Expressions of Affection & the "Clinical Response"

scorpiosis37 · Nov 30, 2011, 12:41 AM

Peaches

You are not overreacting at all. Your T's response DOES seem rather cold and clinical. I am by no means suggesting that your T is cold or that she does not care deeply about you-- merely that her response (which is likely the result of her training) seems ill-suited for the situation. However, as others have suggested, her response is fairly typical. So many Ts resort to "by the book" clinical responses when their clients say they love or care for them. I think this rather cool approach is meant to dissuade the client from misinterpreting a caring response as evidence that they have more than a professional relationship with T (i.e. dissuade romantic feelings, obsessive feelings, thinking of T as a "friend," etc). However, for someone to say "I love you" and not hear something supportive-- or at least acknowledging-- back is quite unnatural and cold. Yes, of course, you can pay attention to how your Ts response has made you feel and learn from those feelings. You can also learn that being hit by a bat hurts and, next time, you should duck before the bat hits you (or, better yet, get the heck away from the person holding the bat). Just because you can learn from something doesn't mean that you should have to. This is, of course, my opinion and others may disagree. However, I strongly believe that the "cold and clinical" approach to therapy does not work well for most people, particularly for those who did not experience secure attachments growing up. Learning that it is SAFE to trust T and to share your feelings with T is crucial. often, therapy is the place where clients "test" what feels safe-- if it does not feel safe in therapy, it certainly isn't going to feel safe in RL. So, if a T ignores or rejects a client's expression of how they feel, what message is that sending the client? I think that a T should really use their "human" judgment in responding to these situations, rather than act like robots reading from a therapy manual. For instance, it may not be true or appropriate for a T to say "I love you, too" back to the client. However, I think it would be highly appropriate for a T to say "Thank-you for sharing your feelings. I think it's great that you can be honest and expressive with me. I care for you, too, and enjoy working with you. I think we have a strong T-client relationship." I think it's actually crucial that a T acknowledge and accept a client's loving feelings towards them-- otherwise the T is merely adding to the shame, rejection, and isolation that many clients have experienced their whole lives (thus, why they are in therapy). If a T simply shows a little acceptance, compassion and caring, clients who have been hurt a lot throughout their lives may just learn to open up, trust, and become better able to build meaningful relationships in RL.

As for my own experience with my T, I would say she falls somewhere in between your T's response, Peaches, and what I have described as an "ideal" response. Awhile back, I told my T that my dad was questioning the therapy process and my relationship with my T. He said, half-jokingly, "maybe your T just acts like she likes you." I told my T that my dad's comment hurt my feelings because it invalidates my relationship with her. Then, I told her that loved her, I think we have a great T-client relationship, and I'm very appreciative of everything she's done for me in therapy. In response, my T began talking about my relationship with my dad, without ever addressing my relationship with her. That left me a little bit hurt and unsure of how my T felt about me and about what I said. So, the next session, I gave her a note telling her how I felt, and asking her if we could talk about it. She immediately said she didn't refute my dad's comment that "maybe T just acts like she likes you" because she thought it was obvious to me that she DOES like me; she didn't think she had to reassure me. Then, she said she "loves working with me" and thinks she and I are a "really good fit." I was glad to hear her say those things, but a part of me still wishes she would have said them without my prompting her-- and a part of me still wishes she had said "I care about you." I wanted her to acknowledge that, within our professional relationship, there is still an element of human caring. I wanted her to acknowledge that she feels something too (maybe not love, but some form of caring or affection). I know that may be asking a lot but, if I'm being honest, that's what I wanted to hear. I think if I went back and told my T this she would say "I thought that was implicit in what I said." But, you know what? It's not. I think Ts do feel things like caring, but sometimes, clients need to actually hear them SAY it. For those of us who didn't get to hear things like "I care about you" from our parents or caregivers growing up, we're sort of starved for that kind of acknowledgment and affection. A few simple words from T could go a long way towards healing that pain. It would also give us more confidence to take back to our RL relationships.

skysblue · Nov 30, 2011, 05:32 AM

Peaches, I could have never been able to handle such a response from my T. I don't think you're overreacting at all. I think I would quit if my T was so cold. My T knows me enough that when she sees that I've exposed myself emotionally, she is extra gentle and extra kind. AND, when I've attempted to 'back off' because of my fear or shame, she will gently encourage me to return. Even when I've canceled appointments, she'll say, "I don't think that's a good idea so I'll save your slot in case you change your mind." And so I can never resist her 'invitation'. I feel well-cared for. I am so sorry your T responded so coldly.

rainbow8 · Nov 30, 2011, 01:22 PM

Peaches, you've gotten some excellent replies here!

My opinion is that your T cares about you very much and that she will reassure of that in your session today. Please tell her your reactions to her reponse if she doesn't bring it up. It's important.

I haven't had good experiences with expressing love to my Ts either. You know that when I told it to my former T on the phone, her response was "I hear you but I have to start my day"! Not exactly what I wanted to hear!

My current T said "I love HER" when I told her the child part wants her to say she loves her. I guess that answer wasn't so bad. But when we talked more about love, she told me that she couldn't say "I love you" to me. It would be "disgenuine." However, she did say how much she cares about me and likes me. I think she thanked me too.

Ts have to be careful what they say to us because we hang onto every word. It's a unique relationship as we all know. I hope you have a good session and your T treats you more compassionately. I know she will!

peaches100 · Nov 30, 2011, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pbutton

I would probably have a similiar reaction. However, I also have attachment issues, so having the same response as me is NOT a good thing.

She did say she didn't think you made a fool out of yourself, maybe try to focus on that?

Hi P button,

Yeh, I'm trying to look at it positive. It's hard, though. T knows how hard attachment and trust are for me. We talk about it all the time.

Before I made the confession to t, I had questioned aloud with my t, "Why do I get so upset and triggered when she leaves -- but it doesn't bother me when other people in my life go away?" My t asked me to look inside myself and see if I could find the answer. So I did. And that's when i discovered the answer and shared it with her: "Because child parts love you like they did with mom."

I didn't share it outright. I hedged and hesitated, and told her I was afraid to say it, for fear of how she might react to hearing it. But she encouraged me to say it. So i handed it to her on paper to read. And that's when she said, "It's normal to develop feelings like that with someone who has been nice to you, and whom you've spent alot of time with."

It was SOOOOOO hard to share with her that child parts loved her. I've alluded to it before a couple of times in email. But never when i was sitting right across from her. It's good she validated that my feelings were normal. But i needed something more.

This morning, despite knowing about the anniversary of her mom's passing, and apologizing for bringing up my disappointment in an email to her, I still feel hurt about this and had to say something. I'm supposed to see her at 3 pm today, before she leaves for Panama.

So I sent her an email this morning, letting her know that i feel trepidation about coming in today. (I SOOOOOO don't want to be vulnerable today, after making myself vulnerable last week and feeling rebuffed after my expression of affection.)

I also said in my email that I plan to show up for my session, but if i don't, to please charge me for the session. I think the punishment of having to pay for a session I didn't attend might prevent me from chickening out the next time she plans to leave the country.

I also told her once more that I still feel hurt that she replied to my disclosure of affection with a textbook reply. I was the one who was open and raw and vulnerable and sharing my feelings -- while she was all hidden and safe behind her therapeutic objectivity. But i said I would try to just overlook it, since she has often times overlooked things I've said and regretted.

2 hours before i leave. I don't know if i can do this.

peaches100 · Nov 30, 2011, 02:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wheeler

I'm not sure if it will help, but I would feel (and do feel) the same way as you.
This therapy-relationship-attachment-transference-crap is hard.

However, I think the only 'real' option is for you to work up the courage to talk to her about it.

Good luck

Hi Wheeler,

I'm supposed to see her in a couple of hours. I feel so nervous. Normally, when my t is leaving town, i kind of go numb and feel and sound like I'm wearing an emotion-less mask (like Mr. Spock on Star Trek). It's what I do to try to prevent myself from getting triggered. As a kid, when my mom would spring sudden trips on me, I'd panic and cry. And for some reason, when t goes, i have like a PTSD reaction, where my body wants to get all panicky and cry. So I have to use strong control not to let the PTSD take over. And that's why i have to be numb. Either that, or i will disconnect and not be able to look at her, because i don't want to be reminded of those old painful separation feelings i used to get. In the rare event that i can't stay detached, and i get upset and cry alot, then i feel so ashamed!!

T said she wants me to "do it differently this time" and "not push away in anger." But instead, to "separate with kindness and support and concern." I want to, I do. But i don't know if i can. . .

skysblue · Nov 30, 2011, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

Hi Wheeler,

I'm supposed to see her in a couple of hours. I feel so nervous. Normally, when my t is leaving town, i kind of go numb and feel and sound like I'm wearing an emotion-less mask (like Mr. Spock on Star Trek). It's what I do to try to prevent myself from getting triggered. As a kid, when my mom would spring sudden trips on me, I'd panic and cry. And for some reason, when t goes, i have like a PTSD reaction, where my body wants to get all panicky and cry. So I have to use strong control not to let the PTSD take over. And that's why i have to be numb. Either that, or i will disconnect and not be able to look at her, because i don't want to be reminded of those old painful separation feelings i used to get. In the rare event that i can't stay detached, and i get upset and cry alot, then i feel so ashamed!!

T said she wants me to "do it differently this time" and "not push away in anger." But instead, to "separate with kindness and support and concern." I want to, I do. But i don't know if i can. . .

I can relate somewhat to being triggered when T leaves. I managed to get through one month with her gone recently. I used to have a much more panicky response. I couldn't figure it out. I'm still trying to figure it out. It was like an all out, full body fear reaction. Luckily, my T tried to help me find ways to cope with these sensations and how to cope while she was gone. She was very gentle and very understanding and even said to me that T's have attachment too. So, I was validated - but even with validation it's hard. I so feel for you. Good luck

peaches100 · Nov 30, 2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankster

I would try to see it as her giving you a safe place to have those feelings in, without worrying about what her feelings are about it. It's not "crap" - you are really kind of lucky to have clean unconfused space where just your own emotions exist? Yet it's STILL complicated! You STILL question what all is going on - I don't mean that in a bad way at all! You just still have feelings about it, and AT THE END OF THE DAY, as they say, whether she's a warm huggy T or a chili and frosty T, we are still not going home with them, so what does their mood or temperament matter? As she is going on a trip, yes, you can totally expect yourself to be weird, now and when she gets back, but these are also great opportunities for growth. So I would say she is being careful not to cause you more "breakage" before her trip, but also to give you the space to change if that's what is happening, it's your call. It's a delicate balancing act for them? You sound like you are making great progress in attachment.

Hi Hankster,

You're probably right. Why do I care so much about what my t thinks and feels? I guess it comes down to crappy self-esteem and the feeling of being open and naked -- putting your neck on the chopping block and trusting (hoping) after you've put your feelings "out there," the person won't walk right past without noticing, or worse, lower the boom! I've loved and trusted some people in my life, both when i was a little girl, a teenager, and an adult in a particularly vulnerable position - with major clinical depression.

And I've so often gotten betrayed.

By the neighbor who lured me in with cookies and affection and then SA'd me -- to my parents who did nothing to protect me or help me deal with it -- to my best friend as a teen who slept with my boyfriend in a tent as i laid right next to them pretending to be asleep -- to the older woman friend who drew me into her attention and care when i was depressed, only to visciously abandon me when i didn't solve my problems her way . . .and for that matter, to the loss of all 3 of my close friends when i got depressed. None of them understood depression and instead, blamed me for having a bad attitude, wallowing in self-pity, not being spiritual enough, etc. These were people I loved, people I'd given my heart to, people i naively, innocently, stupidly trusted.

Now, with t, I'm trying to trust again and open up to love again. I'm scared to death of getting hurt, scared to put myself out there. And when i do it, i get a "clinical" response.

Makes me want to go back into a hole and stay there.

Thing is, i know my t cares, and she has in the past said some very soothing, supportive words. I should be able to draw on those past times, and overlook what she said. But dang! it's hard!! I feel like I'm on constant 24-hour alert to keep from getting hurt. And any little thing I'm going to jump on, because i don't want to trust and be hurt anymore.

peaches100 · Nov 30, 2011, 02:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hankster

I would try to see it as her giving you a safe place to have those feelings in, without worrying about what her feelings are about it. It's not "crap" - you are really kind of lucky to have clean unconfused space where just your own emotions exist? Yet it's STILL complicated! You STILL question what all is going on - I don't mean that in a bad way at all! You just still have feelings about it, and AT THE END OF THE DAY, as they say, whether she's a warm huggy T or a chili and frosty T, we are still not going home with them, so what does their mood or temperament matter? As she is going on a trip, yes, you can totally expect yourself to be weird, now and when she gets back, but these are also great opportunities for growth. So I would say she is being careful not to cause you more "breakage" before her trip, but also to give you the space to change if that's what is happening, it's your call. It's a delicate balancing act for them? You sound like you are making great progress in attachment.

Hi Hankster,

I sort of "went off" and got off topic in my reply to you. Sorry about that. You're right, that it's an opportunity for growth. Over time, my t has given me tips and taught me skills to cope. So this will give me the opportunity to see how i can manage using them. Problem is. . .I feel like I've had too many "opportunities" to cope lately. This year, t has taken 9 weeks off, so I've had to miss that many sessions. She's never taken so much time off before. So it has been constant separation triggers. I know it's not "really" about my t -- but about what's not resolved from my childhood with mom. But in the moment, when t leaves, it "feels" the same way, which is anxiety producing, embarrassing, and frustrating!!

I'm hoping it goes OK when i see t today and that when i leave her office, things feel settled in my heart and stomach. I couldn't stand for things to feel uncomfortable and "hanging" during the 3 weeks i don't see her.

mcl6136 · Nov 30, 2011, 02:23 PM

you can do this...it will be a relief once it's over...

hugs to you!

Sannah · Nov 30, 2011, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

I feel like I'm on constant 24-hour alert to keep from getting hurt. And any little thing I'm going to jump on, because i don't want to trust and be hurt anymore.

This is insightful.

peaches100 · Nov 30, 2011, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannah

Therapy is about you and for you Peaches. It is for you to get comfortable with yourself. If she got more involved therapy would be about her too. I sort of see the therapist as a mirror.

Hi Sannah,

I understand part of what you said. The t acting as a mirror -- helping us to understand ourselves -- i can understand that and it makes sense. But i disagree that therapy isn't about her at all. Isn't it about learning how to have healthy relationships? How am i going to learn that if t is not part of the equation?

peaches100 · Nov 30, 2011, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

I really get wanting to or expecting to have a response from T for saying particular things that I think are particularly meaningful. However, I've learned over and over again that I usually don't get the reaction that I want, or that I'm expecting, or that I'm hoping for. And we're never wrong to feel what we feel when it doesn't happen the way we anticipated/wanted. It's confusing and weird.

I guess the question I have explored, with myself and sometimes with my T, is how do I make sense of this gap between what I expected/wanted from him and what he actually gave me? One of the most important things for me in therapy has been my T's honest reactions. He's not a bullsh*tter and while he is very gentle and sensitive, he seems to work very hard to give me what the "moment" needs rather than what I want. It's so important to me because I grew up in a house where you couldn't ever tell the truth, nobody believed you if you did, and I often got mixed messages from the adults who supposedly knew what they were doing. When he gives me an honest reaction to what I'm telling him, it's like some of the damage from my childhood is erased.

I think what I have learned from this is how I relate to other people when I don't get the reaction I'm looking for. I don't know about you, but sometimes my friends, or potential friends, don't reciprocate in the ways I'd like them to. Or I don't feel like reciprocating and I"ve noticed, particularly with my BFF, that she reacts to me not giving her the reaction that I wanted. It has really helped me stop trying to falsely analyze people and their connection to me-- and by falsely analyze I mean to make assumptions like "my BFF called to cancel the plans that we made earlier this week. I must have done something to make her angry, let's spend 20 hours trying to figure this out." Now I can accept what things are more on a face level-- e.g. she's tired, as she said, and she just wants some time alone at home.

In my version of your story here, I try to take the honest reaction of my T to learn something about myself. It doesn't always work, but it has at least helped me to try.

Anne

Hi 3rd times the charm,

I relate to what you said about having expectations for people to act/respond in a certain way. I am often bothered when people do not act the way that i think they "should" act. I guess i have an idea inside myself of what i think is kind behavior, and when others don't react in ways that feel kind, it bothers me. My h says i just have too high of expectations for people, and nobody can be the way i want them to be. I dunno. Maybe it's true.

What you said about acceptance and trying to figure things out applies to me as well. I have a super hard time accepting things that do not play out the way i want them to, or think they should. And i spent endless amounts of time picking apart a person's statement or action, trying to figure out "what they REALLY mean," rather than being able to accept what they've said or done at face value. It's like i don't trust what i see and hear -- i think there's always something hidden, some ulterior motive, some unspoken hint, and i need to find out what it is before i can understand the situation. It's almost like trying so hard to read between the lines that i cannot read the lines themselves.

Sometimes i feel like a hopeless case.

unaluna · Nov 30, 2011, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

It's almost like trying so hard to read between the lines that i cannot read the lines themselves. Sometimes i feel like a hopeless case.

1. that is a good description of how my mother always communicated - always some underlying meaning or message, what somebody "really" meant by what they said - you could never just say what you mean, and mean what you say; so exhausting! so glad not to be doing that anymore!
2. elan vital's article yesterday on recovery was helpful for me feeling like a hopeless case! kinda helped me see how far I really have come, how what I am doing is coping and living - reframing my life situation, I think is how 3rd times would phrase it!
3. i'm sorry, I wasn't trying to say it didn't matter how t felt towards us, or how anybody felt towards us, and that is terrible about how people are demanding such a high price for their so-called friendship - not even terrible, maybe just bizarre. but I was trying to say something about whether t is warm or cold - but then you posted about t's mother, and I think you really did touch her, but she was just trying to not let her own emotions (about her mother) interfere too much. I hope people's posts on here are helping you? I have found it easier to be with people IRL the better I learn to get along with people on PC.

Sannah · Nov 30, 2011, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

As a kid, when my mom would spring sudden trips on me, I'd panic and cry. when t goes,...my body wants to get all panicky and cry. i don't want to be reminded of those old painful separation feelings i used to get.

Peaches, I think that you need to talk about this stuff with your T so that you can release these feelings from the past. This is the only way to not get them triggered up. You will carry these feelings around with you until you release them in therapy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

i disagree that therapy isn't about her at all. Isn't it about learning how to have healthy relationships? How am i going to learn that if t is not part of the equation?

Yes, a healthy therapy relationship, which isn't a real life relationship.

pachyderm · Dec 01, 2011, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannah

Yes, a healthy therapy relationship, which isn't a real life relationship.

Therapy takes place in an alternate universe, so it is not "real". At least not in our universe...

Dec 01, 2011, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by peaches100

Sometimes i feel like a hopeless case.

I would say that when you feel like you can accept what people say at face value, life takes a lot less energy and uses up a lot less angst. I still continue to work towards this goal; it's definitely an ongoing process. I believe you can do it.

I also relate to the feeling of hopelessness. I think this comes from my childhood and the endless hope (which never came) for rescue. Until, of course, I became a self sufficient adult. But I still feel as if I am broken in a way that can't be fixed, which only has the benefit of driving my T up the wall

But, more seriously, I think I am coming around to feeling okay with my brokenness, as if the whole of me is inside of it.

Anne

Sannah · Dec 01, 2011, 03:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

I would say that when you feel like you can accept what people say at face value, life takes a lot less energy and uses up a lot less angst.

Yes!! I've gotten to the point now that if you don't directly tell me I will not know. I finally learned to quit mind reading and it was the best thing!! If I do get an assumption I check it out ASAP before I react to it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

But, more seriously, I think I am coming around to feeling okay with my brokenness,

This sounds like acceptance which is required before you can really work on any of it. If you don't accept exactly who you are and where you are at you can't move forward from there.

skysblue · Dec 01, 2011, 03:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3rdTimesTheCharm

I would say that when you feel like you can accept what people say at face value, life takes a lot less energy and uses up a lot less angst.
Anne

But doesn't that work only when people are being honest and forthright? I knew someone who lied constantly. We had lots of conversations about it. Finally, I decided that we had processed his instinct to lie and I took the leap to trust and to accept what he said 'at face value'. It had a serious impact on me when I learned he continued his lying ways.

Sannah · Dec 01, 2011, 07:16 PM

That's where you choose who you allow around you. Deceptive, untrusty people do not get a second of my time. If they earn that reputation this is what I expect from them and my boundaries keep them very far away.

skysblue · Dec 02, 2011, 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sannah

That's where you choose who you allow around you. Deceptive, untrusty people do not get a second of my time. If they earn that reputation this is what I expect from them and my boundaries keep them very far away.

Can you always tell if someone is being deceptive or untrustworthy? How? Some people are so good at hiding themselves and their motives. The person who lied to me comes across as friendly and open. He laughs a lot, is engaging and everyone likes him. He's popular and charismatic. But he lies about absolutely everything. And almost no one knows that.

So, doesn't it make sense to continue to check people out? To only take people at 'face value' would seem to be naive. Although I do that myself and then get hurt later because I trust.

Sannah · Dec 02, 2011, 12:25 PM

I give people the benefit of the doubt until I learn that they don't deserve that. Of course I am always alert. But I'm not suspicious.

Maybe you need to heal some old wounds and then you won't get too hurt today??

peaches100 · Dec 05, 2011, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SallyBrown

Peaches,

I feel your pain. Two very similar things happened to me, and they were two of the biggest ruptures I've experienced in therapy so far. To answer your last question, no, you are not making a big deal out of nothing -- the clinical response works well for some people, but not for others. I have attachment issues as well, and the clinical response is very bad for me too.

So let me blather on a bit about my experience, and maybe some of it will ring true for you:

First, saying I love you. I don't use the word "love" very much. I was terrified to use it in therapy to describe anything at all. The part of me still wounded from childhood wants nobody to know anything about what I am attached to, because the result was often either shaming or deprivation. I tell my T that I hoard good feelings and memories to myself so that no one can harm them.

So when I finally told him I loved him, and he reacted as if I had told him I love cheesecake, it was not good. Not good at all. And like you, I didn't expect him to say anything back about his personal feelings about me, nor did I think they mattered in the context of what I myself wanted to say.

What I found was that what really upset me is that he didn't seem to recognize just how big it was that I had said those words. I have never told anyone I loved them without hearing it from them first. Around 8 or 9 years old I stopped hugging my parents and telling them I loved them, at all. T had made me want to change that, to give attachment and vulnerability a try, and this was the biggest thing I could have possibly done in that direction. So I found that what really hurt was that it seemed that T either didn't know me anywhere near as well as I thought, which was disturbing, or that he didn't care, which was more disturbing. I felt like I had been doing the right thing all along, hoarding my good feelings, so why the hell had I wasted 4 years in therapy? If it made no difference whether I said "I love you" or not, then what was the point?

I felt that if he did not see my saying "I love yoU" to someone without them saying it first or even expecting to hear it back, as the most important thing I could possibly have done, then therapy with him was not going to work. Therapy that I had invested a lot of love into. And that was devastating.

As for the cold e-mail, I got a very similar e-mail ("It's up to you whether you want to come in or not"), but at a time when I was quite suicidal and really not able to think straight about whether to come in at all. At the time I needed someone to say, "You're so serious about killing yourself that you've been updating the beneficiaries of your savings accounts, and you're NOT SURE if you should come in?? Get your *** in here!"

The thing that makes me most upset in periods of serious detachment is that it seems like I can do whatever and no one will care. Everything feels like it's up to me, and to an extent it is. But it's also a lonely way to live, to not rely on anybody for anything. I err on the side of taking on too MUCH responsibility, so by the time I actually ask someone for help I NEED help. It hurt that T did not see that -- that I wouldn't be so indecisive if something wasn't really, really wrong. And it hurt that he did not see that my reaching out to him at all was a big deal, and instead zeroed in on my implying that I needed him to make a decision for me.

It used to make me angry, actually, when people would say that "you shouldn't kill yourself, it's not fair to those that love you." Oh really? I'm not supposed to look for support when I'm depressed, because it's up to me to get better, and I'm not supposed to look for support when I feel like starving myself, because it's up to me to improve my body image, but all of a sudden when I make a decision that life just isn't my cup of tea, it's not up to me?

I could continue about this, but I don't want to jack your thread! In the end, these things were resolved by my therapist and me agreeing that the more distant clinical approach wasn't going to help me. I mean, it just felt like my childhood all over again, and was yielding the same conclusions. I found out later that his training group had pressured him to be more distant with me, to stick closer to dogma, not long before I took the leap and said, "I love you." And he apologized for betraying my needs in that way.

so your T is probably doing what she thinks is right for you, but that doesn't mean it is. It took me telling my therapist, "Look, the cool clinical approach might work well for you and other patients, and that's fine. I get the theory and everything. But it doesn't work for me, and I intend to start looking for a therapist who takes a different approach." You may need to find a new therapist, but see if you can express your needs clearly to this one and find a new way of doing things.

Sorry this is such a novel -- I hope it's helpful.

Edited to add: The clinical response does work for some things, I should say. It helped me to be less silent. But it does not work in times of vulnerability and rare periods of attempted attachment.

Hi Sally,

First of all, I want to say how sorry I am that your t didn't respond to your expressed feelings in a more compassionate way! It does hurt to reveal something very close to our hearts, and to have the hearer react in a bland, almost apathetic fashion.

I understand the professional nature of the relationship, and I'm sure you do too. But we're still talking about 2 human beings here in a relationship. Does the therapist really have to be a blank slate?

I certainly think it's possible for a therapist to respond with appreciation and caring, without giving the impression that they are in love with their patients -- which seems to be, from what i've read -- the fear that therapists have (e.g., that patients will think the relationship is "more" than it is). I think it's harmful to meet a heartfelt expression with what appears, on the surface, to be indifference. To me, that's just as harmful. It gives the impression, "T doesn't give a hoot about me." The polar opposite of "T is in love with me." Neither one is balanced.

Sally, I'm sorry that your expressions in childhood to those you were attached to resulted in shaming and deprivation. I also was shamed often for my feelings by my dad. He would make fun of my feelings until i got upset and cried, and then laugh or call me a crybaby. I've also given my heart to people who betrayed me terribly. So I truly understand what you mean when you say it was a "big thing" to tell your t you loved him.

When you get attached, and then hurt, so many times, you build up layers of walls around you. Pretty soon, the walls are so thick, you can't give any of your love out, or let anybody else's love in. It's almost impossible to trust and love again, when you've been burned so many times. It takes tremendous courage! Like you, i wanted my t to acknowledge what a "big deal" it was for me to finally build up enough trust to bring those walls down and feel the connection to her. Our t's didn't need to reply that they loved us in return. That wasn't the point. But how about if they had said, "Wow! Do you realize what a giant step you've taken? You've been hurt so many times that you swore to yourself you would NEVER attach to another person again. But look! You've been able to attach to me. I feel honored."

Sadly, sometimes t's get it wrong.

I think in my own t's case, she meant well. By replying that "it was a normal feeling to develop when someone has been nice to you and you've spent time together," I think she was trying to say it was good and OK to love her. It wasn't weird or abnormal. (Because my feelings were squelched so much as a child, I often don't know if a feeling is normal or not.) She wasn't downplaying my feelings for her, just looking at it from a different angle, and replying from that angle. But because I've been rebuffed so many times in the past when I've shared my feelings, i automatically felt rebuffed by my t.

You brought up another difficult/tricky situation: what t should do when a patient is in crisis/suicidal and reluctant to come to session because they aren't able to think clearly about what they need. Should the t give encouragement to come in? Or leave the decision entirely up to the patient? Personally, unless there is some rule that therapists are not supposed to do it, I think a t should encourage the patient to come in! I think to "not" do that is harmful.

SophiaG · Dec 05, 2011, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skysblue

Can you always tell if someone is being deceptive or untrustworthy? How? Some people are so good at hiding themselves and their motives. The person who lied to me comes across as friendly and open. He laughs a lot, is engaging and everyone likes him. He's popular and charismatic. But he lies about absolutely everything. And almost no one knows that.

Oh look, glib superficial personality. and he lies all the time, and covers it up.

Could he have...Anti social personality disorder?

CantExplain · Dec 05, 2011, 10:31 PM

Can I just make two points:

1. Therapists often grow to love their patients, but it can take time. Your T may have a slower heart than yours.

2. Therapists above all do not want to lie to you or let you down. So they will not say "I love you" unless they are absolutely sure. Many patients have been betrayed and deceived about love and T does not want to add to that.

scorpiosis37 · Dec 06, 2011, 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CantExplain

Can I just make two points:

1. Therapists often grow to love their patients, but it can take time. Your T may have a slower heart than yours.

2. Therapists above all do not want to lie to you or let you down. So they will not say "I love you" unless they are absolutely sure. Many patients have been betrayed and deceived about love and T does not want to add to that.

Agreed, and I think you do have a point there. But what it seems OP (and others) are looking for is not a reciprocal "I love you" but a more casual response that simply demonstrates Ts caring and empathy. For instance, a T could say "Thank-you for sharing that with me. That's really special. I care about you too-- you're a great client to work with." I think that would be both compassionate and accurate, without giving a client any false hope that T loves them as "more" than a client. I think taking a cold and clinical approach can actually do damage to a client who has trouble expressing emotions, particularly if the client has had bad reactions in the past when expressing love to others. It just seems Ts are so used to handling certain thing "by the book" that they sometimes forget to be human or forget the human aspects of the therapy relationship.

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