isn't it funny how for so long i wanted a t... wanted a t... wanted a t to talk to me... then when i actually do get one i'm terrified. part of me cringing in the corner. and the nicer he is the more that part of me cringes in the corner.

stuff comes up fast. he seems to have the hang of the paradoxical nature of it all... don't push me and i'll start pushing myself. don't give homework just give suggestions and i'll methodically apply myself to it. the more he is happy to keep things light the more the parts inside plunge into the depths.

its scary. scary scary scary. need to lighten it somehow. i've been meaning to write to him. but... it is a little too much a little too far. trouble is that where i'm at right now i see two options: i withdraw and receed a little... a little bit sullen. a little bit distant. or i tell him whats going on and he will explore it and then the terror etc will amp up. maybe... right now... to care for myself... what i need to do is trust him enough to cope okay with the withdrawal and sullenness. that his sheer niceness will result in that melting anyway. maybe maybe maybe i have to be careful 'cause things can move a bit fast.

[__zh]

yep....what we want can change once we get it. funny, eh?

but makes a lot of sense in the therapeutic relationship....especially given the history you've shared on board about where you're coming from.

this is a huge amount of trust to attempt to do. takes guts to keep at this when it is so scary scary scary scary.

be sullen and distant......he'll be able to weather that. that much we know.

thanks for your ongoing insights into your journey and your process. helps to read. sorry we're not more of a contributor.

[(JD)]

Sorry to hear this. IMO you simply MUST NOT do "therapy work" outside of the session...just maintain the status quo and allow the T to help you through this part of your path? TC

hey zen. yeah... i wanted a t. and now, finally, i've got exactly what i wanted. sometimes i feel like i need to pinch myself. he seems a little too good, too good to be true. i know he isn't perfect. he surprises me at times. yeah, part of my feeling like this is idealisation, no doubt, but it still feels too good to be true. like i need to pinch myself. i'm so very happy that i'm working with him.

but... yeah. now i have someone to do the hard work with. which is what i wanted for so long. before i could rail because i really really really really really wanted to do the hard work but nobody was there to help me along (i mean therapy wise). but i can't rail at that anymore. now i'm at the point where he is there and he is willing to help me with it and now it is down to me. and now i'm realising just how hard this hard work is going to be. just how damned hard it is.

i think he will be okay with a little bit of sullenness and distance. i think he will be okay. i'm fairly sure he will be okay. but then... sometimes you need to experience things over and over to come to really grasp that yeah, it will be okay. i read something about how in the initial phases therapy can be a succession of little tests. little tests and little assessments on how things pay off. and i guess that is right with respect to how therapy goes in the initial stages for me. but then there is a little more to it as well. there is the building up of a common language and understanding. we are still getting to know each other with respect to that. building up that base of background common knowledge. building up our ability to communicate. so yeah, maybe the distance and sullenness can be one of those little assessments. to see how that goes. because i guess part of my worrying about writing to him was fear that he would terminate me or jump back himself if he sees me backing off.

but then on the other hand... there are some things i want to say about boundaries... so maybe i'll do this yet. i guess it is about phrasing it carefully so i say what needs to be said and maybe not tell him about kt's reactions just yet...

thank you zen. you do contribute. more than you know. thanks so much for what you have contributed. i'm sorry... i'm not there for you more. (((((zen))))) helped me so much, thank you

hey sky. i'm not too sure what you mean... i know i have a tendency to 'over analyse' stuff at times. but then other times my analysing stuff is what seems to really help the therapy process along.

i was... going to not go back. so then i started trying to figure what that was about. why was i feeling like i didn't care and like i didn't want to go back? because i was scared he was going to hurt me, because he WAS hurting me. because of his taking time off. and also some confusion around boundaries. some scariness around his giving me his personal email address and telling me so much about his personal life (about his wife having a baby).

and so... what am i going to do about it?

if i try and talk to him about it next time... we might get to it or we might not. we are still getting to know each other on that front, you see. when i'm trying to talk about something that it hard it can take me a while to 'warm up' and figure out a way into talking about the stuff that is hard. as part of the 'warm up' i tend to ramble for a while fairly unemotively. and they tend to figure... their natural response seems to be... that i'm trying to avoid whatever it was that we were talking about previously. but that (typically) isn't the case. it is more that i'm avoiding the previous because i don't think it will be as beneficial to talk about as what i want to talk about. and i'm trying to get to it, i'm trying... but it is hard. and often times they bring the conversation back to the previous (thinking i'm avoiding) and so i don't get the opportunity to work through the ramble and find a way to home in on what is bugging me.

so i'm not sure we will get to it in session. and i'm not sure i know what to say about it at any rate. because i want to say things about the boundaries (for the most part) and about how it is hard for me when he goes away without falling apart with the vulnerability / terror that lies behind those feelings. just need some acknowledgement of the boundary thing so we are on the same page. and some acknowledgement so that it is common knowledge that i don't like his having time off / changing the schedule and that IS hard. no more needs to be said about it. not yet. not yet. later sure but not too much too fast. just need to get this out there.

thanks.

I understand what you mean about the pace. Do talk to him about it, even if it's just about the way that sometimes you want to speed up, sometimes you want to slow down. He can cope with anything you put out there and you don' t have to censor or edit; anything and everything can be talked about.

I'm curious: are you wanting to withdraw and be sullen to see if he will care enough to encourage you or will show interest in delving in... is it a test for him?

ECHOES

not a test, i don't think. i think it is about protecting myself from the inevitable hurt of him simply not being able to meet the needs of certain parts.

but yeah i guess it would be nice if he implicitly understood that...

because sometimes t's back off themselves (kind of react the same) or beat you up a little or whatever.

self protection i guess.

though maybe a little test as to how he handles my variety of self protection. dunno. like i said i was thinking of not going back... but i figure thats not very mature. if i do go back i think i will be a bit withdrawan. i know that isn't very mature either... but sometimes it is about making the best of a crappy situation i guess.

[Talulah]

I say, go back. My t always says that this is a relationship and we need to weather the ups and downs together, even if we get mad at eachother. What you just said in your last post about the "inevitable hurt" and your need, tell him this and if it's too hard, write it just like that to him. I went through the same thing almost exactly!

Ya know, it's all a windy road in therapy and it's ok to be sullen, or immature or whatever. It ebbs and flows for me. Sometimes I'm lovin' the direction we go and feel like she gets me, and we really engaged in session. Then I have another like that. Then, I have 4 or 5 without that feeling and I get really discouraged (like now). It's hard to always connect and "engage" in therapy every time.

If you don't go back, things will remain the same. And, they won't come after you (which sucks). So, fall into the transference and fall out of it like I do if you need to. But, try to tell him how you're feeling, you might get greater relief if you do. They are resilient and handle many curve balls. Nothing you feel is ever wrong so be immature or mature, or whatever you want, whenever you want!
Let us know what happens.....

Hey. Thank you. It is always nice to hear people understand where you are coming from. I think partly why I'm scared is because I don't want to switch in sessions. The vulnerable feelings are really hard for me, though. I'm worried that I'm not able to express them without switching. And I really don't want that to happen. Mentioning something can be different from talking about it, though. I need to mention this, yeah. I know there are more options than two. So far I have these options:

1) I can dissociate from the feelings of hurt / vulnerability. I really do think that this will result in my coming across as a little aloof and distant, however.
2) I can try and mention them really very gently. Just briefly. Try and mention it but numb a bit from feeling it and make sure I don't switch. I guess this is likely to result in my coming across as a lot anxious and probably also aloof and distant. I guess that he will be more likely to see the reason for the aloofness / distance here than if I do the first option, though.
3) I can write to him. The advantage of this is that I can work on it to convey the right degree of vulnerability and there won't be a danger of switching. I think... This is probably the best bet. I want to be careful in what I say about the boundaries thing too. Want to be careful that he isn't going to be freaked about having said / done what is past already.

Yeah the degree of intimacy changes over time, huh. I guess people vary with respect to how much they need / can tolerate over time too. I know I surely do.

Thank you.

[Rapunzel]

Writing can be a good option, especially if you can't get an appointment for a while. Do you have one set up now? I like option #2 also. You aren't expected to be perfect all of a sudden. It's okay if you are anxious, and even numb, especially if you can talk about it. It is scary for you to show any vulnerability, even (or especially?) to T, isn't it? I know that you don't want to switch in front of him, but I had thought that you mostly didn't want to be expected to switch. If you did happen to switch though (just on your own), then what would that mean to you? Do you think that T wouldn't be okay with it? Would you be embarassed? And why? Do you think that he wouldn't deal with that appropriately?

There are lots of ups and downs in therapy, and it gets really rough when that relationship means so much to you. I never experienced that before my current T. There was never that intensity with the others. I wonder if having those ups and downs and that intensity is how you know that this time it's doing something? What do you think?

i think we are supposed to meet this friday. i seem to have developed a mental block with respect to the writing si it might just be the case that option two it is. or if that doesn't work out then i guess i'll revert to option one. i guess it is possible that he will want to talk about it and thus he will provide a way in to the topic which would really help me along at this stage. but yeah, i'll go. took a while but i think i am well and truely over the 'i just won't go' option.

i don't want to be expected to switch for the reason that i don't want to switch in sessions. i think i can do a fairly good job of preventing that but i would really not be able to cope if he was attempting to instigate it by calling on them (for example) or if he really tried to force it. i think that if he really tried to force it i would try and find someone else to work with.

why don't i want to switch in sessions? because i'm afraid. afraid of different things with different parts.
- i'm afraid kt will bound across the room into his lap and throw her arms around his neck. i'm not too sure how old she thinks she is... sometimes i think she is about seven but sometimes she thinks she has the body of a three year old. if she were to try and do that yeah he could react badly. that wouldn't be good. rejection. another thing that could happen would be that she would realise that she isn't the size of a three year old after all and then one of the others would come out...
- i'm afraid a. will try to seduce him. he might go along with that (which would be bad) or he might not. that wouldn't be good either. rejection. she is capable of anger / rage too.
- i'm afraid w. will let loose with the verbal attack.
- i'm afraid j. will scream. and scream. and scream.

basically... i don't want them acting out. i think the fairly 'standard line' on treating this kind of thing is for the therapist to get them to act out. get them to act out... then work on bringing their acting out into the conscious awareness of the aspect that presents for treatment (me). basically, i want to do things differently. i want to work on bringing their thoughts and feelings and opinions and desires into the conscious awareness of the aspect that presents for treatment (me). but i don't see why it has to start with the acting out. see... my not going to session would be a case of my acting out. i think it is important to prevent acting out as much as possible and work on more healthy ways of communicating (i.e., verbally) right from the very beginning...

i'm also scared that i'm making up stories after all. that that will be the upshot. that he will be frustrated and mad with me and he won't want to work with me anymore. what if they don't come out? what if they aren't so very different from me? i'm terrified i'm making up stories half the time... i don't want to do this. ever. ever ever ever. therapy is about stopping their acting out not promoting it IMHO and i don't see why one has to promote it initially in the effort to curb it.

the intensity is basically what people are getting at when they say that transference is necessary for therapy. not all theorists think that transference is necessary, but i really think that for those who think transference is necessary what they are really getting at is the emotional involvement (cathexis?) is necessary. the emotional intensity.

i don't really read up on 'my diagnosis' anymore. kind of given up on diagnoses as being particularly meaningful. instead i just read and reflect on me and my situation and take from it what i can. there is something called 'inability to mentalise when the attachment system is active'. basically the notion is that the person can be very capable of healthy relationships. appropriate interactions, etc etc. but: when they really really really really really care about someone (when the attachment system is active) then the abilities seem to just fly out the window. so you might be able to have okay relationships with friends and acquaintances and not have so very many paranoid thoughts (might be able to deal with them very well indeed). but when the attachment system is active one just can't seem to deal with them. the person is going to leave / hurt you. and you can't seem to deal with it the way you can when the attachment system is not active.

so therapy is supposed to be about getting that ability to mentalise online while the attachment system is active. and that involves... working through all the difficulaties that come up when the attachment system is active. and that involves... the atachment system being activated in your interaction with your t.

absolutely it changes things considerably for me. absolutely it does.

[Rapunzel]

Attachment sure does complicate things, doesn't it? No wonder sometimes it is easier to avoid it, dissociate, or even run away.

I don't think that you are making anything up. I am sure that your T doesn't think you are either, if he knows you at all. Why would anyone want to make that up? And as in control as you always seem to be, no wonder it is scary to think that one of the others might come out and act up. While the acting out itself may not be a necessary part of therapy, I do think that you understanding it and understanding why it happens is important. I don't know that it would be necessary for the others to make an appearance during a session, but if that did happen, I think that it would not be as bad as you fear. But then, that may be something that you should discuss with your T when you can - that possibility that you might switch. I think that part of what you may need to learn is to let go of some of your control.

I do wish you well. I hope that you can talk about what you need to, and feel good about it. I hope that you can maintain enough control, but also let go of enough to work though what you need to.

I learn so much from you. Thank you for sharing your struggles here with us.

[biiv]

hi alex_k
just wanted to you know i love reading your thought processes. they are incredibly insightful and give me so much to think about and absorb. you really help me.
i think you re doing a great job of working through and managing the stuff that is coming up for you. i think option 2 sounds like a really good one to try for but rapunzel is right also. option 1 is viable as well because you dont have to be perfect. if you are as honest as you can be with your T about how much you want to share and how and when you want to share it i think he will be more accepting than you can imagine. sometimes saying at the beginning of a 'ramble' working up to something else that you do have something on your mind and you would like to just chat for a bit to see if you can feel more comfortable about bringing it up might help him understand. anyway, rambling lets him get to know you better and lets you get more comfortable with just hearing your own voice in that space.
hope i made some sort of sense.
thinking of you,
biiv

[Talulah]

I like #3 because, you are (possibly) not ready to visit the discomfort of the other options. I also think writing will help you not AVOID the issue as option #1 could allow.

Dissociating may still be helping your survive, but I think eventually, your t will have you confront this in baby steps. Even if this results in switching. Are you still dealing with trust issues with him? I ask because, I feel like you are if you are afraid to switch. Have you told him this? I'd love to know his response to your fear on this. I wouldn't worry how you come off to him, although i do the same. But, once the trust comes into play, switching could (maybe) be a great way to start working through some issues.

I am perhaps, not the best judge on this, I'll admit, but from a viewpoint such as mine, one of hearing your fears, I would think to be "free" in session, to dabble with the experimentation of letting yourself go, well couldn't that be a positive thing?

Umm, back to option 3- I like writing because I can spend as much time as I want and tweak the words and feel I've commanded some control over how the information goes over, I can walk away when it gets intense and I can pummel through the words at any pace.
Ultimately though, writing means you are visiting these issues, you are not avoiding and you are bringing them to the fore-front even if it's on your own. I think this is good. You clearly express yourself incredibly well through written word. I am always amazed at the clarity, insightfulness and attention you have to detail. If you are in any way, this articulate in person then wow! Cool and fantastic!

I also think your last post here really speaks of your fears and maybe you could send it off in email or something in this way as you just did.

So, I suggest the writing because you can maintain some semblence of control and reach the boundary thing in a comfortable place without "eyes" on you or switching with him there. Then send it off-poof-your words in the universe.....
Yes, intimacy and love and all for that which we yearn for from this dyad we pay for. Funny, no other relationship will/can replicate this in society so they say, and yet they want us to react to them as we would anyone else so they can help us with the world and relationships "out there".

Transference, is it necessary? I dunno, but you have it or you don't you, accept it or you fight it (or teeter between both acceptance and fighting like I do). I think I'd rather have it and work through my issues with it in the therapeutic realtionship, than sit across from some rigid person I don't care for. If it tricks me into dealing with issues, then so be it, and if I have a ethical t (which I'm counting that i do) then she'll help me through it. I tell her I wished I didn't care for her so much and she tells me, I'm glad you have this problem. It may be uncomfortable she says, but this is a good problem to have here with me, we will work through this and it's ok for me to be in your head, one day I'll be there mush less, but for now, it's ok.

(*sigh) I've never felt this way in any other relationship. it's terribly confusing and upsetting and wonderful and intoxicating and vulnerable and scary....

One last thought here, why do you think your t would possibly "freak out"? I recommend not being afraid to say how you feel and what's up with the boundaries for you. He should work (responsibly) to deal with them, WITH you. If you censure yourself, you aren't giving him everything to work with, and then it's you batting this around with yourself.

hey. yeah, attachment complicates things considerably. i'm not sure on the 'making it up' thing... i guess that relatively objectively i think that the distinction between 'discovery' and 'creation' is fairly senseless. maybe that is because i come down a bit more on the 'creation' side of things, however. in the 'normal' or 'non-pathological' cases too, though. what i mean is that... what a self is is a collection of thoughts, feelings, beliefs, desires, rememberings etc. and what we think, feel, believe, desire, and remember is a narrative activity in the present. Dennett says 'how do i know what i think until i see what i say?' the notion behind this is that instead of there being inner facts about what we believe and desire and have memories etc of that we 'translate' into language and express... what is believed and desired and remembered is made so in the uttering of the speech act (when we speak truely or when it 'seems right'). that isn't so clear... sorry. i just mean to say that i'm not sure how good it is for me to think about them / talk about them a great deal. clarifying / making them distinct. i guess there has to be some kind of middle ground between the post-traumatic model (where there are facts about them prior to therapy - they exist!) and the socio-cognitive model (where there are facts about them prior to therapy - they don't exist!). my middle ground is that... selves just are a narrative construction. i mean really, what did the socio-cognitive theorists mean to be denying the existence of? an immortal cartesial soul? why is the discovery/creation of more than one self any more mysterious than the discovery/creation of one self?

http://ase.tufts.edu/cogstud/papers/originss.htm

ah. control. i hadn't really thought about that. i guess it is a control issue, huh. about self control, yeah. and (for a. at least) about control of the theraputic situation too. i guess there is a concern that i'm trying to control the situation for defensive reasons rather than good rational reasons. i guess there is a concern that i have these ideas about what treatment should be about for defensive reasons rather than good rational reasons. but you know what? freud built quite a lot into psychoanalysis because of his issues. i don't think this is something that one can completely avoid. just because he built something into psychoanalysis becaue of his issues doesn't necessarily undermine its utility, however. one example of this was the idea that the patient should lie down and not look at Freud. Freud didn't like to be gawped at. His rationale was that patients don't like to be gawped at, however ;-) I don't like to be gawped at so it sounds like a pretty sensible strategy to me. Hard to say whether it is the best strategy or not, however, I guess it depends on the person. I don't know if the way I want to deal with this is the best strategy for me or whether it is a defence because of my control issues. who knows. i guess it is something for me to think about... i think i have good theoretical reasons but who knows...

(i also appreciate that i need to be careful with this because i know we aren't allowed to 'debate the existence' of DID. i'll say that i'm not intending to 'debate the existence' as it is an uncontroversial fact that people do indeed meet criteria for the disorder and i'm certainly not disputing that. but i guess i need to be careful with my thoughts as my saying that i'm not intending to debate often has little effect on the way people interpret me...).

hey. yeah, you are making a lot of sense, thanks for that. i guess i'll see how things go... i'm fairly sure he will want to talk about this... but i don't know... we will see... i'm starting to get aprehensive / excited about our next meeting already. groan. how the hell do you turn the attachment system OFF do you think???

:-)

[sunrise]

</font><blockquote><div id="quote"><font class="small">Quote:</font>
alexandra_k said:
how the hell do you turn the attachment system OFF do you think???

</div></font></blockquote><font class="post">I have no idea, but that thought scares me sometimes. Because I am so attached, and therapy doesn't last forever. I'm not there yet, but how will I handle termination? Aaaaackkk!

I enjoyed your thoughts on the "self," alexandra. My self is a collection of ego states. "An ego state may be defined as an organized system of behavior and experience whose elements are bound together by some common principle." I had a dream about them once--a room crowded with "Me's", all of different ages and organized around different themes. Many were shadowy figures, and some more differentiated (less integrated) and at the fore, with the here and now "me" ("the executive") organizing them and keeping them all together. To know I can do that gave me a real boost. We've worked with two of my ego states in therapy. They come forward when there is a reason. One little girl had been lost to me for decades and now I see her and she is a part of me again. Therapy can be an amazing journey.

hey. yeah, i might try and write something yet :-) mostly... i want to be careful about what i say about the boundaries thing. see... i think i would rather not know his home email / facts about people he cares for because i'm scared i will lose control and other parts will do something stupid. thats why i'm scared. but i need to find some way of communicating that boundaries are important to me without him freaking out about the safety of his family etc. does that make sense? i think writing will help me phrase it in a way so it is clear but isn't likely to inspire fear / regret.

i've told him i'm afraid that j. will scream. i've said that already. i'm not sure how seriously he takes that... i'm not sure how much people typically do act up when they switch either. i've heard that some protectors talk big but act little. i don't know. i'm just afraid that they will really try to shove him away hard and screaming could be a relatively harmless way of doing that... so i don't know.

i'm not sure about the control thing... i'd like to be more 'self-possessed' as they say. i like to be cool calm and collected. or to show a little bit of emotion - just enough to convey the emotion then mute it. i guess it is about trusting myself and trusting him too. i guess it is a process...

> I've never felt this way in any other relationship. it's terribly confusing and upsetting and wonderful and intoxicating and vulnerable and scary....

yeah, i hear you on that.

i was reading last night... and i couldn't believe some of the stuff i was reading. people really do talk to their therapists about all kinds of stuff. about this kind of stuff even. i can't... i guess thats why i split things off... because i can't face it. i guess those people had been seeing their t's for a couple of years before they were saying what they were saying though. so maybe i'm not doing so very badly. apparantly there are only 2 papers written on the effects on patients of male t's taking time off when their partner delivers. guy patients typically handled it okay. female patients typically did not. what does he expect? i've been wondering if... he is trying to 'provoke' me into switching? not 'provoke'... 'prompt'? if he is trying to 'prompt' it with all this nasty reality crap.

i was reading this too:

http://www.amazon.com/Diagnosis-Trea...ion/0898621771

and he was saying about how it is imperative to meet them. and all these strategies for meeting them... and most of the strategies have been cut off from my t because i've made him promise not to try and summon them. i made him promise.

the guy was saying that it was really very imperative to meet them... and about how if they don't spontaneously emerge (when asked for) that there was hypnosis and a couple varieties of medications that tended to help...

ak!!!!

i don't wanna do it that way

nope nope nope

i guess the manual guy would think that my t has made a big treatment blunder in promising he wouldn't do that.

but imho... there is hope. because... i don't want to do it that way. and i think it is for theoretical reasons rather than for defensive reasons. though... even if there is a little bit of a defensive motivation... i still think the theoretical reasons are sound.

[Talulah]

>>>i've told him i'm afraid that j. will scream. i've said that already. i'm not sure how seriously he takes that... i'm not sure how much people typically do act up when they switch either. i've heard that some protectors talk big but act little. i don't know. i'm just afraid that they will really try to shove him away hard and screaming could be a relatively harmless way of doing that... so i don't know.

Are you afraid to say this to him? He might assuage your fears on this.

Curious, not sure i caught how long you've been going with this t. You may still be broaching the comfort zone ya know? I have been for 1 1/2 year with 6 months off in between and started bi weekly, now weekly, but I've just BARELY revealed some boundary issues. And yeah, I watch it too...i don't want her to think I'm gonna stalk her (esp because I'm gay and she's straight).
I'm not in LOVE with her and don't fantasize about her romantically, yet at least, but I think I'd be afraid to admit that to her if I ever felt it. Although, I'm sure she's heard it all before. Mostly I've revealed how kind she is, how much I like her and how I wish we could be friends instead of client/therapist. I will never forget her response.

She does however, reveal quite a bit about herself with me and although I like that, I get jealous that she has other clients. I think, well maybe, she's touching/suggesting, sensitively, to a possible dual realtionship thing as well, so I'm not sure yet if I completely trust where she's going. In my case, it's different than yours. I understand your reservations.

Curious, yea, good thinking, he may wish to "prompt" you to switch. He could want that for many reasons.....
1. He thinks you're ready to deal with that.
2. He thinks you may have to do that to make progress.
3. He is asserting his power in the overall imbalance of the dyad (hopefully not tho)
4. He is ready to understand you more thoroughly and to do this he would rather you "switch" then hear you talk about it.
5. He's caught onto any possible avoidance you're managing to keep it all in check.

Do you TRUST him fully????? Maybe he's sensing you don't and testing YOUR boundaries this way too.

Ahhh, the attachment, I hate it and I'm addicted to it, and I'll tell you in like maybe 9 more months, if it was truly necessary to have to implement the changes I want. Should we fight it? Accept it only as a part of therapy? Fall head first (and heart first) into it and relish it and worry later about terminations? I can't say-YET- I do manage this perception as best I can. Maybe she's good enough to see through me, but she isn't acting like I'm a loony toon yet.

Alexandra, you are such a little researcher! Love it, me to...

hey sunrise. i think the ideal situation... is that you will work through your transference BEFORE termination. i guess the ideal situation is when you decide that you don't want to do therapy anymore :-)

> "An ego state may be defined as an organized system of behavior and experience whose elements are bound together by some common principle."

i like that :-) Dennett refers to the 'common principle' as a 'centre of narrative gravity'. i'll try and explain...

what is a centre of gravity? roughly... a centre of gravity is a posited point. it isn't a physical point (because whatever particle you try and locate as the centre of gravity changes as you move the object). it is a 'theorists construction' is what Dennett thinks it is. a postulated causal mechanism (e.g., why did the chair fall over? because the centre of gravity was on the left...) similarly, the 'common principle' is a 'self' is a 'centre of narrative gravity'. e.g., why did i start screaming? because j. was afraid of something, or whatever...

i think of the 'how many selves' notion as being the same as: 'how many centres of narrative gravity do we need to posit in order to make the best predictive and explanatory sense of the persons behaviour? that is a matter of interpretation... it can be a little like this:

OO
OO

How many objects are there? If you look one way there are four distinct objects. If you look another way there is one object, however, (a square). So... How many selves make me? There is a bias for single-mindedness over completeness ;-)

I think there can be genuine problems with indeterminacy. Which is precisely what we would expect if most (or this) mental illness existed along a continuum rather than being categorically different from normality (or the non-pathological). I am wary of theorists who seem to view DID as being categorically different from other conditions and especially wary when they do not seem to acknowledge that there is thus a continuum of appropriate treatment strategies for people lying along a continuum.

People like Putnam seem to think 'one must elicit the alters as distinct self states'. If he can't elicit the alters then what? Then either the person doens't have DID (so what variety of treatment does he suggest now? he seems to remain silent). Or the person isn't ready for therapy (i see, no therapy for them). Perhaps I'm being unfair to Putnam...

I'm not sure what he could say with respect to alleviating my fears on the screaming. I guess I just keep coming back to this: I don't want to do things that way. I want to work on integrating them into my conscious awareness, sure. I don't want to work on losing even more time than I am already in order for him to build up a relationship with them and become some kind of gateway (or obstruction?) between me and them. I'm not disputing that some people present for therapy and switch. I'm not disputing that if this is how people present then there need to be treatments for them that involve the therapist dealing with whoever happens to present in therapy. What I'm disputing, however, is the utility of encouraging switching. For me, getting better is about improving my communication with them and working towards integrating / incorporating them into my conscious experience. I think that his becoming some kind of gateway between me and them will result in their communicating with me less and communicating with him more. I think that is counter-productive for me given where I'm at (with fairly good communication). Even more than that I'm wary of the line of therapy which involves the therapist encouraging switching because IMHO it is little strategies like that that... encourage switching / decreases in functioning. IMHO that is an example of people being in the grip of a theory and flouting common sense. Until the empirical data shows my way to be ineffective (or less effective than their way) i'd like to try things my way.

All of this will be made irrelevant if i switch, i suppose. i must be careful not to make this a matter of principle...

Ian Hacking's book "Multiple Personality and the Sciences of Memory" is really interesting. Really very interesting. He tracks a variety of phenomena through history... Doubling (double consciousness), Dissociative Fuge (gained in popularity due to the rise of tourism and the necessity of identity cards in France)... Change in theoretical perspective so theorists thought that doubling was unlikely and multiplicity was likely... Rise in Multiple Personality Disorder... How the phenomena came to be associated with memory and with sexual abuse... Rise in prevalence of reports of sexual abuse...

Basically... The phenomena evolves in time in light of theoretical assumptions, society, etc etc etc. People conform to the stereotype (as the apply the diagnostic stereotype to themself) and people rebel against the stereotype (which can result in a new edition of the DSM as the manual attempts to keep up with evolving symptomology in order to keep their descriptions accurate).

One thing I'm wary of: Positing trauma of 'objectively sickening severity' as a causal mechanism (if clients and clinicians both think the only acceptable explanation for their distress is abuse then this will cause a rise in the abuse that is reported). There are lots of things like that...

I'm fairly keen to try and break out of the stereotype and...

Get better.

I want to get better dammit.

And I'm not sure how much the 'standard line' is likely to help with that... Not so sure...

I've only been seeing him since the end of October of last year. And we have had a break of about a month. So not long in the grand scheme of things, I guess. I really want... I don't expect I'll tell him this anytime soon... But I really want... To get well enough to do a proper course of analysis. I'd like to train to be one one day... And you need to do a course in order to practice... Some people... End up doing about four or whatever lol. But at the moment... The way things are with me at the moment... I'm probably not well enough to do that. Because I tend to disintegrate / get a little bit psychotic with the free association thing. But thats kinda what I envisage with respect to the getting better. I expect I'll tell him one day. At the moment... Too scared he will laugh at me. I wish I wasn't such a %#@&#! up :-(

But yeah.. I need to... Talk. Talk. Talk to him.