[sailboat]

Ok so without introducing myself properly I’m just going to say what my current problem is. I don’t feel good with having all my background in one post, I hope that’s ok.

So I’ve been seeing my T for half a year now (CBT) and I realized that I don’t truly trust my T yet. She’s really nice and caring but I’ve been betrayed countless times by “friends” who used my trust to get people to dislike me or bully me.

Anyway, I have yet to cry in therapy or let loose in general, which I can’t do. My T has now mentioned my ‘needs’ several times and asked me what I expect of her or how she should react if I either get a panic attack or start crying or something similar.

And I do not want to tell her. As soon as I tell her for example “I need you to somehow comfort me physically or come closer, not just sit there and stare” and she does it, then I don’t believe she did it because she wanted to but because I asked her to. And I want her to act genuinely! This is really important to me. Because all the ‘healing’ and ‘helping’ can only happen for me if my opposite reacts the way they would and not because I asked them to do it.

I understand that my T is somewhat helpless and doesn’t know what to do because if she reacts in a bad way then that may be damaging as well… see my dilemma?

What I would need is a hug or holding hands or patting my back, I don’t care but she shouldn’t just sit there. Yet what if she would just be sitting there if I didn’t tell her that I need her to be closer?
Then I’ll worry that she only does it for me and she feels uncomfortable and maybe she doesn’t really like me and rolls her eyes while comforting me and that would really stress me out further.

Any ideas what to do?

[WePow]

It is very healthy to ask for what we need.
What I am learning through my own CBT therapy is that even if we have to ask a person for exactly what we need, for example "come over to my chair and just check on me instead of being so far away", we do need to remember a few important things.

People can't read our minds - any more than we can read theirs.
Some people NEED and WANT a T who will come closer to them. Other people NEED and WANT a T who will stay in their chair and not try to approach them. Even the most skilled therapist will lean on the side of giving a client personal space. That does NOT mean that they don't WANT to come right over to us. In fact, I think many Ts actually sit there watching us and secretly think to themselves "I wish you would just ask me to come over there to you !!!" They want us to heal and they want to do whatever they can do to help us heal.

So give your T the benifit of the doubt in these situations.
A big (HUGE) part of healing is leaning that it is OK to ask for our NEEDS to be addressed. It doesn't mean we always get exactly what we want. But it is ok to say "I really need you to give me a hug right now!" If T doesn't hug, that is fine. But T should say "A part of my professional boundary is not giving hugs to clients. However, your feelings of needing a hug at this time are very valid and very real! It is healthy to want to reach out and connect with another human in this way. I am very honored that you asked me for a hug."

Bottom line is that it takes work to express those needs in a clear way and expose ourselves this way. I know it is terrifying at times! Esp when we are wounded inside. Just go slowly and be gentle with your inner child. And keep in mind that a T really can't read your mind :-)

[Perna]

I think, at this point, you should focus on just the words, the discussion of what she "should" do. It's no guarantee that she will/won't behave in a certain way at a certain time, it's just a discussion of how you would like her to behave. We don't always get what we want; we have to deal with that situation, also. I try to remember, "the map is not the territory". Discussing what you like or don't like is not what is/will happen/not happen. You have to experience what happens for real; crying in front of someone is still about you, experiencing pain, not about the other person, what the other person says or does, etc.

[Omers]

I would suggest asking your T to be genuine with you rather than getting into specifics. You could also talk about tough and personal space in general so that T would now your comfort level. Then you don't have to tell T what to do but there is less need for mind reading. I also talked to my T about how in the past people would ask me to tell them what I needed just so they could tell me "no". My T asked for a couple examples to get an idea of the kinds of things I might ask for. T then talked very specifically about her boundaries. Now I have a much better idea of what kinds of things I can ask for without being told no.

On the flip side I also work with a massage T who also does therapy. She has a very different take on things as well as different boundaries and personality. 98% of the time she can tell just what I need by watching my face and body... no words. If she "misses it" I am allowed to either use my words or take her hand (because some times I can't talk) and move her to where I need her. She even knows (although I don't think it is conscious) that I like it better and feel more comforted when she is to the right side of me than to the left!

Oh, and seeing as it is CBT you could also get some information out there by talking about it as a self care thing... "When I am upset I like to have people do this" or "I feel comforted when they are able to do that"... Then it gives her an idea of your comfort and what you need but it leaves it more up to her to be genuine in weather or not she offers it too you when the time comes.

[sailboat]

Originally Posted by WePow

So give your T the benifit of the doubt in these situations.
A big (HUGE) part of healing is leaning that it is OK to ask for our NEEDS to be addressed. It doesn't mean we always get exactly what we want.

Thank you so much for your reply! I know she can't read my mind and I'm not expecting her to do so, it's just that I don't feel comfortable telling her what I need because I would never believe that she wanted to give me a hug if she gave me one if I told her beforehand. That's the problem.
Of course, if she doesn't give me one if I ask her to, then that's bad as well but it's really more about my mistrust in her action when I ask her for it.

Originally Posted by Perna

I think, at this point, you should focus on just the words, the discussion of what she "should" do.

That's a good idea. Do you think I could say "it's okay to hug me."? Although she probably doesn't want to hug me... But that way I am not telling her what to do and still tell her what my boundaries are.

Originally Posted by Omers

You could also talk about tough and personal space in general so that T would now your comfort level. Then you don't have to tell T what to do but there is less need for mind reading.

Wow, your massage T sounds wonderful! Such intuitive people amaze me.
Anyway, that sounds good. I like that idea. Telling her without really asking her to react that certain way.
Did she just tell you about her boundaries or did you ask specifically? Because mine never mentioned any boundaries whatsoever.

Thank you!

[REEG]

Sailboat- First off, welcome and thanks for posting! It's clear you are really struggling. Your post got me thinking, because this was a HUGE issue for me with past T's, but not so much with this one. The difference I think is that this time around I am able to ask for what I need in small bits, and see that as a process. It started out from day one when I asked T to use my nickname, rather than my full name. And really, what I often think of as the "small stuff" is a big deal. Sometimes it's easier to work with disclosures or requests that are less emotionally loaded - it can give you practice and a base to build on for the bigger stuff. Keep us posted

[sailboat]

Originally Posted by REEG

Sometimes it's easier to work with disclosures or requests that are less emotionally loaded - it can give you practice and a base to build on for the bigger stuff. Keep us posted

Hello! Sorry I haven't replied earlier, I had to wait to get my 5 replies approved and I didn't want to continue before that happened. I'm really impatient
I have so many (trust) issues with my T, so asking for a somehing that is definitely emotional but can hardly said 'no' to is probably easier.
Like: "I don't feel safe with you. I need you to help me more!" is that something I could say? Or is it rude?
When I want to talk about my needs I always fear I'm crossing a line, maybe she tries hard already to gain my trust and to make me feel safe. And I'm just that bi*** who wants more, more, more
Wow, before starting therapy I'd never have thought that any of this would play any role in the progress.
Thank you, your reply made me think, that's good!
And I'll definitely keep you posted

[sugahorse1]

I also battle to ask for what I need. But in your situation, I really think it's important to speak to your T. T's are very aware of personal space.
I had a situation in my last session where I was the most emotional I've ever been. I could physically feel my emotions. We sat in silence and T asked me what I needed then. That she was worried about me.
I had no answer. But I would have really liked her to come across and hug me. I just wasn't strong (Maybe 'brave'?) enough to ask for it.

[sailboat]

Originally Posted by sugahorse

I had a situation in my last session where I was the most emotional I've ever been. I could physically feel my emotions. We sat in silence and T asked me what I needed then. That she was worried about me.
I had no answer.

I had a panic attack a few weeks ago during session. My T kept on talking. she thought I was "blocked". Wow. That did not help.
I actually think she might have given you a hug, if that is what would have helped and she asked out of worry then I don't think she would have said no.

Oh I'm not sure I will be able to ask this. I always gather up courage and as soon as I hear her voice or see her face I feel like a 3 year old kid with jelly legs. I think I have to do it indirectly by telling her what MY boundaries are and then let her act genuinely.

[sugahorse1]

Can you send her a mail or text and bring these things up in that medium?

[sailboat]

No, I think that would bother her. I only have her cell phone number and she uses that to cancel appt and so on, I don't think it's meant to be used as a communication tool for therapy.
I tried to write a letter. I've started about 4 times in the last couple of days and never know how to say it without hurting her feelings. So that letter has not gotten longer than 2-3 lines

[sugahorse1]

Keep trying to write the letter. Even if you give it to her at the end of the session, and have her read it once you are gone - it's a step forward

[Omers]

My T just told me but... we knew each other from a different context before therapy and all the T's around here talk... I had a very bad, unearned reputation. She knows I do not generalize boundaries, I have to learn them with each person individually. My mind just doesn't do the "All T's are lie this..." thing.

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by sailboat

Anyway, I have yet to cry in therapy or let loose in general, which I can’t do. My T has now mentioned my ‘needs’ several times and asked me what I expect of her or how she should react if I either get a panic attack or start crying or something similar.

Maybe it will be easier to know what you want from her and then tell her once you have experienced crying or letting loose in her presence. Do you think worrying about how she will react is holding you back from expressing your strongest emotions with her in therapy? You have said you want a hug if you cry, but you might feel differently if you actually cry with her and experience how she is with you. I think there is something to be said for spontaneity and seeing how the T reacts if you express yourself. A T has the skills of being with a client who is emotional, whether the client has instructed them how to react or not. Even if you do want a hug, you can also experience being sad with her without a hug. And maybe that would help you say that you want physical comfort, after you have experienced not getting physical comfort from her. You may find that how she reacts without touching you is comforting or just what you need at that moment.

I think she's asking a lot for you to know what you want when you cry when you haven't even cried with her yet. Would it help relieve your anxiety on this if you focus on letting yourself express your emotions with her rather than how she will react? I have had a situation with my T when I was so concerned with how he would respond that I could not tell him something, so I understand how that can affect the ability to open up.

What I would worry about is that if you asked her for physical touch to comfort you, that she would immediately say "no", as some Ts have a policy against physical touch. That would make me feel really bad if I asked for touch and my T said no. It might set me back in therapy for a while, so I would not directly ask for this so early (before I had even cried or let loose). But that could just be me. My T does not physically touch me to comfort me during a session, although we do share hugs sometimes at the close of a session. It hasn't occurred to me to ask him to touch me if I am sad. He really handles it so well without touch, and I am glad I have been able to experience his "non-touch" comfort and empathy. So you might just want to try expressing your sadness and let your T "show her stuff." Maybe it will be just what you need.

Originally Posted by Omers

My mind just doesn't do the "All T's are lie this..." thing.

That sounds sensible, as every T is different.

[mark366160]

I posted something similar to sailboat on the "fear of session" thread. I reached a point where I could not describe my feelings without stuttering constantly and sounding like a complete idiot (atleast in my own mind). Since I had called her outside of session to tell her I was having some sort of issue, rather than trying to go into that next session and describe it, I wrote it down and gave it to her at the beginning. While I was embarassed by what I wrote, I felt I had to get it out... and it would probably have taken 5 sessions to get it all out... so writing it down not only made it easier on me in terms of talking about it, but got it all out on the table much quicker. In my case, I don't know if saying all I said was necessarily a good thing, but atleast it got said.

While I can't speak to the touch aspects, if you have needs or things that you believe should be discussed but can't get them to come out of your mouth, write it down and give it to her. All you're doing is bottling your emotions up by keeping them to yourself... and this will help guide her with you...

[sailboat]

Originally Posted by sugahorse

Keep trying to write the letter. Even if you give it to her at the end of the session, and have her read it once you are gone - it's a step forward

Ok, I'll keep trying! Thank you

Originally Posted by Omers

My T just told me but... we knew each other from a different context before therapy and all the T's around here talk... I had a very bad, unearned reputation.

Wow, that would be my nightmare! Have Ts talk behind my back. But I do like that you don't generalize.
Of course each person is different but all Ts had to learn some reactions and do's/don't's so I suppose sometimes you can generalize.

Originally Posted by sunrise

Do you think worrying about how she will react is holding you back from expressing your strongest emotions with her in therapy?

Yes and no. There are a lot of other issues that keep me from showing real and raw emotions but worrying about her reaction definitely is one of them.
Although I did not start talking about my needs or how I want her to react, it was her who asked me what I want of her. She knows how I'm struggling with this so she was only trying to help.

Originally Posted by sunrise

That would make me feel really bad if I asked for touch and my T said no.

It would make me feel really bad, too.
I'm used to people ignoring my emotions and not comforting me or hugging me but just rolling their eyes at me.
Now if she told me beforehand that she doesn't hug in general than it would help as I would know, while crying, that she isn't rejecting my tears or minimalises my emotions but it's just not her thing.
Oh, why does this have to be so complicated, this therapy stuff
Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it!

[sunrise]

Originally Posted by sailboat

Now if she told me beforehand that she doesn't hug in general than it would help as I would know, while crying, that she isn't rejecting my tears or minimalises my emotions but it's just not her thing.

It sounds like one thing you need from her is more information on what she can offer you. You could ask her how she reacts when other clients cry and what she offers them. If she says it varies, you can ask for the range of what she offers. In this way, you can learn whether she ever provides physical comfort and avoid asking for it if she has a policy against giving it. Most Ts, I think, would be happy to tell a client how they behave when clients get sad, upset, angry, etc.

Good luck.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by sailboat

I'm used to people ignoring my emotions and not comforting me or hugging me but just rolling their eyes at me.

I think that this is important to talk about in therapy. This is the seed from which everything else has grown from.

[sailboat]

Originally Posted by sunrise

Most Ts, I think, would be happy to tell a client how they behave when clients get sad, upset, angry, etc.

Thanks, that is great advice! So I'll either tell her what's ok for *me* or let her tell me what she does generally.

Originally Posted by Sannah

I think that this is important to talk about in therapy. This is the seed from which everything else has grown from.

She knows about this. But I agree. I'm actually pretty sure she feels a bit uncomfortable about this- when I don't tell her what to do and she knows how I was let down. It's unfair, I gotta say something.

[Kacey2]

Originally Posted by Omers

My T just told me but... we knew each other from a different context before therapy and all the T's around here talk... I had a very bad, unearned reputation. She knows I do not generalize boundaries, I have to learn them with each person individually. My mind just doesn't do the "All T's are lie this..." thing.

Omers can you elaborate on this if you feel comfortable? I am really confused about what she said to you and how you know that the t's talk. Do you mean just in the specific clinic she works in? I have so many questions about this. Thanks

[Symbiosis]

I can relate, Sail. It's like if you script what she is supposed to do and say, how can it be coming from her? Maybe allow her a chance to do whatever she is going to do the first time you cry or have a panic attack. Maybe she'll surprise you and be better than you expected. If she falls short, like doesn't physically reach out, you could always clarify then. I know the touch business in T is all over the place from no way ever to frequent hugging.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by sailboat

I'm used to people ignoring my emotions and not comforting me or hugging me but just rolling their eyes at me.

Originally Posted by sailboat

She knows about this. But I agree. I'm actually pretty sure she feels a bit uncomfortable about this- when I don't tell her what to do and she knows how I was let down. It's unfair, I gotta say something.

THis needs to be discussed in how it affects you today. Talk about how it affects you today and tie it in to the past. Making these connections is how you heal. Your subconscious is already making the connections and this is why the past affects your present but when you discuss these connections it makes the subconscious conscious and this severes the connection and frees you up today from the past.

[sailboat]

Originally Posted by Symbiosis

Maybe allow her a chance to do whatever she is going to do the first time you cry or have a panic attack.

I wanted to tell her what is ok for me and leave her to decide. She told me to leave it to her. Ok. Good luck! so she follows your advice. Thanks btw!

Originally Posted by Sannah

THis needs to be discussed in how it affects you today.

Thank you, that is very wise. She knows already though so she should be able to do the right thing. I just hope she does.

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by sailboat

She knows already though so she should be able to do the right thing. I just hope she does.

But it is your therapy. Do you see yourself as having any role in therapy, that you can take the lead?

[sailboat]

Originally Posted by Sannah

But it is your therapy. Do you see yourself as having any role in therapy, that you can take the lead?

Usually yes. But I sometimes leave it to her. But if she wants to talk about something that I don't want to talk about then I tell her.