[skysblue]

I've always felt my T is awesome. She is warm, empathic, supportive, kind and has all the positive attributes that have helped me grow in trust with her.

We've had ruptures in the past and she's always been steadfast and helped me work through them. And because of the repairs of those ruptures, my trust has grown and I've been able to divulge more and more of my inner feelings no matter how embarrassing or shameful I may be about them.

But yesterday she said something that has me totally rattled. I have no idea how this rupture could possibly be repaired.

See, I've been struggling with depression that seems to be getting stronger lately with all its negative consequences. My MD suggested antidepressants and on March 24 my T suggested I see a pdoc for meds.

Those suggestions threw me for a loop because I do not suffer from clinical depression and have thought I just struggle with a low mood sometimes. Hearing T be so concerned made me feel a bit anxious.

So, from 3/24 on we've spent most sessions discussing my concerns about taking antidepressants, my making appt. with pdoc, my canceling appt. with pdoc, etc.

It was only in last week's session that meds were not discussed.

So, imagine my surprise yesterday when my T asked me, "Have we discussed yet an option for you to take antidepressants?"

I was stunned when she asked that and I replied, "Yes, you wanted me to see Dr. X"

T was so apologetic that she forgot and confessed her embarrassment. I brushed it aside and thought it was o.k. and we continued with our discussion.

It was only until about 3 hours after session that it hit me - SHE FORGOT!!!!!! How could she forget? This was about something very important, very recent, and very emotional for me. And she forgot.

If she forgot, what does that mean as far as the enormous trust I've put in her?

I finally called her and left a message telling her how I feel. But then I texted and canceled the extra appointment I made for next week to prepare for her leaving on vacation. It's not only her leaving but also that I'm facing a huge struggle right now the reason I asked for extra session next week.

But now I have to back off. It feels too risky to trust her just before she leaves. I would cancel my regular appointment but after 16 months with her, that slot seems like a contract I need to fulfill.

So, how can I get over this? Sure, I've said to myself "She only human. Of course she makes mistakes. Of course she'll forget sometimes. I shouldn't hold her to a higher standard than anyone else. She cares, even if she forgets stuff sometimes. Remember all the good she's done. Don't put so much blame on her for this one thing."

That was my grownup mind talking but my child mind feels big-time abandonment. She forgot. That's a fact. How can I ever accept that?

I will not quit therapy because I'm still very attached to T but I think it may be the end of my deep sharing with her. I will use her to tackle less emotional difficulties in my life and get from her practical solutions to easier problems. But to divulge huge parts of myself again and know she'll probably forget - I don't know if I can do that anymore.

[SoupDragon]

Hi skysblue - is it not the most intensive feelings / emotions that we can learn the most from?

I can sit here and say that, but can also so empathise with how you are feeling - I too am terrified with the thought of meds and it would be a big thing to discuss with T, so I can really appreciate the devastation felt when your T forgot this massive detail.

I can also really feel the swing between adult - "Of course she is human" and other part "How could she forget!!!?"

Hope you can stick with it and work through this with your T - it sounds as if you have done some great work with her recently.

Soup

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

Hope you can stick with it and work through this with your T - it sounds as if you have done some great work with her recently.

Soup

Thanks Soup - I don't know how this can be worked through. She has already apologized and has already shared her embarrassment about forgetting. What else can she do? There is no way that I can see that she can erase the fact that she forgot. She forgot. She forgot.

I think when I see her next week I'll just say it's fine and not discuss it anymore with her. I mean, why torture her and make her feel bad? I don't want to do that. She is a good person. But she forgot.

[CantExplain]

I'm sorry you've been hurt.

But people do forget things.

It is interesting that this bothers you so much.

(You know what's coming next!)

It would be really useful if you could talk this over with your T.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by CantExplain

I'm sorry you've been hurt.

But people do forget things.

It is interesting that this bothers you so much.

(You know what's coming next!)

It would be really useful if you could talk this over with your T.

CE- am I unique that this is bothersome? You comment that it's 'interesting' that I am bothered.. Yes, to me this is HUGE. I can see if T forgets that I had lunch with 'Josey' or that I was going to the doctor or something like that.

But she forgot what we had intense conversations about. Big, serious, deeply emotional (for me) conversations. Would other people not be bothered by this?

I suspect my T will bring it up in session next week but I see no point in discussing it with her further. Am I supposed to rake her over the coals because she forgot? I don't want to do that. Like I said, she is a good and kind person and I don't want to dump on her. But it still hurts.

[Asiablue]

Skysblue, what struck me in your posts was that perhaps this "rupture" has came at an opportune time for you, it gives you the excuse to emotionally distance yourself from your therapist at a time when she was leaving for vacation. I wonder whether you've been subconsciously trying to detach from her anyway in order to cope with her vacation? Cancelling your appointment is perhaps you retreating to safety from the perceived abandonment of her forgetting something so important and the impending physical abandonment of her vacation but also there's maybe an element of "punishing" her for forgetting.

Could the strong reaction you are having be tapping into a past hurt where one of your caregivers made you feel like they'd forgotten you?

Realistically, i think you know your therapist had a momentary lapse in concentration, perhaps due to tiredness, to personal issues, to just too much on her mind. She hasn't abandoned you, she made a mistake, she's human and she's fell off that pedestal you had her on

She sounds like she cares for you and you for her and i think that's worth honouring, and giving her another chance. I think there could be valuable learning in this rupture.

I hope you feel better about it all soon x

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Thanks Soup - I don't know how this can be worked through. She has already apologized and has already shared her embarrassment about forgetting. What else can she do? There is no way that I can see that she can erase the fact that she forgot. She forgot. She forgot.

I think when I see her next week I'll just say it's fine and not discuss it anymore with her. I mean, why torture her and make her feel bad? I don't want to do that. She is a good person. But she forgot.

I think in the throes of emotion and working with T, we ourselves can forget it is not sometimes what T can do to improve things for us, but what we can do.

This is strange for me Skysblue - because for the first time ever I have asked my T for an extra session today - he has hurt me and I am on the brink of definitely quitting this time.

But I am gaining from reading your e-mail - I see things in black or white, it is either this or that kind of thing - if someone breaks my trust (which is what T did on Tuesday) that is it - sweep them aside and never see them again.

But what I am realising from reading your post, where I do not have the same emotional involvement with your T, is that many times in my life, I do set my standards high in how people should behave with me (think I set teh same high standards for myself and them beat myself up when I don't measure up) and yes sometimes I have then put up barriers to them and not let them in again. But does all the good stuff about someone get negated when they do one thign wrong? Who ultimately loses in this situation? Is it not ourselves? I wonder what can be gained by both of us, in trying to forgive and just use the opportunity to learn more about ourselves and how to improve our experience in life.

Hugs to you - Soup

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Skysblue, what struck me in your posts was that perhaps this "rupture" has came at an opportune time for you, it gives you the excuse to emotionally distance yourself from your therapist at a time when she was leaving for vacation. I wonder whether you've been subconsciously trying to detach from her anyway in order to cope with her vacation? Cancelling your appointment is perhaps you retreating to safety from the perceived abandonment of her forgetting something so important and the impending physical abandonment of her vacation but also there's maybe an element of "punishing" her for forgetting.

Could the strong reaction you are having be tapping into a past hurt where one of your caregivers made you feel like they'd forgotten you?

Realistically, i think you know your therapist had a momentary lapse in concentration, perhaps due to tiredness, to personal issues, to just too much on her mind. She hasn't abandoned you, she made a mistake, she's human and she's fell off that pedestal you had her on

She sounds like she cares for you and you for her and i think that's worth honouring, and giving her another chance. I think there could be valuable learning in this rupture.

I hope you feel better about it all soon x

Asiablue - you have given me something to think about. Before I began reacting to her forgetting, I had begun to believe that T can't really help me anymore with my depression - that it's beyond anyone's ability. That I should not expect so much from her. There are some things in life that cannot be solved.

Then I remembered her 'abandonment' comment (her forgetting) and later I remembered a couple of other things she forgot about me that came up in session.

So, I guess you may be right that my reaction is an attempt to push her away and not give her anymore power to hurt me. I've been hurt badly in the past but by working with her on it, I was able to finally see my own dysfunctional reactions at work.

But this one feels differently somehow. It seems more real. It's not all in my mind. It isn't subject to interpretation. It is a fact that she forgot.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by SoupDragon

But does all the good stuff about someone get negated when they do one thign wrong? Who ultimately loses in this situation? Is it not ourselves? I wonder what can be gained by both of us, in trying to forgive and just use the opportunity to learn more about ourselves and how to improve our experience in life.

Soup, you have some wise words here. I think I have such deep distrust that anyone could ever really care about me that after trusting T so much and seeing 'evidence' that her caring was not real, hits me in a deep deep vulnerable place. My instinct is to wail and cry and kick and scream and run to the corner to hide and never be seen again. I mean, why trust again? In my mind it's obvious she doesn't really care because SHE FORGOT.

I'm seeing the dysfunction in this attitude but I'm having a hard time aligning my feelings with my rational mind.

[SoupDragon]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Soup, you have some wise words here. I think I have such deep distrust that anyone could ever really care about me that after trusting T so much and seeing 'evidence' that her caring was not real, hits me in a deep deep vulnerable place. My instinct is to wail and cry and kick and scream and run to the corner to hide and never be seen again. I mean, why trust again? In my mind it's obvious she doesn't really care because SHE FORGOT.

I'm seeing the dysfunction in this attitude but I'm having a hard time aligning my feelings with my rational mind.

I am due to see my T this evening and feel the same - first he can't really care, because no-one really does. Yes sometimes he may seem to "get me" and I start to believe, then he shows his "true beliefs" yes it was there all the time, just hidden behind a facade of pretending to care - stupid of me to think things could ever be different . SD

[bluemountains]

I understand your feeling of being hurt by your t's forgetfulness. I, too, feel this way when my t never gets back to what we were talking about in a session, even though she says we will. I know I am "in charge" of what we discuss, but I would like for her to remember, so that I don't have to bring up the topic at hand. It was hard enough the first time! Otherwise, she is pretty thorough when we are in discussion, as long as time doesn't run out!
Bluemountains

[elliemay]

yes, it is a fact she forgot, but it is also a fact that you don't feel very well right now.

I know when I am depressed, or in a low mood as you say, things hurt much much worse than they otherwise would AND I adopt resignation as standard operating procedure. It's strange. Depression is weird.

It's hard to get a hold on some perspective. Yeah, I know I can "think" correctly, but sadness and melancholy color everything. The feelings can be overblown.

I know when I'm feeling well, my therapist forgetting something would elicit a response from me of "you nimrod, were you paying attention at all? Geez, I want my money back for those sessions! "

When I'm not feeling well, forgetting would be a harbinger of doom - because everything is a harbinger of doom when I'm depressed.

As you said in your first post, these feelings of abandonment and fear, etc. come from a child part of you. You know with the adult you that people forget, particularly people who are juggling information from many different people, she's human like the rest of us, like yourself. You are an adult. You will have to choose to listen to the adult you here. This doesn't seem like something irreversible at all. You are not feeling well, you are about to have a bit of a separation from therapy due to vacation if I read that right. It seems like your "child" is in a very unproductive, self-protective mode. When my children aren't thinking clearly, I have to sit them down and help them see the reality of the situation. Sit down with your child and reassure her that all is well. Your T is still the same person. Everything else is just perception.

[Dreamy01]

Skyblue, I'm sorry you have experienced this. It is really painful.

I have reacted in a similar way to different T's who have forgotten something I've told them. I agree with what everyone else is saying about the past issues impacting on the present. It is natural that you feel abandoned but it certainly doesn't mean you have been. T is still there for you and cares for you. She just made a mistake.

I hope you can go back and explore your emotions around this. I really think it would be so important if you can.

I want to thank you for this thread because I am experiencing a rupture with my own T which is very different in subject matter yet my emotions are exactly the same as yours. My T seemed deliberately hurtful but I am holding onto the fact it MIGHT be a complete disconnect and am prepared to go back and see. But the feeling that she has changed and everything is unsafe is very strong for me too.

I hope you and T can work this out.

[SpiritRunner]

skysblue, I've missed you the last while! I'm sorry you've been feeling so low ... that would be hard, and contemplating taking meds is not an easy thing either.
All things considered, I think your situation and how you've been feeling has magnified your perception of the incident as well as your reaction to it. It feels bigger to you because you feel lower than usual ....
Things happen, people do forget .... or have lapses, brain farts. Happened to me the other day in an intense conversation with a friend, about a situation that occurred with another friend (and her concern relating to me not taking my meds when something fairly drastic happened with this other friend of ours when he quit taking his meds and so her fear over me not taking mine is painful for her....). At one point, I thought the conversation had shifted down a different track, so when she referred back to the man's wife/kids without using their names, I was thinking who?, and said, who? She was not pleased and I felt momentarily stupid for not keeping the connection made in my head - but it was because I thought she had shifted onto a different topic, so I shifted too, but she hadn't. I didn't forget, but I did lose focus for a moment. And I think perhaps it is that your T didn't so much forget, as she lost focus for a moment, and spoke before it came back to her ..... just a lapse, a crack in her concentration, as it were.
You keep saying you don't want to bring it back up, or beat her over the head with it. It wouldn't be that at all. This isn't about her .... it's about you and your feelings about this. She wouldn't feel as if she were being beat over the head about it!
Moments like these come up in relationships a lot, really. Someone makes a mistake, realizes it, apologizes, but maybe you still have lingering feelings. It's OK and good to talk about those feelings with that person - to say, I know you feel badly about what happened and I accept your apologies, but I still have feelings about it I need to talk about. Can you help me work through them? This is what you need to do with T. If you don't, this is where the rupture will actually happen. I wouldn't term this as a rupture right now exactly, but if you try to push these feelings away, not be open with her about them, and they continue to affect you, that is what will create the distance and therefore the rupture between you.
Don't hide from your own feelings, either ..... they are what they are and nothing to be ashamed of, just something to be felt and dealt with.
Your T is very good; let her help you with this. It's OK.

[WikidPissah]

(((skysblue))) I am sorry T forgot. That must have riveted thru your whole being. I get the feeling of unimportance. I mean WTF? I called T for crisis 3 times one week because I had to put my dog down. I was devastated, I loved that dog SO much. And the whole act of holding him while he died just about killed me. The following week I went to my regular t appt.
T: So, how was your week?
Me: You're kidding me right?
T: (puzzled) No, why did something bad happen?

It separated us for quite a while, but gradually I did trust him again and let my guard down. At least until his next gaffoo.

[unaluna]

all good advice here, and i've missed you too! I concur with spiritrunner's more about you (not) dealing with your angry feelings. You are entitled to them and nothing bad will happen to you for having them and you can stay in the r/s; T is not your mother. R/s are between imperfect people; there is NOTHING between perfect people.

[Perna]

I would try not to confuse the deep discussions you had that were so meaningful to you with the remembering of them. They are not a package, all neatly boxed up as "the meds/seeing a psychiatrist issue" that your therapist mislaid. Your T was there, with you, 100% during each of those discussions and that is what you get, her attendance, then.

But she probably has 20+ people she sees, many seeing this or that doctor for this or that problem and the going-to-the-doctor memory of X, Y, and Z client of hers are just "facts", like who she has appointments with and the time; taking her calendar personally if she were in a rush and forgot to write in yours or double booked, etc. would be the same sort of mistake. She hasn't forgotten YOU, she has forgotten a fact in her own life, a who-is-seeing-which-doctor-for-which-reason.

I would imagine some of the forgetting was because you have not seen the psychiatrist yet and the two of you have not discussed him and how you feel on X med and whether it appears to be helping or not; think about that you have been discussing "might-be," which is kind of a worry/anxiety/future (which we can't know) subject so not easy to keep hold of for another? What is important from your point of view is not how it looks from another's point of view; our anxiety over future possibilities is important to our therapists but can be hard for them to keep hold of because they live in "now".

[stopdog]

I would rage at the therapist about it for awhile and then I would joke about it and then, possibly years later, allow the therapist to joke about it.

[skysblue]

Thanks all for you generous offering of support. I agree with all of your comments. I do see your collective wisdom at work here.

elliemay - you're so right that what mood one is in will definitely color how we perceive or receive information. I know my feelings are overblown. I need to get a handle on them. Although when I've used that expression before my T advises me to 'not' get a handle on them, that that conveys an outside attempt at control. She advises me to sit with the emotions and let them be heard and not try to tamp them down. Hear what they have to say. I guess I must try that now.

farmergirl - of course you're absolutely right. But I suspect that at the moment my child mind is very rebellious and will not listen to the adult mind. Or is trying to listen but cannot hear well.

Dreamy - sorry you're going through something with your T now also. I agree that I should go back and explore these emotions with T. My instinct though is to cut and run. I left her a voicemail last night telling her my feelings. I hated confessing them because I don't want to make myself more vulnerable but I do try my hardest to be honest with her. We have an agreement that she doesn't return my calls unless I specifically request it. What would probably help me now is if she returned my call even though I didn't make a request. I've probably only requested a call back 3 times in these past 16 months so it's not often.

Spiritrunner - you're right. If I don't work this out with T our relationship will have made a turn for the worse. The problem I see is that I can't imagine what it will take for me to not feel rejected and abandoned like I do now.

Wikkid - I've had ruptures with my T before and we've been able to repair them. Once in the past I labeled the hurt I felt as "2 x 4 to the exposed heart". This one I'm calling "a sword through the heart" It's amazing to me that something so slight and insignificant is having such a whammo affect on me.

Hankster - yeah, that ol' mother replay. My mother was stern and controlling and distant. Not a place to find a secure loving attachment, that's for sure. I understand a lot about attachment theory and its place in therapy. Having a safe place to share freely my emotions has been such a gift for me. I watch my daughter with her young sons and they, for sure, have secure attachment with them. She is always soothing even when she needs to deny them their wishes. She is so attuned and loving. I never had that as a child or as an adult. I've always felt that I'm kept around as long as I'm useful but heaven forbid I show my true feelings or emotions or who I really am - then off to the curb you go.

Perna - of course I agree with you. Sometimes I wonder how T's can do their job. How can they bring such focus to each person and each session and work so hard to provide the unique and special needs that each client has. But I still don't understand how my T could have forgotten. See, I had left her a voicemail that Saturday morning 3/24 and asked her to remember my thinking so we could discuss it next session. I was driving out of town and pulled over when I remembered something from the night before.

Well, T thought I was having sui thoughts but I disagree with her. She returned my call Saturday afternoon. That is something that never happens hardly - her calling me. She was concerned enough that we talked about 1/2 hour about antidepressants and see a pdoc. Something so unusual between us along with the next few session discussing the same issue seems to warrant a memory of it, doesn't it?

stopdog - I am definitely not at that place yet. Hopefully someday.

[elliemay]

Originally Posted by skysblue

Thanks all for you generous offering of support. I agree with all of your comments. I do see your collective wisdom at work here.

elliemay - you're so right that what mood one is in will definitely color how we perceive or receive information. I know my feelings are overblown. I need to get a handle on them. Although when I've used that expression before my T advises me to 'not' get a handle on them, that that conveys an outside attempt at control. She advises me to sit with the emotions and let them be heard and not try to tamp them down. Hear what they have to say. I guess I must try that now.

i think she is absolutely right. The feelings are what they are. There's no stopping them. However, predicting that you will never trust your therapist is an action. Sit with the feelings, but only the feelings of disappointment, betrayal, anger and hurt. There need no be any action or decisions that arise from them - especially when you know "logically" that they may be overblown.

[skysblue]

Originally Posted by elliemay

i think she is absolutely right. The feelings are what they are. There's no stopping them. However, predicting that you will never trust your therapist is an action. Sit with the feelings, but only the feelings of disappointment, betrayal, anger and hurt. There need no be any action or decisions that arise from them - especially when you know "logically" that they may be overblown.

I texted my T last night to cancel my extra appointment for next week and I also called and left message telling her how I was feeling about her forgetting. I didn't want to do that. I would have rather crawled away never to return but she and I have been through enough that I have a hard time keeping stuff from her.

This is her reply by text: " Skysblue, thanks so much for letting me know how my forgetting part of your story made you feel. Of course it was devastating. I am very sorry. I will hold the Friday space next week. You can decide next week if you want it."

And like always when she reaches out to me I feel compelled to 'cry on her shoulder" and so I texted her in return:

"I hate to confess this. I really hate exposing myself even more but I am struggling mightily. I could barely sleep last night. I don't blame you at all but it is hitting me hard. So stupid on my part. I am so embarrassed."

And this is what she texted back: " Skysblue, this is an old, old wound that has been activated by my forgetting. Please keep paying attention to feelings, images, etc. (signed) T"

[unaluna]

Originally Posted by skysblue

stopdog - I am definitely not at that place yet. Hopefully someday.

Do you mean because stopdog is more committed to seeing her T for the long term than you are, as evidenced by her statement that she would plan to allow her T to joke about it some years in the future? THAT place? Ironic?! BTW, good one, stopdog!

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by stopdog

I would rage at the therapist about it for awhile and then I would joke about it and then, possibly years later, allow the therapist to joke about it.

this made me laugh out loud!

[skysblue]

What is ironic is that just last week I told T that I thought we might consider discussing termination and that it might be getting closer to the time I would be finished - that there was not much else to do. How can someone be so clueless like I am? Just because I have a few good days I think I've graduated.

My emotional over-reaction to this is very telling obviously. I have sent T 3 more texts since her last reply.

"It feels like abandonment and I feel like running away. I don't want to see you again. I want to cancel my regular appointment also and pretend I never met you. I can't trust you anymore. My rational brain tells me to settle down and that I'm being stupid with my over-reaction."

"It feels like I've lost my support and I'm on my own now. And I don't know if I can do it alone. So lots of fear mingled in with the hurt."

"I have a strong urge to end therapy. If I never see you again, I can put this out of my mind, right? This flee reaction is prominent in my mind now. So if I cancel next Wednesday we could say it's over, right?"

It's so embarrassing for me to be so over-the-top in my emotions. I come from a family that is very stoic and emotions (except anger - by parents, not me) were not approved of. Being strong, resilient, self sufficient and supremely productive are the values instilled in me. Displaying any weakness or need is shameful.

Like a friend pointed out to me this morning, that I can allow these feelings to be felt and that I'm able to express them is probably tremendous progress for me. I think she's right. In the past I would have stuffed them and never allowed them to see the light of day. I still feel ashamed of them though.