Wanting to find T's house

Blue: Her address was easy to find on one of the name and address search engines. Maybe now she will delete it. I didn't do anything devious to find it. Maybe she's a little naive like me and that's why I like her so much! It makes ME feel less creepy knowing what YOU did. We can start a sub-forum for "creepy clients", LOL. Yeah, I wanted to know if she lived in a huge house with lots of land, you know what I mean. But she doesn't and I'm relieved. It would be hard to relate to her if she did, though ha-ha I relate to her fine anyway. I just would rather she not be too wealthy--I want her to be more like me.

rainbow, blue, onlymedid...I want you guys to know that I don't find that creepy at all, that kind of curiosity, that kind of needing and wanting to know more. I know more about my T than she probably has any idea, so perhaps I'm not the best one to judge in this circumstance, but it just seems ok to me. Understandable, to want to know more about this person who knows so, so much about me. It's the only way I can achieve any type of balance in the relationship, otherwise it feels like she has all the power and I have none, and that doesn't feel good at all.
I like to say: I'm not a stalker, I just know my way around the internet.

I can tell you, as a client, and as a therapist, it's best not to do this.

Just this past week, a client showed up near the parimeter of my apartment -- and it meant immediate termination on my caseload and having to transfer them...

Please respect boundaries, for the safety of your relationship!

I understand the urge, as a client. I wanted to go by my therapist's home as well.

stormy, how did you know the client wasn't there for some legitimate reason?

I would never go to my Ts house. I wouldn't even drive close to it, unless it was an accident. I'd be too scared she would see me. My T doesn't live (or practice) in the same city that I live in, so there's that extra degree of geographical distance, too. That said, I certainly don't judge anyone who would drive by or has the urge to do find out more information about their T than what is available on their business card.

They had approached me as I entered my home. Saying "Oh, I wanted to see if you lived here!" They live on the other side of my apartment complex. Being on my porch/at my door, was a cross of boundaries, per my supervisor.

As I argued this with my supervisor, she stated : Being the therapist if you piss your client off, they may now show up at your home? Especially since they already were bold enough to simply hang outside my specific unit to confirm my residency.

wow, that must have been kind of scary, stormy! It was just the way you worded your first post, that they were on the perimeter of your apartment, I thought it was possibly a coincidence. Obviously not.

OK. Being "scared" qualifies as "so worried" and then worse. In my book.

If all you did--at the point you talked to her--was to look her up using some legal info source with info in the public domain, then I don't see a boundary crossing. And it seems your T is making a bigger deal out of what you did. If you too it further--in certain ways, I can see concern on her part, but for what you'd done? No. I think your T has a boundary issue herself personally. Your therapy is supposed to be about your thoughts and feelings, not the T's. She's supposed to manage her feelings. It seems to me she's blown it out of proportion at this point, causing you excess grief about it.

Would your T consider it a boundary violation if you looked her up in a phone book? That's essentially what you've described having done (at the time you spoke to her). And if you got more than simple address/phone, if it's from a legal resource in the public domain, that info is out there to be had and T's have to live with it. It's not 1990.

To me a boundary violation is a violation of privacy, personal space, getting involved in your T's life, etc. or some stated standard. You haven't contacted her, gone to her house, read her mail, sent her mail, talked to her neighbors of friends and family, hired someone to gather info not in the public domain, haven't followed her, haven't threatened, haven't eavesdropped, etc.

How experienced is she? It seems to me that she's put her (uncalled for) feelings of being scared front and center in the situation, when the topic should be what's driving these issues for you. What you said about wanting to know what her house and neighborhood are like fits exactly what went on with me.

imapatient - I disagree with you. Rainbow said "I looked up more than the average person would."

The T is setting boundaries and decent ones. Not all T's are computer savy and many do not have enough time to sit on the computer and have all their information removed from search engines or pay a company to do it, etc. Many of those search engines also list spouses and children living in the home, ages, cost of home, etc.

T is saying "this is not appropriate and stop." What if she has children living there? What if she has disabled adults living with her? That is her private business.

Again -- you say this isn't a boundary violation? Rainbow said she "went further than the average person."

And it is a boundary violation because Rainbow IS TRYING to get involved with her T's life. It is her intent. She stated she even printed out the Mapquest directions after T said stop.

You think it is wrong for the T to be scared? For what I see, Rainbow is fairly new to this T. She has extreme attachment issues. Sometimes, people with attachment issues go beyond normal behavior when they get angry or upset to "get what they what." There have been plenty of cases of T's killed by clients.

This T has every right to be scared and to state that. It is not about withholding her feelings, when a client's behavior MAY jeopardize the treatment. It has nothing to do with being a new or old T. It has to do with privacy and respect and choices. Rainbow also has the choice to be respectful and find other ways do deal with this issue or to break boundaries.

Im hoping she chooses to be respectful and stop looking up T and not drive by.

Look, i've certainly googled my T. Everyone has. People on these boards have even gone further.

I think you are dead on that the issue is not driving by her house, but rather the compulsion to do it. The stuff underlying that compulsion is the key. I would make that very clear when talking to your T.

I definitely would strongly urge you to not drive by her house if at all possible. When people say they are scared that does merit more than a little consideration and I think, like others, that it might result in a very negative outcome for you.

But I do understand the compulsion. Completely. It's so hard to find release from that, even equipped with loads of self-discipline, it's hard.

Every minute, every hour that you don't do this is a big victory that you can build on and say "I did it! I made it an hour" That hour will turn into a day, then a week....

Do you have anything that might help you in the interim? Distraction techiniques? Maybe exercising (god I hate that, but it works) adopting a pet? Bringing something brand new in your life? Medication that might alleviate the desire? Cleaning (god I hate that too)?

If not, I would recommend just continuing to post here. I, for one, certainly understand.

This will be okay. I have every faith that you can do what's best for yourself and your T.

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I agree with this, AND I also believe T's have the right and obligation to say something if they are uncomfortable. One way that a client can learn about boundaries is by watching T set boundaries in a healthy way.

If the rest of the session was about T being scared, why she was scared, how to manage her fear, etc. it would be completely inappropriate. But to say "it scares me to learn that you spent time looking up the genealogy of my family" is just an honest response that informs Rainbow of how her actions may affect others.

I agree.

Rainbow... you need to learn to overcome the feeling of being left out during a fifth grade... you are not in fifth grade anymore... You should learn to deal with your past, rather than dwell on it.

Imagine it was the other way and your T (or someone else) was going through your facebook, looked up your information on the internet... Some people are more "private" than others. If you T does not feel that including her personal life is beneficial (for all you know she may have some big issues of her own), you should respect that or find another therapist.

I'm sorry, but I have a real problem with this. Rainbow IS dealing with her past, and working hard at it. That kind of "get over it" attitude is so invalidating and unhelpful. Trying to just "get over" the past without working through it doesn't work, period.

I agree with you, Zoo, 100%.

I was hesitant to post, but seeing as I just got back from an awesome session with my therapist who rocks 95% of the time, here I go...

The most important thing, Rainbow, is that you talk to your T about what you are feeling, that you want to drive by her house, but yet you also want to respect her boundaries and that you feel very strongly about not wanting to scare her in any way. And hopefully she will try and find out what is behind your feelings, as I am sure there is a LOT going on for you here...especially because you almost have a compulsion to do the drive-by (I am OCD, and I understand compulsions, believe me ), but are resisting as hard as possible, which I give you big kudos for! And hopefully you are still feeling as if Googlemaps is enough for you today?

Anyway, the work you are doing IS dealing with your past and your present, and don't let anyone tell you otherwise! Stay strong, and most importantly, talk to your T! I know from your past posts that it took awhile for you to trust her, but now that you do, use that to build a stronger relationship, and help her to help YOU!

Looking up anyone on the Internet does not tell us about the person, only about choices the person has made for their lifestyle. One cannot get closer to a person from the Internet, only from being with a person one-on-one and talking with them personally.

Rainbow, you didn't learn anything at all from seeing her house. Have you heard of the book The Millionaire Next Door? Your T may be fabulously wealthy but have allergies :-) and thus not like the country and lots of land. Someone else might own the house, she could be just renting and/or a relative have given her the house to live in.

Wanting to know something about someone you care about is very natural/healthy but not asking them what you want to know about them is not. That's why there is a feeling of guilt and like we should "confess" when we search for our T's. Concentrating on your T though and what you want to know about her instead of on your own issues is not healthy and I do not think giving into a "compulsion" to act out and cross clear boundaries is helpful to you. Where will you set the boundary to not cross any more boundaries? Feelings are not in charge! Your decisions and actions are in charge.

Actually Perna, I disagree strongly. Looking up someone does tell you about a person.
For example, if you find that the person gives donations to a charity, it tells you that the person supports that cause and most likely there is a personal reason behind that donation.

If you find a posting about a person taking part in a Race for the Cure footrace, that tells you several things about that person.

If you find that the person goes to a certain church, it gives you insight into their religious beliefs.

If you find an obituary of a dead child, that tells you a great deal about the person as well.

If you find that the T lives in a certain part of town -- that can tell you alot as well. In my city, there are clear distinctions where people with "more money live, vs. "where liberals live" vs. "where gays lives" vs. "where poor people live" vs. "where the highly educated live" etc.


The appropriate thing to do is to stop searching the internet and ask the T. Then the T will have the right to answer the questions or say that the T's life is private.

But from the past interaction, it seems that Rainbow's T is not comfortable with her/him intruding into T's life. Talking about it forever is one thing, acting on it and choosing to behave disrespectfully is another.

I love my therapist, I mean really LOVE her (not in a romantic way)

And loving her means I have to act like I love her, I need to respect her boundaries, her privacy, I want her to feel safe, especially when she is with me, it would kill me to think I ever did anything to make her afraid of me.

Looking up where she lives was wrong, you need to back off, respect her boundaries. Caring about someone means you do what is right for them, not what will make you feel good, that is the definition of being selfish.

Rainbow, do you have OCD? I do and I know how hard it is to deal with obsessions and compulsions. I am sorry you're struggling.

It seems like I've started an interesting debate here! I can't respond to all now, but:

traction: yes, the googlemaps was enough for me. I also have some interesting genealogy in MY OWN FAMILY-a new lead to follow up, so I am doing legitimate detective work to my heart's content right now. I love it and it's the best distraction ever!

Just want to say one more thing. My T seems to be an open person. She's volunteered info. about her kids already. I think she will answer my questions. And for all who said: Yes, my compulsion to do this is what's important. I know that! I have a lot to talk about tomorrow, plus I do the collage.

Mike, I know that, but it's basically what I'm in therapy for. It's all related to my not being able to quit therapy.

rose, maybe I do have OCD but it's never been officially diagnosed. I'm obsessing about genealogy right now--much healthier since it's MY family, not Ts. But I have the compulsion to look up Ts--I did it before I started with my new T. To check her out. It's so easy with the internet.

I still google Bt to see if there is anything new about her.

So, I suppose some of you think using the googlemaps to see her house was crossing a boundary. I agree with you, but I don't think it's a crime.

I think learning to manage one's compulsions is very important. I know you have had several therapists in the past so probably have worked on coping strategies for dealing with compulsions. It sounds like what you are doing now is helpful in saying "no" to this compulsion to drive by your T's house, so just keep working it. You are in control and can make choices. Good luck with the collage tomorrow.

I did not mean to be harsh.

Rainbow, you need to realize that a lot of people are not keeping YOU specially out, but they have their bondaries for everybody. Keep repeating this to yourself when in doubt. People have "secrets" because of themselves, not because of you. And if you respect them, there are more chances of getting closer to them.

I forgot that I wanted to add that when your T told you about feeling scared that she was "self-disclosing" something to you...which means she felt like she could trust you with her feelings...and that this would most likely benefit you and make the relationship stronger....so I think it is actually pretty cool of her to be able to admit to you how she is feeling!

And I am glad that you have been able to distract yourself, Rainbow!

What you find on the Internet only tells you what you want to interpret what you find as telling you; what the person does is not the person and you know nothing without talking to that person.

I cannot "decide" or know why someone else does something without asking them. Someone going to a particular church might be because they are stalking a member of that church :-) There are a zillion reasons why anyone does any particular thing; I think that's why Pavlov and his ding-a-ling dogs and all the behaviorists have never figured out people any better than any of the other "scientists".

I am glad that I never did it after that one time. I felt so guilty and totally awful at the thought of someone doing that to me. It was so long ago and I am still trying to forgive myself for that. I couldn't ever do that now....I just wouldn't feel right. It's different if you bump into T out in public, we have had this conversation that she would not approach me, but I can approach her and say Hi.

This is an interesting discussion. I think it is possibly difficult to understand what went on in the session without being there. Did she really make the focus of the session her feelings? That she was scared? Having known you, you really arent a scary type but maybe she mentioned that having a client do these things would scare her. All said, I think she probably did focus on you and the whats and whys of this compulsion for you. It may lead to stalker behavior, but my sense it that (and you said it, too) it is some kind of mommy longing. When I was doing that with desk-t, there is NO DOUBT that it was mommy longing. I didnt realize it at the time.

Does talking about the compulsion takes the power out of it? Allow you to have some more control?

Another thought, we dont always have control or are savvy enough to know how to control what is out there about ourselves on the internet. So, is it really fair game if its out there? Or are we responsible to set boundaries?

I think you are working on this, Rainbow, and I SO understand you and I have to talk to myself not to dig on the internet.

A story: We moved a few years ago to where we live now. A woman from my old neighborhood who is, well, odd (for lack of a better word) and someone to stay clear of sent me a facebook message that went like this:

"Blue, Ive been following what you are doing on FB. I sent you numerous friend requests but you dont respond. I see you friending everyone else and chatting with everyone but me. Dont think I dont know that. I can friend (names of my teenage girls) and go in that way. Why dont you friend me?"

It freaked me out a little. I have no intention of friending her. She is definitely a stalker type. Not in a harmless way. She could gossip viciously about me and my kids and make stuff up. I got my boys (computer savvy) to set up my facebook so no one who isnt a "friend" can see my home page- even if they look up my name. If someone looks me up, I wont come up. But I never would have been able to figure out how to do that if I didnt have facebook fanatic teenagers who know their way around. Of course, I never responded to her at all.

My point is that even if info is out there on the internet, it doesnt mean its all fair game and the person knows or wants it all out there. This woman over stepped boundaries and even told me so (jeez!).