[badoutlook]

I really like and respect my therapist. He is 27 and still in school to finish is masters. He is very handsome, smart, and charming. At least I think so. I'm wondering what is appropriate in a professional relationship. I know he tries to build my self esteem by saying that I'm very smart and saying I look nice here and there. But he has told me that he looks forward to Mondays and to our "little sessions" together on 3 different occasions now. It seems like a very sweet gesture. Then the next session he gets serious and usually brings papers and exercises to complete that seems like he's not present. I'm aware of transference so I don't tell him how much I enjoy him, even though I really like him as a person. I don't want him to get in trouble and I would never do anything to hurt him. But is it inappropriate? We are a lot alike and he has said that several times as well. Any advice or input will help. Thank you for your time

I did post this in the ASK section but it says it could take 2 weeks for a response. Plus id like to see how other clients therapists act. Thanks again

[nottrustin]

Tough one...My T has pretty much said the same things but she is older motherly type. As far as working with me she says she enjoys it as sometimes I teach her things and help her see a different perspective. She has given books on mental health to read and workbooks to work on. She says she wouldn't give them to a lot of her patients but she knows that I am capable of understanding and learning from them.

[badoutlook]

Well I've accidentally referred to him as good looking when we were talking about a guy across the hall. So maybe because of that it feels awkward? He does say I'm very challenging and if there's one client he can count on to disagree and debate, its me.. lol. It also makes it feel wrong because he follows it with distancing session. I'm not sure if he's upset that I don't respond. The last time he started with "I'm not sure if I've told u before BUT I really enjoy our little sessions.. he knows he's said it and keeps saying it. So being the smart-*** I am I replied "I think you've brought it up once or twice" emphasis on twice! He is helping in so many ways.. but I can't help think how uncomfortable he'd feel if I said these things to him. Not to mention if a coworker heard him. He's also told me he thinks about me thru the week "twice" then corrected himself saying all of his Monday people. I've never asked him if he thinks about me.. I DID ask if he let's patients depression and negativity rub off on him in his reg life. Sorry for the book. But this is really bothering me.. and I see him monday

[RTerroni]

It all depends my last Therapist was 26 (although she really didn't want me to know her age and hated the fact that I did) and I later decided that she was just to young for me, although interestingly enough my new Therapist is also the same number of years away from me (although in her case it is older not younger than me which is a big difference).

[badoutlook]

Its really not an age issue. He is super smart, wise, and mature. Very grounded. I couldn't have asked for a better match.. but at times I think he is too good of a match. We are so alike that I can't help but feel deeply connected to him. I know that can lead to problems.. transference and whatever else. I've honestly never been a Monday person in my life until I met him

[healed84]

To me, it doesn't sound like he has overstepped any boundaries or anything. I just think, it is a case of a young T, learning what and how much he needs to share. I venture to bet, a lot more Ts think about their patients through out the week more than they admit, as well as look forward to seeing some patients over others. It is just a matter of much of that should be shared? If it makes you uncomfortable- then you need to say it. If you think, that maybe it may get in the way of your therapy and your progress in therapy.. then maybe it is best to find somebody different. But- having a connection with your T can be a good thing, if properly utilized.

[badoutlook]

Maybe I should look for a new T. I do look forward to my Mondays with him and can't help but think about him through the week too. And honestly knowing that I feel an emotional connection to him is going to hurt to walk away. I do believe in fate and feel he was brought in to my life for a reason. He wasn't even supposed to be my T. I constantly wonder why I had to meet him like this. I have these very sweet dreams about him. He has changed my life in so many ways and honestly I'm happy after I see him. Another one of lifes cruel jokes I guess. Thank you all for your input. And I will let him know Monday that I think its best for me to switch. Hope he doesn't ask why =(

[brillskep]

Originally Posted by badoutlook

I really like and respect my therapist. He is 27 and still in school to finish is masters. He is very handsome, smart, and charming. At least I think so. I'm wondering what is appropriate in a professional relationship. I know he tries to build my self esteem by saying that I'm very smart and saying I look nice here and there. But he has told me that he looks forward to Mondays and to our "little sessions" together on 3 different occasions now. It seems like a very sweet gesture. Then the next session he gets serious and usually brings papers and exercises to complete that seems like he's not present. I'm aware of transference so I don't tell him how much I enjoy him, even though I really like him as a person. I don't want him to get in trouble and I would never do anything to hurt him. But is it inappropriate? We are a lot alike and he has said that several times as well. Any advice or input will help. Thank you for your time

I did post this in the ASK section but it says it could take 2 weeks for a response. Plus id like to see how other clients therapists act. Thanks again

Saying nice things to a client can be very helpful sometimes. It really depends on the situation. While it's your T's job to do the therapeutic thinking, you can certainly ask how he thinks this helps you and how come he's choosing compliments and positive feedback to help with your self-confidence (of course, if you do enjoy this treatment don't forget to add that it's okay and you like it or it helps you or whatever else you may feel - so that you don't give the wrong idea).

On the other hand, it's very important how he says these things. What is his tone of voice? What is your gut feeling about it? How come you're asking on the net whether it is appropriate - do you think it isn't? If you do, then maybe it is inappropriate for you. My T has told me numerous times things he likes about me and it does help me in a real way - I have made significant progress in some areas of my life, some of which is pretty directly related to his feedback - and it never feels inappropriate or like it has any ulterior motives other than my well being.

Yes, I suppose it could possibly be your transference. But it could be his. Or it could just be a good therapeutic relationship. Ask yourself this: does his feedback help you in your life? Do you feel good or uncomfortable when he talks to you this way? Trust yourself to know what's best for you, then let your T know.

Hope you can work this out.

[badoutlook]

I guess it feels both good and uncomfortable. He knows I have a low self esteem and a horrible past with abusive men.. so maybe it just seems like bad judgement on his part. And I would think that his personal feelings about looking forward to certain clients shouldn't really be discussed. The tone of his compliments aren't sexual. But when he says he looks forward to our little sessions it does seem a little deep and connected. I feel like he's expecting a response but I don't give one. Then our next session is followed by something involving paperwork and feels distant. I really don't know. I see him in an hour and I have a very bad feeling this could be our last session. I don't know what will happen once I don't have him for an hour every week. I am very happy with him.

[badoutlook]

Well I decided to continue. It was a very confusing session though

[unaluna]

My t is very sweet to me. Past husbands and family, not so much. I look at it as, he's raising the bar for the next one. This is how we should be treated. It changes our expectations, changes who we are. Thats what we're in therapy for. I didnt understand it either. I thought if someone was nice to me, that meant he should marry me. Which is pretty harsh, when you think of it. Pretty lonely. I didnt UNDERSTAND connecting with people.

[nottrustin]

Originally Posted by badoutlook

Well I decided to continue. It was a very confusing session though

What happened?

[badoutlook]

Sorry I didn't answer sooner.. been busy. I went in with the thought it would probably be my last visit and he could tell. Told him I was unsure about the direction things were headed. I did a little reverse psychology (to avoid offending him) I said that I think he says nice things because he's (admittedly) passive and he's afraid to just tell me he thinks I'm not putting enough effort into therapy.. and he was offended anyhow. He asked if I was calling him insincere.. and I said that's not what I meant at all. I just didn't see the point of him repeatedly telling me he enjoys "our little sessions together" & "looks forward to his mondays" he said he says it to show he's on my side (something like that) and asked if I didn't want him to say things like that. I said it didn't feel right and that it seems like he's waiting for a response but I don't have one. I also brought up a few other issues and he said I didn't have to continue if I didn't want to. I told him I would like to as long as we are on the same page. I also told him I need to stop questioning him about his life and he said he doesn't mind at all. Self disclosure can help.
So we had another visit and I still can't help but connect with him to the point that he probably thinks I'm flirting and maybe I am? His personality (yes,he show it) is so sweet and amazing. I told him the previous session I left feeling really bad.. usually I leave happy. I didn't feel that it went well. He thought it did because he admitted to being formerly depressed. I told him I already knew and he asked if he didn't smile enough (sarcastic) I said he's always smiling but its in his eyes. He said it was his birthday the next day and he's finishing schooling in a few weeks. So I ran out and grabbed him a birthday card and a starbucks gift card (ya I know) because he spilled his coffee all over himself. I don't celebrate my birthday so I picked the perfect card- lol hopefully he is ok with the cards.

[AmysJourney]

I don't know about this one.
One part of me is thinking: Be aware - he is cutting a few boundary lines very fine. Some (definitely not all) new therapists have this huge need of needing their clients to like them and they can be a bit blurry when it comes to achieving that. Some are flirty, others practice a lot of self-disclosure, others are trying to flatter their clients in ways that might not be helpful etc.
What strikes me in your post is that you are aware of how this makes you feel. You feel confused, a bit uncomfortable, it sounds as though you feel torn a little... That usually is a recipe for issues that are beyond the issues you are trying to address in your sessions.
Even the buying a Starbucks gift card is a red flag for me. I think gifts are difficult in therapy.

But on the other side, if you feel he can help you with your issues, if you feel you can make progress, then the flattery and the slightly flirty advances of your T might be a helpful way to build a healthy attachment.

But that said, my stomach feels funny reading about this so please be good to yourself and trust your instincts.

Amelia

[Mike_J]

Doesn't seem like any boundaries have been crossed.

I think my therapist is stunning and it felt awkward to try to hide it from her. Was a relief when I told her and it gave us a chance to get through all of that and move on with my real issues.

[badoutlook]

Ty Amelia that was what I thought as well. Maybe he does just want to feel liked. But I've made it very clear that I think he is great at what he does. Things are just different with him. I dont know that he is actually intending to flirt or if I just think he's charming and clever and I'm responsive to it. He made a comment that struck a cord.. "there's a fine line between a good therapist and a good boyfriend" and I said he's wrong to think that all men think the way he does. And at least his girl is lucky. I also made the point that there aren't THAT many male therapists. I think I read 10%.
So anyhow I go in to my last appointment and he has my card displayed on his desk!! How humiliating and unexpected. He thanked me (more than once) and said that he's going to use the starbucks card. Honestly I was expecting a boundaries talk or something. But I told him I felt I was mean to him about things. And honestly I feel bad because he is so nice and honestly I would say nice things to him as well. But I know how it would come across. Maybe he's just trying to make me think nice things about men again.. and that would be painful I think. Mostly because he is one in 100,000 and he is also temporary =( we actually talked again about my desire to be alone and he said maybe one day you will run in to a man who makes you realize there are good people out there and change your mind about being alone. And yes, of course I wanted to say it sure sounded like he was thinking maybe he'd change my mind and think all guys are like him. But that's not reality. And I know he knows I think he's amazing because the card said it (wince)
And I am making progress but idk if its the actual therapy or his pretty face and charming personality that make me want to do better. And if it actually him I know its short-lived. Then what?

Mike- he knows I think he's very handsome. It was brought up before. But I respect him. And its not like I sit there daydreaming about marriage or sex. Although I did want to touch him when he wore a cashmere sweater. But I like the way it feels. And ok I have wondered what he looks like wearing some red Winter Silks.. =) if you don't know what they are google em.. every man should own a pair.. my opinion anyhow!

[badoutlook]

Was kind of hoping for some input from those of you who answered. Is it possible that maybe he's trying to cause some type of transference. Looking at some other peoples posts it seems like maybe its something they try to do??

[Leah123]

I don't think there's anything concerning here. I think you're still working on a somewhat shallow level, and once you start settling down and talking through your feelings about the deeper issues, some of your concern about flirtiness should abate. My therapist also accepted a birthday gift, some will not, others do, depends on the type of therapy, the client, the context, etc.

There are not a million set-in-stone rules about therapy. Don't date him, don't sleep with him, don't touch him inappropriately.... you know all this I'm sure. Tell him what troubles you in your day to day life, and if he helps you understand yourself and how to be less troubled and happier.... good, stick with it.

The part about always leaving happy? That's not necessarily how therapy goes, though it often starts that way. As you get deeper into the harder-to-change things, or the ones where you need more clarity, I'm thinking you may settle out of this.... focus on if he's attracted to you or flirting.

If you don't ever struggle, if all the sessions feel happy and easy... that would be a bigger warning sign to me. Therapy's a bit like the old saying, no pain, no gain. Not in a bad way, in a..... cleaning out wounds and sewing them up is important, but doesn't feel good way.

[badoutlook]

I feel like I've suffered through so much pain that I'm trying to move forward from it. I tried to hint to him that it felt too intimate by asking him not to express how much he enjoys our sessions and looks forward to mondays.. I also said that I feel like I'm in the wrong by asking too many personal questions about him and his life. He encouraged me to do it instead of getting the hint that I'm trying to set boundaries for our sessions. I tried without making things awkward. And he was offended anyhow. I mainly just have the fear that if he is heard by a coworker it will seem inappropriate and he will get in trouble. And if I responded what would happen? Idk. Thank you for the input. It still seems a little odd between us. And I've been with him since the beginning of november

[Leah123]

Originally Posted by badoutlook

I feel like I've suffered through so much pain that I'm trying to move forward from it. I tried to hint to him that it felt too intimate by asking him not to express how much he enjoys our sessions and looks forward to mondays.. I also said that I feel like I'm in the wrong by asking too many personal questions about him and his life. He encouraged me to do it instead of getting the hint that I'm trying to set boundaries for our sessions. I tried without making things awkward. And he was offended anyhow. I mainly just have the fear that if he is heard by a coworker it will seem inappropriate and he will get in trouble. And if I responded what would happen? Idk. Thank you for the input. It still seems a little odd between us. And I've been with him since the beginning of november

Giving hints is a habit that is unhelpful in therapy. Direct communication is critical to success. Perhaps giving him this thread would ease your discomfort about being direct. Also, it's not your place to worry about him getting in trouble with a coworker. If you work on becoming comfortable expressing yourself, drawing boundaries, owning your feelings and behaviors, the rest will fall into place. That is very good work to do in therapy. The oddness is also partly just par for the course for many men and women who are in that intimate therapeutic relationship together, particularly when you're unused to therapy.

[badoutlook]

Ok I'm bad with words when I type this. Id say that what I said to him was pretty direct. But then I run out the next session and grab him a card and a gift and apologize for being rude. I don't know maybe I should start telling him how much I enjoy him and my Mondays? But is therapy supposed to be about a patient and therapist enjoying each others company and looking forward to seeing each other? I would have found it odd if it was the last (female) therapist saying it. Idk. Maybe its time for me to just stop therapy now before I get to emotionally attached to a man who is short-term and unattainable.

[Leah123]

This ambivilence is a necessary part of the process many would say, me included. Therapy is about being off balance and finding a new center of balance- about making you stronger and healthier so you can be happier. Something about your life wasn't working prior, and you'll need to feel off balance and unsure to find a new center of gravity.

Emotional attachment comes with that. He's not there for you to attain, just to work with closely. More and more research shows the healing you will do will be because of a good working relationship full of trust and caring between client and therapist, so.... it's quite possible you're in just the right place and need to be brave to see it through.

[Lauliza]

Originally Posted by badoutlook

Ok I'm bad with words when I type this. Id say that what I said to him was pretty direct. But then I run out the next session and grab him a card and a gift and apologize for being rude. I don't know maybe I should start telling him how much I enjoy him and my Mondays? But is therapy supposed to be about a patient and therapist enjoying each others company and looking forward to seeing each other? I would have found it odd if it was the last (female) therapist saying it. Idk. Maybe its time for me to just stop therapy now before I get to emotionally attached to a man who is short-term and unattainable.

I don't necessarily think he's crossed any boundaries, but he seems inexperienced. I do think you should think about whether you co tinue to see him based on how you feel and if you continue to feel confusion about the dynamics between the two of you. I agree that this awkawardness of what to/ what not to say is common for male/female pairings in therapy, especially if the therapist is new. I think Ts begin to develop their boundaries over time as they gain experience dealing with a variety of personalities. Your therapist hasnt had that yet, so he probably doesn't know how language and other seemingly benign things you'd say to a friend you wouldn't say to a patient. It could be good for him to learn from you, but only so long as the relationship is helpful to you. If his kindness is something you're not used to, it could be difficult for you to deal with without making more out of it. I had a similar dynamic when I first began seeing my psychiatrist a few years ago. He is handsome charming and all that. He had a lot of experience in research and hospital settings, but private practice was new to him. So he has changed a bit from when I first met him. Some of the things he'd say would leave me scratching my head, and I wondered if I liked going to him a little too much. But over time that faded and I've been able to be completely genuine with him. We are a lot alike and would get along well in a different setting, but that's not going to happen. So, I've learned to use my interactions with him to help me relate to men in different ways. Most notably that you can be friendly, get along, feel attracted, work together yet not worry about being judged or worry about sexualizing the relationship. Thats what Ive gotten out of it at least and its helped me deal with my fear of men.

[IWonderIf]

My advice - for what little it is worth - is look up the terms "transference" and "counter transference" in a therapeutic context.

It's difficult ethically for me to "give advice," so please understand that this is coming from me to you as a "peer" and not anything else.

Therapists are trained to examine their feelings and behaviors relative to their clients and to seek guidance / supervision from other professionals when therapeutic relationships seem vague in terms of boundaries. Also, we're supposed to address issues such as these with our clients when it seems appropriate.At the end of the day it is our fondest wish that in the least amount of time needful, you won't need us anymore.

"Getting better," in the context of mental health and therapy at its best, implies an outcome wherein you simply do not need us anymore. Where you learn whatever it is you need to, and come out of the process equipped with new "tools" you can use in future without us.

Our goal, at the end of the day, is supposed to be to do as little as possible / necessary in order for you to help yourself to be whole, not to start a romantic or [other] personal relationship.

In that hour, on that Monday of every week, YOU are the focus of that professional's entire world and attention, but it's because you are a "consumer" who "presented" for help, not because it's personal. If it gets personal then it's no longer all about you.

My advice... worth nothing since you paid nothing... but still, since I'm here and you asked... is not to buy your therapist a card saying "sorry." My advice is to discuss with your therapist any emotional attachment you may perceive as developing in yourself, him / her, or your relationship. It's important to understand that these sorts of things happen in the course of therapy and are not uncommon, but they can interfere with positive therapeutic outcomes.

Remember - artificial relationship, all about your needs not theirs. All about helping you to become stronger, more able to cope / deal with life / circumstances... all about achieving a therapeutic goal and appropriately terminating therapy.

If a therapist were a miracle worker, therapy would last 15 minutes and that would be an end to it. The point isn't to draw it out - nor to engender emotional attachments between the client and the therapist. The point is to help you help yourself... to teach... to empathize... to listen and to be there for you... during that hour... during those weeks of hours... those months of hours... however long.

At the end of the day though, good therapy is about therapeutic goals, milestones, assessment of progress that isn't just "so how do you feel about that" and eventually an end to treatment.

This isn't because HMO's say, "Oh, you have depression, that should take 12 sessions and a referral to a psychiatrist for medications." It is because the whole point is to help you to make yourself "better" - to help you live a "better" life... on your own... without us.

It's not because we don't "love" our clients (although who can "love" them all). It's because we're HEALTHCARE professionals and to cross boundaries or drag out treatment is not only unethical but also against the law (in terms of billing for services not needed is fraud).

Get what you need from this relationship in order not to need it... THEN END IT!

Think of therapy like chemo for the Soul.

You do it when you "have to," but you stop once you've dealt with the presenting problem (mental cancer) and achieved your goal (remission of "symptoms") by learning new ways to cope / deal with life / "the presenting problem."

If you see it as a long and enduring relationship that will always be there for you, how will you ever stand alone against what the world throws at you?

Yes, you can always go back for a "booster shot" when needed! don't think I'm not saying you can't. But what I'm saying is... well.... artificial relationship; all about you; with defined boundaries beyond which we cannot go and which, if they interfere with your progress, we / YOU should address.

Good luck and good health.

[badoutlook]

Ty iwonderif- I've read about transference and counter transference and it doesn't seem to fit my situation. But I'm usually the "therapist" in my friendships/relationships so I see where I messed up. I think he did a lot of self disclosure at my request and now I've seen him as more than just a therapist. Not saying I know everything about him. But probably way more than most people know about there therapist. So maybe I really do need to switch therapists. We've had 2 visits since out "talk" and honestly we smile and laugh a lot. Its nice after being depressed for so long. And we are a lot alike. Oh well. Ty for the advice!