[growlithing]

I fooled myself really badly. I had let myself really believe in my head that my T is my mother. I would tell myself when I wasn’t with her that life is hard, but everything is going to be okay because I’ll see her in the morning (this is a partial program). She’ll take care of me and comfort me and take away all my pain. I don’t have to mourn the loss of the mother I never had because my T is here and she can be my mother.

Well, I suddenly snapped out of that delusion I’ve been having for the past month. I had a really rough morning and she asked me to come talk to her in the kitchen to make sure I was alright. I asked her if she had more time to formally talk to me later in the day and she told me “you need to take care of yourself because I can’t take care of you for you. No one can do that. I’m not even your T. I’m technically only your case manager until after you discharge on Friday. At that point, I can officially be your T. I’ve been playing both roles but my time is supposed to be allocated to people who don’t have discharge plans and you’re all set with that”. I immediately broke out into tears. She came to my side and told me everything will be alright and that she isn’t abandoning me. It’s just unhealthy for me to rely on her as much as I’ve been relying on her.

I know that it’s unhealthy. I’ve always known that. I just wanted to believe so badly that I finally had a mother that I let myself push the boundaries as much as possible. But she already has a daughter and a real life outside of her job. She has a family to go home to and I can never be a part of that. I’m just someone she works with at her job. I’m never going to have a mother and I feel all alone in the universe. I haven’t stopped crying yet.

I don't know whether to be upset with myself for allowing myself to blur the lines in my mind, her for letting it get that far by trying to be both my T and my case manager, or my biological mother for completely failing me. I'm just upset with the world.

[~EnlightenMe~]

(((((((Growlithing)))))))))),
I think it is okay for you to accept yourself exactly as you are right now. You are going through a process, a painful one albeit, but you will make it through. Keep posting and keep us updated! Take care.

[ready2makenice]

Awwwwww I'm soooo sorry you're hurting right now!!

Ouch to what she said,I can honestly say I know that pain. I too went through a similar problem and lines were cross (doesn't help being BPD) and a T with lose boundaries.

I know its hard to hear but she is right,she cannot be your mother,nobody can be your mother except your own. I know it's hard to swallow and you're hurting lots right now. I know it feels unbearable and I too felt as though my T was abandoning me.

You will be okay!

This could be a lesson for yourself,to strengthen your own boundaries,not just with T but with people in general. I know I struggled with boundaries in my every day life also but you are dealing with the emotions of it all and I know it hurts really badly but you'll get through it. I promise you will

Keep us updated on how you're doing and if you ever want to talk PM me

[Daeva]

I just wanted to stop in and show support/offer support. I know how this feels and just

She's doing what's best for you and from what I hear you understand that. I also am glad with the way she handled it reassuring you she won't abandon you.

I'm so sorry you're hurting right now, it's perfectly understandable.

[sweepy62]

Sorry growly you have my support 110 percent .

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk - now Free

[purplemystery]

Even if we intellectually know someone is not our mother, it can be hard to "know" this emotionally.

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by purplemystery

Even if we intellectually know someone is not our mother, it can be hard to "know" this emotionally.

My other T thinks there is a HUGE gap between my intellectual understanding and my emotional understanding. Like I can logically see things and talk myself into thinking rationally but I don't feel any better emotionally.

[Daeva]

This is called Intellectualization, it's a defense mechanism.

Intellectiualization – Warding off unacceptable feelings and impulses by thinking about them rather than experiencing them.

[feralkittymom]

I'm sorry you're hurting, Growli. Try to remember that what you have with her is the best of her: Moms have their own needs, but when she's with you, she's there for you only. I think she said this now so that you'd face this pain before you leave for break. She's taking care of you.

Something else to consider: we all face the pain of realizing that our parents can't meet all our needs--it's just that most of us are so young when it happens that we don't remember.

You haven't lost her as a Mother: you can hold her in your mind and heart as your "Mother archetype." She can be available to you in your mind and heart whenever you need her. This belief can co-exist with the realistic knowledge that she isn't your Mother in the flesh. The intensity and power and comfort of this belief can be life-changing, and it can never be taken away from you. It's far more powerful than any "RL" connection. Let yourself nurture the connection and feel the comfort.

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by Daeva

This is called Intellectualization, it's a defense mechanism.

Intellectiualization – Warding off unacceptable feelings and impulses by thinking about them rather than experiencing them.

Yeah I'm familiar with this term. The situation is a little bit more than that though.

For example, I intellectually deeply understand that the abuse I experienced was in no way my fault. It doesn't devalue me or say anything about who I am. It only says things about the people who abused me. However, I still feel guilty, worthless, and disgusting.

[rainbow8]

I always say that my Ts have shattered my dreams, over and over. I understand the pain you're feeling. I totally understand my T's role intellectually, but my emotional mind doesn't ever get it. I so badly want my T to be someone she can't be for me, that logic goes completely out the window!

When you feel the way you do, you're probably thinking in black and white. That's what I do. My T is either everything to me, or she's nothing to me. That kind of thinking makes me miserable. There is a middle ground, though. Your T cares deeply for you, so she is moving you toward health, not dependence. She's there for you more than you think. I know it's hard to accept that, but please don't be hard on yourself. It's not your fault, just like it's not my fault. Something is missing that we need, and our T's fill that need. It's hard to give that up, but like I said above, there IS a middle ground that can be satisfying as well.

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

I'm sorry you're hurting, Growli. Try to remember that what you have with her is the best of her: Moms have their own needs, but when she's with you, she's there for you only. I think she said this now so that you'd face this pain before you leave for break. She's taking care of you.

Something else to consider: we all face the pain of realizing that our parents can't meet all our needs--it's just that most of us are so young when it happens that we don't remember.

You haven't lost her as a Mother: you can hold her in your mind and heart as your "Mother archetype." She can be available to you in your mind and heart whenever you need her. This belief can co-exist with the realistic knowledge that she isn't your Mother in the flesh. The intensity and power and comfort of this belief can be life-changing, and it can never be taken away from you. It's far more powerful than any "RL" connection. Let yourself nurture the connection and feel the comfort.

She told me this now because she doesn't want to be handling my emotions for me and then suddenly cut that off and put me back in the abusive environment for three weeks.

My parents never met any of my needs beyond just making sure I was fed and clothed. I never expected them to do anything but hurt me but I always felt this hole in my heart that they should have filled. I didn't cry out for my mom when I was scared because my mom didn't take my fears away. She was the one scaring me. Please don't try to relate my feeling of loss to a "normal" parent situation because it is not. It has nothing in common with that because it is by nature the absence of parents. My T tells me this all the time. No parent can fully take care of their child. Well I was never even partially taken care of so how on earth am I supposed to feel better about that?

People can access feeling loved and nurtured by their parents internally. They grew up with that and had years and years of time to experience being totally taken care of and then leaning how to take care of themselves slowly. I have had two months with my T. Granted, it was a lot of hours with her, but it is not nearly the same. How am I supposed to access something deep within that I don't have? People say "you gotta learn". How? "You got to learn to love yourself". How? How can I know how to love myself when the love I experienced growing up was strictly conditional if at all?

[EDIT] just wanted to clarify that I am not at all angry at FKM. I'm just seriously frustrated with an abstract idea I don't understand and really probably don't want to understand.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by growlithing

She told me this now because she doesn't want to be handling my emotions for me and then suddenly cut that off and put me back in the abusive environment for three weeks.

Exactly this.

My parents never met any of my needs beyond just making sure I was fed and clothed. I never expected them to do anything but hurt me but I always felt this hole in my heart that they should have filled. I didn't cry out for my mom when I was scared because my mom didn't take my fears away. She was the one scaring me. Please don't try to relate my feeling of loss to a "normal" parent situation because it is not. It has nothing in common with that because it is by nature the absence of parents. My T tells me this all the time. No parent can fully take care of their child. Well I was never even partially taken care of so how on earth am I supposed to feel better about that?

You can't feel better about it; it's a loss that needs to be grieved. But regardless of what was true before a loss, the reaction to the loss is much the same for everyone. We may bring different tools with us to meet the loss, but the pain of the loss itself is no different. I'm not minimizing your pain, just suggesting that everyone suffers pain, and there's no reason for you to burden yourself with the additional pain of hopelessness about your feelings.

People can access feeling loved and nurtured by their parents internally. They grew up with that and had years and years of time to experience being totally taken care of and then leaning how to take care of themselves slowly. I have had two months with my T. Granted, it was a lot of hours with her, but it is not nearly the same. How am I supposed to access something deep within that I don't have? People say "you gotta learn". How? "You got to learn to love yourself". How? How can I know how to love myself when the love I experienced growing up was strictly conditional if at all?

You can't somehow feel love for yourself until you've experienced receiving love. Lucky people get that from their parents. Some never get it anywhere. You have experienced it with your T--don't discount that. Build on that experience. Look inside to summon up the loving experiences with your T. You do that by remembering moments, replaying them in your mind, letting the warm feeling you get exist and grow, rather than blocking or discounting it. With practice, the experience will get stronger. Let it be completely separate from any thoughts or feelings of what you didn't get from your parents because those feelings are so much deeper and stronger that they will overwhelm you otherwise.

[EDIT] just wanted to clarify that I am not at all angry at FKM. I'm just seriously frustrated with an abstract idea I don't understand and really probably don't want to understand.

I understand you're frustrated. And the frustration will pass. And I think saying you may not want to understand is really insightful. You've got a lot of righteous anger that needs a voice, and you're heading into a situation where you can't voice it. Extremely stressful. Can you use the internal sense of comfort to help you put the anger in a box until you return? Until you can safely experience it?

OK this won't post for who knows what reason without adding this!

[someone321]

Originally Posted by growlithing

I intellectually deeply understand that the abuse I experienced was in no way my fault. It doesn't devalue me or say anything about who I am. It only says things about the people who abused me. However, I still feel guilty, worthless, and disgusting.

I can totally relate to this - I know that it was not my fault but I feel something else... When I came to my T, I thought that he would convince me that it was really not my fault but their - what a surprise... He sad that it is not his role to judge whose fault it was but to help me understanding why I did what I did (or rather why I did not do anything, no fighting no telling anyone etc.)... So maybe that's the way? To not blame anyone, just to learn to understand? We'll see...

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

OK this won't post for who knows what reason without adding this!

I have a really hard time even accepting my T's love. I always question it. How do I know it's actually love or not? If I'm so uncomfortable with even accepting love, how can I accept love from myself?

My anger cannot be bound and put in a box to experience later. There is no box that can hold it. It just spills out. I can control myself enough to not attack my parents, but I can't put the anger away.

[A Red Panda]

I'm sorry that you're feeling an extra loss just before having to re-enter a hellish situation growli.

At the same time... I sorta wish your T had done this for you sooner. Your attachment is unhealthy (as you've literally viewed her as a new mom) and she should have realised it sooner and taken action to help you readjust to just viewing as her as "like a mother-figure".

I'm sorry that you have less than a week to make that readjustment.

I think in the long run this might be good for you - because you sorta have no choice now but to learn how to have a healthy relationship/attachment with someone. I just wish that you could have learned this in a more gradual manner alongside learning some self-care.

I understand that it's super-difficult when you don't really even understand the concept. And that 2 months is a very short time - which is exactly why I feel sad that it's taken until the last 5 days for your T to really push you to start learning!

I know that my message is probably going to not come across very well.. but I do mean well. If I knew how to have a healthy attachment to someone I'd gladly try to offer advice... but I tend to keep people are a very far distance and I sort of snowball to nearly-clingy when I do open up (even if I don't really show it as I keep that clinginess inside).

ETA: (you posted while I was typing so didn't see your latest) Your anger is totally justified. And I know that it's hard to learn to love yourself... but you know... I don't love myself either, but I can say with absolute certainty that you can learn to take care of yourself (emotionally and physically and mentally) fairly well even if you don't. I've learned to like myself... sometimes. Through learning how to take care of myself.

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

I'm sorry that you're feeling an extra loss just before having to re-enter a hellish situation growli.

At the same time... I sorta wish your T had done this for you sooner. Your attachment is unhealthy (as you've literally viewed her as a new mom) and she should have realised it sooner and taken action to help you readjust to just viewing as her as "like a mother-figure".

I'm sorry that you have less than a week to make that readjustment.

I think in the long run this might be good for you - because you sorta have no choice now but to learn how to have a healthy relationship/attachment with someone. I just wish that you could have learned this in a more gradual manner alongside learning some self-care.

I understand that it's super-difficult when you don't really even understand the concept. And that 2 months is a very short time - which is exactly why I feel sad that it's taken until the last 5 days for your T to really push you to start learning!

I know that my message is probably going to not come across very well.. but I do mean well. If I knew how to have a healthy attachment to someone I'd gladly try to offer advice... but I tend to keep people are a very far distance and I sort of snowball to nearly-clingy when I do open up (even if I don't really show it as I keep that clinginess inside).

ETA: (you posted while I was typing so didn't see your latest) Your anger is totally justified. And I know that it's hard to learn to love yourself... but you know... I don't love myself either, but I can say with absolute certainty that you can learn to take care of yourself (emotionally and physically and mentally) fairly well even if you don't. I've learned to like myself... sometimes. Through learning how to take care of myself.

I don't know if she waited two months to push me. She pushed me in other areas. I think that just by the nature of this program it is hard to avoid really intense transference. That's why most people don't stay as long in this program as I have.

For example, my T ran this group today where we did something called "body scans". She had us all lie down on some yoga mats, close our eyes, and say what we felt in each body part to a partner. I hate hate HATE both lying down next to someone and closing my eyes. Both make me feel super vulnerable. T knows that, but she wanted me to do it because she says I'm super disconnected from my body. So she sits down next to me, puts her hand on my forehead and tells me over and over that I'm safe while asking me to close my eyes. I immediately start crying and I'm not totally sure why. I do that whenever someone makes me close my eyes.

But it's just like, she sets down boundaries one day and then the next day is "mom" again. The thing is that she is acting within the boundaries she set. I didn't bother her and ask for attention all day so I was managing my own emotions and that is her goal. But it's just frustrating.

[growlithing]

Ugh. I'm still thinking about how difficult/wonderful today was with her and I'm just going to continue to tell the story here.

I don't think I've felt as vulnerable when I was lying on the ground next to my T in a really long time if ever. I only managed to close my eyes for a few seconds, but I kept trying despite the fact that the only thing that resulted was more tears streaming down my face. Her voice was so gentle and soft when she asked me to talk about every part of my body starting from my feet. She rested her hand on my forehead and she was there with me, her eyes filled with so much deep empathy and pain as she listened to me go throughout my body and report basically everything I hate about it. I swear it almost felt like my harsh words about myself cut her as badly as they cut me. She knew I hate my body, but I had never articulated it to that extent. She asked me to find something that I like about my body. I said I like how the organs function properly. She smiled and said I have a cute nose which I have never heard before.

Right after the group, I found her making tea in the kitchen. I walked up to her. She smiled at me with this wildly playful smile that strongly articulated that she thinks my ridiculousness is endearing.
Me: "hi."
T: "hi"
Me: "I saw you and I came over here and I don't know why"
T: *laughes* "Did you come here to tell me that you hate me for pushing you so hard with that last group?"
Me: "No. Maybe I came over here to tell you that I love you for staying by my side"
Her eyes got all soft again and even though she didn't say it back, I know it was mutual. Well, at least I think I know it was mutual. She said she wished she could have stayed with me longer and she was really proud of me for trying so hard.

It's just moments like this that are so sweet I have a really hard time believing I interpreted the situation incorrectly. Why would she pull me in like that but then set up boundaries? Moments like that feel like they are leading me on, but I know it really isn't. We can still have affectionate moments/days despite the fact that I can't be her literal daughter. It's just so hard for me to accept that even though I can't have this relationship be the full maternal figure I envision in my mind, it is still okay. I want the entire experience or I discount what I perceive to be a partial experience because that moment we had today was by no means a partial experience and I need to stop trying to reanalyze it, looking for her rejecting me.

[feralkittymom]

Originally Posted by growlithing

We can still have affectionate moments/days despite the fact that I can't be her literal daughter. It's just so hard for me to accept that even though I can't have this relationship be the full maternal figure I envision in my mind, it is still okay. I want the entire experience or I discount what I perceive to be a partial experience because that moment we had today was by no means a partial experience and I need to stop trying to reanalyze it, looking for her rejecting me.

Can you hold onto this? Can you resist the urge to tear it down? Can you relax into it, let it rest in your core? I really believe it will help you over the next few weeks if you can. I hope you will.

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by feralkittymom

Can you hold onto this? Can you resist the urge to tear it down? Can you relax into it, let it rest in your core? I really believe it will help you over the next few weeks if you can. I hope you will.

I'm trying to hold onto it. I really am. I just hope that I don't get so wrapped up in being in that hellhole that it slips away.

[A Red Panda]

Originally Posted by growlithing

It's just moments like this that are so sweet I have a really hard time believing I interpreted the situation incorrectly. Why would she pull me in like that but then set up boundaries? Moments like that feel like they are leading me on, but I know it really isn't. We can still have affectionate moments/days despite the fact that I can't be her literal daughter. It's just so hard for me to accept that even though I can't have this relationship be the full maternal figure I envision in my mind, it is still okay. I want the entire experience or I discount what I perceive to be a partial experience because that moment we had today was by no means a partial experience and I need to stop trying to reanalyze it, looking for her rejecting me.

This is suuuuuch a good reflection growli!! It's ok to want and wish for your T to be more than she can (who doesn't wish things like that about someone at some point or another?), but it seems you are starting to accept the fact that she can not, and will never be, more than a T.

It sounds like you can start learning to accept her for who she is, and appreciate her just as she is!

The kind and sweet things she does for you, and the fact that she cares about you? Are really nice things, and they can be given to you freely without wanting to take things further.

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by A Red Panda

This is suuuuuch a good reflection growli!! It's ok to want and wish for your T to be more than she can (who doesn't wish things like that about someone at some point or another?), but it seems you are starting to accept the fact that she can not, and will never be, more than a T.

It sounds like you can start learning to accept her for who she is, and appreciate her just as she is!

The kind and sweet things she does for you, and the fact that she cares about you? Are really nice things, and they can be given to you freely without wanting to take things further.

I'm starting to get confused again. Maybe this is something more than just a T/client situation. I mean, technically, she is more than just my T. She is my case manager, T, and group leader. I'm around her all the time.

Today, she took me to CVS. My mom is insisting that I cover my scars or else basically. I have never worn any makeup at all, and she wanted to help me find some good coverup and essentially show me how to use it. She wanted me to consider letting her put mascara on me, but I just feel too uncomfortable. I don't want anyone to notice me.

She looked through other products to help me with my skin (it is super dry).
Me: "why are you doing this?"
T: "I'm doing what a normal mother should do"
She said that with an attitude of "your mom sucks" so I know she was I guess reparenting in a way. I just don't know. I don't think that going on walks or going to stores with your T is typical while it might be for a manager/life coach. It's hard to have rock strung boundaries when her actual role isn't totally clear. Maybe she is planning on being a bit of a mom to me as opposed to a therapist. I don't know. I told her not to lead me on. She said she wasn't.

[Bill3]

You are doing well to be attentive to boundaries. You can tell her, or discuss with her, what you want her role, and the boundaries, to be. Good job telling her no when you were not comfortable.

[growlithing]

Originally Posted by Bill3

You are doing well to be attentive to boundaries. You can tell her, or discuss with her, what you want her role, and the boundaries, to be. Good job telling her no when you were not comfortable.

But I was comfortable. I was so comfortable. I wanted her to be my mom and do all of that mom stuff. I'm just scared of reality hitting again