Eek! WTF is wrong with my T?

This weekend after posting about my last session, I was determined to apologize for clinging when we hugged. After the past couple of days at work, it went out the window. However, I demonstrated (without even thinking about it) that I learned a lesson by not clinging on when we hugged today. Then again, I really didn't want to hug her after session.

Once I got in her office, she asked if I recognized my CD playing. It was. She said she told the office manager about the CD I made her after I left session and the office manager begged her to leave it there. Strange thing is, the office manager wasn't there. So either she forgot to take it with her (thus a white lie on T's part about being eager to hear it immediately) or the office manager was well-hidden. I didn't even think about this until after session.

I discussed my issues related to the changes at work extensively. I reminded T of the email I sent her last week (subject: Panicking). She said I seemed to be panicking simply out of fear and supposition, not out of anything that is true. She said I've learned a lot of skills to help me get through times like this (true). I also told her that while I didn't have much choice financially, I felt it was bad timing to be going down to one session a week. She said I was just under a lot of stress and that the point of therapy is for it to eventually end. She started talking about how everything was "God's plan" and I tuned out because I was so weary.

When she was done, I asked if I felt I needed twice a week therapy, would I be able to request that. She said yes, it would be available. I then talked about how much progress I've made over the past year; that in the fall of last year, I was at my lowest point in this round of therapy:

I was sitting in my office at work. My boss came back to see what I was doing. I knew he was in my doorway, but I didn't turn to look at him. It was about 4:30 in the afternoon and already pretty dark as the building I work in is surrounded by trees. He finally said, "I worry about people who sit in the dark." I didn't respond. He said, "Chopin, I'm serious, I worry about people who sit in the dark." Still not looking at him, I stuck my left hand out and turned on the light next to me. Realizing I wasn't going to engage him in conversation, he left. Before he came to my office, I was planning how I was going to sui.

I relayed this story for T. I choked up when I did. All she said was, "I remember that."

Okay, for all the "logically minded" folks, you may want to tune out. While I realize feelings aren't facts, I am going to express how I feel here. She stepped on several triggers here. I felt:
1. That she really did not like the CD I made her or it didn't mean that much to her.
2. Like I should never need a reminder about the skills I've learned if I'm in a tight spot.
3. That my issues weren't worth emailing about; and certainly not worth replying to.
4. That she is pushing me to be done with therapy before I'm ready.
5. Dismissed by T the entire session.

Today, I went to my safe place and it was no longer safe. This makes me very sad.

((((Chopin))))

wow. I read the first part of what you said, then your feelings and you are right that logically I don't know how you make the leap from one to the other (I also know I'm reading it from a safe distance unlike you where you are caught up and have all the extra voice and body moments and tone etc to fit in there and the being in the moment). But, knowing my emotional feelings I totally get it I also know it can be really hard getting from fact to feeling and that I do a miserable job of it; just sorry you are left feeling unsafe and stepped on.

Are your feelings letting you know how she stepped? or more THAT she did?

I don't have any great words of wisdom. I just really relate. I've gone to my only safe place once a week for this last month, and it hasn't been safe either. I miss it so much. Four years of safety, gone so quickly.

I really hope this is resolved quickly for you. I think it's clear how much your T cares about you from your past posts. Although I know it's hard to see that when they go and start talking about the end, forgetting or dismissing what feels like important stuff, and so on.

Sounds like you are doing a lot of mind-reading and over-reading into what went on. I didn't get a vibe for any of the 5 on your list from what you wrote.

I find it interesting that you said your T said you "seemed to be panicking simply out of fear and supposition, not out of anything that is true." Kind of sounds exactly like what you are doing right here too.

I think you feel like she's pushing you out of the nest?

You want to feel like it's okay to need her?

Can u tell her what u wrote here?

You, my dear JSG, are on point.

I am actually composing an email that is a balance of logic/feelings that gives her the benefit of the doubt. I'll post it here when I'm done. I really need to go to bed. I might finish it tonight or tomorrow.

That's a big difference for me; in the past, I would have had to finish it.

(((Chopin))),

Your T states this as if she has put a period at the end of your sentence. Panicking "simply" out of fear and supposition, is still panicking. My question then would be, when is a good time to panic? And what has to happen for your 'panic' to be real and not just "simply" panic? To me, her words are invalidating. Instead of invalidating your possible surface material, I wish she had been able to address the underlying fear here, Chopin You deserve that.

How is one "Just" under alot of stress? "Just" curious? You told her your concern about going down to one time a week, and her words, imo, were again, invalidating. To me, it doesn't sound like you are "just" under alot of stress, it sounds like you are having a difficult time going to fewer sessions toward a possible end. That is a COMPLETELY normal reaction to this part of therapy. TOTALLY NORMAL. No "Justs" about it.

Your feelings are valid, Chopin, truly. Therapy in and of itself is difficult, and if you are planning to go to fewer sessions, all of this may be bringing up the same or more material that you have gone over previously. I think when you wrote about her not liking your CD, etc., that you really felt that no matter if you were overthinking, underthinking, hyperthinking, hemithinking, etc.. I suspect (but don't know) that you might be feeling like the fact that she isn't opposing you going to one time a week, that maybe that translates to her not caring? I also heard that you might feel inconsequential, and that you feel she is pushing you toward termination. Correct me if I am wrong. I hope you can talk with her about these fears and I hope she will address them in a way that will help you process them and heal. This is a post that I would have expected to hear from someone going to one day a week, if you are unsure that you are ready for this, it is bound to cause REAL panic and cause you to be under alot of stress (hold the just).

I don't want to come across as bashing your therapist, because from your posts she sounds like she has been very helpful and supportive to you. I have a word issue sometimes, lol. But sometimes one word makes a difference in how we perceive things.

If you are posting exactly what she said, then it does sound like some of the things she said were invalidating. I don't think she meant them to be, I don't think she meant to minimize what you are going through either. I hope you can talk to her about this so you can feel safe again. You are worthy, and you matter, you matter to alot of people here on PC and I suspect irl also. Be kind to yourself, my friend.

I don't think proposing a more neutralized view of reality need necessarily be invalidating.

Becoming more constant with oneself and within the therapy process can tap into old fears, but those feelings are often only remnants of the old fears and not reflective of the current reality. It's perhaps a fleeting reaction, not a psychological reality.

Chopin, forgive me for talking about you in the 3rd person here! (because you know I'm also saying this for you, too!)

Antimatter,

It will be interesting to see how Chopin feels about all of this in hindsight.

I'm basing what I'm saying strictly on Chopin's shared perspective on her T, in which her T seems pretty empathic and well-trained. I doubt she's lost those qualities in the last week. I trust that she's seeing Chopin where she is realistically which may be differently from where Chopin saw herself in that moment. Perhaps she wanted to align her response with Chopin's capable and empowered self, since that's the part that is facing new challenges at work.

Perfect matching in mood of response to communication isn't realistic or necessarily beneficial all the time. It's rather reminiscent of how we talk about interaction between a baby and Mother, but not how we talk about interactions between adults.

Handling the interaction as you've refashioned it may be appropriate in some situations, but not necessarily for all, or at all times. I don't think that means T is somehow deficient or lacking.

Sometimes a T chooses to validate a part of the personality that isn't reflected in the mood of the moment because it can strengthen that part of the personality and bring it to the forefront. It's in the skill of the T to be able to discern when that's appropriate, and when it isn't.

Chopin, I don't know what the truth is, whether your T was invalidating or not, but I know you're hurting because of how you felt in response to her words. That is true no matter if she meant it or not. My T never intended to hurt me, but she did. Maybe you over react and agonize over every word like I do. Your T cares a lot for you. I think you know that. I hope she validates your feelings in an email or at your next session.

((Chopin))
Feelings are important.

I remember my most recent "bad" session. T was, in fact, reaching out to me, but I felt she was reaching down to me. My pride was activated and I pushed her away.

When I get in a paranoid place, all my fears feel true. I need to remember:

Paranoia is my enemy. T is my friend.

Not the other way around.

PS:

I agree that you need to confront her with your suspicions. That's the way to clear the air. I don't recommend email, though.

That sounds just the way you describe it at the end of your post. Like one of those sessions where we keep trying to connect, and keep getting responded to with neutrality, or mild validation, or a kind of distracted 'uh-huh'. At least it feels that way. And it feels frustrating and like a loss - a loss of our perceptions about the relationship or of the connection for that one session.

Anyway, it doesn't feel good and I'm sorry you are feeling sad Can you allow yourself some room for this to evolve after talking to T about it?

.

(((chopin))) I know it's hard for you right now. You have big big stuff going on, your life is upside down, your sleep isn't balanced, your schedule is off with H working nights...soon to end woot....med adjustments, pain management, work restructuring, dealing with office politics....etc etc etc....

I am logically minded, so I will basically shut it, I realize feelings aren't logical. One thing to think about though....
Sometimes I have to rephrase things like "she triggered me" to "I was triggered by something she said". Semantics? probably....but just remember the triggering wasn't an aggressive act by her.

oh...and one more

You can talk about me in the third person. It becomes a problem when I start talking about myself in the third person!

It felt as if she was "body-snatched" yesterday. I'm willing to admit that she may have been acting out of confidence that "you can do it", but there was definitely an element of distraction, which correlates to your comment below.

Here's the funny thing about all this; I can be one of the most logical and intellectualizing people on this forum if I allow myself to do so. However, T hates when I do this. I know T's are humans with flaws and the same propensity to make mistakes as others. I think the way she handled yesterday was simply an unintentioned misstep on her part, which was probably exacerbated by her distraction/standoffishness. She has been willing and able to communicate my strengths and new-found skills while still being kind. She seemed unable to do so yesterday. I believe something else may be going on in her life (I do know her oldest stepson-my age-is headed for Afghanistan next month with what she believes is inadequate training in situational awareness; he's a Navy nurse with his only experiences in Naval hospitals being reassigned as a Marine medic in the field).

They are important because they can tell us a great deal about our current emotional state. However, I believe they are not facts. Our emotional lenses and filters are clouded by our wounds, hurts, and life experiences (that sounded good didn't it...those were my own words ).

This is really good to remember. For me, the mantra would be: "Fear and paranoia are my enemies; T is my friend."

Wiki, darlin': thank you. When I woke up and saw your reply, I thought to myself, "This, this is what I'm looking for...from the forum, T, H, friends, etc." You are logically-minded, but you took all my current life issues (even remembering some I didn't mention here from the couch) into consideration, offered a very helpful piece of advice (plus I like words and semantics), and gave me a hug.

Feelings aren't facts. They are not logical. I believe they tell us things we need to know about ourselves. T did say I have a lot going on right now. I do; everything you mentioned above plus the holidays.

You are correct in saying "I am triggered by things she said." She didn't intentionally trigger me. I really believe she was distracted yesterday. Anyway thanks again for your thoughtful reply.

((((((((((((((Chopin))))))))) i do not know what to say, im kinda shock at how your t was acting. Im always here for you.

If I had gone to session thinking upfront that I needed to atone (shame evoking for me), I'd have been extra sensitive to T's responses to me that day. Not saying that I would have been looking for things to "prove" I was no good, but it might have been in that neighborhood.

Sorry, I must be not grasping something about this situation. Your session where you gave her the CD was last week. Couldn't she have both wanted to hear it right away but the other person asked her to leave it and she agreed to do that? I guess I would have been like (and this is a stretch, of course, as I'm Jewish so the whole xmas thing flies right by me) "okay, I'll leave it here at the office. I can hear it there."

Couple of things here. One is that I don't think you have the set up where T is supposed to respond to every email you write, so a non-reply isn't a dismiss, right?

The second is that it seems to me that her perception of your panicking was insightful. I know that my T projects calmness and his confidence in my ability to handle anything, and even more annoyingly, sometimes tells me that what I perceive as backsliding is really progress. It does make me reflexively want to plunge sharp objects between his eyes, though.

For me, I know there is an edge to a dynamic where I say "this is hard for me, all this [stress]" and T responds with how well I am doing despite it all or suggests that I can handle it. The edge is that if I'm not falling apart anymore, then maybe I don't need to be in T and maybe he'll terminate me because I am "well." It's almost like I don't "need" him!

But I do in retrospect really appreciate those times when T projects the "you are okay" message to my challenging times. He doesn't do it falsely, but backs up his perception with either about my growth or skills acquisition or his belief about how my response is really a good thing. Because that's where I'm trying to get to-- to be okay no matter what happens in my life-- and largely that relates to me feeling that I'll be okay even in the midst of a struggle that pushes all my buttons.

I don't think I would like it if he said, "oh yes, this is your hot button issue, again, in a different format. Watch out, you're going to freak out and be a mess because of it." Instead, he communicates that I can manage my response to this button in a skilled way. This really works for me.

Pema Chodron has a new book (this year anyway, I just finished it) where she advocates meditation in the charnel grounds in Tibet. The charnel grounds (if you don't know) are the burial grounds in Tibet-- where the ground is frozen most of the year, so they don't bury people. They chop up the bodies and the birds come and mostly pick things clean, although not even vultures are without standards. The grounds sound kind of grim, with the remnants left over and it sounds like pretty much like a very un-peaceful and calm place, exactly the opposite of where one would choose to meditate. And that's really her point, that there is incredible value and a sense of accomplishment in being able to meditate in that place.

I think that therapy is a lot like visiting the charnel grounds of our lives, where the leftovers of our traumatic and negative life experiences live. We progress by picking the bones clean, and we have to visit those places over and over until we are comfortable despite being in a very grim place.

But I also imagine the charnel grounds, though the closest I have gotten to that part of the world is southeast asia, as having a sort of openness, vista, and with the natural beauty surrounding it. It's not just stray eyeballs and bits of bones laying around. And I think that's what happens as therapy progresses-- when you deal with the gory leftovers, you gradually look around and see how much openness and possibility and beauty that is there. Seeing the context helps us cope with the uncomfortableness of the grim setting itself.

There is enormous comfort in having T there as we visit the charnel grounds of our lives. Sometimes I think that most of my therapy these days is me showing him the leftover bits and pieces, the things I have not yet been able to use in my life, and he's there to witness as I talk about how ugly and horrible it is. And then I realize that I'm doing okay even in the midst of it, and he's there to point that out, because I don't always see it, or feel it, or believe it.

Well, I know you specifically chose her because of the religious bent to her therapy, so G-d is going to come up. I think it is kinda a sign of your growth that you are tuning this out, but that's just agnostic me. Again, this seems to me like T is projecting that you can handle this stress, without needing to see her 2x a week. And you know what, I think she's right, from what I've seen you do here.

So I wonder if she was following your lead and reinforcing your own message to you, that you have been doing great.

To me, this is the perfect response, as it is reflective and honoring of your progress. That you could recall this story with some emotion attached to it (not always easy for you, I think).

I sense that things are shifting in perspective with you and your approach to T. When you make changes and take risks, you might find yourself back in your charnel grounds. You look around and it is an uncomfortable place, but there is a lot to be said for finding comfort and beauty there.

Perhaps.

Also perhaps. She has a right to change her mind. She just talked at length twice about wanting to hear it right away, so I was surprised.

It wasn't the non-reply that actually bothered me. I brought it up to explain what was going on. I was okay with it until she told me why she didn't. It was the explanation that bothered me.

She may be correct regarding the panicking, but she was not projecting confidence nor calmness. She was projecting distractiveness and nervousness.

This isn't necessarily the case with me. I still with a lot of self-worth issues. So the "end of therapy" discussion triggers me in the self-worth area; because T and I both know I am not done, so I tend to go to the place that she is either tired of me or I don't deserve full healing.

Like I said, I don't mind being reminded of how far I've come. In fact, I felt I needed to bring it up to show her that what she has been doing lately has helped me tremendously. I haven't always been thrilled with what she said, but she has usually has done so with compassion and gentleness that were not present yesterday.

I love this. I like Chodron. I respect the beliefs of all because I believe there are many paths.

I may disagree with some of this, but as always, I appreciate your point of view. Thank you.

You are very brave and considerate.

I wouldn't have taken so much advice so calmly!

Why not? I can agree to disagree with folks. Doesn't make either one of us right or wrong, it's simply a different way of thinking. That's what I look for from the forum. I may not like the advice when I first read it, so I come back to it sometimes when I am in a better frame of mind so I can hear what another has to say. The hearing and considering is most important to me.

Did you intend to make this a private message but posted instead?

Let me be clear that I am not upset about it, but I do want to let you know that this feels disrespectful to me and to the time, effort, and thoughtfulness that I put into responding to Chopin.

And I never gave her any advice. I told her how things were for me and how I saw things, and there isn't anything wrong with that.

I am a bit baffled by this, CE. Could you explain? I didn't really see the post Chopin was replying to as GIVING advice. I thought the poster was just offering another way of looking at things, another perspective. Chopin disagreed with some of the points in that perspective, but said so really nicely. So she was considerate in being polite and tactful with her disagreement (as she usually is), but brave? Just because the poster saw things differently does not mean she was giving advice or somehow attacking Chopin such that Chopin would NEED to be brave. I just don't understand, I guess.

ETA: Sorry to jump in without reading the rest of the posts. I guess Anne and Chopin already covered this.

My 2 cents - CE is talking about himself, just as he so plainly stated. He's right. It's a good insight. I didn't see that he was trying to cause trouble or in denial about anything or being snide. Just acknowledging he couldn't take it so well in the past and complimenting Chopin.

The part I didn't understand, hankster, is take WHAT so well?