[Open Eyes]

I have had quite a time of it this past week alone. I have had a lot of things come at me the past few weeks, but this past week alone has worn me down.

Here is one day for example. I get up and come to PC and check on my posts and my friends that struggle. I have a cup of coffee and work on waking up to do my day which includes taking care of my horses/ponies.

If my husband is awake and home we seem to have to go to the bathroom at the same time. I often let him get up first and give him time to wake up himself in the morning. No matter when I get down stairs though I still have that we have to go at the same time challenge. And I always seem to face him interupting me when I am trying to wake up and am reading things in PC. Even if I wait for him to leave, nope, he calls me on the phone. sigh

My husband is a big time in your face person too. Everytime he wants to tell me something he steps into my space and pokes me. He often takes his finger and jabs it into my arm in short hard jabs as he begins to speak.
No matter how many times I tell him "not" to do that, he still does it.

He is also a "hurry up quick right now lets move" kind of person too. So he invades my sense of time and the way I move forward too. And I actually experience a "aggrivated auto response to that in my nervous system too".

When he gets home, no matter where I am he has to know what I am doing and he is not in the door but a few seconds and wants to know what I am watching and what dishes are in the sink and so, I jump inside with that too. And I could be watching something and involved and he always needs to interupt that and "can we put on the news"? Ugh.

Then we finally go to bed and I have learned over the years that I have to put a firm big pillow between our heads, otherwise I will get hit many times during the night. But that doesn't stop the night time invasions as then "in his sleep" he needs to grab the pillow and even beat on it which pushes away my head space. I have "learned" in my sleep that I have to protect my space pretty much all night. That pillow literally becomes my "shield". And most mornings I wake up in the bottom part of the bed in my own little corner with that pillow still placed as protection for my head.

Over the years I have had so many problems with my neighbors who have plenty of their own land somehow also feeling that they should be able to do as they please on my land as well. And if I put up no trespassing signs they like to tear them down, if I put up fences that I can manage to put up on my own, they try to dismantle them. I could go on and on with how many ways I have been challenged with that problem. And I ended up paying a big price because of disrespect in that area too. And no matter how "nice" I was about it, didn't matter.

One of the biggest human challenges is BOUNDARIES. Human beings are always trying to find ways to CROSS BOUNDARIES and many human beings are constantly struggling to PROTECT THEIR BOUNDARIES.

My biggest challenge my entire life has been trying to PROTECT MY BOUNDARIES. I have had so many things happen to me where others have invaded my boundaries and ABUSED ME as well, that I have become extremely "sensitive" about boundaries. My biggest challenge with my PTSD is due to EXTREME DISRESPECT FROM OTHERS CONCERNING MY BOUNDARIES. This goes all the way back to when I was a baby. As a matter of fact I have flashbacks, very disturbing flashbacks from this very delicate part of my life. The problem is that I do not have language with it because of how young I was so these are the worst flashbacks, most painful flashbacks for me to try to understand.

Unfortunately for me, it has gotten so bad that my body literally cringes to being touched as well. I struggle to have gynocologists examine me and even to go to the doctor. The last time I went to the doctors, I tried to have a different doctor as my other doctor was mean to me regarding my medical records and my psychiatrist. But when I had this new doctor come in to see me he brought in a trainee and asked if the trainee could also examine me. I quickly said no, not a good day, however he did not repect that and kept trying to get me to accept having this other man also examine me. I held my ground and they were not happy and left the room making me wait.

While alone in the examining room I went into flashbacks where my brother and another boy grabbed me off the swings and pulled me into a shed and took off all my clothes. I was only about three years old and terrified because my brother had already made several attempts to molest me. So I thought that now I would have two boy doing that. I do not remember how I escaped that shed. It took all I had to stay in that doctors office to be examined, I wanted with all my being to run.

Now that I have PTSD, and I struggle with boundaries I often have "surges" of anger and I react. The only way I can address these surges is after they happen.

I have spent many years working with abused horses and ponies. I spend a lot time helping them overcome abuse and learn how to trust again. But I never realized that this was actually part of me deeply identifying with them and helping them and perhaps knowing that I never got that myself.

I just thought I would share. I don't talk about this in depth like this. But I know that many people struggle with "BOUNDARIES' and I do feel that it is one big part of mental illnesses.

Just thought others might want to share their thoughts.

I am going to try to talk more about this problem. And thought it might be a thread where we could all share this challenge and ways we work on this challenge as well.

I picked my name thinking about myself and my life too. I didn't know about this song either never saw the movie, it is erie how well it fits me though. I wrote this post and happened to see the thread about looking up our names we pick here on google to make sure we are not somehow personally connected to that name identity wise. I never even thought of that and that is the first time I heard this song too. How bazaar.

Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

After I found that music video, I thought about so many things. I rarely listen to music since I developed PTSD. I never go to that forum and I don't talk all that much about why either. I haven't even talked about it in therapy either.

I was a lead singer in a band when I was younger. I always loved music, always. I always sang in the choir and at church and was in a special singing group in high school. Music, I really loved it so, I taught myself how to play the guitar as well and I always took it along when I babysat, kids always loved that. I was always making up songs too. I loved that rich sound of the guitar too.

I took voice lessons right after I graduated from High School and my teacher was really neat and her husband wrote songs for plays. They spent a lot of time in the City working around the muscials back then. I just remembered, she always made me tea to drink before we started the lesson. I can remember her teapot and she didn't use a bag, she used a strainer that she soaked the tea leaves in the hot water with.
I remember one day she was working on my voice and her husband called her away. They were arguing and I heard him instruct her not to change my voice and that it had a very interesting "haunting quality" to it that he wanted to cultivate. Hmmm, never heard someone describe a singing voice like that before. Oh, I have heard it since though.

Then my teacher asked me if I would like to sing professionally in a band. She had been approached by a band looking for a lead singer. I told her I had "no" experience with that and she said, that's ok you will figure it out, it will be fun. So that was the beginning of a new adventure for me. For a while it was a lot of practicing to build up a repertoire. Then they had their agent come and listen to us and his partner came too and that led to our first booking. And my teacher was right, it was fun the crowd loved us and it was very stimulating.

I lived by night though and slept in the day, that was hard to get used to. We performed almost every night except for Mondays. They don't do that anymore, but back then all the night clubs had live entertainment.

But there was dark side to that life too, and I was too young to have the life skills to handle that really. Stalkers, men chasing me in parking lots, harassing phone calls, and my agent mauling me, and it kept getting harder and harder. I had a man come right up on the stage and try to maul me, took all the band members to get him off of me. I still remember shaking and being so scared. I had a big producer offer to back me and send me to Berkly school of music. I listened to his offer and then went back to do another set. Funny how you can sing a song and yet the mind can be in very different place. Part of me loved the music so much, but I could not imagine being able to handle any more than I had already been exposed to. I had managed to get away from the manager who was like an animal on me. I might not be so lucky next time. So I never went back to the producer, didn't even want to go back and say no and have him try to convince me. Some of these men had amazing ways of trying to convince and I was tired of it. I finally just stopped singing on stage completely.

Boundaries, no, I didn't have enough life experience to handle that. It is strange how PTSD brings back all the scarey things from the past. My early childhood taught me how to "be a victim" and so when that challenge came again, I didn't really feel I could tell anyone somehow. So, I kept it all to myself.

I thought to myself, how would anyone understand why I don't listen to music, or that I havent since the PTSD took hold? I wasn't really aware of why, not really. I wanted to join the music club, I joined it but I just couldn't participate somehow. So long ago but just like yesterday too. I wish I had somebody like I am now for others, back then to sit and talk to. It just wasn't there for me back then.

The truth is, people often "don't understand us" unless they do know our challenges in our lives. We are all like that. The most important thing is that "you" understand it. Often we go through things take away some hurt and warning signs, but we don't truely realize how things change us, or even become part of who we are as well.

Open Eyes

[Little Me]

Thanks for sharing. i can't write anymore now because of boundaries too but I wanted to let you know I was thinking about you.

((((OE)))) Boundaries is a very good topic...thank you for starting this thread and for sharing. My brain is a big jumble right now. Will write more later... thinking of you

[Beachboxer]

Open Eyes- Thx so much for your post. My history with music is the same,loved singing,played,wrote,performed..LOVED it. Can't listen,sing..CD's packed away, Guitars stored at friends for years..I try & can't..It makes sense now..I am just learning how PTSD has affected me..looking back..since the memories & flashbacks etc started coming

[Open Eyes]

((Little Me))), (((Rose))) and (((Beachboxer))),

Yes, there is a lot to "boundary issues" that can be very overwhelming. I experienced a big PTSD "surge" or "episode" the other day in a thread and I know a lot of people do not understand why that happens. People who do not have PTSD truely do not understand it. And people who have PTSD that deal with these triggers,surges, episodes also get very confused as well.

I have noticed in my time here that a lot of people do struggle. A lot of people think that it is "their fault" as well. And many feel that they are misunderstood and that no one will understand how challenged they are.
And they also feel that they have to "hide it" and push forward anyway.

A lot of people think that when they go through their lives and face tramas, abuse, neglect, and difficult experiences that they just "get past" these things. That is what I thought, and I never expected to experience this PTSD. And when I am told that I was a "survivor" it doesn't make me feel better. I never realized how my past affected me the way it did either. We begin to think that we need to just keep moving forward and the past is the past. We believe that we have to be strong and keep pushing forward and not to let things bother us and that if we do, then we are the only ones to blame for that. I have heard that time and again in my life, but the truth is, when we have life challenges it does affect us and it becomes a part of who we are as well.

I had someone ask me how the loss of a pony and my heartache has anything to do with how I surged in that thread. That is nothing new to my challenge either. Because that is what broke me, that occurance was so much, so much loss that I completely broke. It was all because a big BOUNDARY was crossed and disrespected and the result was too much this time. So all the broken boundaries are coming together into this big challenge I have now called PTSD.

What I did have though was how a bunch of things came out of me in that surge, in that thread in writing. And many who struggle with PTSD do come to realize that when a surge comes, they unload a lot of connecting things that all come together in their personal challenge.

After the surge subsided, and I am sure many know about that. I went back and reviewed all my writing. And looked at it in a different way and I could see how I had an original thought and other things came in and to others, what I said could be taken in a very different way.

I have seen that happen to others in the past in my time at PC. And what often happens is they get punished and I am sure they have regrets, even feel bad about how they over reacted somehow too. And what often happens is they either want to "run" and leave PC, or they stay quiet and stew, or they somehow feel like their anger was justified but they are not allowed to express it and no one thinks about "their" feelings. And I am sure somewhere in that tangle they begin to "self blame" or even feel like they are "unworthy of participating" and "interacting" somehow.

I was no exception to feeling that way either. But I really worked on pushing myself past that. I looked at what came out of me, and I do know that the healing with PTSD always comes "after" a challenge or emotional burst. And then I realized that what I did get to see could be a very valuable tool for "healing" and "growing" and "learning" and "gaining". Because it is in writing so I can see how my brain struggled.
I can also see how others would not see it, and why it happened. And it was about a boundary being crossed that inspite of my efforts to say "don't do that to me" I was ignored and I did try to let go, but it kept coming and I broke into a surge. And it is particularly challenging because I cannot say what I want out in the open either. And that is a challenge that goes extremely deep and to some very dark times in my life. But, this is something I have also seen others challenged with as well. Rose, you are having this kind of challenge going on in your life right now outside PC. It is not the same dark place, but it is every bit as deep and challenging.

Someone said to me "ignore" and "avoid" and "dont go there". But in all honesty, if I don't try, then how will I "learn" because I can't "avoid life".
And what happened in that thread will happen in other places too. Someone also said, you must be very lonely and that is why you come to PC.

Yes, I am lonely, very lonely with PTSD and no one IRL other than my T can relate to that. I struggle alot, I know that I might over react and cannot help it right now too. I tend to isolate, and the things I used to thrive on, love to do and made me happy, I can't seem to enjoy them anymore. And that is PTSD.

The only way I can "change" and find my way out is through it and by taking the time out to sort it out and work on it. And I have learned in therapy that I am working through the stages of PTSD and that right now I am in the mourning stage. I am slowly mourning all the things in my past that were TAKEN FROM ME. The things I didn't realize EFFECTED ME SO MUCH. A lot of people are challenged by this, think they just have to learn how to "deal" somehow too. Well, I am seeing in my own life that many times my sense of "safety" was taken from me. I had to work around a lot of things, and I may have done better in my life if these challenges were not there. I do see that a lot now and some things are really sad too. I can't go back and change anything, but I can learn how that hurt me and how it made me who I am today and why I struggle so much right now in my life.

Yes, I did survive a lot of bad things in my life, I did a lot of productive things too. But I also carried a lot of deep inner pain that I just hid and never got to address in a real way, a way where I could be validated and finally grow past a lot of things I just thought I had to hide it all inside myself.

Boundaries;
I had experienced having my personal boundaries invaded and disrespected many times in my life. I didn't always know how to enforce my boudaries either. And many people have this happen to them and they are leary about talking about it, can be ashamed of it, or hold some very deep anger with it as well.

And often if we hold things in and struggle sometimes, can even be strong minded yet we can end up being very misunderstood by others. And sometimes we can be hard on ourselves because of that too. That doesn't mean we don't have the right at any time in our lives to pull back and take time out, be lonely even and finally figure it out.

Open Eyes

[Big Mama]

Open eyes you make me want to cry. (in a good way) You understand. SOMEONE REALLY UNDERSTANDS!!!!

I can't believe it you understand the lives of so many. I to have boundary issues and issues w/ being touched. I have worked on these issues w/ horses as well. It is T for me as I help them, horses, overcome and trust again. People are often amazed how otherwise angry dangerous horsed seem to take to me and become like a kitten. But in the face of abuse and neglect even an animal can since your pain and your suffering just like you can since there's. I have worked w/ many a horse and owner to make a compatible relationship. We are so much the same way. Afraid of people, afraid of being hurt, afraid to let people in, afraid of specific things from the past, whips, ropes, loud voices, being alone, horses and people have lots in common.

I sincerely wish you the best and want to thank you for all the doors you help open here. Your kind words and understanding have been so helpful to me and others to I'm sure. You are such an inspiration me. We wonder some times why God lets things happen to us, we struggle so hard and fight an endless fight against ourselves. Why would a God, our God, allow this. But look at the lives you have touched. The lives you may have saved, the folks you may have encouraged to get help, the people who just need someone to understand. Open eyes you are a gift from God and I know it sure don't feel like it but you have been given a special gift the gift of compassion and understanding. Take care.

We never over come our boundaries issues do we. We just become more accepting and that is only some times.

[Open Eyes]

Oh, ((Big Mama))), I didn't know you work with horses, yes, me too. I also worked with children too for several years. Yes, actually my T grew up with horses and we were talking and he said, horses and even dogs also get a PTSD from abuse. And do know that abused animals take a lot of time to help and teach to have trust again. I have a Mustang I rescued that was abused and I could not even brush him and he just about sat down when I tried to saddle him. My daughter and I did a lot of work with him and he is such a nice animal now.

My daughter just adopted a Lab from a rescue, he is a year old and was rescued in Georgia. Oh he was so frightened and she just held him and kept telling him he is going to be really happy and loved now and he slowly picked up his head and licked her face. She already has him going out with her and the Mustang on the trail and this dog stays right by her side. He doesn't let my daughter out of his site, if she does get too far from him he wimpers. He just doesn't know yet, he is never going to ever be abandoned again.

I am so glad to know you found such a nice outlet that brings meaning and purpose into your life.

But Big Mama, though you have boundary issues, in the past and now, you can slowly learn how to empower yourself. That is what has been missing in your life somehow, you still have a "victim" mentality, but you can slowly learn to overcome that. That is actually a big reason why I thought about starting this thread. I am working on that myself.

I talked to my T today about my recent struggles. And he told me that people who have been victims either shy away when they see others being abused or, they are strongly motivated to jump in to the rescue. He told me that is what I do. I told him that I always struggled with being misunderstood why I step up for others so strongly, he told me that is because I know the pain so intimately from being a victim myself. And many victims will stay in a bad situation because they never had the self empowerment to walk away, they learned to stay and take it. He told me that it is a big leap to "self empowerment" for some victims, but once they begin to do it they do so much better.

It really never means you are a failure Big Mama, you were a victim, that is all, not your fault. And YES, finally opening up and being around others that can validate you, understand you and open that door for you is a blessing. Somehow, what you do for each horse you help is what you needed too but never knew how to find it. You can work towards that.

" But in the face of abuse and neglect even an animal can since your pain and your suffering just like you can since there's." quote Big Mama

Well, it isn't just that they sense "your pain", they respond to your kind touch and soothing ways. I am sure you give a lot of encouraging touchs and talks to these horses and you make sure you do things the same way over and over so they learn to "accept" more. I also read somewhere that we can emit chemicals when we do that and animals can sense that. We are finding out that animals have feelings too. They have been studying that and even seeing odd connections of animals to other animals that were never imagined could happen before.

(((Big Hugs to you Big Mama)))
Open Eyes

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by Beachboxer

Open Eyes- Thx so much for your post. My history with music is the same,loved singing,played,wrote,performed..LOVED it. Can't listen,sing..CD's packed away, Guitars stored at friends for years..I try & can't..It makes sense now..I am just learning how PTSD has affected me..looking back..since the memories & flashbacks etc started coming

I am glad that you are seeing that, the next step is why you think that came to be. And take your time, you can say whatever comes to mind here. I understand you are just recently learning what in your past might have accumulated and you are now experiencing PTSD. It takes time to understand PTSD as well. Please don't be a stranger, lots of good people here to offer you support. You can work through PTSD and overcome it, so be patient and give it time.

OE

[Big Mama]

Open eyes, you did it again. You made me cry in a good kind of way. It hurts to know that someone cares. I know that sounds crazy. But I think you might understand. It hurts in the best possible way.

I can relate to what you were saying to the victim mentality. I am not feeling strong enough right now to take that leap. Instead I'm creeping like a snail towards a better place.

I was thinking about a very special little arabian horse. He was beaten and starved then turned out in a corn field and the corn stalks drove into his lower legs and it became big ugly scars. He was a great breeding horse though. One day I went in the barn w/ him (at his new home). I was talking to him and was in the stall w/ him. He was so relaxed w/ his head laying on my shoulder while I talked to him that my shoulder begin to ache. He was so relaxed. When the owner found where I was she was acting all weird. Trying to calmly get me away from this horse because he was a minice. He was really a big baby who had been hurt so much. Over time the man of the house was able to bond w/ this horse it took submission on the mans part to show the horse he was not going to hurt him. Generally you do not show submission to a stallion but this case was so much different. I helped work w/ this horse. I would sit in his pin and let him come to me. After awhile he would stand by me, some times he would even push me and want petted.

We can overcome our barrier's. A gentle hand and a kind word go along way. To be shown that you will not be hurt again takes awhile. That is how it was for this horse that is also how it is for my H and I. He has to show me he will not hurt me. He has to be quiet, calm, and gentle even in the face of anger and frustration. Some day I hope to overcome the victim mentality and move on in a positive direction.

[Open Eyes]

Well, Big Mama, from what I remember, you and your husband are in marriage counciling right? Has PTSD been explained to your husband as well? Do you feel that he is "trying" to understand and is making efforts to help you build trust?

I have been working on these things myself. My husband, as I mentioned is an in your space kinda guy and I find I have to be assertive with him constantly to remind him to ease up.

I see you as a very "caring" person all around Big Mama, and you may have been too passive in the past, just not knowing how to stand up for yourself.

For me, I was always very assertive and even walked away from bad interactions in the past, however my husband constantly overtalked whatever I said, and just followed me even if I walk away. I am so thankful that I have had a therapist explaining things to him, he does try and is more receptive when I try to communicate with him.

It takes time, but that happens in all relationships. Both have to "want" to work at it.

OE

[Big Mama]

He's learning to quiet his voice, keep his tone calm, not to blow up, to keep a huge space between us since my invasion of personal space is greater then the average. He is doing better and I feel a little safer.

My H is like yours, even if I'm watching tv he'll ask me to change channels, why did you do it that way, why is this not done, he's a very in your face kinda guy to. I am so not assertive. I'm very passive. I'll do anything to keep the peace and have who ever be happy. I really feel like this passiveness and willingness to please has helped contribute to me being raped many years ago. The T says I'm not at fault but I can't help but believe if I were more aggressive then that would not have happened. That is something else that needs to be worked on in the future. Letting go of blameing myself. But one snail crawl at a time.

I am much like a dog that has been beaten and finially gets a new home. I have to relearn it is ok to love, trust, be happy, that no one is going to hurt me, and eventually I'll trust again. I can feel myself going there a little more then I used to. But boy do I have a long way to go.

I am exhausted and overwhelmed right now...my mind is still a jumble. Between all the family stress, now work stress and personal stress, I am one giant stress ball. But even more than that, your posts are keeping me going and giving me strength to keep moving forward. To not give up.

I am so grateful to be in the company of good people who get "it". I don't feel alone and it makes all the difference. I carry you with me. Thank you

[Open Eyes]

(((Lots of Caring Hugs)))),

When someone is a victim and they can't figure out how to somehow fight back or stand their ground, or they never had someone, a presence that they could "trust" that could show them how, they begin to believe that they are the ones that are somehow at fault. And they often grow passive and learn to "give in" and if they do that "life is somehow managable" for them. It begins to develope into that sydrome (cant think of the name of it) where they begin to "sympathize" with the abuser. Their sence of empowerment comes from learning how to "accept abuse".

Often what happens though is they always want to do better and find a way to change that position and find "someone" that they can trust to stand up for them, show them, and even stand with them in support somehow. So, what they become to be attracted to is others who "seem to show the self empowerment" they are looking for. And at first that person can "seem" trustworthy and the right choice as well. However, once the victim gets caught into a relationship with this kind of person, they can find out that they are now in control of another abuser. Then they wind up reverting to what they know, being passive and working around the abuser's control.

In most of these situations though the abuse starts to escalate to a point where the victim's life becomes very disfunctional and it also theatens to dismantal all "positive gains" as well. A victim is torn between love, and trying to find a way from stopping the abuse that can even be hurting their children as well. However, sometimes a victim can be so controlled that their children suffer but they side with the abuser and practice being in "denial of the damage being done to the children". (Rose, that is your father). If "abuse" is not physical and obvious the victim may think it is acceptable on some level as well. It can lean towards the abuser (a narcisistic parent) 'S ability to look like there are financial gains as well as gains in society thinking they are "good, important, successful, smart and worthy of respect).

A victim will say, "I want to stand up, get away from the abuse, but I am stuck, no one will believe me, he/she has highly influential friends who are lawyers, and prominent people and they will not see the "real monster" I am living with". And they even remember how long ago they too thought this abuser was strong and trustworthy and got caught up in their web of control. Abusers, can seem "very nice" and they are very good at DECEPTION. Abusers can even PLAY A VICTIM, POOR ME THAT WOMAN/MAN IS HURTING ME. They somehow get VERY GOOD AT DECIEVING and even get a high when they GAIN CONTROL AND TRUST. And if an abuser/preditor feels threatened by anyone who knows their game, they will pull together all their skills and "friends/power/believers" into disliking the one person who stands up to them THEY ARE VERY GOOD AT THAT. All we have to do is remember Sandusky and how the University was trapped into DENYING WHAT HE WAS REALLY DOING.

This isn't "just" a domestice problem, it is in all walks of life. Think about Bernie Madoff, he was really good at "deception" and hooked some very influencial and successful people into believing him and trusting him. Many of his victims were so "ashamed" that they never even admitted they were one of his victims. These abusers are REALLY SMART and will openly proclaim THEY ARE SMART AND MAY EVEN HAVE HIGH GRADES IN SCHOOL TO PROVE IT or some proof that they have a HIGH IQ.

I am talking about all of this so that anyone who is challenged, dealing with PTSD, and some kind of victim mentality, understands IT IS NOT THEIR FAULT and NO YOU ARE NOT A FAILURE.

The journey to healing is to finally face the past, learn to understand it, and how to slowly learn to "self empower" and find yourself and finally get to a point where you truely do believe in who you are and your rights to learn how to better function and find permission to "be who you really are". And part of that is also grieving because if you have been a victim, someone took things from you and that was "permission to be yourself and thrive" the way you deserved to "thrive". But to also understand that you are not alone in this challenge either, there are many people that face the same challenges.

I have met people who are so intelligent and I have heard them talk about how they have made efforts to help others who have been victims in someway. But, they often stood alone and may have even had to do their work alongside others that were smart but "manipulitive and selfish and abusers as well". And these people that I have come to admire are often very "misunderstood" and mistreated. Their extreme intelligence and perhaps some awkwardness has led to them being considered as "an abuser" of somekind.
And sadly they grew angry, and even angry at themselves, turned it inward, and will utter "I am never going to be able" and they suffer depression and they don't know how to get rid of this anger that keeps them imprisoned somehow. And I want so badly to reach out to them and give them what they always needed because they really did have the "beauty of the right stuff" I so admire.

Big Mama, this is what you do with the horses, me too. But there are times when I cannot get to these abused animals/people and yet I somehow see them continue to suffer "unfair and continuing abuse". And when I do see that, it always pains me to the depths of me. Because I know to the depths of me the challenge and how it can turn into being misunderstood.

((((Hugs means permission to let yourself be))))
Open Eyes

[Big Mama]

Being/feeling as you are the victim does tend to make you feel hopeless, powerless, crazy for staying in that situation when it is so obvious what you should do.

OE - do you have some training in this subject or has life been very unfair at some point. You seem very knowledgeable about this subject and many others. You are very articulate. I appriciate what you have to say. It helps so much. It comes across as you have some formal training in such things. Just curious. I also know life deals us an ugly hand now and again but those things can be used to help mankind further down the road. We just don't realize it at the time.

Thank you for all your insight.

[Open Eyes]

(((Big Mama))),

Well, it isn't necessarily "training" in the sense you might think. I did suffer abuse as a child, a disfunctional environment as well. But there was somehow enough in the way of "positive" messages that I was able to grab onto somehow and have it be a reminder to "keep trying".

One of the messages that always stayed with me is "forgive them father, fore they know not what they do". And I cannot remember when that message came into my life. But every single day when I climbed onto that school bus and witnessed so many children bullying my brother who I knew had something wrong with him I had that constant burning desire to understand "why". I was exhausted by the time I got to school, struggled to stay awake and be able to learn, and part of that was because I also knew that I had to endure that same upsetting bus ride home, know my brother was near his breaking point, and how that was going to be taken out on me.

I hit the ground "running" and mom was not home, I was often left with my older brother alone for a couple of hours. I was running one day and so frightened (i always felt if he caught me he might kill me). One day I was running and saw a group of very tall and thick evergreens in front of me. I ran to them and once I got inside them I could see all the branches that showed me a ladder I could climb and so I did. I climbed to the very top, they were very tall trees too. And there was enough thickness to the greens that I truely was hidden. I can remember being so high and the trees swaying back and forth and how soothing that was. I could see my brother wandering around calling my name out, and he never found me. I felt that "god" had lead me to that place and I prayed the whole time I was up in these limbs.

When they talk about how the monks that pray deeply can produce warmth to their bodies inspite of the cold, I believe it because in a way, my praying helped to warm me somehow too. I often hid there in the cold and didn't have enough warm clothes on.

My focus on "learning" was more about "observing" people. I grabbed onto anything that talked about "understanding people". While most children are distracted and into themselves etc, I was different, I was observing and looking for anything I could find about "people and how they are and whys". It could be in a Bible, a history book, a story, something a teacher says, and my brain held onto all these messages. And when I was up in the trees, I prayed and constantly asked for help so I could learn how to survive and not be so scared. And somehow I learned that my answers would come if I kept observing too. I could even come from another child that asked me a question or said something I never tought of or considered before.

Children listen to stories and they like it. But I listened differently, very intently to the messages and I sent them deep inside me. I was so challenged every day that I had to focus on these messages so deeply to help me keep going somehow. However at the same time I was so stressed (I didn't know what anxiety was) that I struggled to learn like other children were learning. I did learn but I always felt I was way behind, like I missed something that I should have had, the beginning part a foundation was not there somehow. I always felt like I had to do my best to keep up without that foundation. And I felt like that most of my life, but never quite understood what it was or meant.

I understand that now, I see it and it is sad and I cry alot and sometimes I feel like maybe it would be better if I didn't know it like I know it now. My early childhood years were so tramatic to me that that foundation I needed was not there for me.
That bus ride began when I was just turning 5 and was way too young to understand that tormenting atmosphere and how it would not just be on that bus but after and how I never felt safe. So in Kindergarden when other children were getting the basics, I could not just sit in class and be calm and pay attention, I was too stressed out and distracted. It was so bad that when I went to first grade, I still could not pay attention and it was too hard so I was sent back to Kindergarden and because my brother stayed back too, I never got a break of having time alone on that bus without him there and being tormented.

I grew to believe that I just was not smart enough and that I would have to "fake it" and do the best I could anyway. I did learn and pass, I didn't realize that it was actually because I was very smart that I did learn even though I was constantly tramatized. I never saw myself as smart, I just thought I was just good at being
resourceful somehow, but not the real deal smart.

It was not until I saw my records from psychiatrists and therapists that I saw myself described as "extremely intelligent". Every time I was told I was smart or talented I never accepted that as truth, I just felt I had fooled them somehow and they didn't see that I was not very smart.

My therapist has told me that I was the "gifted child" that never got seen or helped or valued or recognized. Because I was the youngest child my siblings controlled me and I was also abused so I never got a chance to take real advantage of being a very smart and talented child.

It has been difficult to understand that "victims are not stupid" and often they can actually be very intelligent. I have cried so many times because I see how hard I tried and how sad it really is. I learned so much about being "assertive" too, and I often had to be strong too. But that often invited in more abuse and I was often put in a position of having to accept it on some level to survive.

My survival turned into seeing many things that others often missed but I had to know about to survive. I developed ways to "self empower" without realizing that it was because I was smart.

My business that I built up was all about that and I did that inspite of a lot of disfunction and a very difficult marriage. When that was destroyed I thought I could get back up again like I had done so many times in my life. But it never came, and I developed PTSD.

When I went into the psychward I kept asking for rest and grief counciling. But I was so angry too. I talked about having some time at a beach somewhere, a vacation or something because that is how I was able to bounce back from that whole colonoscopy debacle I had just been caught up in. But the psychiatrist thought I was just some narcisitic lady who felt entitled to some get away.

When I talked about the value of what I had, how it was priceless and so important to me, a therapist didn't get that at all. And I did have some very "valuable" animals lost, never thought I had to have the appraisals with me. She totally misunderstood me and said I had "illusions of grandeur".

No one understood how I valued what I had, no one. It had nothing to do with me thinking I was above others or grandios. It represented something I had managed to create in spite of so much abuse, something that was "good and productive" and allowed me to be even more "resourceful' and help my daughter have what I never had. There was no "illusion or bad" there, everything I built up was all about helping others in very "genuine and selfless ways".

I had a child that I loved soooo much that struggled with "dislexia" and having a father that put a healthy home and safe enviornment at risk. I worked very hard to help my daughter learn and grow strong IN SPITE OF HER HANDICAP and even that she may have inherited her fathers genes to become and alcoholic which could really be the case as he too has dislexia.

When I had my daughter, I thought it was the most beautiful thing, this amazing human life. I never wanted her to ever feel like I felt growing up. She was the most beautiful child, so alive and active in mind and smiling and alert. I wanted to do everything I could for her.

I have made it a point all my life to observe, learn and use it all to "survive".

It isn't really one source or teacher. I took every single postive from everyone I met, every different enviornment I was in. I don't think there really is "one source" that trains truely professionally. It is an accumulation that allows that real abiltiy to happen. And it also comes for engaging and utilizing it all in your own way to find ways to "self empower" in life.

There are so many ways to pick up information about people and how they form skills that can even manipulate. I learned all about that when I decided to try selling vacuum cleaners at a young age. Yes, there is a whole way of "sales" and tricks to that job. I didn't like the job, but I learned so much about "manipulation and what sales is all about from that experience". I tryed sales a few times and kept learning more. Success to me was not about the sales at all, it was learning about what that "human interaction" was all about. And even "business" and how it grows from that. Being a waitress? So much to learn there too, so much interaction in that enviornment. I went to business school and learned about the people there too, and I spent time not in one job but as a temp and wow I learned so much from so many different enviornments there too. I spent time working for a top psychiatrist doing research at yale that revolved around studying criminals that commit crimes because of social situations that were stressful where they could not produce enough means to survive and thrive.

Actually in my own small business, I was in so many different enviornments all kinds of different human classes, cultures, and places. I learned so much it was really something I thrived well in doing. There really was no real way of placing a "value" on that, not that I could seem to explain. This is the first time that I think I might be "understood" in trying to explain it all.

And I included my husband and daughter in that environment and I watched them also grow and learn and it was all soooo good for my family. My daughter has a much more broad understanding to her than a lot of other girls her age all through her teens and even now.

My husband stopped drinking and went to AA, but he also got to learn in my business and it helped him gain and start to learn like I learn and it all was so healthy. How could I explain what I had created that was so good in so many ways. It was not in my check book but there was so much there, the farm and a healthy way to look at life and actually have "self esteem". How can anyone put a dollar value on that?
But it all got destroyed so badly and I didn't have the answer for it all. That all took years for me to build, and it was just gone.

Open Eyes

[Big Mama]

Open Eyes, Thank you so much for an explanation. God is great. He does give us the things we need to get over the hump doesn't he. When things don't go so great I think about God. No where does it say trusting him will be easy. The bible says he will never leave you or forsake you. And all things work to the good of those who love and glorify him. He didn't say all things will be good, or feel good, or be easy but more or less it has a purpose for the good. Who would have thought at the time you were dealing w/ all this as a child it would turn out to be a blessing to others. That it would be a tool to help others. You may have very well saved the life or someone else, you have given others hope, you have given me hope.

Thank you for all you say and do. So you own a horse business now and you travel w/ the horses and give lessons is that correct. I used to work on a horse farm w/ 40 arabians. It was a most humbling experience. I got to work w/ abuse, neglected and fearful horses. Other horses would come in because it was a breeding farm that had had personal vices and we got to work w/ them and help them become safe to handle so they could be breed. Since carrying a baby and being a mom often changes a horses disposition for the better.

[Open Eyes]

"When things don't go so great I think about God. No where does it say trusting him will be easy. The bible says he will never leave you or forsake you" quote Big Mama

Well, the truth is Mama, we actually "all" have a part of our brain that has this "god sense" to it. So, yes, it is true that God never does leave you, nor does God make or allow "bad" things to happen. People get very confused by that and often to their own undoing unfortunately. Because they don't believe in or have no proof of "miracles" or the mystical things that are talked about in different "religions". And we have people who say they are "athiests" which is sad to me really because it can lead to someone not truely developing that great part of their brain.

Take the Bible for example, many tend to think that book is all about "a" religion or Christianity. But that is just what "man" has done, not the reality of that book. That book is inspired and written by human beings that were utilizing that "god part" of their brains and it is one of the most profound books of "philosophy" there is. We think about what is written in the Bible as being "devinely inspired" because it has such a relevance to "humanity" and how Humanity thrives best, in it. What I quoted and learned myself "Father, forgive them, fore they know not what they do" is so very relevant today and the more we learn about the human brain and things like "dislexia" and other human challeges (even that of my own brother) that lead to "misunderstanding" each other is very much one of the ways "fore they know not what they do".

There are other religious books that have "similar" messages and those messages bring a sense of "self empowerment" as well. The act of praying and saying "minatras" has shown to tap onto that "god part" of the brain that actually brings a sense of "empowerment" and "reason for thriving" as well as "sense of inner peace". Unfortunately, because "man" has discovered the power of this and reconized how it helps us feel empowered has lead to forming different religions that we seem to need to defend these religions, even to the death and distruction of ourselves.

I have been very privilaged in what I do to be able to "view" how different religious groups form communities around a religion. I have seen that it provides a connection and a guide to come together and how it provides a sense of safety and closeness and is also good for children to grow up with. So I can understand why that religion is so protected because it works so well, it gives the sense of structure that a comminity can build on, connect on, and have a sense of togetherness and respect for each other in such a meaningful way to take place.

What I fear most is if we walk away from tapping onto that part of our brain. If we encourage more and more to not have "religions" and faiths, and just be all one community with guidelines we truely will lose something very essential to our ability to survive and thrive through lifes challenges.

All our most "prized and valued" leaders such as Abraham Lincoln, Martin Luther King, all our forefathers that have founded America based on this philosopy that is the recipe for healthy human life, all utilized this very significant and important part of their brains and they did want respect to all religions to take place too. But the list of these important men is even longer and can even be found in different religions, the important men that brought well being to human existance all tapped onto this important part of their brains. If we discourage this, we will surely become lost and will perish.

What was the "real" significance of Jesus turning the tables over in the market place and saying the money changers are not good? He never talked about building churches or different faiths like we have now either. He talked about the recipe of how to use this "god part" of our brain and how to care about each other in meaningful ways. The answer given when god was asked who he was, the answer was I am everywhere, I am in you. The advice was given not to worship "things or idols" as well. The "money changers" is about how people use "material wealth" for power and control of others which can become so unhealthy for all.

If we think about what happened to many of these men with these important messages, what happened to many of them? Abraham Lincoln was assassinated, and Jesus was executed and Martin Luther King was assasinated, and even Kennedy was assassinated not all of these men lived to ripe old ages. Somehow they had to be extra strong too but what threatened them was "a fear of them gaining power" or taking power away from others.

I am not trying to sell anyone any single religion either. I am not even telling anyone to "question" their own faith either. But, to consider what it means and why "religion" can provide so much to humanity. Because as we are now discovering, it utilizes a part of the human brain that is significant to our survival. It stretches back and has a meaning that many can see in the Bible and even other religious books that touches on "how to thrive" in a the best way together as human beings. As time passes and we evolve and learn about ourselves, we keep looking at this book in marvel at how significant is has been throughout our human history.

I have said somewhere, "value not what you can carry in your hands but what you carry in your heart".
Because that is the real secret to living a healthy life. And I personally believe God exists and our brains are designed to honor that presence. But I feel that because we do not understand the real meaning of it, we put our own labels on it in different religions.

I am actually honoring your faith Big Mama, but I have other friends, good people, and they are Jewish, Buddists, and other faiths, but they all have "faith" and tap on it in very meaningful ways. It is "man" that pulls it apart and labels it and tries to own it somehow. And it is man that tends to "use it for power" in some way too. And that is why our forefathers were smart enough to try to establish "government" being separate from "religion".

With that in mind, you have meaning Big Mama, you do have "depth to you" and you do have "gifts". If you really "look" at your husband and "his" issues, those issues have a reason for being there. He has been challenged in his life too, and his challenges have led to who he is as well. It is important that "he" learn about that and it isn't just about giving you space and trust either. It is more about understanding ourselves in a deeper way. For your husband, he has to know he is not giving up control or something in himself, he has to learn it can empower him as well.

My husband was bullied on the school bus too. He was dislexic so he learned differently and was often misunderstood, even carried a sense of not being good enough somehow, and like all dislexics carried it emotionally. He also tried to stand up to the bullies, was beaten badly, broken shoulder and was thrown around, didn't win the fight, but made sure his opponent didn't walk away painless either. And that deep feeling of "not being good enough" somehow led him to becoming an alcoholic.

My husband has scars too, many men do and just "hold their scars in" and they can develope some bad habits because of that "inner pain". My husband was also told to make his living using his head instead of his hands. But he is talented with his hands, it is how he was designed to be how his grandfather who told him that was also designed to be. My husband makes his living with his hands and he also likes to be around people, part of his gift as well.

Big Mama, you do have a gift and yes, you do have to learn to trust and find your way to learning to have a better relationship with your husband. You "both" have to work on this challenge. You do have to be assertive and you should look up how to be that way, it does work better. But, it doesn't change your husband's deep issues so he has to work on that as well.

When you talk about "not having friends" well you have felt too "broken" to believe you can have friends. You say other people would cringe if they really knew you. I am not cringing, people you have come to know in PC are not cringing. All people carry scars, that is life, it does that to everyone.

The world is full of people who "disrespect" boundaries. It is sad but true, makes life hard as well. PTSD is a really challenging disorder, it opens the floodgates to all the things that truely hurt us somehow, it is a painful disorder. So, yes it is a very challenging disorder, but with the right help and time and support, I believe it can be "overcome" but it takes time. It does help when we decide to work towards "self empowerment" inspite of whatever way we have been hurt or scared in our past.

Open Eyes

[lostgman]

Thanks for sharing your struggles and what you have learned from those struggles OE. You never know who's life you touched just by sharing.

Gman

[Open Eyes]

Originally Posted by lostgman

Thanks for sharing your struggles and what you have learned from those struggles OE. You never know who's life you touched just by sharing.

Gman

Thank you my friend, you have helped me a lot too, more than you know.

What I hope that your wife will be told, has to know, is that inspite of what happened to her, she still found her way to "empowering" herself. This journey is not about her "needing to hurt" at all.
The only thing it is focusing on is to just help her understand herself better, answer some questions, make sure she realizes that she was a victim and it was "not her fault". And what to do with the anger that may still be inside her that she may not have known how to let out.

I think she is somehow thinking she has to wait to be haunted or hurt again by this PTSD. It isn't about that, it is just finally addressing these things/emotions/fears/pain that comes out and finally put it all to rest.
She doesn't have to believe that she needs to be afraid of it either. She doesn't have to be made to feel "embarassed" about it either.
It doesnt mean she was wrong or is at fault or is damaged in any way at all.

Open Eyes

[Beachboxer]

Originally Posted by Big Mama

I was thinking about a very special little arabian horse. He was beaten and starved then turned out in a corn field and the corn stalks drove into his lower legs and it became big ugly scars. He was a great breeding horse though. One day I went in the barn w/ him (at his new home). I was talking to him and was in the stall w/ him. He was so relaxed w/ his head laying on my shoulder while I talked to him that my shoulder begin to ache. He was so relaxed. When the owner found where I was she was acting all weird. Trying to calmly get me away from this horse because he was a minice. He was really a big baby who had been hurt so much. Over time the man of the house was able to bond w/ this horse it took submission on the mans part to show the horse he was not going to hurt him. Generally you do not show submission to a stallion but this case was so much different. I helped work w/ this horse. I would sit in his pin and let him come to me. After awhile he would stand by me, some times he would even push me and want petted.

We can overcome our barrier's. A gentle hand and a kind word go along way. To be shown that you will not be hurt again takes awhile. That is how it was for this horse that is also how it is for my H and I. He has to show me he will not hurt me. He has to be quiet, calm, and gentle even in the face of anger and frustration. Some day I hope to overcome the victim mentality and move on in a positive direction.

Big Mama
That's a GOOD Horsewoman - PERFECT Rescue ranch !! I would never
treat a horse any other way - I think we might have some things in common

[Big Mama]

beachboxer you have knowledge of horses. I'd love to hear more.

[Open Eyes]

I posted this somewhere else, but I feel that it is also very relevant in this thread too. And when you read this, please don't let this get you down, but instead understand that it means that you are not alone and that if you understand this, you can use it to for communicating your feelings, even bring it to a therapist too. I think it embodies how many feel that struggle with PTSD and boundaries as well. So just think about it and anyone is welcome to post to this, add their thoughts about it too.

When someone is a victim they are hurt in ways they don't always understand.
And from the moment "safety" in anyone is compromised, that person begins to have a sense of "low self esteem" because someone "overpowered them in some way".

The one thing that a victim begins to "respect and need" is "truth". People who suffer abuse begin to wonder why and what they want is the "truth" most of all. The "truth" represents "safety" as well.

When you go and sit with your therapist and she asks you "how was your day, or how was your week" you struggle with that question because you know that it is important to "speak the truth". So, from the very beginning of therapy your "self esteem" weakens. And often the rest of the session fades away into "it is not helping me"

One of the problems with a victim not telling the truth, is that they deeply fear they will be handed answers to their struggles that will only make them feel worse. They feel that they are "unworthy" because that is how their abuser made them feel, their pain was not important, their job was to just take it and shut up and give in. What they want to do is "hide" and find ways to shut out the world and somehow create their own "safe" world, and that often can creep toward wanting to sleep alot too.
((Obj)) that is your answer, your way of being safe.

When you sit with a therapist you are across from someone who appears to you as being strong, intelligent, capable, well educated, and may be "judgemental" if you really talk about "your personal struggle".

So when you are asked, "how was your day or week" instead of saying the truth, which is something you know is important, you try to find ways to "avoid the real truth and you say you are ok". All victims feel that no one will understand them or can really help them, because no one did that when they were victimized. And in many ways the person who abused them told them that. And because they were overpowered, they believed it on some deep level. A victim begins to "believe they are powerless, no one will believe them or understand them". A victim is deeply confused about how they feel and they can get very tired and depressed about it so they try to "avoid" it because they don't think anyone can truely help them.

Your therapist is "healthy" and you are afraid of that, you are afraid of her seeing the real you, and you have learned to protect that, because other people have showed to you that they will not help or believe in you. Your piano teacher did that to you, that situation was very close to what an abuser did, told you to the depths of you that you were "unworthy" and even "damaged".

When it comes to abusers, they can be someone everyone fears or dislikes and they are a threat but "you" are their main victim, so because you know "everyone" fears them, you wont get helped. Or, they seem to be so liked and respected by others that you feel that "no one will believe they are hurting you". Somehow your message is that if you are "honest" and try to get help, "no one will believe you or really help you". And you also know that if the abuser gets really angry because you try to tell, they will really hurt you and punish you. There will be too much risk so you are trapped somehow. Children do not understand how to deal with this, even adults can't deal with this problem. And often a victim can be a target for others to pick on, overpower and abuse and they form a "victim mentality". But they don't truely understand what that means so they find ways to "hide" and "withdraw" and they don't think anyone will understand that, so for them the truth is not something they believe anyone will be able to believe or help them with.

When people say that "you are not trying hard enough" it hurts because the mere fact that you are trying at all takes a tremendous amount of effort for you. And no one is going to see that, so you begin to feel hopeless as though it will only be a matter of time before you fail and someone will abandon you or let you down somehow. And that means you were right, it was just too hard and all your effort was a waste of time. You think in the back of your mind "if only I could get past that somehow" so you continue to "try" and make some efforts in ways "you can manage these efforts to control the hurt".

When you sit across from a therapist, to the depths of you this smart, educated, strong person just "ISN'T GOING TO UNDERSTAND THAT". And that is why most people give up on therapy. They begin to think that they are the only ones that can see themselves and it is them that has to find a way to figure it out somehow. And they really want permission to "climb into bed or withdraw when it just gets too hard".

Does that sound familiar?

A good therapist will understand this and help you, really help you, but they have to see it and know that it is very hard for you and you will need to withdraw and they need to know to back off and let you do that. And most of all, they have to believe you because if they don't it will not help you at all, and it is already very hard to sit across from them and hope they really can see "you" the way you need them to. Because to the depths of you, you already know no one else has truely "seen you" and helped you. And you want so bad to find that "special rescuer" but you never seem to find that person. You want that presence that can know your pain so badly, someone who will somehow sweep you up and hold you and give you the validation and permission you really need to find your way to thrive somehow. If only someone could "really see you" and you could look back at them with the "trust" you so desire, if only you think to the depths of you.

If only a therapist could really see, instead of asking questions and writing things down that say, patient could be this or that or they start to prejudge and misunderstand the you that you have become in order to survive somehow. Inside you is a very complicated puzzle and you are often so misunderstood and you keep getting hurt every time you try to make some kind of effort somehow. Your life becomes more about "who is going to hurt me next"? How is a therapist going to see that? you wonder.

If this is you, what I can say, what many can say is "me too".

Open Eyes

[Big Mama]

Does this sound familiar? OMG Yes. Sleepy, I sleep alot. Tired I am so emotionally tired and physically to. Depressed absolutely. This is so much what like life for me. It is hard. When my H told me he forbid me to tell anyone I didn't for many years. I was afraid of the punishment. Only now do I realize when my H asked "What would he do" and I didn't know I was simply afraid and didn't know what of. It was easier to be afraid and be running from something and not know waht it was. If you knew then it would be extra scary. Turned out if you didn't know then it really couldn't have been as bad as imagined.

I remember one of the most healing times in my PTSD. My brother in law who was living what I was living at the hands of his wife though saw me at church. My eyes met his and he hugged me and just said I'm so sorry. He knew, he saw, he could feel my pain and I his. If only more people were like that. My H was jealous of him. His brother provided a stability he could not. My sister in law was jealous of me for the same reason. We couldn't talk to one another but we knew. We could feel one anothers pain and know exactly how the other felt.

My brother in law has since been put into a mental facility and is back and forth between facilities. My H demands no contact w/ him from me. He is a very ill individual now and I know it would not be healthy for me or my H and I's relationship to talk to my brother in law. I feel so badly I can't and shouldn't talk to the one person who understands me fully.

I have now put my faith in my T and so hope she doesn't screw this up. The fear of giving that trust to someone is paralyzing. I have to put my hope and faith in someone. (no offence God!) We just had a lesson at church about the hand of God and how he works therw people. We as humans need to have that eye to eye, skin to skin connection and God knows that. So it's ok to trust and have faith in people. Any way it is very scary to trust, to put it all out there, and take a risk.

Open Eyes thank you for understanding and sharing.

[Open Eyes]

Well, the "faith" has to come from you as well Big Mama, and that is hard for someone who is struggling with PTSD. There is a lot of unknowns for a while and people that have PTSD get very stressed with "unknowns".

I am very sorry about this friend you have talked about that you connected with. I hope that he gets the help he needs and is in the right place for him. Maybe someday the two of you will have some very healing words for each other. But for now you have to be on your own journey for a while. But your therapist will be there the entire time so you are not going to be "completely alone". It sounds like you have a good therapist Big Mama. So that is very good.

((Hugs)))