i've been thinking about not going back. in protest of his not seeing me for two sessions (because of the public holiday and his workshop / conference). that isn't very mature. but i've been thinking about it anyway. he hasn't emailed me about rescheduling yet. i guess he couldn't reschedule. maybe i gave him an incorrect email address and he has been trying... but no, i checked the address. he hasn't emailed me. i'm not going to see him for two weeks. i don't think i want to see him again... what is the point? he is taking a month off soon at any rate. get to trust him a little and then he goes away. whatever. i don't want to do this anymore.

i'm so mad.

[sunrise]

Alexandra, honey, I so sympathize. But I think you should reconsider. Sure you're hurt because of missing 2 weeks. Canceling a session with him will not really punish him, it will punish you.

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
i don't think i want to see him again... what is the point?

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">
Why? you ask. Because:
*You really like this T.
*The first time you saw him, you felt things were "right" and he was someone you could work with.
*He understands he can't talk to the others and is OK with that.
*You really like this T. (can't be said enough)

Therapy takes a long time. It's a shame your T has to go away for a month, but just think of having to start all over again with someone else. And didn't you say before he offered to do phone sessions with you in his absence? That isn't the same as face to face, but shows he realizes how important your work together is.

Please reconsider! From all you have written previously, I think this T sounds good.

sunny

[__zh]

we hear ya

we believe ya

we still want you to "not whatever" and keep any appts made now or in future

but that's only cuz we care

[nothemama8]

go to his supervisor if he doesn't answer your next e-mail, also tell him that you expect an answer by a certain date, we had to get in touch with the AMA on our pdoc once

[JonB]

I've had the same thoughts when my T rescheduled me or ticked me off. Like when he suggested cutting back on the number of sessions. But then I figure, he could care less whether I'm there or not so how is it hurting him for me not to show up?
I'm still the one getting screwed and all he gets is more time off and a passive-aggressive slap in the face to show him I'm upset about his scheduling.
I know it's natural to want to hurt him back, but is it really going to do that? Try showing up and telling him you're not happy with the scheduling lately or the upcoming scheduling problems and what can he do to make you more comfortable with that.
I say, suck up the anger and ask for what you want. Good luck!

hey sunrise. ((((((sunrise)))))). wow thats quite a list of good things about me working with him, huh. i had forgotten... but thinking on them... sigh. i DO really like him and feel like i can work with him and feel like i click with him in some way. and yeah he IS being really great with not pushing me and accepting how i want to do things (like him not talking to the others).

i guess i'm not so much mad as...
ambivalent, i guess. i feel so much. i feel so many things. the not going wasn't really about hurting / punishing him, it was more about protecting me. protecting me from him hurting me. because it hurts me when i can't see him. and even though i KNOW he isn't meaning to hurt me IT STILL HURTS. and i don't like the hurt :-(

my last t went away for a couple months... and that... is when i found this t. i don't know about the phone sessions... last year he said we could see each other more often than weekly this year but i don't even seem to be seeing him weekly. i don't know. i don't know how much i can trust him with saying things like that.

i don't know...

i need to think.

hey zen. guess i'm just trying to protect the part of me that just cries and cries and cries. i know that he isn't trying to hurt me and i know that he will come back and i know that i will see him again... but she cries and cries and cries like he is dead. like he is never coming back. and another part is so %#@&#! mad that she cares about him at all. and mad because he must know how this affects her. and maybe he does mean to hurt her after all. just because he can. maybe he is trying to provoke her into coming out of hiding so he can abuse her. feel all big about himself that she is all needy and dependent on him and that it affects her in this way. and so that part is so mad with him. for being ignorant. or for knowing and doing it anyway. for hurting her. for (maybe) trying to hurt her. and mad at her to because she won't shut up. so conflict... and bam! shut up bam!

and i don't like this zen. and i can't talk to him about it (or the protectors will hurt me / him). and i'm a bit scared that they might try and hurt him anyways. so now i think i need to back off 'cause it isn't safe for me or for him. it isn't safe. and so... it isn't good when i care about people 'cause i'll only hurt them. and i need to back off. and if i care i should just leave him alone. 'cause they'll hurt him they will :-(
:-(
:-(

so whatever... i don't care i don't I DON'T



and if i go... i don't know how to be.
i don't know how to be anymore.

hey. i'm not sure what you mean... he doesn't have a supervisor. he works in private practice. i don't see that he has done anything wrong. he said he would email if he could reschedule me but he hasn't so i guess that means he couldn't reschedule me. so i guess that means that i'll see him not this coming friday but next. he didn't promise that he would be able to reschedule me. i don't understand...

hey. i don't think i can tell him i'm unhappy about the scheduling. i'm fairly sure i looked unhappy about the scheduling. i can't tell him that i am unhappy though. because i know its fair enough. i know that already. so...

i guess i'm not angry so much as...

sad.

but...

i don't care. i don't.

angry.

i don't know how i feel.

ambivalent, i guess.

maybe what has happened is that he thought he would need more than weekly sessions to get me to trust him and to get some kind of transference going on. but... that has happened already so why bother seeing me more. part of me is wondering whether he is doing this to try and provoke me. thats not it exactly... if he is going with the public holidays and stuff and not being too bothered about rescheduling because he figures this might just be the way to get me talking about transference stuff etc.

i haven't told him that both the guys who sexually abused me did that shortly after their wives had babies. i'm ambivalent about regarding it as 'abuse' but it was an inappropriate relationship at any rate. my dad left. these guys were nice to me. wanted stuff from me. i didn't want them to go. all this stuff is going to come up fast huh. he doesn't know about them. he knows my dad left. maybe he thinks he is tapping into that. i don't know. reality check reality check i need a reality check. he isn't them he is not. and i don't need him i don't care i don't care if he leaves.

ugh ugh ugh.

[__zh]

don't care all you want....seriously! but as for the how to be? you're already be-ing.

posting, breathing, typing, being angry, being scared, being hurt, being real.....it is all part of BE-ing

is there anything that can be done from here to help with your feelings of safety? we don't like the idea of ppl we're fond of in danger.

(((((ak and kt and anyone unmentioned)))) you're all very brave to be going to therapy and to keep at it when it gets to tough and can seem like it is causing all the pain.

we know the pain is already there....the therapy can be a place to finally look at that pain, a place to express it, to explore it and to heal it.

Can you not ring him? Stating that you need to know what is going on as you have committements also that you need to sort out?

thanks zen. i...
yeah. i guess i'm already be-ing. tonight i've been drink-ing. i feel okay right now. i'm just warning people that tomorrow i'm likely to be a little flat / despondant / frantic...

i'm not sure about safety. i guess... i'm not in danger. i'm just... i don't know how to... talk to him about this. i don't know what to say.

i envisage him whining something in his self-defence 'but it was a public holiday'. sure it was, i know that already, that doesn't help. what could he say to help? i can't imagine... i know it is fair. i know it is fair enough. sure i was hoping he could reschedule. but there were no promises. just that if he could reschedule then he would email me. but he hasn't so i guess that didn't work out.

i can't think of anything that anyone could do... I'm sorry.

i don't know what will happen. i guess the most likely thing... is that i'll go to the appointment in a couple weeks. i don't know how i'll be by then. right now i feel dull lethargic and disappointed. who knows how i'll feel by then. who knows how much of this is a function of too much alcohol. who knows.

who knows how much he knows. who knows how much he cares. who knows how much he is trying to 'prompt' me into transference compared with trying to 'prompt' me into talking about it. who knows. who knows how oblivious he is. how much he doesn't care. i don't know. i don't understand.

except that it is fair enough.

sure.

fair enough.

and i can accept that.

i mean, thats only fair.

i can accept that.

but... i don't know that all of me can. so much the worse for all of me of course. but...

maybe this is just too much.

i'm not meant to be around people. forget about people. work work work abstract work thats got nothing to do with people whatsoever. who cares. who cares? not me. i don't care about anything at all.

i'm scared zen. i'm sorry. i don't know what to say.

hey. no... i dont think i can ring him. or email him either. 'cause i think he was reluctant to give me his email address initially. boundary issue. we have never talked about what i am to do in a crisis (not htat i'm in one) but we have never talked about that. i guess i have his number in public and private practice. i'd get his secretatries though. would need to leave a message no doubt.

i don't think i'd use his email address...

firstly... there is the point that his wife might be reading because it is his personal address. i don't like the thought of that. i have no idea what she does. i have no idea whether she thinks about crazy people who contact her husband. he said he hasn't emailed clients before. i guess i'm really very concerned about respecting boundaries. he seemed reluctant to give me his address... then he did... i don't want to let him down / breech the boundaries.

i guess the motto is 'don't send me anything you wouldn't be happy about other people reading'. and so... i wouldn't. i wouldn't. i wont sent him anything. except acknowledgement of rescheduling (if he choose to do that). but... he didn't. sorry need to sleep now. sorry.

[Perna]

You gotta talk with (not "to") him! It sounds like you have a whole lot of "thinking" happening but haven't had a conversation on the subject where you check out how true some of your thoughts and "impressions" are. Thinking you "looked" unhappy, for example. The man is not a mind reader and can't know the extent of your anger and unhappiness and obviously doesn't know about your anger because you haven't told him because it is happening "now."

Work on the other side of the equation, what do you expect the guy to do? He has to go to the meetings, they're often "school" related - he has to take classes/courses/meetings every year to keep his license (my T had to change the day our sessions had been every week for 5 or 6 years!) and he doesn't get to pick what day/time/date they'll be. He's not missing seeing you for spite; it's not personal. Use the time apart from him to reassess how you cope and what you actually feel and what's going on with you on your own? You are going to that other city soon, this is a good opportunity before you go to start thinking/experiencing what it will be like on your own and figure out what you want to work on in the remaining time with him?

[Rapunzel]

Alexandra,

Your feelings are okay, whatever they are. Feelings are not right or wrong. They just are. You can feel sad, mad, disappointed, scared, or other feelings too, and it is okay. It is too bad that your protectors won't let you talk about those feelings. Someone in your past must have hurt you for talking about feelings. Am I right? But remember that T does want to help you, and he isn't going to hurt you. I know it is hard because we hold our feelings tight when we have been hurt or invalidated in the past.

I am reading another book that maybe you would like. It is "Heartwounds: The Impact of Unresolved Trauma and Grief on Relationships" by Tian Dayton, PhD. I haven't gotten very far yet, but one of the points that I have gotten out of it so far is that if we have unresolved hurts from the past, we keep reenacting them in the present, often without recognizing that they are feelings from the past. Do you think that you are doing that now? It sounds really significant to me that you have had people leave you after their wives had babies. No wonder that bothers you.

I know that it is hard to go without seeing T for a long time. It is hard even without it paralleling your past experiences so much, which must really intensify the fear and hurt. If T gave you his email address, he must have decided that it was okay for you to email him. Maybe you could just email him that you are having a hard time with not knowing about rescheduling, and you need to talk to him or know something? Is part of your fear that he might not respond?

TC,
Rap

hey. i know he isn't a mind reader. i think he does know that i feel upset about him having time off. i'm pretty sure he does know because i let a little of the emotion through. i learned about that in dbt. about letting a little bit of the emotion through in ways that other people can understand. that being said i guess it is possible that he doesn't know. i do tend to numb out. come across as perfectly fine even though i'm not feeling so fine inside. but i'm pretty sure he does know because he has become really very good at detecting when i'm not feeling so good inside. mostly he says 'whats going on' or 'whats up' or 'what happened' when something is going on. not always. but mostly. he doesn't know how much this is getting to me. i don't want him to know how much. because i know it is perfectly understandable and fair that he takes the time off. i understand that. and the last thing i want is a little lecture on how it is okay for him to be doing that. i know it is okay for him to be doing that. it is just that it doesn't FEEL okay.

it doesn't FEEL okay. and sure i tell myself that it is understandable and the like and sure i try and focus on that. but that doesn't stop kt from crying and that doesn't help me FEEL okay.

yeah i imagine i do need to talk with / to him. but... i don't know what to say. i don't want him to think i'm trying to emotionally blackmail him / manipulate him into not taking the time off. i don't want him to give me a little lecture on how it is perfectly reasonable for him to take the time off.

what do i want from him?

i don't know. thats why im thinking about not going back, you see...

[sunrise]

Rapunzel, I just worked through some stuff recently with my T about past trauma that was holding me up in therapy. I also have other past trauma affecting a major life event now, so I can totally relate to what you wrote. I think the book you recommended is one I would like to look at too. Thanks for the recommendation.

The author, Tian Dayton, wrote another book that I really like called Daily Affirmations for Forgiving and Moving On: Powerful Inspiration for Personal Change. I found this book very inspiring. Each page has a different affirmation/topic. You can read 1 at a sitting or 10 or the whole book. I found Dayton, who is a psychodramatist, to be very insightful. A lot of what she wrote was directly relevant to what I am going through and very helpful. In fact, I think I need to go read some Tian Dayton right now!

sunny

P.S. maybe we should have a book thread in this forum where people can post about books they have found helpful. I've found a number of good suggestions from people here.

hey. my mother used to laugh at me if i told her about my feelings. she would laugh at me and then tell her friends what i had said and they would all have a good laugh at me. and i'd feel really dirty and stupid and embarrassed and ashamed. if she wasn't laughing then she was telling me i was stupid or that i wasn't feeling that or something like that. it is hard for me to talk about some of my feelings. not so much in a daily context. but when the feelings are very intense. or when i'd be mortified if the person laughed or told me that i wasn't feeling that. then in therapy... cognitive restructuring was kind of the same thing again. my feelings were bad and i needed to change them in order to be an acceptable person. not only that but having my feelings was supposed to logically entail having irrational / illogical / distorted thoughts. so... i learned not to say anything that t could jump on and beat me over the head with. i do find it hard yeah.

they didn't leave me after their wives had babies... they got a little too friendly with me after their wives had babies. basically... my father never showed much interest in me. he was avoidant in general i guess. i always longed to be closer to him because he never called me names or physically hurt me. but he couldn't even look at me really. then he left. and i was mortified. felt like i was breaking up. my mother was abusive. then when i got older i started going to homegroup. i got on really well with our homegroup leader and also got on really well with the other kids in the homegroup. he got a little too friendly with me after his wife had a baby. i... i was so flattered he showed an interest in me at all. he would talk to me about my feelings and my thoughts and my opinions. what i was studying. he would smile at me. of course in the end things turned bad and we didn't see each other anymore. later i felt pretty messed up about it. i kind of gave him my heart. at 14. pretty messed up about it. i was just so lonely. so lonely. i didn't want him to leave me. and a while later a similar thing happened again. and i guess i got this message that thats what you have to foster if you don't want people to leave. or something. i don't know. sick sick sick. i don't sleep with people (though part of me does) but i don't. i don't want to. i don't like that. because i won't be with anyone who wouldn't be with me if it wasn't for that. but who am i kidding... who would want to be with me? basically... i don't do relationships. i figure i'll always be single. that is fine with me. work work work work work being a housewife isn't in my nature anyway lol. and sacrificing my career... i don't think so... and looking after kids... nuh uh... i'd %#@&#! them up for sure. basically... i don't do intimacy.

i think i've lost the email address.

why won't i email him... um... because i'm really really really really really careful about boundaries. i've had people think i was a boundary violater by definition (by virtue of dx). i try to be really really really very careful and sensitive about that. but i asked if he could email instead of phone if he rescheduled. and he said ok but he would have to give me his home account because he was having problems with his others. i said he could give me his address later after he had sorted that out. he said it was okay he would give me that one. that even though it was a joint account his privacy was respected. i didn't want to take it. but he said it was okay. it does feel like encroaching on his personal life and i don't like that. also... i don't want to know too much about him i don't want to know. i worry i'll lose time and do something stupid (email his wife? who knows). i just wish i didn't know anything about any of this. i don't want to hurt him. i wish he wouldn't give me the power. lalalalala i don't want to know. he didn't even need to give me his address. i just needed to give him mine.

maybe...

maybe...

he does want me to email him. or at least he has decided it is okay if i email him.

my heart is sinking. i don't like this. i don't. i don't like it. at all.

[Rapunzel]

I am sorry that your mother was like that. I can relate. In fact, that was what I talked about today in therapy - my family not allowing me to have my emotions. It's hard to get over that. I felt bad for feeling what I did too, and I still can't go there, as far as the feelings. It's been a long time, too.

So, are you worried that T might get too friendly with you after the baby?

Boundaries are important. Remember that they can need adjustment in two directions. Some keep too many people out, and some let too many in. It's good to respect boundaries, but remember that boundaries are there to protect you, not the other way around. It doesn't sound like you are going to have a problem with violating T's boundaries. I know it is still hard though. How about telling him "I know that it is okay for you to go away on a trip, but it still doesn't feel okay to me." Then he should know that you don't need a lecture, just in case he is prone to lecturing (which it doesn't sound like he is).

We're here for you.

Rap

thank you. i guess i'm feeling really messed up. i get the idea that you don't need to do anything at all to upset people they get upset all by themselves. i think he knows the 'reality' side of things is fairly upsetting to me. i think that is why he is careful to emphasise the reality side of things. i don't much like realities typically. i don't think he knows that his realities are as triggering for me as they are. maybe... i guess he knows they are triggering for me but he really isn't sure what that is about. so he is waiting for me to be able to trust him enough to say something.

he is taking a month off from the time his wife delivers. in a way that is good because it means he won't be around me at that time. not that i think i'm 'all that' or anything but i really do think that would be very hard for me. but that is bad because part of me feels like he will be abandoning me for other people who he actually cares about. thats why part cries and cries and cries. about feeling abandoned. but it is good that he won't be around then, yeah. i feel dirty. i worry a bit too because i worry about missing time. it doesn't happen very often but sometimes (when i'm very distressed) i miss time and find i've done things. i've done attacking things etc before and so i worry that some of that might get triggered. i don't know how to tell him that he does need to be careful about that without scaring him off.

disorganised attachment, huh. long to pull him closer with one hand and need to beat him off with the other. i'm surprised about the intensity of the feelings. kind of. kind of surprised. but then kind of not surprised if that makes any sense. it is so hard to be objective about oneself. it is so hard to see how to integrate all these feelings. i don't see how to integrate them without basically viewing myself as being this big incoherant muddled mess. i've used this metaphor before: i can be like a cat that has been just let out of a bag that someone tried to drown me in. grateful and all claws grateful and all claws all muddled up together with such intensity i feel paralysed. and i kind of have to keep it that way to make sure i don't lash out. i hope he is strong. i hope he is strong. i hope i won't be too much for him. because i'm too much for me sometimes and i don't know how to contain this.

yeah about boundaries. i guess i swing between the extremes. hard to keep them solid but flexible. another metaphor. this time to do with intimacy. sometimes it is like i want to cling. to be rocked like a baby. to be held. othertimes i need to get away. to shove hard so they back off. to run to run away. and for them to just kind of stand there solid with their arms on my shoulders so i can't encroach and i can't flee. this is metaphoric not literal. hitting and hating and running and screaming. damn. damn. damn i hate this.

what to do to make the feelings less intense? i have no idea. i need the feelings to reduce in intensity before i can share any of this. maybe some time will do that. some time away. i don't know. i'll see how i am in a couple weeks.

[biiv]