How does a client's suicide affect their T?

Has she ever actually screamed at you outside? When she has been visible outside (not from the safety of the house)? I ask because I always carried the fear with me, but in fact, my mother never behaved that way where anyone could see or hear her.

I think you're right that you don't need to worry about how you'll use your license; right now, the power is in getting it.

And I do think it's all about control. It's not about you (I know how difficult it is to believe in that), it's about her need to control--for her reasons.

I have memories of her yelling at me outside but not where people could absolutely see her. I remember her hurting me on like the 12th floor of a hotel at night outside on this balcony over the streets below. I remember seeing police cars zooming about down there and wishing one of them would save me.

Part of me feels like she's saying that because she feels like I will wreak a car. Part of me agrees with that. But I know that doesn't mean it will happen even if she thinks that.

Yes that is what I meant: crying well beyond the normal. It sounds like you did that in an effort to be heard. So did I.

The 12th floor balcony! How terrifying!

You have good ideas on how to cope and practical experience with them. Hang in there! -- and give thought to trying feralkittymom's suggestions as well. I can't recall my mother screaming at me in public either.

Memories from childhood? Any recent times? I think it's worth a shot. How near are your neighbors? Do you have any relationship with them?

I think the idea of a car accident is an excuse--it's just a mask for the control.

Yeah it was scary enough that I try to never think about it. I was 6.

I don't even know how many are recent or not. She yells at me so much that it all runs together. I do remember her yelling at me in the backyard a lot. The thing is that if I were to sit in the backyard, she'd see me and come out and **** next to me and start just talking crap about me again. She has this way of saying really cruel things in the most polite and sincere voice to make you believe her. I don't think if they heard her they would even realize what she was doing to me. They live very close but the houses are big and I don't know how much they can hear. She wouldn't yell at me if we were literally in public. She'd make faces at me and try to scare me, but she'd never yell at me the way that she does in this house. I don't know any of the neighbors.

It sounds like being outside with earpods and passive ignoring is about all you can do. It will probably make her angrier at first, but I suspect that the passive resistance of literally not hearing her will eventually get her to give up a bit.

And then, never go home again.

I really really want to never come back here again, but I know that isn't possible at this point. I know that I'll have to come back here again someday.

I'm worried that even if I did manage to become financially stable, I would still be unable to break away from her. I am scared to tell her that I don't want to speak to her again. I'd probably do it via snail mail to be the most safe, but I'm worried that she'd find a way to sue me or something. Technically, my dad wrote the checks to buy my instruments. None of them are insured or anything because individually they aren't horribly expensive and if I managed to find all of the receipts for them, there would technically be no evidence that they were the ones that paid for them. But I'd have to delete the records from my dad's email and I can't get into that.

I don't know if they can do that. They don't care about anything more than money, even if it isn't a horrifically huge amount. If I were to die tomorrow, my mom's reaction would be that she was angry that I put her in the situation of being locked into paying rent on my apartment. Being upset that I was gone would be a secondary response. There is nothing more valuable to them than money and I do know that if I tried to break away, they would come after me probably using money because that's how they are controlling me now. The only thing they could do would be to come after my horns and I can't handle that. I can't lose them. That is my trade. if I don't have them, not only would my professional life come to a halt but I would lose my entire identity, self worth and sense of purpose. I'd have to have at least enough money to buy the instruments from them if they attacked me. We're not talking about an absolutely ungodly amount of money, but it would take me forever to earn/raise enough money to get them back.

Thinking about actually breaking away from them makes me feel so trapped and afraid that I don't know why I'm bothering with fighting to stay alive. I feel like I can't escape and if I have to live under their control for the rest of my life, then I don't want to live at all.

I know that I will figure out how to do it. Well, I don't know that I will, but I know I have to hold on for the hope I have that I will figure this out.

I really think you're catastrophizing their control because of your fear. And that is perfectly understandable. But don't assume that the scale of your feelings reflects objective reality. Your assessment of their control is being fueled by very powerful childhood fears. Of course, the possibility of all sorts of reactions is there, but the liklihood of those actions happening is very different, and not dependent upon your current feelings.

You don't need your parents' permission to not speak to them. That's your fear talking.

Try to step outside of your feelings for now. Put them in a box and distract yourself.

Get through the next days, and then work with your T on a plan to become financially and emotionally separate from your parents. You can do this.

Thank you. You're probably right. I'm just assuming the worst possible situation out of fear. I don't want them to catch me off guard.

I don't understand why I am so afraid of them. It was never that severe. I never needed medical attention after it. Maybe just some ice for the bruises but I wasn't near death or anything like that. I shouldn't be so afraid. It really wasn't that bad and I don't know why I'm overreacting like this and why I am living on edge getting set off by the smallest things or why I'm physically shaking just because I heard someone walk across the room upstairs.

I really wish I had more ativan. I need a break from this.

Maybe just some ice for the bruises

Anyone laying hands on a child sufficient to cause bruises is abusing that child. Period.

Bruises from my mother were not unusual for me. But there was one time, during an instance of abuse, when my father "manhandled" me in anger and caused multiple bruises over most of my body. I was 9, and took some of my mother's make-up to try to hide them--not successfully. But no one said a word about it.

That incident kept coming back over several years in therapy, revisiting it again and again. It took that long for it to lose its power and pain for me. It was one incident.

What you suffered was real. And you will need to come to terms with that with the help of your T. But it happened when you were a child. You were young, you were small, you literally couldn't survive without your parents.

Those feelings don't respect the boundaries of time and space, and I think the more they are unacknowledged, the more loudly they demand to be noticed.

The reality is that you are now older, you are bigger, and you have the power of survival now. It doesn't mean you can't feel hurt and scared, but you are no longer defenseless.

Try to tell yourself that you will protect yourself--even if you don't believe that you can and don't know what you would do. Reassure yourself that your feelings are very real, but from the past. Today, you can protect yourself. Keep repeating it--don't worry about the how.

I am much bigger. My mom couldn't hurt me if she wanted to. I'm much bigger and stronger than her.

I know you're right. I know that bruising a kid is abuse. Sometimes, I feel like maybe I just bruise easily so I start hitting myself to see. I don't think I bruise super easily but I'm still not convinced. I don't know why I can't just accept that I was abused and move on with my life.

But I am about 4-5 inches taller than her and I weigh more too. Trying to hurt me now would be stupid on her part. I don't know why I'm still scared

I'm glad to hear that you're bigger than your mother!

When you have enough of the right support, you will feel safe enough to be able to face the abuse you suffered. And then, slowly, you'll be able to let it go.

Right now, your strength is tied up with minimizing and rationalizing to protect yourself. And that's OK. But it's a brittle strength. Eventually, you'll find a deeper emotional strength by cultivating kindness toward yourself, perhaps as you learn to trust in the kindness of others, like your T.

For now, the feelings are strong, but they are your childhood feelings. Use your adult awareness to reassure yourself. It's OK to have the feelings--you can't and probably shouldn't silence them--but just also reassure yourself that they represent the past, not now. Now you can protect yourself.

I know you're right again. I can face it better when I'm at school with my T and the family that I made for myself. I just wish I could face it now because it's much more pressing here.

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First, let me say I always chuckle to myself when they refer to patients of a mental illness as "clients". I guess they feel it is less provocative? Secondly, at least you have friends. My BPD and Bipolar has caused me not to have any, and it is, indeed, lonely. Something you said bothers me, however. You said, "I'm not even sure I'm worth the trouble of saving" truly saddens me. You are a child of God and, consequently, of course you are worth saving. The problem is what you must do in order to feel "worthy" yourself. Take it from one who knows. Yes, I'm on meds, but find it difficult to go to a therapist because, as you undoubtedly know, we sufferers will do almost anything to avoid facing our deepest feelings of shameful acts we feel we have committed. Of course, in my case there is every legitimate reason to find most, if not all, my past actions worthy -- there's that word again -- of calling them and knowing there is good and real reason to call them "shameful."

I think it's too much to expect of yourself to face stuff like this when you're in crisis and in the painful environment. Treading water is great!

Patients/clients- I don't like calling them clients either, but I also don't like calling them patients.

I'm happy that you believe in a god and can find peace and personal value in your religion. I respect your right to believe what you do, but personally, I don't believe there is a god for me to be a child of. Other people have said similar things like saying that all human beings are worth saving. I guess I know they (and you) are right. I would tell anyone else that they are worth saving just by being alive. I just for whatever reason can't always say that to myself.

I'm a little confused at your final statement. Do you mean that there are valid reasons to view your past actions as both good and shameful?

Treading water is great until you get too tired and drown from exhaustion. I'm still kicking though. I just need to make it 23 more days.

Have you thought about just standing up for yourself? Next time she starts hollering at you , walk out of the room. Just get up and leave...lock yourself in the bathroom, tell her to save her breathe, as your well aware of how you suck, you have weight issues and your lazy. Sarcasm at its finest , I had a younger sister who would just agree with my parents when they started in on her... I think it took the sting out and because they didn't get a rise from her they stopped jacking with her... Of course they had plenty of other kids to choose from and they weren't as passive. It takes 2 to interact, so when she starts in... Just leave, walk outside...do the lalalal thing. You could also just tell her to stop, you've heard enough.

I do this all the time. If try to defend myself or say anything too obviously sarcastic, all it does is make the conversation louder, more aggressive, and increases the chance of violence. If I tell her to stop, that is a nightmare. "You do NOT tell your mother to stop. I am your mother and you have to listen to me" blah blah blah. If I just agree, she just continues and if I leave, she follows me. She'll keep talking through the bathroom door or sit by it waiting for me to come out.

I just have to appear as busy as possible doing the things she finds acceptable or hope she has something to nag my siblings about.

Violent? The moment it looked like it would turn violent, is when I would tell her that I hope she enjoyed government issued bracket, because if she lays a finger on you your calling the cops. Your not a little kid and that would be assault. It sounds like hell in your house and I'd be sleeping at the Salvation Army or couch surfing or visiting an aunt or something. You are not helpless and you are not a child. I'm beggining to wonder if you really DONT wanna leave and instead would prefer to get sympathy from others surrounding your plight. Not trying to be mean here, but seriously, if you have 2 legs then your mobile, car or no car and screw the lack of sidewalks. It's your mental health. But, if your story is true and this woman is on you like white on rice all day long and your physically larger then her then call BS on this crap. Hell call the university and talk to there counselors and see if they can't provide dorm housing for you until the semester starts. There is always a way out as an adult, it may not be the most comfortable way or,the easiest way but there is a way, unless she has you physically restrained in that basement,then pack your stuff and tell her to get bent.

Was that really necessary, Lola? If there's always a way out, what's your excuse? Not so easy, is it? I don't see how dumping on a kid half your age is helpful. Not cool.

Excuse for what? I am not subjecting myself to daily ridicule and abuse and I wasn't trying to be mean . I was just being honest. They level of mental abuse she is describing is atrocious and apparently making her suicidal. Every suggestion that has been given to her has been met with resistance and or a changing of the subject. I think it's a legitamate question. Ill have you know that her current situation sounds a lot like mine was at her age minus the physical and sexual stuff and I DID GET OUT. I took my parents to court and got imancipated and then got a drivers license and slept on a love seat at a friends house for my entire senior yr of Highschool! So sorry if I'm not as touchy feely as everyone else. I do wish her luck and hate to see her in this situation, but where there is a will there is a way! I'm not bagging on her , I'm just pointing out that she isn't as helpless as she thinks she is.

First of all, I hate the Salvation Army and we don’t have a local one here, none of my close friends live in this location, I have absolutely no family members that I am remotely close to physically or emotionally. The only place I could go is over 600 miles from here, including if I called my school and they magically had dorm housing (they don’t because there is only one dorm and it houses 100 people). Doing any of that would probably push my mom to cut me off. I am not ready to be financially independent at this moment in time. Maybe I’ll work harder on becoming so during the school year, but I can’t do anything that would potentially jeopardize my ability to get back to school. Once I am there, then I can figure out how to handle this situation to prevent it from happening again.

No, I don’t want to be here and yes, I do want to leave. If I could see absolutely anything I could do to escape being here without completely ruining myself financially and thus impeding my ability to get home, I would be long gone. I can’t do that at this moment. I am working on trying to figure out how to not come back here. I’ve already arranged that I’m not coming back for thanksgiving and I’m already looking for work for over winter break. I found one of my old acquaintances from high school and convinced her to physically drive me to my best friend from high school's work so I could get her to respond to me and help me get out of this house. Don’t accuse me of not trying.

If she did physically attack me, there is little to no warning and I know I would respond by either running away or beating the crap out of her. I don’t think I would have time to threaten her with calling the cops. Plus, it actually hasn’t gotten close to being that bad for about two weeks. Most of this is in my head because I’m afraid of it happening. She also works over 40 hours a week and keeps herself busy with endless errands and various other house jobs. I have very little idea when she will decide that I am the target of the day. She’s not on me 24/7. I only talk about the things that bother me/scare me on here because talking about the other stuff would just be me talking the games I’m playing, the music I’m working on, the political/moral issues I’m thinking about, or just talking about feeling nothing. None of that is interesting.

I don’t want anyone’s sympathy. Sympathy is nothing to me. At a minimum, I’d prefer empathy so I can feel slightly less alone in the universe. But certainly not sympathy. When I think of sympathy, I imagine feeling sorry for a family that is losing their child to cancer and is helpless to fight it. I am not helpless to fight this and I am actively fighting it even if you can’t see it online. She gets in my face and I’ll get in hers. I’ll scream right back at her, I’ll intimidate her and get her to leave me alone because I am bigger and I can scare her. It hurts me to do that for some reason. Every time I have to get in her face and scare her into leaving me alone, I spend the rest of the night crying and I don’t know why. If I just start doing that all the time, it makes the entire house even more hostile than it already is because screaming at her only results in more screaming. I only do that when I feel like she is being aggressive and I absolutely have to protect myself. If she’s just sitting there talking to me in a calm voice even if she is saying the most demeaning things ever, it’s so much better than turning the whole house into a constant screaming match. Even though my mom won’t be responsible enough to prevent that kind of fighting from happening in front of my 12 year old brother, I am also an adult and it takes two to fight. I’m not just going to fly off the handle and act like an animal at the drop of the hat. I have to pick and choose when I will fight with her and to be honest, a lot of it is a waste of time because I know there is nothing I can say to change her mind.

Easy, guys, easy. Lola is triggered and frustrated and that makes sense. FKM, you are handling this very, very well and I applaud you for coming to try to help and offer support. Some of us who have struggled through this ourselves made efforts and then some of us became frustrated. Lola's perception of the situation has some validity when EVERY suggestion gets shot down, and it appeared to me that she is trying to emphasize that there are CHOICES always. One of my main triggers for depression was feeling trapped and like I had no choices. My T, Lola, pbutton, Wikid and others have figuratively speaking thumped me upside the head several times by continuing to point out my choices so I don't feel trapped and just lapse into depression.

Faced with a very similar situation to growlithing's, I faced my parents on the abuse when I was a senior in high school and told them I would leave if they continued to hit me. Period. The physical abuse stopped that day. In college, decided I would be poor and / or die rather than continue to capitulate to my mother and allow her to control me. Not everyone makes that choice. If it bugs me that growlithing is making the choice to stay in that situation, then I decided I needed to stop responding. It appeared to me that Lola is trying to continue to emphasize to growlithing that this really is a CHOICE she is making to stay, though. Lola is continuing to try to show growlithing there are choices to try to keep growlithing from staying in the pit of despair and trying to get her to see her options and is obviously still trying to help by continuing to respond, even if her frustration is starting to show through. At least that was my impression.

Ok then you stay for a reason and the bad has to be taken with the good. 23 days and her working full time should help you tread water. I'm sure it will be over soon , in the mean time make yourself available to babysit or something on evenings and weekends. This too shall pass.