[Patoman04]

Ok I really need to get this out. There may be triggers so if you're not up for it you don't have to read.

So my past few sessions have been very up and down with T. One week I'll go in with a smile on my face and tell T that I'm trying new things to keep the bad thoughts off of my mind and the next I'm sitting there with my head down sobbing. Well last week was a bigger roller coaster than ever. I went in content with myself and came out making a bit of a scene in front of the waiting room. Since then things have just gotten bad. I cannot for the life of me stop thinking about it. I even ended up having nightmares about it a few nights ago. My next session is in a couple weeks after my vacation with my family (which I'm not looking forward to) Ever since a couple nights ago things have gotten weird inside my head. I've started plotting a session to play out a certain way. I know it'll work too because I've sorta done it before.

Anyways, my plan is scaring me. At first I came up with the idea to go in and just sit in the corner of the floor curled up into a ball. For a while it seemed like a good idea, but then my mind started to escalate this behavior. I started thinking of what it would be like if I went in and started SI with a razor right in front of her. Oh my gosh.... I dont know what is happening to me. I know what her response would be too. She would try talking me out of it and eventually threaten to call the police if I didn't stop. (don't read on if u cant handle it because it gets worse)

Sitting in my bed yesterday I came up with the idea that I would allow her to threaten me with calling the police and then put the razor to my throat.... oh my god.... I can't believe I'm writing this. I would start yelling at her telling her to put the phone down and stay back. I know at this point she would probably lose her cool. And if she doesn't, I though to myself that I'd take it a step farther and start cutting my throat. My point being, I want her to lose her cool. I want to put her in the hotseat and I have no idea why. At first I thought to myself that maybe I just want to test her to see if I can really trust her. But then I realized, who on earth is that sick and twisted?!

Maybe I am just doing it for the attention??? I dunno. I know I am an attention *****, probably because I've been deprived of attention as a child. The worst thing is, now my mind has got it set that I am actually going to do this. The voices I hear keep telling me to tear T apart emotionally to see what she really is. I love my T and I don't want to do this to her, but I feel like it is already going to happen. Maybe this is just me being upset because she made me commit to not cut. There are so many emotions that have cropped up since I made that stupid promise. I feel like I am getting desperate at this point.

One thing I know about myself is that I am very good at ripping people apart emotionally through words and actions. I never do it purposely, but dammit I can tear apart anyone. I am the only one to make my own father cry in the last 20 years, and he is a very emotionally sound person. I really don't know what to do at this point. My heart and mind are set on making this happen with T. The worst part is that I understand the consequences that could happen and still want to do it. I have the option of calling, texting and e-mailing T anytime I need to but I cannot for the life of me bring myself to do any of those. I need help. And I'm not going back to the hospital for help because that place is worse than death itself.

What should I do? Should I just let T see me at my absolute worst if it means I will be able to determine how much I can trust her? I am just dreading this next session. Any help from you guys would be amazing right now. I just feel so helpless!!!!

[lemon80s]

I'm in a totally different place emotionally than you, so I feel like maybe I can't empathize enough. But I'm still gonna try and be helpfull -

You are in a lot of pain and you need something from your T. You need her to see something or to understand something and to then act in a certain way. The best way to reach this is to "just ask for it.". Believe me when I say I know how hard that is. I was just sitting here shaking like something silly because I sent my T an e-mail to ask for something.

You are in therapy to learn and to grow, not to sabotage yourself. Sent her this post if you have to. Just copy-paste, click send and then go curl up in a corner and see what happens.

Goodluck.

Are you fantasizing a "test" to prove your T cares? It would be much simpler, fairer, and honest to just ask. Maybe you should just print off this post and let your T read what you are fantsizing about to open up communication about this.

[Victoria'smom]

make a list of the way she has shown you that you can trust her. whenever you think this read the list again and try to add to it. make sure you bring no sharp objects into the office because legally that could cause tons of issues. tell her next session that you want her to see you at your worst but you know it would scare her and what could you do to convey toughs feelings. remember you said that you don't want to go back to the hospital but that would be exactly what your forcing her into to make you do. not only that up but most likely you would need to change therapists.

you're not helpless you're just confused.

[growlycat]

I know all about testing therapists myself... Printing out this thread and showing it to her is a good way to let her know how badly you feel. Curling up in a ball in her office is ok and communicates the pain as long as you can keep your actions contained to that. Agreed that bringing sharp objects may take this "out of her hands" because legally and ethicly she has to act. This will make her seem uncaring, even if she really really does care.

You both deserve a chance to work it though..."just ask" is a great way to go, but very hard. I've acted out too many times to count.

[SkinnySoul]

Originally Posted by Patoman04

Maybe this is just me being upset because she made me commit to not cut. There are so many emotions that have cropped up since I made that stupid promise

IMO your "bad" self (the one who self-harms and wants you to suffer) "hates" her now because of that promise and because of how difficult it is to keep it. That's why you want to cut yourself in front of her, it's sort of a punishment. "See? I will cut myself to death, I CAN and I WILL and you are obliged to witness this! You wont stop me!"

I know quitting self-harm is hard as hell, but take it one step at a time.
Try just to reduce cutting at first and once you succeed, you can try to stop completely.

Don't pressure yourself too hard. She already knows that you might not be able to keep your promise, she's not gonna be mad at you for this. She only wants you to try.

[0w6c379]

You cannot trust T will not report you and since you want to stay out of the hospital, it's not a good idea to bring a razor into her office. Why not just tell her you're having a hard time? I don't know of any test that will allow you to find out how much you can trust her. Perhaps the best test is time? Tell her little by little what you're going through and see if her response makes you feel better. If you're T sticks by you over the long haul, maybe then you'll know how much you can trust her. BTW why do you want to rip her apart emotionally? What did she do to you?

[A Red Panda]

I'm sorry to hear that you are feeling so down! That's a lot of stress finally commiting yourself to stopping the self-harm.

It sounds like you want T to feel the same way you do - powerless and scared and helpless. It sounds like you want to put yourself into a position above your T so that you can feel in control again?

I have a lot of trust issues, so I'm going to take this as my own way of dealing with control: I always feel like the people who have any control whatsoever over me? Those are the people who are going to break my trust. So if I don't let them have any control over me, then they can't break my trust because I'm already not giving them my trust. And if I have gave them some trust? Well, if I'm in control then they're having to trust me and I can clearly break their trust just as easily as they can mine.

I would guess that you're feeling something similar towards your T right now: you've given her some control (by promising to her that you're going to start working on ending the self-harm) and that that scares you. So you're thinking of ways to take away that control from T and in fact traumatize her.

Now, I don't believe that you're heartless. If you were heartless, you wouldn't self-harm because you wouldn't care. So consider very closely how you would be affecting your T, as a person. Not as a T. You need to think of her as a person, with emotions and feelings and troubles of her own. What sort of an impact would you have on her if you went in there with a razor and threatened to hurt yourself?

You could make her career a lot more difficult. She might need councelling herself from that. You would scare her, and make her worry about her own safety. I don't know if you work, but no one needs the stress of not even feeling safe at work. And yes, she would have every right to feel scared for her own safety even if you were only threatening to hurt yourself - the fact would be that you brought a weapon into her space.

Remember that your T is doing her job, and that her job IS to be someone you can trust. Her job IS to have a bit of control. Her job is to teach you to have that control yourself - she has no intentions of keeping it forever.

Talk to your T about how you're feeling. She doesn't need a performance to understand how scared you are. She is responsive to words; that is what she's trained for!

All you will accomplish if you were to act through on those fantasies is this: 1) you will hurt your T as a person, potentially scarring her for life 2) you will no longer get to see that T and will have to start all over with someone new, who will likely know about what you did 3) you will be put into the hospital and 4) you will possibly be charged for having a weapon and threatening harm.

You will not make T trust you. You will not get to see if you can trust T. You will not gain control over anyone or anything. You will not be helping yourself.

You should try printing out what you wrote above and taking that in to T. She'll understand that you're scared and need some way to have more faith in her, and that you want to feel more on an equal standing in regards to how things are going.

[mixedup_emotions]

You've gotten a lot of good feedback here already. It seems that your body is trying to communicate with you and T. It's ok to have the fantasies, but it's within your power to control your behavior. You say you know that you can call, email, etc. but can't bring yourself to do it. It'd be worthwhile to try to understand why you feel you can't do it. What emotions come up for you when you contemplate talking to T about this and not going through with it?

Also, the key here, I believe, is that you need to do it IN SPITE of how you're feeling. Doing what's uncomfortable has the potential to lead to a lot of growth.

[tinyrabbit]

Rather than acting on your fantasies, could you describe them to your T? I think it could be very helpful to have a conversation about what you imagined and why.

You're not sick or twisted. You're a person who is in pain and you need something from your T, as others have said. I think there's a tendency for people to describe attention, and people wanting attention, as something negative, e.g. phrases like "attention-seeking" or "attention *****".

I was talking to my T about this today - about how people see needing attention as something bad - and he agreed. He said if you're walking down the street and someone stabs you in the leg, people will hear you scream but they might not be able to see that you've been stabbed, or that you're hurting.

I think the pain you're in is kind of like that. And I think it will be much more healing and helpful to you if you discuss your fantasies with your T, rather than acting on them. I think you should print this post off and show it to her.

It really is okay to have fantasies. They can be very helpful sources of information. But I do find your post rather worrying, and I would urge you to please reach out to your T for support.

[Patoman04]

Thank you everyone for your responses. After thinking about it more I feel like something has made me angry at her. As to what exactly that is, well it might have to do with what CheshireCatGrin was saying about control. When I think about it, I have never been so good with people who have power/ control over me. It makes me very uneasy. I feel the desire right now to have some control over her. (wow i sound ridiculous!!!) Regardless, I don't feel like I can communicate it through words without screaming at her and acting out in some dramatic fashion. How do I get my T to see me at my absolute worst without doing anything dangerous? Last time I checked, doing dangerous things is exactly what ended me up in therapy in the first place. She told me a couple months ago that she was waiting for me to have "a very bad session" as if she expected it. Maybe that is what got me into this mindset.

Another thing that gets me upset is that she tells me she has never felt what I feel, but she understands it. She then goes on to say that I need to connect with people who went through what I am going through. Well that made me really mad. I don't want anything to do with what I'm going through so why the hell would I connect with people who have felt the same?

This all comes together to make the point that I cannot seem to get her to understand. As if the only way that she will learn is through my stupid actions. And I know you may be thinking "Why is Pato sticking with this T???" Well I've been to other T's in the past and none of them came close to this one in terms of desire to help me. Maybe if somehow I can get her to understand without SI, I could get past this. But words aren't working.

Originally Posted by Michelle25

BTW why do you want to rip her apart emotionally? What did she do to you?

I don't want to do that to her, but it seems to happen to everyone in my life. I've lost all of my friends because I get upset and start yelling at them, knowing exactly how to hurt them in the worst ways through words. I am just afraid that I will accidentally do it to her since I have some anger built up

Rather than worry about having control over another person (your T), control the ONLY person you truly have the ability to control--yourself--by making the healthy decision to share your initial post with your T as a means to communicating your thinking and fears and anger in a productive and safe way. You CAN communicate safely through your written words (you just did so with us), without resorting to destructive behavior that is apparently an old and self-defeating and self-destructive pattern you have used previously with others. If you want things to turn out differently, you are going to need to make a very conscious decision not to do things the same old destructive way.

[tinyrabbit]

You don't sound ridiculous. I have issues with authority figures, power and control as well.

Originally Posted by Patoman04

Regardless, I don't feel like I can communicate it through words without screaming at her and acting out in some dramatic fashion.

I think it's absolutely fine if you need to scream at her.

Originally Posted by Patoman04

I've lost all of my friends because I get upset and start yelling at them, knowing exactly how to hurt them in the worst ways through words. I am just afraid that I will accidentally do it to her since I have some anger built up

But this is your T. Not a friend. It's a very different relationship. You can get upset and yell at her without losing her. You should hear some of the things I've yelled at my T (see also emailed, left on his voicemail...)

[A Red Panda]

How about you print things in this thread out and take it in to T? you can include some of our posts too if it would help you explain things to her. It would be a way to initiate the conversation, and you could also point out "I think I felt like what this person said, but it's different because....".

And you aren't ridiculous for these things. I have control issues as well. It's hard to trust people when you've been hurt and let down a lot.

[PorcupineTree]

Hi! I can relate to what you said...for having similar thoughts that makes me feel completely pathetic.

I don't think I can bring you much help but maybe you will feel less lonely about being like that. And I suppose I could use some help too, from anyone who can help.

Personnaly, after my T told me that she wouldn't be able to see me forever because she’s doing only brief therapy, I ended up planning ways to make her understand I would not stand it, that she couldn't terminate me that fast just after opening myself to her. In my plans I’d tell her that I can't leave and then I'd choke myself in front of her..or I'd tell her I need to go to the bathroom, take all the sleeping pills I have, get back inside and hope to get dizzy enough that she sees that something is wrong with me. Then I'd leave….(and hope that she worries about me...couldn't be more pathetic )

Anyway, the next session I told briefly my T about these "fantasies". I'm glad I did. I think that way she could understand what it meant to me, without having to put her in an uncomfortable position. So I think you should try yo talk about it or write about it if it's easier.

I need to listen to my advice though . Because although I've confessed about this once to her, I'm still making other plans... it seems that I need to make sure that she understands me...that she sees how intense it can be for me...

I guess I need to test her in some ways. I feel ashamed of it but as long as I'm not putting her in danger I suppose it's okay...Fortunately or not, in real life I've never had the guts to do anything. In fact I feel numb in her company, so I don’t show much emotion and don’t do much! After a session I am usually angry at myself for being so under control and so boring with her while I feel so intense outside her office....and then I fear that I must be a pain in the *** for being so boring.

But now, thinking about what everyone said here, I must agree that this is not a good thing to do and that words may be better... But why is it so hard to say these kinds of things? Apart from being pathetic and childish (I’m speaking for myself )...Maybe it’s hard because it is about something that really matters and being vulnerable. I think for me it's about seeing if she REALLY cares, or maybe about making her care…I don't know. I've come to the conclusion that I need her to care and to love me. I want her either to love me or hate me...I can't accept that I'm just in between, that she is indifferent to me, that I'm just another patient. I know that is what I am, but thinking that she is indifferent to me is unbearable.

[Favorite Jeans]

You know I think the need to be held and soothed in the middle of an awful, unattractive, messy screaming tantrum can persist beyond early childhood. Especially if you didnt get the comfort and holding and reassurance you needed as a small child. You crave that kind of comfort and unconditional love so much and you want someone calm and stable and authoritative to make it okay while you are at your most freaked out. You need to show them just how very, very distraught you are and you want them to witness your pain and have it be okay. That's the test: you see me losing it and threatening to hurt myself, can you still give me love and comfort?
But acting out this way will inevitably leave you feeling worse and feeling betrayed by your T. Because while T can probably handle all those horrible messy feelings, she cannot gently take the razor from you, scoop you up and snuggle you and tell you that it's okay to be upset and she's there for you and it will be okay and please tell her with your words not your hands how you are feeling. You can grow and heal and feel more stable but you will need to mourn the fact that you can't get that exact kind of firm, physical, gentle, soothing love that parents need to give their little children.
There are some ways in which your T can provide you with the "parenting" you need and others in which, sadly, she cannot. It'll just have to be enough to talk about it and cry and curl up into a ball and tell her how awful you feel. And you know, if you stick with it and work on it and commit to your wellness and keep thinking about who you eventually want to be--it probably will be enough.

[Perna]

Your actions really only affect you; because someone feels a strong emotion, that does not destroy them or show that emotions are not to be felt and expressed because they can destroy you. I think you wholly misunderstand relationships, feelings, and the effect of your actions on others and how they work in the real world.

I would not act out as you are planning but would print out this thread and have your T read it instead.

[tinyrabbit]

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

You know I think the need to be held and soothed in the middle of an awful, unattractive, messy screaming tantrum can persist beyond early childhood. Especially if you didnt get the comfort and holding and reassurance you needed as a small child. You crave that kind of comfort and unconditional love so much and you want someone calm and stable and authoritative to make it okay while you are at your most freaked out. You need to show them just how very, very distraught you are and you want them to witness your pain and have it be okay.

Thank you for expressing something I've experienced lately.

Originally Posted by Favorite Jeans

It'll just have to be enough to talk about it and cry and curl up into a ball and tell her how awful you feel. And you know, if you stick with it and work on it and commit to your wellness and keep thinking about who you eventually want to be--it probably will be enough.

This. Your T could surprise you