Memories

Today at my T appt, we started talking for the first time about one of the traumas that I've had to endure in my life. I'm looking for opinions because I'm having a problem with a certain aspect of it. My T said I'm thinking with the mind set of an adult and not that of the age I was at the time. I'm having a difficult time trying to put myself in the mind set of that particular age that I was. So, here is my question: First, think back, one or two generations, when things were more *innocent*, when kids didn't *grow up* as fast as they seem to today. I willingly went off with someone, my perpetrator, who was only a few years older than myself, basically another child, albeit *sick* one. Today, with my adult mind, I blame myself for doing that, why didn't I know better? My T said that I need to work on putting myself in the mind set of the age that I was and then I would realize that I didn't see anything wrong with that, she said I was too young. But somehow, my memories are telling me that I did know better then but I did it anyway. So, am I remembering from how I felt back then or am I thinking with the mind set of an adult? I can't remember, is it a memory or is it adult thinking? I have other *memories* from the same incident that don't make sense either but that's another subject altogether. Right now, I'm trying to figure out, did I know it was wrong to go off with another *kid* (the perpetrator) at the time? I'm sooooo confused. Remember, this is one or two generations ago. At what age would we know that going off willingly with someone that we don't know is wrong, even if it is another kid? PLEASE help me by throwing some numbers (ages) at me. I need to know, was this a memory or is it adult thinking.

angelgirl, i have great difficulty with that as well. i have a memory with the exactly same problem...i should've and did know better.

t and i came to this conclusion...i did feel that going with the person was wrong and i shouldn't be going...however, that child had NO idea of the complexity or magnitude of that decision in its innocent mind. so, while knowing i probably shouldn't go and might get in trouble...i had NO idea what would follow. it was not a consious decision to go and be hurt. i made a consious decision to do something i might get in trouble for but thought would be fun. i was 8.

that may not make any sense because these things are so hard to explain sometimes. however, i hope it does, and might help understanding of the magnitude of knowing wrong but not making a consious (sp?) decision for what happened.

good wishes.

At what age.. hmmmm... I think you are going after the wrong data.

If you were never taught some things, then you might never "know" at what age you should or shouldn't know some things.

I agree with your T. A child is generally innocent in thinking. You are making an excuse for the older child who led you away. We don't know the background of that child... that it wasn't an adult makes it even more impossible for you to declare that you , as a child, should have known better... we never suspect things that are about to happen unless it's happened before and we recall it.

A child is unable to discern many things... even well into teen years... which is one reason the law still calls us children until age 18, at least.

One thing, I think, that you might be battling... correct me if I'm wrong... but consider this: if you take some responsibility for what happened to you, then you feel more in control about it (even though you disagree with what decision you made then.) By having to realize that you COULD NOT HAVE DONE ANYTHING DIFFERENTLY, well, this shows how vulnerable you really were, and how you had NO control (then nor now) about what happened. It's a bad feeling.

You are not to blame. A child cannot cognitively understand and make such immense decisions... chldren usually operate on what a parent has told them, not on discermment. ("Don't talk to strangers." " You must wait for me to pick you up after school." etc.)

Feel better.

yeah, and what sky said. she said much better what i tried to not doing too good with words tonite. sorry

take care,

I was 9, he was 15. I didn't know him, I'd never seen him before. I later found out that he was a foster child who had a history of sexual assaults, I was his intended victim that day. What I'm wrestling with is whether I knew that it was wrong to go with him or not. I can't remember how I felt then and my T wants me to think like a 9 year old so that I can stop blaming myself for it. If I knew it was wrong to go with him yet I did it anyway, then I could've prevented it by not going. Am I making any sense?

And if I am not responsible in any way, shape or form, how do I erase that thought from my mind that I have carried for many years?

I just don't know how to deal with this.

Note: I do know that even though my parents never charged him (that's a whole other issue I'm having to deal with) that he very soon after my *incident*, raped another girl and was serving time in jail for that one. Now, had my parents charged him, that other girl would've been spared her trauma and for that I feel guilty.

I also feel ashamed of the whole thing. My T said I have nothing to be ashamed about. Isn't feelings of shame normal for a victim, right or wrong?

How do I stop my feelings of shame, guilt and blame? When you carry those feelings for years, you just can't forget them all in one day because somebody tells you they are misplaced, or at least I don't know how.

angelgirl, again, i understand what you're feeling as you've exprpressed in this post...if you're like me no one can tell you that what happened was not your fault, because it "feels" like it is.

you have to go by the facts right now. you were a young child not capable of know the magnatude of the decision made. you did NOT ask to be hurt, whether you were disobeying by going with him or not. also, you're feeling guilt about the other child. that's so hard and sad and unfortunate. however, you did the only thing you knew to do...you told mom and dad. it was up to them to report and press charges. i didn't even tell. you did really good there.

again, you did nothing to deserve what happened to you just like that other little girl didn't deserve it. also, you told who you could. it was their responsibility to take it from there, not yours.

i can only say i know your pain, confusion and anger with this. i hope someday that you can let go of the responsibility you've assumed. it's not yours to own...just like it isn't mine to own. i'm saying this to self as much as i am to you.

thank you for this post. it was en eye opener for me...more than you'll ever know.

It's not that I really had a choice to tell, the police brought me home. I'm feeling very confused and frustrated on what is childhood memories and what is adult thinking. I thought my memories were true but there is also another aspect of this situation that also questions whether it is memories or adult thinking. I find myself questioning the validity of what are memories and what isn't. Can I trust what I've thought all these years are true memories? Seems they are very much in question now. I thought I could remember this whole thing like it was yesterday. I have flashbacks all the time. But are they true? And then there is the letting go aspect. I've never been good at letting go of anything in my life that has really upset me. Another item for therapy. Why do I hold onto things that are so upsetting to me? I'd like to put all the bad stuff in the past and not have it bother me anymore but I really don't know how to do that. It's all very upsetting to me that I can't seem to do that. To tell me to just forget about it just doesn't seem to work for me. This has haunted me since I was 9. How can I just forget about it now or at least put it in the past so that it doesn't bother me. I remember seeing an Oprah show on this once and she said that it is like giving the perpetrator all your power, and she's right. He still has my power and has had all these years. But how do I get my power back???

I think I am more traumatized by this now than I was before we started talking about it in therapy yesterday. But maybe that's to be expected, that it will get worse before it get better?

At least I'm 100 percent sure with all my other traumas that my memories are true memories. I have no reason to question any of them.

God, why do people have to deal with all this horror!!!

I'm glad that you feel you are being helped by me talking about it. That's a positive thing.

I am sorry angel, I have had nine year old innocent children and 15 is not so innocent, even if one has not been abused and re-enacts the trauma. I can't tell you it's not your fault you were a little kid but I can tell you that when my babies were 9 I wanted to protect them and knew that they couldn't understand this complicated evil stuff. By the way, let me think. Yup, I was frequently molested by older brothers from 5 to 9 years older then me. What did I know of penis's back then? Was it my fault, should I have known better? I was a little girl who wanted to be loved and I had no idea what was in store for me most of the time. Please trust the nine year old. Nine year olds are pretty cool. Some of my best times are with 9-12 year old girls teaching art. Please be nice to the little girl.

I'm so sorry that you've had to go through all that. That breaks my heart to hear when someone else has also suffered. How are you coping with it? I know this is going to sound *really* stupid but I can see the innocence in your case. I seem to hold myself up to a different set of rules, a far more stringent set of rules. Why do I do that? The 2nd last time I saw my T she told me that I need to start taking my own advice. I know she's right but I don't know how to do it. WOW!!! "Please be nice to the little girl." Well that speaks volumes doesn't it? I've never been nice to me. I HATE me. Do you think that maybe I'll never be able to let go of all my traumas (of which there are several) until I can start to at least like myself? I think this is getting more and more complex for me. I think that sentence will stay with me for quite awhile and not in a bad way so don't feel bad about posting it. I think that maybe it sheds more light on things in my life. Something that I need to give deeper thought. Thank you for saying that.

(((angel)))) you have to quit "trying" and 'just' "allow" the information to go into your brain... think well, it might very well be true.... if you are having trouble realiizing what happened back then, how much more trouble do you think you would have understanding when you were little??? You couldn't.

Even "if" you remember your mother telling you to be careful of strangers... golly, haven't you ever seen the tv docu's about chldren who are "trained" to not go with strangers, and a professional/doctor can walk right up, make an excuse, and off they go! The childr's mind isn't programmed, normally, to be able to be vigilant. You're still thinking in the adult...

can you think about what your favorite things were as a child? books? hobbies? colors? maybe that will help you realize the innocence and naviete?

Gosh sky, why can't I even remember those favourite things as a child? Where did my childhood go? You're right, I am *trying*, I'm *trying* with everything I've got. I don't know how to *allow* the information to go into my brain. God, I feel so hopeless. I feel like I've lost my childhood. What's wrong with me, what's wrong with my f'ng brain??? Why am I finding this all so hard? I'll never be able to put this all behind me and God, this is only one aspect of that trauma. I have more that I'm dealing with too. Memories. I thought I knew what they were all these years but they've failed me. I can't trust them. I don't know how to deal with all of this. I want to get past all this, I really do, I just don't know how to *allow* and I don't know how to let it go. Letting go is very hard for me. Why can't I get my brain to do what I want it to do???

Hi Sweetie,
If you could get your brain to do what you wanted it to do whenever you wanted, you'd put every T and psych in the world out of business. I wish I could do the same thing -- exert complete control over my brain -- for both our sakes. Unfortunately, past pain seems to cling to us like a kingdom of barnacles on the side of a humpback whale. That's why we need each other. We can't scrape the barnacles away, but we can hold each other until the pain subsides, at least temporarily. I wish this could be a real hug instead of a cyber one, luv, (((((((((((Angel Girl))))))))))), but it's the best I can do for the moment. But remember: this moment will pass, and someday soon, I hope, flesh and warmth will replace this electronic embrace. Love and tickles, Cheshire Cat

Well, I certainly don't hate you. I love you. If you can't love yourself -- and you're right, you can't wash away years of thinking of yourself in a certain way because someone tells you to -- then try using my feeling for you as a substitute. Perhaps it would help if you think, "I may still hate myself for this, but Cheshire Cat loves me and sees no guilt." You were a child, just a child. The responsibility should have fallen on adult shoulders. They should have supported you; instead they failed you. You are NOT to blame. You never were. You never will be. NEVER. Not in my eyes. You are carrying around the guilt for another's failure. I see you only as someone who fell victim to a predator. Period. In my opinion, you were assaulted twice; once by the perpetrator, once by those adults who did nothing to step in and stop this from happening again. I will never see you as being guilty of anything. And I hope that someday, your eyes will see the same. love, Cheshire

Hi baby, thanks for the cyber hugs, I too look forward to the day when they'll be real hugs in the flesh. But if I can't find a way to put this behind me, along with all my other traumas, then they'll continue to impact me on how I behave and think today, I'll always need constant reassurance that I'm loved. I need to find a way to rid my mind of all these horrors that I've been holding onto for years but I don't know how to let go, even though I so desperately want and need to.

Sweetie,
Whether you manage to let them go or not (and I hope for your sake, you do), I'll still be there to reassure you that I love you, a hug and kiss at a time. Your furry shoulder to lean on, Cheshire Cat

OK, I'm going to try to:

Be nice to the little girl.
To *allow* my mind to change instead of *trying*.
That I was only a child and incapable of knowing the repercussions of my actions even if I did know it was wrong to go with him.
To forgive myself for going with him.
That the blame lies with the perpetrator and my parents for not getting me therapy at the time, for not charging him and for making me go through that entire police investigation on my own without them.
That even though I don't love myself, I can lean on my cat's love for me to carry me through this and to constantly reassure me that he loves me, so I am lovable even if I can't figure out why.

Hopefully, that will be enough to sustain me.....hopefully.
I'll have to keep repeating these things in my head over and over until they sink into my thick skull.

I'll be by your side, repeating them, too, just in case you forget. Your lovin' kitty, Cheshire

You always make me feel sooooooooooo good!!!

DAMN GEOGRAPHICS!!! BUT THANK GOD FOR TELEPHONES!!!

the more you hear it from every source... T, members here... the better... it will eventually change the way your brain processes the memory...

I was thinking the same thing. Thanks everybody for helping me process this. You've all contributed in a good way for me.

.

God, this thread depresses me so much now.