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  #26  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:01 PM
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rainbow8 rainbow8 is offline
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Peaches, I understand how you feel.
Thanks for this!
peaches100

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  #27  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Symbiosis View Post
That's very frustrating! I'm going through something so similar.

I want the issue to separate into two:

1) What T has done or is not doing that is exacerbating the situation
2) How my reaction amplifies #1; my part in the whole thing

But I want #1 addressed first! Like take some responsibility because I'm not the one that has disrupted our schedule and ANYONE would likely be upset to some degree. Isn't always about my issues.

You said she is good with validating your feelings---that will help, right? I'm afraid the more I admit my honest feelings, the more clinical/distant my T will become.

So will you be in contact with her between now and then? Or will you just wait until next session to cover it?


Symbiosis,

YES!! YES!! I don't want my t to assume that every strong feeling I have is an over-reaction/transference feeling related to my past! In many cases, it is, but not always!

Lately, my t has gotten into the mode of saying things like, "I know your'e upset, but it has nothing to do with me or what i'm doing. It's "old stuff.") It's not that she never takes responsibility for misunderstandings or hurt feelings on my part, but it seems like "old stuff" is her first reaction/response, unless i dispute it with her and point out that her words/actions (or lack thereof) have also contributed to my feeling hurt.

I've sent her one last email this morning. I said:

R,

On Wednesday, can we talk about the separation pain I get when I don’t have my sessions? I’m really struggling with it, and I would like it to be easier. I seem to need more emails lately, and I think it’s because I’ve been missing some sessions. I’m trying to hang onto our connection. I need the feeling that you are still here with me, even when we are not together as often.

I know that multiple emails are distasteful to you, and I feel bad about it. But i need some help with our connection lately. So can we please talk about this on my session? I don’t want to make you mad with my emailing. Is there another way you could work with me so I can keep feeling connected with you during these breaks?

The less frequent sessions is/has been a real test for me! I’m needing reassurance from you about our relationship, not just coping skills. I’m pretty sure I’ve been clear in letting you know this in my messages. But it feels like you’re choosing not to respond to my feelings about our relationship. I want to understand why.

Our communication has always been so good. But it feels like we’re not on the same page right now.

If you pick up this message while you’re out of the office, you don’t have to answer. I just keep needing to tell you how I feel. . . disconnected I guess.

I’ve been thinking how good our session was a couple of weeks ago, and that helps. I’ve been holding it together and D. says I’m making progress. But the more often I miss sessions, the more I am struggling with hanging onto our connection.

I know I have to get used to missing sessions, because one day I won’t have any sessions. But I can’t shake the feeling inside that our relationship is suffering because of it. I appreciate that you responded to my earlier email. But because I didn’t hear from you the sort of reassurance about our relationship that I needed to hear, it adds to my feeling that we’re losing what we have.

I hope we can talk about this soon.

T

She hasn't replied. If she replies at all before our next session, it will be next Monday when she comes back to the office. But I'm kind of expecting to have to wait until my session Wednesday.

There was one other time a few months ago when i felt like she was dismissing what i said about our relationship and distancing from me. At first, she denied that she was doing that. But later, she said something like "I realize i may have been doing that. I suppose that, like you, i don't like the feeling of being vulnerable either."

What do you think that means? Does it sound like she's trying to hold me at a distance so she doesn't care too much?
  #28  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:10 PM
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Maybe she thinks she's allowed me to get too attached, so she's trying to detach.
  #29  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Suratji View Post
Oh no, who would see a T that becomes more distant when we admit our honest feelings? Should your T even be in the profession?

I think a good t should always encourage the client to express their feelings honestly. If the t has trouble themselves coping with what the client says, that's the t's problem to manage their own emotions -- just as they expect us to manage our emotions when we get upset.
  #30  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treehouse View Post
(((((((((((peaches)))))))))))

My T takes a LOT - I mean A LOT - of breaks (although he hasn't recently...but I know they're coming this spring/summer). It really IS hard.

Our biggest rupture occurred around his breaks. I just kept pulling away and pulling away. It was hard to hold onto the connection, and t would SAY the connection was the same, but it didn't FEEL the same.

I'm aware of it now, and I really try not to pull away anymore. I do try to trust that everything is the same, because I know it IS. And I guess I do try to use a lot of different coping skills - reaching out to other people, reaching out on PC, staying busy, getting outside, writing long e-mails to T that I don't send, leaving a message for T if I need to just to tell him what's going on.

I SO understand needing the words of reassurance from T, though. Do you think that if you state clearly what you need, she will give it to you? Sometimes I have to practically give my T a script, but it's okay. I know he will only say things that are honest, and he will give me whatever I need, as long as I am clear about it.

I wonder if you can schedule some extra sessions the weeks before and after break? T and I usually try to do an extra session either before or after (or both) and it really helps.

I'm sorry it's so hard.



Hi Treehouse,

Like you, i used to pull away from my t whenever we had a rupture or she left town and i had to miss sessions. i didn't have any other way to cope then to numb out so i didn't miss her. over time, i've learned not to do that, i've learned to try to stay connected despite the problem/rupture that is happening. usually, it works out, my t shows concern about how i'm feeling and we talk it over and it's resolved.

But this time, it feels like I have told her very clearly how i feel and what i need, and instead of showing compassion and acknowledging the problem, she's dismissing my feelings about feeling disconnected and losing support, and just handing me a short clipped answer indicating that i just need to use my coping skills more. She told me recently she was busy and couldn't reply to everything i said in my messages. So i get the feeling that she's just tired of hearing what must sound like "the same old thing." So now she's going to reply with "the same old thing" also.



If i felt like she was truly hearing what i have to say in my heart, and she was responding to it by taking enough time to understand what i need, and then provide it, i probably wouldn't be saying the same thing over and over in emails, would I?
  #31  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:25 PM
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peaches100 peaches100 is offline
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Treehouse,

Thanks also for the tips on how you cope when your t is gone. I have found that I do best when i can keep myself very busy and not allow myself time to dwell on it. Otherwise, i seem to get more worked up and feel worse and worse.
  #32  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sannah View Post
Peaches, I really like how you are thinking about all of this. You are verbalizing it really well and understand what is going on with you.

I think that it is best to jump in with a person about any issue. Avoiding the issue because you want someone to progress past it doesn't work. You have to jump into with them so that it can be explored. Exploring it is the only way to move past it.

Do you think that you need to ask her if she is uncomfortable with the topic and if she is avoiding it?


Sannah,

I have a strong feeling she is avoiding it. But i don't know why. I've already let her know that i've noticed she's avoided replying to what i've said about our relationship, but her response was that she doesn't have time to reply to everything i say in my emails, so she just replied to part of it because she was busy.

But a couple of days later, when i sent another email, expressing my same concerns/fears about the relationship, she avoided responding to the relational aspect of it again. In the first email, she directed me straight away to my coping skills. In the second email, she responded again with a coping skills reminder, and then an misapplication/misunderstanding of what i'd said.

Something is wrong. It could be as minor as that she is very busy and just doesn't want to/can't take the time to reply as she should. Or as serious as that she's decided I'm too attached and is trying to downplay my attachment and our relationship by ignoring my feelings about it and hoping I'll detach some as well.
Thanks for this!
Suratji
  #33  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:36 PM
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Originally Posted by with or without you View Post
Thanks. I just try to keep myself busy and remember that T is allowed to have a life of her own....LOL

Also, I went through a period of intense attachment to T a few months ago (it was when I finally admitted I was struggling with it). Talking about it with her made me settle down a little bit. Also, we have pretty much no contact in between sessions which is a good thing for me too.

Withorwithout you,

I've tried to cut down or stop emailing her because i know that when i don't get the kind of response from her that i need, it sometimes feels even worse than the separation pain between sessions feels. But i haven't been able to stop emailing. I'm thinking now that i'm going to have to force myself because i think it's gotten to the point where my t just doesn't take my emails seriously anymore. . .i'm the little boy who cried Wolf! I think my emails have lost their value. it's true that i've overdone emails. i don't blame my t if she's sick of hearing from me. i'm sick of reading my own words. It's all so repetitious and it feels like it's starting not to mean anything but mumbo jumbo, blah blah blah.
Thanks for this!
Suratji
  #34  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:40 PM
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Peaches, my heart goes out to you. Ah, the agony - we could do without it couldn't we? Depending on T, waiting for T, needing T - man, who needs that? I wish I had some helpful suggestions but all I can do is feel your pain because I've felt it too.
  #35  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by sunrise View Post
(((Peaches))) It does sound like you and your T are misattuned on this topic. Advice on coping is not what you are looking for when you email T. But yet she gives it. I think it is probably deliberate on her part. I think she knows that is not the response you hope for. Her words are distancing. Maybe she thinks adding to the distance with words like these will help you cope in her absence? Maybe she is trying to prepare you for yet more schedule disruptions, absences, and the future when she is retired? I think it is worth talking to her about and just asking, "why do you respond that way?" It might be helpful to know what her intent is.

Peaches, has your T always responded in this way to your emails? I don't remember your writing about this before. I think I remember there have been times when you wrote her and she didn't respond at all (or took a long time), and you became upset. I wonder if this is her new MI--she does respond but doesn't make it comforting or satisfying. Like she doesn't want to give you "too much"?

These sound like very "canned" responses. There is little of herself in these sentences. I wonder if they are stock phrases she has stored on her computer for easy cut and paste to client emails? Maybe she thinks you would rather receive these than nothing? She is trying to meet your needs to receive emails from her within the confines of what she has time, energy, and desire to provide outside of session?

It sounds like a difficult situation, peaches. I would not like getting emails like that from my T. I would rather receive no emails than get misattuned ones. (Maybe she is nudging you toward that resolution?)

Hi Sunrise,

I've been thinking alot about what you said. I know my t has never really liked email. She has let me do it, but has said that sometimes she might not be able to reply as i'd like her to. This is one of those times. Either she is just too busy, or she is trying to discourage the relationship/attachment. Either one could be true. I guess i will not know her motive unless she chooses to tell me.

I have noticed, though, that the times when she doesn't respond, or not as i'd hoped, it is almost always in response to an email i've sent her that is in some way about my feelings for her, my attachment, or my fear of losing her, or even sometimes if i've said how much i appreciate her, or have felt close to her. Some months back, i pointed out how she seems to ignore those types of emails. At first she denied it. Then later, she told me it could be true, and that she doesn't like to feel vulnerable herself. I am not sure what she means.
  #36  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:44 PM
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Originally Posted by rainbow8 View Post
Peaches, I understand how you feel.

Thanks, Rainbow! Hugs to you also!
  #37  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by peaches100 View Post
Withorwithout you,

I've tried to cut down or stop emailing her because i know that when i don't get the kind of response from her that i need, it sometimes feels even worse than the separation pain between sessions feels. But i haven't been able to stop emailing. I'm thinking now that i'm going to have to force myself because i think it's gotten to the point where my t just doesn't take my emails seriously anymore. . .i'm the little boy who cried Wolf! I think my emails have lost their value. it's true that i've overdone emails. i don't blame my t if she's sick of hearing from me. i'm sick of reading my own words. It's all so repetitious and it feels like it's starting not to mean anything but mumbo jumbo, blah blah blah.
We have never done e-mails and I've never asked for it either. The only way to get in touch with her is to leave a message on her voicemail. So if there's something I really need to say, I have to keep it to a 2-minute monologue. Haha. However, unlike most of you in here (I suspect anyway) I have debilitating problems with shyness, social anxiety, and performance, so it's good for me that I am forced to say stuff out loud.
Thanks for this!
Liam Grey
  #38  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:50 PM
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Peaches, I wonder if your T is responding to emails the way mine does now. She told me she was only going to email me once each week, and it would be brief. She usually responds to something positive that I wrote, or says something positive. She doesn't usually reply to my feelings about her or our relationship. She says she can't do therapy via email.

I think that your T is trying to reinforce your coping skills, and is doing it deliberately but I think she should be more direct and tell you this is what she's doing. She feels it's in your best interests not to respond to every concern you have about your relationship. It's also true that she probably doesn't have time to do that, and that it's always better to discuss your relationship face to face.

I don't think she has "decided that you're too attached" and is now punishing you, as it seems to me that's what you think. She's doing it out of concern for you, as a way of weaning you away from the attachment to her. I wouldn't call it "ignoring your feelings" about it but rather she is focusing on how you can cope when she's not there. She's always available and willing to discuss your feelings about her when you're in session, isn't she? I think she wants to be there for you but help you to become independent by focusing on the positive. She's not trying to hurt you!

But....I know how hurt I was when my T didn't comment in the email about my feelings for her. I really felt she didn't care about me. We had to talk about it and compromise about how I could still email her and get a response that satisfied me. I think you need to have an honest discussion about what your T is trying to do with the emails to you. I don't believe she is "just busy" but that she's doing what she thinks is best for you. I know how hard this is for you, but you and your T have an excellent relationship and I know you can work this out.
  #39  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 12:56 PM
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I'm thinking about not emailing her anymore.

this thing right now makes me feel like i don't have any pride.

like i am begging for her to care about it and/or show it.

if i have to beg for what i need, i can't feel good even if i get it. By then it feels forced, like i made them give it to me.

starting today, i'm going to try to way reduce what i expect from or want from t. It's better not to want -- need -- or expect than to need something and not get it. . .or get it after you forced it.

you know, in therapy we've been talking about the past in my childhood when i needed my mom and she wasn't there for me, or when i feared that she had died. My t shouldn't be surprised that between the missed sessions, and what we're working on in therapy, that i might be having abandonment triggers. why can't she acknowledge that? why does she have to become the clinical instructor rather than the feeling therapist?
  #40  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 01:09 PM
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I can feel your pain, Peaches. Now you sound angry with your T and your Mom too. It's disappointing when our Ts can't really, really be our Moms and do it over the way we wanted it the first time, isn't it?

I think there can be a middle ground and you have to talk about this at your next session. I believe that IN your session, your T will acknowledge your abandonment fears. It needs discussing; emails aren't good for that kind of discussion.

I'm sorry you're suffering so much right now.
  #41  
Old Mar 24, 2011, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by peaches100 View Post
Is there another way you could work with me so I can keep feeling connected with you during these breaks?

But it feels like you’re choosing not to respond to my feelings about our relationship. I want to understand why.
Peaches, I think these are really good questions you have posed to your T. The first one shows you realize email isn't working and are proactively seeking another solution. I think a T would be impressed with this from a client. You are actively problem-solving and seeking her assistance in a non-judgmental way. I hope you will have a good discussion around this at your next session and together find a solution.

Quote:
Originally Posted by peaches100
But later, she said something like "I realize i may have been doing that. I suppose that, like you, i don't like the feeling of being vulnerable either."
This is an interesting comment from her. To me, it could mean a couple of different things. It might mean that she doesn't like your feeling of being vulnerable. It makes her uncomfortable to have a client be so vulnerable with her. This would help explain why she seems to be trying to increase the distance between you with her emails. Or it could mean she is feeling that she is too attached to you and that makes her feel vulnerable. Maybe your requests for reassurance, etc., make her feel bad because she cares so much about you, and thinks maybe she shouldn't have fostered your deep attachment to her, because she sees it is hurting you now. Do you think you might ask her what she meant by her comment? It might give you both a lot of information about your relationship.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Peaches100
I'm thinking about not emailing her anymore
That would "solve" the problem of your being hurt by her emails, but it wouldn't solve the problem of your feelings of being disconnected. So I hope, whether you abandon emailing or not, you will still brainstorm with her on different ways you can keep the connection going when she is away. It seems clear you need something. I don't think keeping busy helps one feel connected, it just helps us not think about it (which is a coping skill and certainly has value). I wonder if when your T keeps suggesting in her emails that you use coping skills, she is trying to turn you away from the goal of feeling connected in her absence? Maybe she doesn't consider that to be necessary or important? Do therapists in general consider that important? Maybe to them it's enough if the client is connected in session, and outside of session, it is not cause for concern?

Good luck, peaches.
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  #42  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 08:22 AM
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I wasn't expecting to get a reply from my t, since she is out of the office this week, but she did respond to my latest email.

She said:

T:
I think there's a part of you--the self and maybe others, who know our relationship is solid, even when you miss sessions. There is another part that feels stuck in the past with worries about the connection when we are not physically present together. I know this and have known it for a long time. Please understand that I care about your feelings associated with connection and separations. Of course we will continue to address this as the most important part of our work together. Relationship is where the work is at.
Coping skills are what I emphasize so that you have ways to manage feelings about the separations. They aren't the only focus of the work.
Please try to keep all of this in perspective.
See you soon
R

I feel some relief now from the anguish i have been feeling the past couple of days. sometimes i just need to know t is there, and that she hears me and cares.

  #43  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by with or without you View Post
We have never done e-mails and I've never asked for it either. The only way to get in touch with her is to leave a message on her voicemail. So if there's something I really need to say, I have to keep it to a 2-minute monologue. Haha. However, unlike most of you in here (I suspect anyway) I have debilitating problems with shyness, social anxiety, and performance, so it's good for me that I am forced to say stuff out loud.

Withorwithout you,

I'm sorry to hear you struggle with shyness and social anxiety! That must be really hard to deal with. I can see why it would help you to have to express your feelings out loud. It takes bravery to do that!

I don't consider myself shy, but i am inhibited. It is very, very hard for me to talk to my t in person about how i feel about the t relationship. I usually always do it in email. I use email also when i feel hurt about something, instead of telling her in person when it happens. I guess in some ways - i hide behind email. It would probably benefit me if i jotted notes down about how i feel between sessions, then take them in and talk to her one-on-one about it. But that feels SOOOOO SCARY!! With email, it sort of introduces the idea, then my t can bring it up in session. Passive, i know. . .
  #44  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 09:05 AM
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Peaches, I liked your T's email. I'm glad she took the time to address your concerns and that you feel better.
  #45  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by rainbow8 View Post
Peaches, I wonder if your T is responding to emails the way mine does now. She told me she was only going to email me once each week, and it would be brief. She usually responds to something positive that I wrote, or says something positive. She doesn't usually reply to my feelings about her or our relationship. She says she can't do therapy via email.

I think that your T is trying to reinforce your coping skills, and is doing it deliberately but I think she should be more direct and tell you this is what she's doing. She feels it's in your best interests not to respond to every concern you have about your relationship. It's also true that she probably doesn't have time to do that, and that it's always better to discuss your relationship face to face.

I don't think she has "decided that you're too attached" and is now punishing you, as it seems to me that's what you think. She's doing it out of concern for you, as a way of weaning you away from the attachment to her. I wouldn't call it "ignoring your feelings" about it but rather she is focusing on how you can cope when she's not there. She's always available and willing to discuss your feelings about her when you're in session, isn't she? I think she wants to be there for you but help you to become independent by focusing on the positive. She's not trying to hurt you!

But....I know how hurt I was when my T didn't comment in the email about my feelings for her. I really felt she didn't care about me. We had to talk about it and compromise about how I could still email her and get a response that satisfied me. I think you need to have an honest discussion about what your T is trying to do with the emails to you. I don't believe she is "just busy" but that she's doing what she thinks is best for you. I know how hard this is for you, but you and your T have an excellent relationship and I know you can work this out.


Hi Rainbow,

You know me really well, so anything you say i should think seriously about. I think you're right, that my t is trying to discourage so much email communication. i do email too much -- sometimes 2 or 3 times per week. In the past, we've talked about setting a limit at 1 per week, which i could never seem to stick to. But maybe the problem is that i just need to exercise better self-control when i get the urge to email. sometimes, if i can get past that urgent feeling that i need to resolve an issue or get a question answered NOW -- if i can move through that mindset, then i settle down and realize i can wait until later to talk to my t. But getting myself through that stage, when something has triggered me, is difficult for me. If i don't email t to resolve a misunderstanding, then i often will ruminate about it all week until i see her and can talk about it. and that is torture!

You are right also that my t is busy. She told me a few months ago that she's busier at work than usual, and her new supervisor expects more documentation, etc. So i think, at times, even though she cares about me, my emails are inconvenient. And if they seem repetitive, then at times, she probably gives in to the temptation to just shoot me off a canned reply, at least so I know she got my message. It does hurt my feelings. But i can kind of see why it happens sometimes.

As far as weaning me away from the attachment with her, and the focus on coping skills. . .there may be some truth to that as well. She told me recently that we are in the "middle" stage of therapy. I'm pretty sure a part of that involves facing my pain and grieving for lost opportunities in childhood, connected with my relationship with my parents. My t may want to act nurturingly at times with me, but she probably doesn't want it to become a replacement for facing my pain and loss. That's my guess anyway. But it's very hard trying to face all this attachment, separation, and loss stuff!! They are my issues from my childhood with my parents, and they have become the same issues with my t.

It hurts to know i have a part of me that is this needy and clingy and scared! I don't want to face it. I hate the scary feelings and emotions that that part of me carries. I think i get mad at my t because when she takes time off, it sparks my separation fears. It makes all those scary awful feelings come up that i also used to feel with my mom when she went away on business trips. I get mad at my t because it feels like she caused it -- but she's only the reminder of it.

I'm going to really try from now on to limit my email to my t. Maybe i have progressed far enough now that with hard work, i can keep to the 1-email-per-week limit. I would sooooooo much rather limit myself, rather than have t put a limit on me. That would feel bad to me.
  #46  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 09:20 AM
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How would you feel if you allow yourself to email as much as you want to, but don't expect replies, like my arrangement with my T? It helps to know that she reads my emails, but I know that she will only reply once during the week. Would that be too hard for you? Or is it the response from your T that you need?
  #47  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 12:59 PM
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I like your T's response too. I hope that you can face your feelings about your mom in session soon...........
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  #48  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 01:05 PM
Liam Grey Liam Grey is offline
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Originally Posted by with or without you View Post
unlike most of you in here (I suspect anyway) I have debilitating problems with shyness, social anxiety, and performanceloud.
You are not alone .
Thanks for this!
with or without you
  #49  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 01:10 PM
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with or without you with or without you is offline
Poohbah
 
Member Since: Nov 2010
Location: US
Posts: 1,273
Quote:
Originally Posted by peaches100 View Post
Withorwithout you,

I'm sorry to hear you struggle with shyness and social anxiety! That must be really hard to deal with. I can see why it would help you to have to express your feelings out loud. It takes bravery to do that!

I don't consider myself shy, but i am inhibited. It is very, very hard for me to talk to my t in person about how i feel about the t relationship. I usually always do it in email. I use email also when i feel hurt about something, instead of telling her in person when it happens. I guess in some ways - i hide behind email. It would probably benefit me if i jotted notes down about how i feel between sessions, then take them in and talk to her one-on-one about it. But that feels SOOOOO SCARY!! With email, it sort of introduces the idea, then my t can bring it up in session. Passive, i know. . .
Thanks. It's just awful sometimes. I left a message for T a few weeks ago. I had just found out that a great aunt of mine died suddenly. T knows that I have had to deal with a ton of deaths since '02 when my dad died. When T called back, she said "You said 'they're all dying on me' in your message." I did not remember saying that at all! So T gets a glimpse of me "right in the moment." It wouldn't carry the same weight if it were in writing, you know?
  #50  
Old Mar 25, 2011, 03:21 PM
Symbiosis Symbiosis is offline
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Member Since: Jul 2010
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by peaches100 View Post
I wasn't expecting to get a reply from my t, since she is out of the office this week, but she did respond to my latest email.
Wow, Peaches, that's great! Better than expected. I'm very happy for you.

I think the fact that she displayed some genuine concern and effort will probably make you feel like you don't need to email. You know, like, you don't have to even necessarily limit yourself-it'll happen naturally-because you'll know you guys are cool.

My T situation miraculously got itself worked out, too. We must be in synch!
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