[Asiablue]

My therapy felt stagnant for a little while, think my therapist felt it too. Then there was a major rupture, which is still being processed. I went to therapy to resolve reoccurring depression and in 18months, i feel i have done that, i've had no depression for the past 7 months or so. But something new has came up. I am no longer numb and depressed but instead feeling all sorts of new things, like anger, sadness, despair, regret.. and the ups and downs are hard to bear.

I am grieving. Grieving for my broken childhood. Grieving for the fact i can never get that time back, there is no do-over. I'll never have the mother i needed, and the pain of it is immense. Right now i just randomly burst into tears. Sometimes angry tears, some time tears of utter defeat. Sad that i am me, and no one ever wanted to be my parent. I am unloveable.

I don't know how to grieve, i don't know how to heal from it, i feel stuck in sadness. I need to find acceptance for the past but literally step by step, how do i do that?
My therapist says i need to find acceptance and once i have that i'll have peace. But HOW? Saying that to me is like saying "all you have to do is walk thru that door" but the door has a mathematical equation that i just don't understand.

Asia, I once told my T that when he talking about grieving and acceptance, it felt to me as if he were telling me to pick up something off the floor ten feet behind me, without backing, turning around, or bending over. He said, "Good to know." So, I don't have any good answers, although, I will say that as time has progressed and he and I address more of my childhood stuff, the anger and the pain have eased off. Still there, but not as intense. Maybe it's just a matter of time?

[Sannah]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I am grieving. Grieving for my broken childhood. Grieving for the fact i can never get that time back, there is no do-over. I'll never have the mother i needed, and the pain of it is immense.

Good work, this is part of the journey to heal.

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Sad that i am me, and no one ever wanted to be my parent. I am unloveable.

Maybe this is the acceptance part? Accepting what really happened. You were not parented correctly because there was something wrong with you. You weren't parented correctly because your parents had issues.

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I don't know how to grieve, i don't know how to heal from it, i feel stuck in sadness. I need to find acceptance for the past but literally step by step, how do i do that?

Grieving is a part all by itself. When you have finished this step then you can start to heal.

I have no words of wisdom Asia. How to grieve and accept the fact that no one wanted the burden of raising me are challenges I face as well. I don't blame me and you can't blame you. We did not get to choose our parents so our up bringing was left to chance. One positive things is that we survived and we are here now and people can love us after we learn to love ourselves, so I hear.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by Sannah

Good work, this is part of the journey to heal.


Maybe this is the acceptance part? Accepting what really happened. You were not parented correctly because there was something wrong with you. You weren't parented correctly because your parents had issues.


Grieving is a part all by itself. When you have finished this step then you can start to heal.

I feel like i'm on the precipice of this huge canyon of grief and i'm scared of it. I need my T more than ever, yet she is withdrawing more and more from me, no more emails, telling me in no uncertain terms she'll never be anything more to me that a T, a professional not a mother, etc ouch!

i feel like i might drown in sadness.

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I feel like i'm on the precipice of this huge canyon of grief and i'm scared of it. I need my T more than ever, yet she is withdrawing more and more from me, no more emails, telling me in no uncertain terms she'll never be anything more to me that a T, a professional not a mother, etc ouch!

i feel like i might drown in sadness.

I so get this..... and I am so very sorry you are having to deal with this. On a positive note it is nice that she is making clear boundaries instead of letting things get all messy and then telling you the cold hard truth. My xT did the same to me and it hurt me to the core of my soul to hear her tell me she couldn't be my mom but it was true and I needed to here that to keep me grounded.

[Crescent Moon]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I don't know how to grieve, i don't know how to heal from it, i feel stuck in sadness. I need to find acceptance for the past but literally step by step, how do i do that?

I think there's something about being able to talk about it - all of it - the injustice of it - etc - to the same therapist over and over as much as you need to.. that eventually takes the sting out of it. Sure doesn't happen overnight, but having someone to witness your pain, to validate the crappiness of it, reduces its potency over time.

There was a particularly traumatic set of experiences over a two year period that had me in so much pain that I just cried all the time in therapy. My therapist, after a while, got concerned that I wasn't seeming to get over it. It dominated my therapy. When I realized that, I tried to put a lid on it. Then the pain interfered with my real (outside of therapy) life. I retreated deep in my cave and shut down. I'll never forget the day that my therapist said "Crescent, from this day forward here's what I want you to do: Save all that pain and bring it here. If you feel it out there between sessions, try to set it aside, because I want you to save it for here when you're with me. If you need to, you can talk about it every second of every session from now on, until you don't need to. I just don't want you to feel that pain 'out there.'" Man, that was amazing. And I did exactly that. Here I thought she was sick of hearing about it, and I got a golden ticket invitation to dump all that pain with her every time I saw her. After a while, it subsided. And then she pointed out that it had been months since I talked about that subject, And now, I can remember it, but it causes no pain.

So talk about it. As much as you need to. That spreads it out on the table, kind of diluting it.

[Crescent Moon]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I feel like i'm on the precipice of this huge canyon of grief and i'm scared of it. I need my T more than ever, yet she is withdrawing more and more from me, no more emails, telling me in no uncertain terms she'll never be anything more to me that a T, a professional not a mother, etc ouch!

i feel like i might drown in sadness.

You might want to play with the idea that you might need a therapist with a different orientation. Someone who is willing to really be "in" it with you. I think it's called 'supportive' therapy.

You shouldn't walk away from session feeling more alone. You should walk away feeling lighter. If that's not happening on a *most* of the time basis, then this therapist's orientation/philosophy etc. may not be a good fit for you.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by Crescent Moon

I think there's something about being able to talk about it - all of it - the injustice of it - etc - to the same therapist over and over as much as you need to.. that eventually takes the sting out of it. Sure doesn't happen overnight, but having someone to witness your pain, to validate the crappiness of it, reduces its potency over time.

There was a particularly traumatic set of experiences over a two year period that had me in so much pain that I just cried all the time in therapy. My therapist, after a while, got concerned that I wasn't seeming to get over it. It dominated my therapy. When I realized that, I tried to put a lid on it. Then the pain interfered with my real (outside of therapy) life. I retreated deep in my cave and shut down. I'll never forget the day that my therapist said "Crescent, from this day forward here's what I want you to do: Save all that pain and bring it here. If you feel it out there between sessions, try to set it aside, because I want you to save it for here when you're with me. If you need to, you can talk about it every second of every session from now on, until you don't need to. I just don't want you to feel that pain 'out there.'" Man, that was amazing. And I did exactly that. Here I thought she was sick of hearing about it, and I got a golden ticket invitation to dump all that pain with her every time I saw her. After a while, it subsided. And then she pointed out that it had been months since I talked about that subject, And now, I can remember it, but it causes no pain.

So talk about it. As much as you need to. That spreads it out on the table, kind of diluting it.

Originally Posted by Crescent Moon

You might want to play with the idea that you might need a therapist with a different orientation. Someone who is willing to really be "in" it with you. I think it's called 'supportive' therapy.

You shouldn't walk away from session feeling more alone. You should walk away feeling lighter. If that's not happening on a *most* of the time basis, then this therapist's orientation/philosophy etc. may not be a good fit for you.

Can i borrow yours CM? Yours sounds awesome.

I am waiting to start with a new T who does emdr and somatic therapy. Just wating for a space to be freed up. But with my current T who has been amazing all the way thru is who i put in the mothering role, because it was easier to pretend that i had someone to fill that role rather than face the truth that actually, no i don't and won't ever. It hurts. I feel rejected by her. Like the idea of being in that role must be vomit inducing to her. I know i'm being unreasonable and stupid but my inner child is heartbroken.

My T this week called taking away the emails and putting in clearer boundaries "tough-love". It does feel tough but it doesn't feel like love. How can she not understand how this feels to me?

[struggling2]

oh Twin .....we really are twins. im in the exact same boat as you. the grief and the sadness over not having a mom. its like pot that is about to boil over and trying to put a lid on it to stop it but inevitably its going to overflow and spill out all over the place anyways. i feel for you, i really do. i have maternalized my T as well......im so aware that she cannot be my mom....a lot of times that awareness makes me pull away from her. its almost as if the good stuff you can get is just a tease of the whole of what you cant have.
its so so so so hard. i wish i could change it for you and make it go away.
you and i both know that is not going to happen. just have to trudge forward. you are so brave and so strong....you can do it! im here anytime...pm away!

[Crescent Moon]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Can i borrow yours CM? Yours sounds awesome.

I am waiting to start with a new T who does emdr and somatic therapy. Just wating for a space to be freed up. But with my current T who has been amazing all the way thru is who i put in the mothering role, because it was easier to pretend that i had someone to fill that role rather than face the truth that actually, no i don't and won't ever. It hurts. I feel rejected by her. Like the idea of being in that role must be vomit inducing to her. I know i'm being unreasonable and stupid but my inner child is heartbroken.

My T this week called taking away the emails and putting in clearer boundaries "tough-love". It does feel tough but it doesn't feel like love. How can she not understand how this feels to me?

That sounds incredibly painful. I can't imagine my therapist doing that to me. Unbelievable. It's not you Asia. She just might not have had the training to effectively deal with transference.

Mine *wanted* me to put her in that role. I resisted, until it snuck in on me when I wasn't looking . Then I found it so healing, and I would have been devastated if I sensed it made her want to vomit. She seems to be acutely attuned to when I regress, even ever-so-slightly. She will step in and do the smallest, most discrete, but potent things that make me feel like a treasured daughter. (And mind you, she's only a few years older than me - but it probably helps that she's probably 6 inches taller ).

Don't know if you read the post where I told about me spiraling into a deep depression where I really shut down for several months. As I was starting to come out of it, we talked one session about our relationship (always makes me cringe). She pulled out her phone and googled "The Runaway Bunny" and read it to me. Then she elaborated on how she thought I was like that runaway bunny sometimes, and she wanted me to know that she would always find me where I was, and stay with me. And I know she's talking therapeutically. I mean I would never think she'd pop up in my real life or anything. But when I'm in session with her, or even between sessions if she senses I'm in crisis, she is wholly there. All the emotional intimacy of it all has been my healing salve. You deserve that kind of experience. Really.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by struggling2

oh Twin .....we really are twins. im in the exact same boat as you. the grief and the sadness over not having a mom. its like pot that is about to boil over and trying to put a lid on it to stop it but inevitably its going to overflow and spill out all over the place anyways. i feel for you, i really do. i have maternalized my T as well......im so aware that she cannot be my mom....a lot of times that awareness makes me pull away from her. its almost as if the good stuff you can get is just a tease of the whole of what you cant have.
its so so so so hard. i wish i could change it for you and make it go away.
you and i both know that is not going to happen. just have to trudge forward. you are so brave and so strong....you can do it! im here anytime...pm away!

i miss you struggling where ya been?

I just wonder, how can our T's ever fully relate and understand and truly feel how painful this is for us if they've never been thru it themselves?

I just know the way my T talks sometimes about acceptance and grief that she has no concept of what it's like to be unmothered, she has no clue how it permeates your entire soul, and that nothing can fill it. She speaks of getting love from other people, like my husband, friends, etc but it's not about that type of love is it? Until you've experienced "good enough mothering" from someone, whether that's your own mother or a Therapist, until you've been allowed to grow up under the protective eye of a good enough mother, then that black hole inside can never be filled. And if you don't find someone willing to be that good enough mother then you are doomed. Looks like i might be doomed.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by Crescent Moon

That sounds incredibly painful. I can't imagine my therapist doing that to me. Unbelievable. It's not you Asia. She just might not have had the training to effectively deal with transference.

Mine *wanted* me to put her in that role. I resisted, until it snuck in on me when I wasn't looking . Then I found it so healing, and I would have been devastated if I sensed it made her want to vomit. She seems to be acutely attuned to when I regress, even ever-so-slightly. She will step in and do the smallest, most discrete, but potent things that make me feel like a treasured daughter. (And mind you, she's only a few years older than me - but it probably helps that she's probably 6 inches taller ).

Don't know if you read the post where I told about me spiraling into a deep depression where I really shut down for several months. As I was starting to come out of it, we talked one session about our relationship (always makes me cringe). She pulled out her phone and googled "The Runaway Bunny" and read it to me. Then she elaborated on how she thought I was like that runaway bunny sometimes, and she wanted me to know that she would always find me where I was, and stay with me. And I know she's talking therapeutically. I mean I would never think she'd pop up in my real life or anything. But when I'm in session with her, or even between sessions if she senses I'm in crisis, she is wholly there. All the emotional intimacy of it all has been my healing salve. You deserve that kind of experience. Really.

What kind of orientation is she CM? She sounds so attuned, it must feel very healing. I'm glad you found that.

[CantExplain]

I find that crying is an enormous comfort.

[Crescent Moon]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

What kind of orientation is she CM? She sounds so attuned, it must feel very healing. I'm glad you found that.

Family Systems and Supportive therapy. I think it was her passion for Family Systems that was behind some of those conversations early in therapy where she told me she thought I had "primary" attachment trauma. It was after that when she started bringing up her belief that I needed to attach to her. I had no idea what she was talking about, but it sounded icky to me at the time. I think there are other orientations that also value transference.

[Nightlight]

I'm in a similar stage and I relate, although it's not because the depression has lifted. I think it's because I've realised all the thing I'm not and will never be to my therapist. I always knew in my head, but now because of the ruptures that have happened between us, I really realise how easy she would be to lose. She doesn't seem to understand why all the grief and worry is coming up now, but I thought I was going in for my last 50 minute session very suddenly, so I don't see how it would not be coming up right now. My T has supported my attachment and helped me use it to my benefit, but now she has said things that are along the lines of what you've heard from your T, I think. She's told me she wouldn't save me in a life threatening situation (like a parent would for a child). Er, thanks T, nice. She's said "You're not my baby"...yes, also, got that T, thanks. And she doesn't seem to understand that even letting go when I'm "ready" is never going to be okay. I really don't think she gets what it is like to have this sort of care from just one person, to really feel attached, and then to lose that person so completely. Scary. I'm not really sure how it ever becomes okay. I only know how much it hurts right now. She also said this week "you need friends" but friends aren't going to fill this particular need.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Nightlight

She doesn't seem to understand why all the grief and worry is coming up now, but I thought I was going in for my last 50 minute session very suddenly, so I don't see how it would not be coming up right now.

Surely a T, of all people, must realise that old pain can resurface at any time, and especially when therapy is coming to an end. Isn't that what termination sessions are all about?

Originally Posted by Nightlight

She's told me she wouldn't save me in a life threatening situation (like a parent would for a child).

I'm appalled! That's inhuman!

[Nightlight]

I'm not sure what's going on with T lately, but thanks

[feralkittymom]

My experience was similar to CM's (though paternal rather than maternal). And I also was resistant to the experience. It wasn't articulated in the beginning, but at moments that could strengthen or weaken the placement of those needs in him, my T would encourage me to give them over.

I wasn't looking for a parent because to me parents were dangerous. It was my T who saw that I needed to repair my experience through re-parenting.

It also makes me wonder if this doesn't go back to the needs/wants issue. That needs must be provided for therapeutically, but wants are viewed as distortions and so resisted?

This makes me wonder if there isn't something in the dynamic that encourages Ts to reach out to those of us who retreat from our needs, and to retreat from and institute tougher boundaries for those of us who actively seek to satisfy our wants for Ts in parental roles.

[Asiablue]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

My experience was similar to CM's (though paternal rather than maternal). And I also was resistant to the experience. It wasn't articulated in the beginning, but at moments that could strengthen or weaken the placement of those needs in him, my T would encourage me to give them over.

I wasn't looking for a parent because to me parents were dangerous. It was my T who saw that I needed to repair my experience through re-parenting.

It also makes me wonder if this doesn't go back to the needs/wants issue. That needs must be provided for therapeutically, but wants are viewed as distortions and so resisted?

This makes me wonder if there isn't something in the dynamic that encourages Ts to reach out to those of us who retreat from our needs, and to retreat from and institute tougher boundaries for those of us who actively seek to satisfy our wants for Ts in parental roles.

I did retreat from my needs. Needing people is dangerous because it makes me vulnerable. I don't need anyone in life. Until now, until my T told me she'd be there to fill in any needs i missed out on, until she made me trust her, until she was there so consistently that i got complacent in that i never expected her to withdraw from me. She told me that there are people who are trustworthy. She included herself in that. And now she did the very thing i trusted she wouldn't. And now i have no defences to cope with it.
Tough-love my a s s she stuffed up big time here.

[feralkittymom]

It sounds like she handled it badly.

It is necessary to give over the reins slowly to the client as a nudge to shift to self-care; but it has to be on-going and subtle and with kindness--and with a safety net. It sounds like whatever she did/ did not do, your perception is that she's been untrustworthy, and she needs to know that.

[Anne2.0]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Until you've experienced "good enough mothering" from someone, whether that's your own mother or a Therapist, until you've been allowed to grow up under the protective eye of a good enough mother, then that black hole inside can never be filled. And if you don't find someone willing to be that good enough mother then you are doomed. Looks like i might be doomed.

I don't believe this, either from my own personal experience or anything I've read about healing. On the contrary, the things I'm familiar with about healing or transformation or whatever label you want to put on it are very clear, that you can fill that "black hole" by consciously chosen, deliberate changes that you make in yourself and your life.

It does resonate with me, though, that sense of being doomed, forever damaged and broken, feeling like I had to have someone else do the magic for me and once they did, everything would be different. It's a way of thinking that gave me permission to take a back seat to my own life, and kept me from many years of peaceful, contented living. For me, it's just not about what anyone else does or fails to do. It's about what I do for myself, what I create through my mindful and deliberate choices towards the life I want and the way I want to be.

That's just my experience.

[Crescent Moon]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

I did retreat from my needs. Needing people is dangerous because it makes me vulnerable. I don't need anyone in life.

Yes. This is what I learned too. I got myself set up to never be vulnerable to 'needing' anyone, because that was the most dangerous place for me to be.

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Until now, until my T told me she'd be there to fill in any needs i missed out on, until she made me trust her, until she was there so consistently that i got complacent in that i never expected her to withdraw from me. She told me that there are people who are trustworthy. She included herself in that. And now she did the very thing i trusted she wouldn't. And now i have no defences to cope with it.
Tough-love my a s s she stuffed up big time here.

Listen Asia.. I had a Therapist #1 that I call my Toxic-T. He was wholly and totally incapable of managing his own self. He made a big deal out of me trusting him, etc. - but then he had no clue what to do with my vulnerability, and his counter-therapeutic mishandling of me turned into a huge re-traumatizing situation that nearly undid me. I thought I would die. I wanted to just die. The pain was unbearable and unending. Then I somehow accidentally landed in a visit with my current therapist. I saw them both at the same time for about six months, neither of them knowing about the other. It was the contrast between how my current therapist handled me versus my toxic-T that finally enabled me to extract myself from that destructive "therapeutic" relationship.

I'd encourage you to go out there and interview some therapists. You need to find one who understands and likes working with people who have early attachment figure damage.. FOO damage. Someone who is really into the benefits of transference. A therapist cannot *become* your mother or father, but I am evidence that a therapist can indeed become an attachment figure that is strong and stable enough to, over time, provide "corrective" experiences that overwrite the damaged tapes that interfere with a client's life. It's an "as-if" kind of thing. My therapist is not my 24-7 "Mommie." But she sure as hell steps in from time to time to "be" that for me in the context of therapy - and it has transformed my ability to function. You deserve to get what you need.

[Asiablue]

I'm on waiting list to be seen by someone else. Different orientation. But understandably i am scared to get close again.
I will be asking lots of questions of this new one that is for sure.

My current T isn't toxic tho, she does care, she's just screwed up big-time.

[CantExplain]

Originally Posted by Asiablue

Until you've experienced "good enough mothering" from someone, whether that's your own mother or a Therapist, until you've been allowed to grow up under the protective eye of a good enough mother, then that black hole inside can never be filled. And if you don't find someone willing to be that good enough mother then you are doomed. Looks like i might be doomed.

I can relate to this, and on the whole I agree.