and move forward.

Open Eyes

Open Eyes : I chuckled when I read the part about the computers. You're right about that! In the past when I've tried to talk to Dad about what I felt like growing up - the good AND the bad - he would look at me like I was speaking Japanese...! He couldn't understand a word! He would always go back to "I always did good by you kids." Yeah, he provided food - shelter - clothing. But fell "just a tad short" when it came to love - caring - companionship - safety - guidance.

It's sorta difficult to be grateful for the clothes on your back when you're getting the crap kicked out of you! And it's hard to think about "The Ole Homestead," when we were racked with fear every day as it grew nearer the time when we knew he'd be home.

The one thing that got me into therapy was the death of my mother. Afterwards, when people were offering their condolences and commenting on how difficult it is to lose a "Mother's Love" I realized I had no tender, "motherly memories" of her. I felt no saddness, or whatever at her death. Felt guilty about that! "How come I can't grieve for her?" Tried to "conjure" up some sadness so I wouldn't feel like such a lousy son for not grieving for his mom, but there was none to be had. Finally, through therapy, I realized why. There aren't any "motherly memories" to be conjured. They never existed. But now there is sadness. For me in that I didn't experience those things. And for a mother who missed out knowing a pretty neat kid!! I'm sad for her that she wasn't able to - for whatever reason.

Same goes for dad. I'm sad I don't have those "Father & Son" memories. And I'm sad for him because he's most likely gonna die never having met his oldest son. He might have enjoyed his company if he had been able to spend some time with him. Too bad...

Anyway, thanks for the comments, all. "It's a process." (You as sick of hearing that as I AM??)

No, I am not sick of hearing it. And the fact that you are sharing it may mean another person will feel that they are not alone. Not everyone is willing to talk or even see a problem.

Part of PTSD is repeating. Many people don't always understand that. I have often been acused of doing that, not knowing that it was a common symptom of PTSD.
It is a verbal validation, recognition and finally being able to accept it. It is a process and is also a wonder of the why. That repeating is as if you are saying, gee I cant believe it, why, was it me, what was it. Well you have a lot of answers now but accepting it is still hard. So, you may need to say it out loud until you can finally accept it. It can take a long time. And that is normal.

To be able to accept that you grew up in a disfunctional family is very hard. No one wants that, and will go to great lengths to deny it. But it can't be denied, facts are facts.

So every once in a while if you need to say it, just put it here. And we will acknowledge it with you.

Open Eyes

Easy OpenEyes. Kidding... Thanks for the kind words. OF COURSE they're true.

Oh, I just thought of something. I met a man while my husband and I were out to dinner one night. I happen to hear him talking about a day out fishing and that he donated his time as a big brother.

I called him over to the table and asked him about it. He told me it was very rewarding for him. He told me that many boys for some reason or another do not have a male figure to just do the things you wanted when you were young.

So he is a big brother. He doesn't get involved with the psychiatric stuff. He just takes who every it is out and does stuff with them. He takes them fishing and camping and all kinds of things. This gives a young boy an opportunity to have a mentor and a man to listen to them and show them kindness and teach them different things. I was deeply moved.

It may be something you might want to consider some day now that you are an empty nester and you do know what it is like to need that person.

Open Eyes

Not a bad idea! I'm gonna think about it... Thanks!

I don't have any words right now, just know that I'm listening and supporting and do understand some of it....