[Mactastic]

....and I don't know if I like it.

I email my T 2-3 times a week and he always responds. I love being able to unload what's in my heart and I especially love that he emails me back. It makes me feel more connected and safe.

But lately I worry I'm too attached. I count the days until sessions, I often re-read emails when I'm down, he's the most important man in my life, etc.

So I decided to try not to email at all between session this time, which is a painfully long 10 days. It's hard but I want to prove to myself that I can do it. More than likely he's going to bring up the lack of emails (highly unusual for me) and I fear I won't have the courage to give him the real reason (I'm obsessed with you and I feel like that's a character flaw.) I also want to gear up for termination (which I sense is still a ways away) but I want to decrease my dependence on him somehow.

[HazelGirl]

This sounds like you're punishing yourself for enjoying having T in your life, or you're working out of a fear-based approach to your therapy. Both are toxic and will hurt you. Why can't you bring up the fact that you feel like you contact him too much outside of sessions? It might help to have him reassure you and insist that what your feelings of attachment are normal.

[IndestructibleGirl]

Do you really think you are dependent in an unhealthy way? Just because you are emailing??

I think if you are benefitting from the emailing and contact in between sessions, then you are shooting yourself in the foot if you deliberately stop just to prove to yourself that you don't actually need him. You know you don't need him to survive in the world - but you want to do better than just survive, you want to be happy, so if the emailing is helping your therapeutic process, then don't deny yourself? You trust your therapist, so trust that he too would help spot if he thought you were becoming unhealthily dependent.

I think when we're used to fending for ourselves (in whatever sphere...practically or emotionally or in all ways or in just some) it can be exceedingly hard to recalibrate the new feelings of depending on somebody. It feels wrong and dangerous, but that doesn't always mean it's true.

I know for me, relying on my therapist a lot has actually made a noticeable change to how I am with friends. I am less afraid of being vulnerable with my friends now (still intensely hard and uncomfortable at times, I'm still very much a novice..) and I actually allow my friends to be there for me. Without feeling weak or terrified that something bad will happen because I've let them see how sad or scared I am at those particular times. My friends have said that they want me to let them in, they want to help me. On a cognitive level I always would have known this to be true, but I had to learn to depend on my therapist before I could take that leap of faith and extend it to my friendships.

[MoxieDoxie]

How about send him just one email instead of cutting the cord all together. It took me a long time to accept my T's support because I felt that if I accepted in fully I would get hurt real bad when it gets pulled out from under me. I have half accepted it and he encourages me to write him and I will when I feel I deserve it and won't feel guilty for taking up his time and mental energy. He does reassure me that I am not bothering him.

Ok I got off track......anyway make a compromise with yourself. Try writing the emails and do not send them but on the fifth day combine them and then send him the email. It will satisfy that part of you that needs to stay connected with him.

[AmysJourney]

Originally Posted by Mactastic

....and I don't know if I like it.

I email my T 2-3 times a week and he always responds. I love being able to unload what's in my heart and I especially love that he emails me back. It makes me feel more connected and safe.

But lately I worry I'm too attached. I count the days until sessions, I often re-read emails when I'm down, he's the most important man in my life, etc.

So I decided to try not to email at all between session this time, which is a painfully long 10 days. It's hard but I want to prove to myself that I can do it. More than likely he's going to bring up the lack of emails (highly unusual for me) and I fear I won't have the courage to give him the real reason (I'm obsessed with you and I feel like that's a character flaw.) I also want to gear up for termination (which I sense is still a ways away) but I want to decrease my dependence on him somehow.

Hi Mactastic - oh I love your screen name :-)

My response my differ a little from what the others have said - but know I am not invalidating their responses in any way!
But what I want to say is this:

GOOD FOR YOU!!
I think this is actually more of a positive post than many - or even you - may realize. I think your experiment is great. It shows strength, willpower, the desire to be independent, the desire to be free from the obsession you describe. I think you are brave and courageous and you should be proud.
BECAUSE:
It seems your ultimate goal is to lead an independent, self-sufficient, free and good life. And it also seems you have realized the ties that the emails, the dependence, have restraint you with. You already know you can live without this dependence you have done it for 10 days. And you are still here, you are still strong and even though it might be VERY difficult for you, the best way to try to look at this is to be proud and pleased with yourself - rather than submitting to the danger, that the lack of email will become a huge issue in therapy that then might push you back into the same patterns and you won't feel good about yourself again.
Yes, perhaps the reasons for not emailing so much are because you don't want your therapist to think you are obsessed with him - well, if that was the case he probably already knows? And as a good therapist, he will probably ask you for the reasons but at the same time I hope he commends you on the strength and independence you are trying to build for yourself. That's as I said the ultimate goal of therapy anyway. So you two seem to make excellent progress.
It's okay to feel anxious about this - but I also highly recommend you allow yourself to feel all the positive that comes with this!!

Amelia

[HazelGirl]

Amelia, I get what you're saying and in some cases I would agree.

However, can I respectfully disagree for a moment and explain why?

For some people, they need to be pushed to be a little more independent. A step like this would be a great thing. For others, however, who are already very independent and are fighting against allowing themselves to need others a little, a step like this is a step backwards. It is going from healthy inter-dependence to unhealthy isolation. If it is hurting the OP (which it sounds like it is), it is NOT a good move.

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

This sounds like you're punishing yourself for enjoying having T in your life, or you're working out of a fear-based approach to your therapy. Both are toxic and will hurt you. Why can't you bring up the fact that you feel like you contact him too much outside of sessions? It might help to have him reassure you and insist that what your feelings of attachment are normal.

HazelGirl has some wise words.

My T would call this a conflict-

You have natural relational needs for this person but perhaps because of what you learned and internalized as a child about relationships, you are conflicted about your actions.

An expression of the conflict could be thought of is that one trumps the other and you continually try to suppress the need as anyone in this situation might have done as a child when needing from your caregivers meant rejection, abandonment, or danger.

Some or all of this could be on an unconscious level. If this is the case, talking about both sides of the conflict makes the unconscious become conscious. After working through the associated feelings, eventually, your behavior naturally follows, where you can balance out the conflict and be ok with it.

Maybe this is not the case with you, but it is not uncommon.

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

For some people, they need to be pushed to be a little more independent. A step like this would be a great thing. For others, however, who are already very independent and are fighting against allowing themselves to need others a little, a step like this is a step backwards. It is going from healthy inter-dependence to unhealthy isolation. If it is hurting the OP (which it sounds like it is), it is NOT a good move.

In addition to that, it might not be a good idea to encourage the suppression or disavowing needs, which can position a person to be in the same place they were or even worse, with the same problems they had before they started therapy.

[sweepy62]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Amelia, I get what you're saying and in some cases I would agree.

However, can I respectfully disagree for a moment and explain why?

For some people, they need to be pushed to be a little more independent. A step like this would be a great thing. For others, however, who are already very independent and are fighting against allowing themselves to need others a little, a step like this is a step backwards. It is going from healthy inter-dependence to unhealthy isolation. If it is hurting the OP (which it sounds like it is), it is NOT a good move.

So, is it like, with me? My t keeps calling me avoidant, she keeps encouraging calls between sessions when needed, as there is no texting or email choices. Im experimenting as well, fighting the urge to call. I impulsively called recently, and hoping, she does not call back. Is this do you think unhealthy on my part? Knowing what you know about me?

[AmysJourney]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

Amelia, I get what you're saying and in some cases I would agree.

However, can I respectfully disagree for a moment and explain why?

For some people, they need to be pushed to be a little more independent. A step like this would be a great thing. For others, however, who are already very independent and are fighting against allowing themselves to need others a little, a step like this is a step backwards. It is going from healthy inter-dependence to unhealthy isolation. If it is hurting the OP (which it sounds like it is), it is NOT a good move.

The OP said "I don't know if I like it".
To me that shows that there is an uncertainty in which direction their feeling go. And I couldn't read in the post that the OP is hurting badly, instead I sensed a certain anxiety. Which is fine and normal but it doesn't have to mean, that it is necessarily bad.
So as just a very untrained observer I think this experiment came out of a very great, healthy reason and the fact that the OP tried this and says that she doesn't want to be dependent, shows that there is a maturity in there that should be reinforced. Yes, some people may need to to learn to be a little dependent - but in a healthy way. I am a firm believer that therapy is to equip, not burden. That it is to encourage that kind of independence, that kind of desire the OP expressed. (As I read it, perhaps my perception is off)

Love, Amelia

[Freewilled]

My T has encouraged out of session contact more recently....he basically said that he would let me know if I crossed some sort of boundary but he doesn't think it'll be a concern with me....I say how does he know? I mean, I'm not sure how needy the parts of me are underneath. They're locked up tight and will be ravishing if I let them out.........I'd rather a clear "Freewilled you can email me x number of times per month." But that doesn't seem to be the way it works. It's all so flipping confusing to me! I hate the idea of bumping into a boundary and not meaning to....

Can you ask your T about it? I wish I could've been more direct about it, but I did tell him my concerns about taking up his time outside of sessions. That opened up the conversation for him to reassure me that he would let me know if it became a concern. Ugh. So complex - this relational stuff.

[HazelGirl]

Originally Posted by sweepy62

So, is it like, with me? My t keeps calling me avoidant, she keeps encouraging calls between sessions when needed, as there is no texting or email choices. Im experimenting as well, fighting the urge to call. I impulsively called recently, and hoping, she does not call back. Is this do you think unhealthy on my part? Knowing what you know about me?

I think that if it will help you feel better and manage your life better to contact your T, then you are hurting yourself if you don't.

I was so resistant to contacting my T between sessions, and one day, it just got to be too much. And for a while, I contacted her a lot between sessions. It helped me process what I was going through and helped me cope. Now I can handle most things that come my way without contacting her because having that contact with her previously allowed me to face the things I was running from knowing she was there for me. I don't need her as much, simply by allowing myself to need her previously.

[AmysJourney]

Originally Posted by sweepy62

So, is it like, with me? My t keeps calling me avoidant, she keeps encouraging calls between sessions when needed, as there is no texting or email choices. Im experimenting as well, fighting the urge to call. I impulsively called recently, and hoping, she does not call back. Is this do you think unhealthy on my part? Knowing what you know about me?

Hi lovely sweepy :-)

I think with you as well - the desire NOT to call in every situation you feel you want to, is GOOD! It means you have a healthy, independent side in you - And I know you have!!
But of course, if a little dependence is what you need to learn, what might be beneficial for you, then your T encouraging you to call is a good thing.
But these are two different things:
Calling/emailing because there is an urge - is fine but not always good. And it can leave you feeling anxious about how the T reacts and that can cause huge anxiety and it causes, as many of us know a certain dependency that is not always good for us.. What dependency is good that leaves us anxious and afraid and on edge?
Calling/emailing because there is a crisis or because there is something good happening - is healthy and encourages the right kind of dependence that can be helpful and healing.

Forcing us to sometimes reconsider our impulses, forces us to rely on ourselves and our own strength a little more and that, in my opinion is ALWAYS positive and commendable.

But that said, I have emailed and called on impulse and I am not ashamed of it. It is to realize what it really means for us that helps us discover how much of it is good and helpful and how much of it is a result of our past and what we have been told.
Learning about our impulses is a HUGE part of learning healthy dependence and independence.

But again, just my opinion and others may disagree..

Love you sweepy :-)

[AmysJourney]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

I think that if it will help you feel better and manage your life better to contact your T, then you are hurting yourself if you don't.
.

I think that is not a universal truth. I can speak for myself when I say for ME it is NOT true.
The NOT contacting on impulse, even though I knew a few nice words of my therapist would have helped me feel so much better, was what helped me to rely on myself and realize how much strength I actually have to manage some things on my own!
So I think what you are saying is true for some, but certainly not for everyone.
We people have SO much strength inside us, even the most broken ones among us. We really CAN help ourselves a lot of times.
I am not saying it is wrong to want some encouragement - God no! And it's not wrong for people to contact their therapists. But sometimes, it is so rewarding to have that impulse, not act on it, look in the mirror and pat ourselves on the shoulders and tell ourselves we can do this!

[sweepy62]

Amelia: thank you for your post, what I am trying to do, is sit and allow those feelings of want an need to call my t about an anxious moment, or an intrusive memory, which she has encouraged calling, but then again, I put my coping skills especially mindfulness.

If it were a crisis, I would call my crisis team. If mindfulness didnt work, and I was still distressed, then I would possibly call her. Im trying to develope a healthy relationship from the start, not a dependant one, where I pick up the phone all the time.
Just my oppinion, im not saying everyone who calls is a clinger.
I need self control, my t disagrees with this to a extent. She wants a healthy attachment between us, I believe it can happen, without having to cling.

[stopdog]

OP - I think you can find out information about yourself both by callng and by trying your experiment. One of the two I see does encourage me to contact her and has sounded all happy the couple of times I have tried it. I don't usually find it that useful to actually talk to her. But it is good for me to know how I am both when I contact her and when I don't.

[CrimsonBlues]

Originally Posted by Amelia112

Hi lovely sweepy :-)

I think with you as well - the desire NOT to call in every situation you feel you want to, is GOOD! It means you have a healthy, independent side in you - And I know you have!!
But of course, if a little dependence is what you need to learn, what might be beneficial for you, then your T encouraging you to call is a good thing.
But these are two different things:
Calling/emailing because there is an urge - is fine but not always good. And it can leave you feeling anxious about how the T reacts and that can cause huge anxiety and it causes, as many of us know a certain dependency that is not always good for us.. What dependency is good that leaves us anxious and afraid and on edge?
Calling/emailing because there is a crisis or because there is something good happening - is healthy and encourages the right kind of dependence that can be helpful and healing.

Forcing us to sometimes reconsider our impulses, forces us to rely on ourselves and our own strength a little more and that, in my opinion is ALWAYS positive and commendable.

But that said, I have emailed and called on impulse and I am not ashamed of it. It is to realize what it really means for us that helps us discover how much of it is good and helpful and how much of it is a result of our past and what we have been told.
Learning about our impulses is a HUGE part of learning healthy dependence and independence.

But again, just my opinion and others may disagree..

Love you sweepy :-)

I agree with a lot of your points, Amelia. Yes, it is important to be able to feel it's okay to be dependent or connected to someone-especially if we are isolated or without support outside of therapy. Also, if we are having trust issues it is helpful to have a safe and supportive connection with the therapist to help rebuild that trust. But, just as important as trust in others is a trust in ourselves, trust in our instincts. In another thread you wrote, Mactastic, about the feelings you have for your therapist. I wrote specifically that unless the feelings were causing you angst they could be seen as understandable under the circumstances. I haven't checked today but I didn't see a reply to that so I assumed that you were basically okay with your feelings. But this thread indicates that you are feeling some angst about the relationship to the point that you felt it's important to try to distance yourself, that you feel too dependent or too attached. Maybe you are trusting you inner instincts that might be telling you to be dependent on yourself too-which is okay as well. My take on your thread is that you were feeling concern to begin with-why you decided to limit in-between session contact as a test for yourself. I know-it is not easy to do what you're doing. I know what it's like to feel what you're feeling.

Every person is different, every situation is different. It's okay to feel dependent on someone-absolutely-but it's also okay to rely on ourselves too. Both choices can be scary and can cause anxiety. Wishing you well.

[nottrustin]

If the experiment is to prove you don't need her when you really do then what really are you gaining??

Do you think you might be testing her to see if she will respond to you not emailing you??

I am probably not the person to talk about this one right now...this weekend my son is away with his youth group he is 5 hours from home and staying at a host family's home whom I have never met or talked to...plus today is the day when my daughter finds out if she gets accepted to her 1st choice college....yesterday I was a mess with anxiety but I had to work and it was a really slow day. Between 9 am yesterday and right now I have sent her 12 emails and she has responded to 11 (as of right now she is on the road traveling out of state but she will check it as soon as as she arrives. At email number I mentioned being sorry if I am taking up too much of her time or bothering her...she responded if it was bothering me I would tell you....

This is the same experiment I did day in and day out most all my life. I started at the age of three until 52. I don't need anyone I could do it myself. I failed miserably! It wasn't till the age of 52 that someone said, "Depend on me. Trust me. I'm here for you. I'm not going anywhere." The new experiment — trusting — was a success! I now know how to be independent. And, it doesn't mean doing it alone.

Good luck to you. I hope you have better luck than I did in those previous years of my life.

[msxyz]

Originally Posted by Amelia112

So as just a very untrained observer I think this experiment came out of a very great, healthy reason and the fact that the OP tried this and says that she doesn't want to be dependent, shows that there is a maturity in there that should be reinforced.

I disagree with this.The extreme opposite of dependence is counterdependence and that isn't a healthy stance as such. In reality everyone has dependency needs and the healthy middle is interdependence. We don't get to the healthy state by suppressing dependency needs. For people who have been counterdependent all their life, that is suppressing all dependency needs and making sure to never need anyone, there needs to be a shift to having these dependency needs met, that is to actually be more dependent, before there is another gradual shift to more healthy interdependence, a shift that will occur naturally after a while.

That is why I think that if you want to force it, for example by pushing through pain or anxiety and then not email, that this is not therapeutic because when the time comes you will simply not feel the need as much anymore and the behavior will decrease on its own.

[feralkittymom]

I think, in general, the imperative to subject psychological processes that operate largely unconsciously to conscious control is counter-productive. It's fighting the purpose of psychological treatment and probably represents a defense that plays a role elsewhere in your life.

[Mactastic]

Originally Posted by HazelGirl

This sounds like you're punishing yourself for enjoying having T in your life, or you're working out of a fear-based approach to your therapy. Both are toxic and will hurt you. Why can't you bring up the fact that you feel like you contact him too much outside of sessions? It might help to have him reassure you and insist that what your feelings of attachment are normal.

Yes, part of this is punishing myself. I will agree there. I can't bring up how often I think of him between sessions because I'm scared he will pull way back. He has been really accepting of my feelings of endearment so far but I'm afraid if he really understood how "bad" it is he will get cold to "protect" me from feeling too attached when it's time to terminate. Termination has been a really, really common thread in my therapy. I have been dreading it since two months in and he knows that.

Originally Posted by IndestructibleGirl

I think when we're used to fending for ourselves (in whatever sphere...practically or emotionally or in all ways or in just some) it can be exceedingly hard to recalibrate the new feelings of depending on somebody. It feels wrong and dangerous, but that doesn't always mean it's true.

I know for me, relying on my therapist a lot has actually made a noticeable change to how I am with friends. I am less afraid of being vulnerable with my friends now (still intensely hard and uncomfortable at times, I'm still very much a novice..) and I actually allow my friends to be there for me. Without feeling weak or terrified that something bad will happen because I've let them see how sad or scared I am at those particular times. My friends have said that they want me to let them in, they want to help me. On a cognitive level I always would have known this to be true, but I had to learn to depend on my therapist before I could take that leap of faith and extend it to my friendships.

I'm in therapy because I don't trust people (though I want to) and people have let me down time and time again. My friend doesn't date because he says, "people are too disappointing" and I understand what he means by that. Every time I let someone in my heart I get burned. My T is also going to "burn" me because no matter what I do, no matter how much I trust, no matter how much I care, the time will come for me to terminate and I don't know if I can handle it in a healthy way I worry I'll be one of those people who hangs on to the hurt from losing my T for years and years. I'm sensitive like that.

Originally Posted by Amelia112

Hi Mactastic - oh I love your screen name :-)

My response my differ a little from what the others have said - but know I am not invalidating their responses in any way!
But what I want to say is this:

GOOD FOR YOU!!
I think this is actually more of a positive post than many - or even you - may realize. I think your experiment is great. It shows strength, willpower, the desire to be independent, the desire to be free from the obsession you describe. I think you are brave and courageous and you should be proud.
BECAUSE:
It seems your ultimate goal is to lead an independent, self-sufficient, free and good life. And it also seems you have realized the ties that the emails, the dependence, have restraint you with. You already know you can live without this dependence you have done it for 10 days. And you are still here, you are still strong and even though it might be VERY difficult for you, the best way to try to look at this is to be proud and pleased with yourself - rather than submitting to the danger, that the lack of email will become a huge issue in therapy that then might push you back into the same patterns and you won't feel good about yourself again.
Yes, perhaps the reasons for not emailing so much are because you don't want your therapist to think you are obsessed with him - well, if that was the case he probably already knows? And as a good therapist, he will probably ask you for the reasons but at the same time I hope he commends you on the strength and independence you are trying to build for yourself. That's as I said the ultimate goal of therapy anyway. So you two seem to make excellent progress.
It's okay to feel anxious about this - but I also highly recommend you allow yourself to feel all the positive that comes with this!!

Amelia

Amelia, I wish I was as strong as your post leads me to believe Yes, I want to decrease my dependence on my T and become free of my obsession but for right now it's more of a test of myself. Can I do it? What will he say? Will he even notice? How will I feel after 10 days of no contact? (It's only been 5 days...gah lol.)

Originally Posted by skies

In addition to that, it might not be a good idea to encourage the suppression or disavowing needs, which can position a person to be in the same place they were or even worse, with the same problems they had before they started therapy.

If I end up with the courage to tell my T about my experiment this week and explain the real reasons behind my lack of emails I suspect he might say something like this.

[rainbow8]

I can understand both sides: staying strong by trying your experiment, and emailing because the urge is so strong! My T used to answer all my emails, but I wasn't always satisfied with her short replies. We decided I could still email but she wouldn't reply. At one time she suggested that I don't email her anymore, that I journal instead. Forcing me to do that didn't work for me. Yes, I'm very attached to her, but making me stop emailing her felt intolerable for me.

Knowing she rarely answers my emails (except about scheduling) is something I've accepted. But I still need to email her when I have unsettled feelings about my session. I think it's working. When I can hold onto the feelings I get from being with her, and can feel them inside of me, I don't have any urge to email her. Like the past 2 weeks. Fighting the urge, when I do have it, seems counterproductive for me. The goal is not to have the urge at all, and then I know I will be okay without my T.

[HazelGirl]

Are you using impending termination as an excuse to make sure you don't get close to him? If you're afraid of getting close to people, you might be unknowingly using eventual termination as your excuse to not get close to him as well, and you are impeding your own therapy. Ideally, he won't leave until you are ready for him to (unless something comes up that's unplanned), and when it's time, it will be easier.

[Mactastic]

Hazel, the issue is that I don't feel like I'll ever be ready. He's said he won't terminate me until I bring it up but what's the point of getting close only to let him go? I can't wrap my brain around it and so I don't let him in entirely even though I truly ache to.

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