at least I finally cried

zoo:

You're definetly not alone zoo.

Good idea to stop texting or calling for awhile. You need to get your emotions under control so you can make smart, educated, rational decisions.

(((zoo)))

Hey Zoo,

I am really glad she called and actually glad she admitted that she has a part to play in this. She cannot say, "call when you want" and then when you do "your draining me"! I think she initially thought she was doing the right thing trying to be there for you and be a great person etc but then realised that actually she can't cope with being this much to probably quite a few people and she realises now that she has set the boundaries between her and probably most of her clients wrong.

If you do go back to her I think you maybe need to prepare for her to actually change the boundaries and maybe tell you only to ring when you really need to or something. It's going to be very hard to change the boundaries without it coming across as rejection for you I think.

As lastyearisblank said what really struck me in your inital post was also the comment she made of "i've never experienced anything like this in all my years of practice" (maybe not exact words) because when I imagined what that would feel like to have that said to you by your T I just wanted to cry for you and hug you. If it was me that comment would make me feel like the worst person in the world, even if she didnt mean to!

I think she has a LOT to apologise for, no matter how often you rang or contacted her! Her treatment of you has been wrong!! I dread to think what else she has said to you!

huge huggles!!

Oh wow. I'm getting a sense now of the toll this is taking on me emotionally. If it was just this then maybe, maybe I could keep swimming and keep my head above water. But as soon as another stressor comes up, I fall apart. No resources left to deal with anything. At all.

yes, this all by itself is so huge, I can understand why it is hard to deal with other stressors as they come up, which is inevitable......it would be nice to feel more supported and cared for in your T relationship, wouldn't it? I want for you to have that.....
And yet, as I learned with my rupture with T recently, which was nearly more than I could handle by itself never mind having 4 kids plus other things......somehow I have to dig and dig deep to find that there are more resources within, learn to rely more on the healthy coping skills I do have, rely on the healthy support system I do have, and understand that sometimes life is like that - a relationship is difficult and painful and yet there are other things that have to be dealt with in the midst of heartbreak because life keeps happening!
I hope you can dig deep and find more strength to keep going on, moment by moment, day by day, that you can rely more on your healthy coping skills and support system, and that the relationship with T is reparable and can become more supportive....
Many big hugs to you!

(((( zoo )))) I've been having trouble with my internet connection today and just now got online....You've been on my mind quite a bit, and I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope you will be able to address your feelings and concerns with T. This is HER issue as much as it is yours, and I hope you will find the strength to set some boundaries with HER - that she cannot tell you to call when you want or need to, and then throw it back in your face when you do just that. She cannot vent her frustrations out on YOU. She needs to deal with her stuff elsewhere. AAARGH. I am so angry at her....Know that you are cared for here, zoo. And I know your T cares about you too, even if she's being a butt at the moment....

Zoo,
I am just catching up now. I am so sorry that you had this experience. I know it can be heartbreaking to have these ruptures with t. I am glad that you put that phone app on because I totally get the urge and impulsivity that goes with calling t. You will preserve your self respect with doing that.

I know that your t cares very much about you and like others say she is first and foremost a human and then your therapist. Now that does not take the sting out of this by any means or the betrayal! I just want you to tell yourself that your t does care even though it doesn't feel that way now.

This something that both of you can grow with on the limit setting. Her for setting and enforcing them and you for learning to know when to find other ways of coping so not to burn her out. I know this is hard because I experience it myself.

I don't want to ramble on and on, I just wanted to say that I am thinking of you and hope you are coping in a safe way.

it may not seem like much of a resource, but we're here for you, Zoo, we care about you.

Left two messages for T. I almost think at this point I'm unable to stop pushing until I push her all the way, past the breaking point. I can see me doing it but I can't stop.

sorry to hear you are in such a rough spot. what are you planning to do if you aren't able to get a call back?

Zoo

Do you think on some unconscious level your testing her to see if she will leave you or maybe wanting her to make the choice for you?

do you want to say what the messages were about?

Would it be possible that when you feel like contacting her that you ring a helpline instead?

I'm worried that by not being able to step back from her for a day or two you will get hurt

I'm worried about that, too. I really am. and I've reached the point of complete skills break down. Yes I'm sure part of me wants to push her to end it so I can say she did it. And part of me wants to make her uncomfortable because I am so uncomfortable right now and I feel like it's her fault. And part of me hopes that she will be the t I want to believe she is, and give me a way to feel better about this.

I'm not really sure what I said in my messages. That I wasn't home because I don't feel like I can be safe at home alone right now. That my son is angry and saying hurtful things and it's hard to not take it to heart because it just feels like more proof that I am a horrible, awful person. That I know she doesn't want to talk about this on the phone but making me wait until next week feels cruel and I hope that she can help me and I hope that she WILL help me. And that I would really appreciate a call back.

I don't know if she will call and I don't know how I will feel if she does or if she doesn't.

i know this may be hard to hear but it seems to me that this is some sort of self fulfilling prof icy if you keep calling,texting,leaving VM's.she probably will burn out.is this what you want is this your goal.you need to give her a break she is human.i so get this out of control feeling.maybe you could try using a hot line or something like that just to give T a little time to recoup.i hope you can have a piecefull night and maybe some rest.

I KNOW I am pushing too much, but I don't know how to stop. Here is part of it: she said I was damaging the relationship when I was just doing what she told me it was OK to do. So, why should I worry now about what is too much for her? also there is a sort of frantic feeling that it can't end like this, at the same time that I feel if it IS going to end now, go out in a blaze of glory.

Zoo- I sent you a pm. Can you check it please?

You posted this earlier:

I'm confused as to why this didn't calm you down for long and allow you to have some hope for the repair of the relationship. Maybe it's because you are left feeling like you do not really know what is ok or not ok? You don't know where exactly the line is and you feel unsafe and out of control? Boundaries help us to feel safe and in control of ourselves. She is definitely sending mixed messages! Why on earth would she say that you can still call if your calling is what is damaging the relationship? I would think she would redefine her limits so that you KNOW where they are at! I think your T needs more training in DBT so she can know how to treat BPD. I can hardly believe she is a DBT therapist. DBT is supposed to prevent this sort of break in the therapeutic relationship through support for the therapists. She should be attending weekly therapist consultation group and getting support and feedback. Your situation is all too common with BPD. I went through the exact thing and have been in that state of desperation. The thing that saved the relationship was my T getting involved in DBT and requiring me to join a DBT group. I just don't get your T at all. DBT is supposed to prevent this scenario from happening!

Def need clear boundaries to feel safe. Just completely out of control, it feels like me pre-dbt. Where did everything I've learned go, and how?

My T does have a lot of DBT training, owns the only DBT practice in a 3 or 4 county area, and has been doing it for several years. I don't know how this happened. I know she has supervision, and weekly consultation.

I keep forgetting to clarify this part: she said the problem wasn't me calling, it was me calling for reassurance. Calling for coaching is ok, calling for reassurance is not, I guess. She never told me that, she expressly told me so many, many times to not worry about whether I should call her, to just call. So I did. And not a lot. I didn't call her for reassurance a LOT. Sometimes weekly, sometimes monthly, sometimes not for several weeks.

anyway. It's a mess and getting messier and there isn't much I can do at this point. I am not able to use my DBT skills, so I am using whatever coping I can including misusing my prescription drugs and cutting. I went to the hardware store and got a new pack of razor blades. I can and will do whatever it takes to not feel like this any more. And the kicker is that cutting WORKS. It really does. I feel calmer and more able to cope with day to day things like making dinner and going to my daughter's school concert. When it wears off, I will cut again. Maybe at some point I will have had enough peace that I can start to use my DBT skills again. I hope so.

she called me, and I told her I was afraid to talk to her. The first thing she said was she's not going anywhere and she's not quitting on me and she's not firing me. But then it got bad. Every time I would try to talk she said "I can't do this with you on the phone" and I got frustrated and said "I can't tell you how I feel You said it's ok to call you but I can't because I don't know what's ok to say or not say" and she just kept saying she wouldn't do it with me and then she hung up on me.

I am done. Done. Done. So ****ing done.

and even as I type that, inside me is a little voice that says we need T. Please don't leave us, T.

I am so ****ed up.

Zoo, can you define your own boundaries right now? You can create them yourself and don't need t to do it right now. I know you are choosing to self harm/self medicate, but they only work at a high cost to your well being. Are you sure that you are not doing that to punish her?

I am probably doing it to punish her, partly. And partly because it IS effective, in the short run. And the short run, the next 2 minutes, is about as far ahead as I can see right now.

I was so afraid to talk to her, and I made myself do it, and it was worse than I could have imagined.

(((((((((((((((Zoo))))))))))))))))))) wow. This is so hard for you! I am so sorry.

Can you do the DEAR MAN for this situation? I know you did that before and I thought you said it helped you out. ?

have you tried ice? Get a few ice cubes and hold them in your hand. If you still feel out of control, try sticking your face in a bowl of ice water. I have done that when I have become hysterically upset. It's one of the things my t has coached me to do over the phone.

Do you have any funny movies that you could watch? Do you have any funny TV shows that you can watch to get your mind into a different place for awhile? Sometimes I will go to that site damnyouautocorrect.com and read...those things make me laugh. I know you probably cant imagine laughing right now, but it really can help you escape the misery, if only for a brief time.

Hey Zoo,

we know your going through a lot of pain right now, many of us know what it's also like to feel the frantic desperation. But you need to try and breathe for a second, step back from the situation and maybe think what advice you would give someone else if they were in your position.

Your therapist obviously cares for you a lot. The fact she rang back and tried to let you know that she was still there for you, not going to quit on you etc is all extremely positive. I know things havent been good with her lately but the fact she said those things shows that she is trying to help.

Imagine for a second that one of your children rang you in desperation, telling you something so important to them, they were in real trouble etc...would you not want to help them face to face....this is partly were I think your therapist is coming from...the phone contact at the moment isnt healthy ( i know you already know that) and thats why she was probably right to say she didnt want to talk about things on the phone...but i do understand how hurtful it must have felt when she hung up.

I have been a self harmer, I rarely do it now but cutting yourself doesn't punish her, it wont make her want to rescue you any more than she does already, it just hurts you more. You say you dont have a choice but you do.......stop the crash and burn from happening.... I know you can do it

If you need immediate help go to a walk in centre, your mental health centre if your resgistered, maybe A&E...talk to someone hun

I have to take my daughter to a school concert in 10 minutes. I just now managed to quit crying. I scared my kids, I know they thought I was going to have a complete break down. I'm glad they can see me functioning through that and calming down.

I cannot imagine going to see T next week, and I cannot imagine never seeing her again. I do not want it to end this way, and I'm afraid to let her hurt me any more.

i feel sad this is the rout you decided to take i hope you keep youself safe