My T has said phone calls are okay, but doesn't generally allow emails, and no texts. He has said repeatedly I can call him whenever, although if I call on a Friday in particular, it may take him several days to get back to me (as in he calls back on the next Monday). He has even discussed with me when he will think that I am call too much -- 5 times a week for more than a few weeks in a row will be too much, for example.

However, I cannot get over the idea that I'm going to call him too much and overwhelm him. I can go months without talking to him between appointments, and then it will seem like I need to call him every week. It's been three weeks since I called him the last time, but it still seems excessive to call him today.

Maybe I should just change my therapy day to the day AFTER marriage counseling. Or change the marriage counseling day.

[unaluna]

Sounds like that thing your husband said kinda triggered you. idk, if the shoe were on the other foot, wouldn't we be supporting your right to say whatever you think is relevant in MT? So - instead of giving in to the urge to run to (and call) your "perfect" H Jon Stewart, why don't you bite the bullet and thank your imperfect real H for bringing up a subject he may have been afraid to talk to you about alone - that's why he brought it up in MT? and actually try to reinvent that r/s? Of course I am going on very limited info here, but it could make a nice short story, no?

[stopdog]

It does not sound to me like you are calling too much or inappropriately. It kind of sounds like an appointment after marriage t might be useful.

But hankster, if I said something about my husband in marriage counseling that he found intensely hurtful because it involved a disclosure of his very private information, would you not also support his right to seek support for his pain and the feeling of being horribly exposed?

My husband admitted last night that what he told MC was probably not relevant to our marital issues, but that he was looking for reasons why he (H) behaves as badly as he does. He says he doesn't understand either why he cannot change his behavior despite knowing how badly it makes me feel. H won't consider any of the reasons *I* have suggested as reasons for his behavior (ie his extremely distant and aloof mother, his physically abusive older brother, his father who was largely absent from his childhood because of "business" that involved relationships with other women). None of those reasons would POSSIBLY be the reason he is struggling his relationship with me. Noooooo. The reason for his behavior is clearly my fault and a result of this private issue of mine that doesn't even cause me to treat him badly.

[WikidPissah]

I do the same thing. I keep track of texts/emails so that there isn't more than a total of two in one month. Some times I save my text because I think "I might be worse another day this month". It's kind of ridiculous. If he says call, then call. Once in 3 weeks does not make you needy, I promise.

MKAC....call him. You have every right to be upset and that's what T's are for. Maybe he can get back to you before the day is out, if you ask him to. I think he brought it up as a juvenile way of taking the heat of him. Example... oh yeah well look what SHE did....

Yeah, Lola, I think that's what he was doing also. He even admitted it hasn't been an issue at all in the last couple of YEARS. And he knows that it is something I am particularly embarrassed about.

MC, by the way, was pretty awesome about telling me how completely normal my "thing" is for abused kids, especially when the abused started when the kid is pre-verbal. MC was good about it, but I still feel horribly exposed.

[unaluna]

So you think your T is never defensive, so that makes him better than H? Or T's defensiveness would somehow be more acceptable to you? Why do you get to analyse your H up one side and down the other, and he doesn't get to say even this one little thing? (Aside from the fact that sure, you're probably better at it.) Why do you even WANT to analyse your H? Just saying, "you act like this because of abuse" does nothing for anybody. It takes years to change how we "do", and we are some pretty highly motivated people here, I think. Defenses are strong. You want him to do what you can't do? Similar to how divorced parents expect their children to get along with new adults in their lives, when the parents couldn't get along with the OLD ones (to put it simplistically, I admit).

And really, how thrilled would you be for H to be running to his hot T after MC? I'm not trying to be unsupportive, I am trying to support you building a bridge to your H; if that's not what you want, that's okay too.

[WikidPissah]

hanksta...wtf? You aren't usually this hostile, are you triggered?

H doesn't have the right to disclose trauma history, ever.

[unaluna]

I don't mean to be hostile. we yell at H's on here who try to control what the wives say in MC. Why isn't it seen as something that bothered H, as his way of bringing something up? Why isn't he given the benefit of the doubt? Mkac can't control the FOO, wants to control the H, thinks T is controllable or doesn't need controlling, or something, maybe he's perfect? - I think that's the pattern here. Only saying this because I see myself so strongly in her ANALYSING the H. That has to be let go of. I wrote about that elsewhere today.

[WikidPissah]

but in all honesty, MKAC's H isn't here for support. MKAC is. And she is hurting from this disclosure. We don't know what or why he said it, but who cares, it hurt her.

It's wrong for her to analyze H, but not wrong for you to analyze her?

hankster, you jump to a lot of conclusions about me. Some of that may be me expressing myself poorly; I don't know. I don't try to analyze my H. He has admitted that he continues to engage in behaviors over and over, despite knowing how deeply hurtful I find those behaviors. I have *suggested* to him possible reasons for that, and suggested that these might be areas he could discuss with his individual therapist, or with MC. I do not reveal his private stuff to MC, nor do I try to tell him that any of these things ARE the reason for his behaviors.

As for my T, he makes mistakes and he has hurt my feelings. When I have told him about his mistakes or my feelings being hurt, he has never reacted in a defensive way, and he has CHANGED his behavior as a result. So in that way, YES, he is perfect in his imperfection. Everyone gets to be imperfect. It's how they react when confronted with their errors that makes all the difference to me.

If my H got on a anonymous forum and said my wife has X, Y and Z issues as a result of childhood physical and sexual abuse, I would not say ANYTHING about it, or try to stop him. I resent him saying, in front of a real person, my wife has X, Y and Z issues as a result of physical and sexual abuse. I get to decide, hankster, who knows that about me in real life.

I have told exactly three people in real life about the thing that my H said to MC yesterday. I was a year into therapy before I told my current T. I told my H about it pretty early on because I love him and didn't want him to get too deep into the relationship without knowing, because I wanted to protect him from the disgusting person I think I am. I wanted to give him an opportunity to get out before he was too attached to make a rational choice. THAT'S how much I loved him. And the reality in my life, hankster, is that he NEVER loved me that much, and still doesn't and is totally willing to throw me under the bus in an attempt to excuse his own conduct. Judge me all the **** you want for turning for support to someone who doesn't ever judge me or use my issues as an excuse for poor conduct on his part.

And for what it's worth, I just read today in an online article that it's estimated that less than 3% of people who experience what I did ever even reveal it to their therapists, let alone their spouses.

[unaluna]

well, sorry. I know you don't think much of my opinion, for whatever reason, idk, that's okay. you kinda talk down to me, and I think you miss more than half of what I write to you. you pick out all the easy stuff. you just repeat what you already wrote. yeah, I got all that the first time. whatever, dude. i'll just go back to not responding to your threads again.

I am not trying to talk down to you, hankster. You often say things in your responses to me that are not accurate to my situation, so I do tend to disregard those statements somewhat. Like analyzing my husband. I do not think that suggesting to him that certain things from his past are affecting, and asking him if he wants to discuss him with his T or ours is analyzing him.

I did read all of what you wrote. I think where we got off track is that I was not asking anyone to condemn my husband for bringing up this issue, although I resent the way in which he did, and the reason he gave for it. What I brought up was whether I was going to make my T sick of me if I turn to him for support in how EXPOSED I feel, and for something of a reality check that my husband may have been trying to help our marriage and not just gratuitously exposing something intensely private for me. Given that my husband has SAID that he doesn't actually think it was all that relevant, I'm trying to wrap my head around the why's of him telling something I never tell, and trying to get a grip on my emotions. Something I think my T could assist with.

I was just asking about how often I should calling him and whether I should think about changing one of the therapy dates. Why are you so ultra support of certain other folks on here, but almost always have something critical to say to me? Some way of dogging on me about my relationship with my husband or my therapist? Seriously, did I do or say something horrible to you that I just don't remember? You can PM me about it if I did, or post about it on here if you feel the need to just get it out publicly.

[unaluna]

again, sorry. I don't know what the problem is; i'm not aware of one, or that I was treating you any differently than I do, say, stopdog or chopin? I thought you and i had similar issues so I speak to you as I do with my T. no, it might not be the question you asked. if you're not open to that, then i'll wait until you are, my choice.

[pbutton]

I don't get it Hankster. Your responses seem out of line. I agree with Wikid that you sound very triggered.

You seem to be attacking MKAC for having shared that her T is attractive. I've seen you say the same type of thing about your own T. Are you worried that you are too dependent upon your T for the "husband" role? Is that why you are so angry? Are you enjoying my random interpretation about you? No?

[unaluna]

I'm fine with your asking. Yes, looks are a trigger for me, because that is ALL that matters to my FOO, those were the "values" passed down, enforced, really. So that is something I work on. Marrying someone who didn't love me enough either, is another issue for me. Having a rejecting abusive mother who preferred another sibling over me, and analysing how that situation could be changed - also my area of expertise. Don't you guys get it? I want mkac to answer my questions so I can get insight into the problems holding ME back. It's like I see her holding 5 keys in her hand and I say, try the blue one. well, really, I don't blame you all for thinking i'm being unsupportive because it looks like i'm just standing on the sidelines and hollering out stuff at random.
of course I care about fairness. I see mkac's H more as a hard nut to crack, so I just ask, what is the point, the use, the good, of putting him down for bringing up something he shouldn't? Like Roseanne said on her sitcom, "Do you think Dan (her tv H) just came out of the box like that?!" ie wonderful. I cut my T a LOT of slack because he is not a computer program, he is a person - that's something I had to learn. Like Dr Phil says, do you want to be right, or do you want to fix this? If mkac doesn't want to fix the marriage, and just wanted hugs for being exposed, well, I misunderstood, and I believe I apologized already. And I think my T is happy with my progress in moving him out of the husband role. This week he cried, he got goosebumps, and he rambled on defensively. wtf does he know? - enough to get the job done. it doesn't have to be perfect.

ETA: Sorry if i'm coming off as cranky. i'll back off.

Originally Posted by hankster

I'm fine with your asking. Yes, looks are a trigger for me, because that is ALL that matters to my FOO, those were the "values" passed down, enforced, really. So that is something I work on. Marrying someone who didn't love me enough either, is another issue for me. Having a rejecting abusive mother who preferred another sibling over me, and analysing how that situation could be changed - also my area of expertise. Don't you guys get it? I want mkac to answer my questions so I can get insight into the problems holding ME back. It's like I see her holding 5 keys in her hand and I say, try the blue one. well, really, I don't blame you all for thinking i'm being unsupportive because it looks like i'm just standing on the sidelines and hollering out stuff at random.
of course I care about fairness. I see mkac's H more as a hard nut to crack, so I just ask, what is the point, the use, the good, of putting him down for bringing up something he shouldn't? Like Roseanne said on her sitcom, "Do you think Dan (her tv H) just came out of the box like that?!" ie wonderful. I cut my T a LOT of slack because he is not a computer program, he is a person - that's something I had to learn. Like Dr Phil says, do you want to be right, or do you want to fix this? If mkac doesn't want to fix the marriage, and just wanted hugs for being exposed, well, I misunderstood, and I believe I apologized already. And I think my T is happy with my progress in moving him out of the husband role. This week he cried, he got goosebumps, and he rambled on defensively. wtf does he know? - enough to get the job done. it doesn't have to be perfect.

Hankster, my husband is a hugely hard nut to crack. I thought that I did answer your question in my response when I said that he and I discussed him bringing it up in therapy and his reasons for doing so. I AM working on fixing this, so I asked him -- didn't attack him, I didn't put him down, but ASKED him nicely -- what the relevance was in what he told MC. He told me he was exploring WHY he keeps repetitively doing very hurtful things. I asked him if he really thought that my abuse issues were relevant to him doing things like constantly arguing with me, completely disregarding what I have to say on a topic,and then when it turns out I was right, saying in a really arrogant tone, "well, I thought . . . " The man LITERALLY had an argument about whether Wednesday to Wednesday was the same as week.

Anyway, I discussed it with him nicely (as opposed to how I am being here), and he was nice and honest enough to admit that HE didn't even think it was relevant. So yeah, I was just maybe just looking for support and hugs and some opinions about how to deal with feeling so horrible and exposed.

At this point, my H doesn't even know I'm upset about him discussing this with MC. He understands that if he's going to 'explore' explanations for his behavior, that we include things that I think are possible explanations as well.

What other question did you have that I didn't answer? Not talking down to you - I just don't know what I'm missing.

[SallyBrown]

MKAC, my H did a very similar thing for a long time -- pulling up issues of mine that I was ashamed of (and, incidentally, couldn't control, very convenient for H) as excuses for his behavior, even when they made way less sense than his own issues. Some were quite low.

We've come a long way since, and wouldn't have gotten there without my T being there for me, letting me call when things were bad, arranging to touch base if I had to do something like deliver an ultimatum. When I finally got married, when H and I were finally able to be the team we always should have been, I knit T a scarf... It wouldn't have happened without him.

I never turned to him because I was a damsel in distress running to a man I found attractive. I went to him because he helped me stand up for myself, helped me navigate my own stuff, and never judged my decision to work things through with H when most would have given up. And he assured me many times that he would not get sick of me as long as he was really helping. I sense you have an equally committed T -- take him at his word, and let him help you be strong and tackle the issue productively with H. T getting sick of me is one of my biggest fears, so I can really empathize.

If your H can find it in him to own his s*** (this may require your being prepared to leave; it did for me), it can get better. We look back on the bad tomes now, and H will say, "I'm so sorry I treated you that way." I am hoping you hear those words someday too; you deserve them

[pbutton]

Someday, when my brain grows up, I want to be smart like SallyBrown.

[Freefall1974]

How did this thread start out so benign and then turn so angry???? Someone should close it before it goes any further south. I cannot understand why people just don't offer support. If you "know" someone and want to attack them then send them a PM. Let the rest of us feel we might be safe here. Please???? I thought this was covered in a very similar way last week.

[WikidPissah]

Curious MKAC...did you call and get the support that you needed?

Originally Posted by WikidPissah

Curious MKAC...did you call and get the support that you needed?

Thanks so much for asking, Wikid. I didn't. I really am afraid of T getting sick of me.

I realized after thinking about it more, that H brought this up with his first therapist, who we also saw for some marriage counseling. So, it is apparently something that either bothers him or concerns him somehow. I didn't like it then either - for the same reason of feeling very exposed. My T did discuss it with me then, so I just tried to remember what he and I discussed then. I exercised until I could hardly move and then went out to dinner with friends. Just trying to stay busy and keep in mind that no one dies from shame or embarrassment.

MKAC, I had something similar this week as I've been in a dip, which my Pdoc and I figured out yesterday might very well be linked to decreasing the dosage slightly of one of my meds. I also got back from a 6 week trip 2 weeks ago and transitions are so tough for me. So, over the last 10 days I've been leaning more on T (sthg that took me a while to learn how to do and I agonized over...). Then on Weds all of a sudden I started to get really anxious that I was asking too much of her (again, maybe some of the anxiety was from decreasing one of my mood stabilizers). So I wrote to her on Thurs and flat out asked her, certain that she'd say yes but also remembering to write that I knew that it was her responsibility to put up boundaries that worked for her. She briefly responded that no, she didn't think so, but she would think some about it before our Friday appt. I was simultaneously relieved and a little nervous for our appt. She really surprised me with her 'soul-searching' (she said with a laugh): No, I wasn't too much and asking for too much. There was one small thing that she asked me to be mindful of - not necessarily change, but be aware that it made a part of her uncomfortable sometimes - that she'd prefer that I not write "I love you" in my emails so often, but she understands the child's need to do this. I really appreciated her honesty with me and though I feared that she'd want to change some things, even if I knew it wouldn't be drastic, I feel that having this exchange strengthened our relationship and me. I guess what I'm trying to say is that having a direct conversation with your T can lead to a better than expected outcome, it's worth a shot. We've talked about this on other threads--learning how to accept what T gives us because he/she wants to without fear that we're asking for too much is a very valuable lesson. Good luck.