[rainbow8]

I'm embarrassed to start yet another thread but I have to get my thoughts out of my head and written down before I forget. It also stops me from emailing my T right away.

I was so nervous that T commented about my still being nervous even though I've been seeing her for 5 years. It's true. I always am when we start, and then I calm down once I get started.

Regarding my email that she didn't comment on the teen crush, she thought it was the same subject as my asking about the purpose of the touching. Not true. My questions weren't related. But that got into a discussion about how careful you have to be about touch in therapy, and about crossing over. On both sides, T and client.

I'm not totally satisfied with the discussion about my feelings for her. She asked if I can just accept them and move on? She first wanted to know how they affect me. She said there's nothing to do about it, and again asked if I felt this way about other women. Oh, she was dressed more casually so I didn't feel those feelings today.

I said I'm afraid of her when I'm attracted to her, that I feel inferior to her, and think she's different, and why would she care about me? Yet I know she's nice. She said "Can't I be nice AND attractive?" I said "yes." She smiled and said she thinks she is both. I know that sounds a little vain, but she's not that way at all. She also brought up borderline abandonment fears. It's the first time she agreed with my BPD diagnosis that I remember.

We talked about her signing emails with love though I kept saying I didn't want to talk about it!! To her, I mean. I said I don't want her to stop because the child part likes it. I said I was afraid she doesn't mean it, she'll stop, why would she love me, etc. I think that's when she brought up fear of abandonment. She said holding my hand and signing love are both the same. I didn't quite understand that. She wants me to realize the connection is there even if we don't do it, or she doesn't write love all the time. So we weren't going to hold hands today, just have me look at her, and hold my own hand, but I asked so she did after all. Just for a few minutes. She's not taking it away just being careful.

We talked about my name too. Not sure if I want her to use my nickname, but I think I do.

I said I want to be able to accept loving her and her loving me, that my other Ts didn't let me love them, and they didn't love me in this way. She made it clear she means connection, not romantic love. Again, she said we have to be careful.

I was embarrassed, and feel like I wasn't totally there, and missed some of what my T said, but it was helpful. I feel like she understands my attachment issues and wants to help me feel secure about my relationship with her. The love and support via touch are ways to hold on to the connection, to do something to my nervous system.

In the beginning of the session, I disagreed with her respectfully. I almost burst out laughing because it reminded me of the discussions on the forum. She thought I was going to say that holding her hand was confusing, and it triggered my feeling attracted to her. I asked her if I could disagree, and told her it wasn't like that at all. It was the way she looked that triggered me, and that absolutely nothing to do with holding her hand. I think she said she worries about it, but I may have imagined that. In fact, the entire session seems very foggy now!! It's difficult to talk to your T about feelings for them, as most of you know. I feel like there's a lot more to say about everything we talked about. I wish I didn't forget some things T said or asked.

I know my post was long, but I welcome comments on any part of it. I feel kind of drained. Also a tiny bit of disappointment that I wasn't attracted to T. She looked so ordinary today. I was glad and not glad at the same time. I don't remember why I didn't tell her I can't move on. I told her I wanted to paint her. I also said I was okay if it's transference but not if it's real. She asked again, what would be so wrong if I were attracted to her. Is it my religion? I said no, it's the way I was raised. But then the conversation stopped! She didn't tell me HOW to accept the feelings. She wanted me to ask the parts something but I forgot what!

[BayBrony]

That "crossing over" stuff is just weird. I don't really get what your T means....even if you did get an exotic charge once in a while from holding hands who cares??? I mean I am gay. My T is straight, married with multiple kids. I have zero attraction to her. In fact the idea of kissing her makes me think "yuck!" In the same way I would if b someone wanted me to make out with my brother. But we do somatic work and the other day she put her hands on my ribs and boom! Nipple erection. I don't know why. Never happened before. I didn't feel anything else just that momentary charge. I was wearing a very fitted t shirt and a light bra and I'm pretty sure it was obvious. She just kept doing what she was doing and after a few minutes the feeling dissipated. My T is awesome. It just strikes me as odd. Like misplaced homophobia. it seems like she is uncomfortable with it in a way that makes it a bigger deal than it ought to be.

I'm glad you had a good session. it just strikes me as odd. Especially when you've said it's not the touching that triggered it.

[unaluna]

They are just feelings. They are not something you have to act on. They dont necessarily mean anything. It is possible for them to change over time.

This sounds simple but it can really be huge in a person's life.

[rainbow8]

Thanks for responding, BayBrony. Once, about 4 years ago, my T said she thought I was "crossing over." I guessed at what she meant, that holding her hand was sexual to me, not simply comforting. If a client becomes sexually aroused from sitting and looking at his or T, that's one thing. But if a T is touching a client and it happens, the T should probably not allow the touching. It's unethical. I was NOT feeling that way, at least I don't think I was.

If holding her hand would arouse me, my T wouldn't do it anymore. I don't understand what you think is odd about that. Or are you talking about your reaction in your therapy? I think that's why Ts have to be very careful about using touch in therapy.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by hankster

They are just feelings. They are not something you have to act on. They dont necessarily mean anything. It is possible for them to change over time.

This sounds simple but it can really be huge in a person's life.

Thanks, hankster. No, I don't have to act on my feelings but the feelings are uncomfortable for me. Well, that's the whole ET thing. It's painful!! Especially when I'm missing that at home.

[unaluna]

I would say, if youre holding hands and youre crossing over, thats not the time to start rubbing hands, but it would be a good time to listen to what those feelings are telling you. To talk it out. Instead of running away from it in your mind. You might be surprised what comes to mind. As long as you feel safe with your t. For me, it WAS just feeling safe that was a new feeling for me.

[BayBrony]

I just think the whole idea of "crossing over" is odd. I mean, our bodies respond to touch in a way that is separate from our thinking emotions. Arousal can happen in weird situations and doesn't necessarily make sense. My gp who was a man at the time once produced a similar reaction. Arousal on that level is involuntary. So I guess it's strange to me to stop touching unless you are getting aroused every single time. In 6 months of body work i had that reaction once. The last two sessions it didn't happen and I don't expect it to happen again any time soon. It would be crazy for my T to quit doing somatic work because of an involuntary physical reaction that is isolated.

Maybe it triggers me because it's a term that was used in some Anti-gay Christian literature in the 90s and 00s...to guard against close same see friendships "crossing over" to relationships of a sexual nature. Your T may mean something completely different.

To me the whole concern about crossing over seems over blown...everyone gets turned on by something bizarre at least once in their lives. ...

Ah...iI just figured out what was bothering me. It's like your T is scared of your erotica transference with the whole crossing over thing. You WANT those feelings to come to the surface. That's where the good work happens. Like hankster said what is underneath those feelings could be very different from what you think. It's not the time for your T to widen touch boundaries but for her to pull away suggests a discomfort with the transference that seems at best unhelpful and at worst homophobic

[scorpiosis37]

From reading your threads over time, I really think the reason your embarrassement/anxiety persists over feeling attracted to T when she looks a certain way is because you have internalized homophobia/shame. Sexuality exists on a spectrum. Many people have some flexibility and have experienced some level of attraction to members of more than one sex. It really isn't a big deal. What is a big deal, I think, is the fact that your attraction bothers YOU. I really don't see the discomfort coming from your T. Yes, she is working to maintain her boundaries and make sure that there is no crossing over or confusion taking place, but I really don't see her as behaving in a homophobic or shaming way. I think the reason this topic keeps coming up for you and you continue to have anxiety is because you don't want to have ANY same-sex feelings/attraction. You feel that it would be wrong for YOU. As long as you continue to feel that way and reject whatever small part of yourself DOES feel that way, you will probably also continue to feel this anxiety. I know you don't want to admit or acknowledge the possibility that you could be anywhere on the spectrum other than "100% straight"-- but I think, over time, your posts suggest otherwise. I'm not saying that you are equally attracted to men and women or that you would ever act on those feelings. I think it's clear that you're married to a man and that you aren't going to be pursuing any other romantic relationships. What you DO isn't in question here. I just think that, in order for your anxiety to go away, you need to accept that part of yourself that has this attraction to T. Nothing your T can say or do will change this anxiety if it's really coming from within you. Even if your homophobia is directed at yourself-- rather than at others-- it's still homophobia. It's still saying that there is something "wrong" with being gay/bi/sexually fluid. I think if you accepted that it isn't actually "wrong" to be attracted to women-- then you wouldn't experience so much anxiety when you feel yourself having those feelings towards T. It really doesn't matter that you wouldn't act on those feelings; it seems that what matters is that you don't accept the part of yourself that has these feelings in the first place. I think if you were willing to own those feelings and accept them-- and explore that side of yourself in therapy (when was the first time you had those feelings? who have you had them for? do they always stem from how someone looks? is it a physical or emotional attraction?) -- rather than try to explain those feelings away-- you might ultimately feel less anxious or embarrassed. You don't have to label yourself; but I think exploring that part of yourself that occasionally does feel some level of same-sex attraction (through talking about it and accepting it) might be helpful. It's really just like any other part of ourselves that we try to ignore (our looks, our weight, our procrastination, etc)-- if we try to explain it away or deny it, it's like trying to ignore the elephant in the room. If we work on self-acceptance, we usually come out the other side feeling a lot better.

[rainbow8]

Scorpiosis, thank you. I think you're right. You "know" me very well. I always deny those feelings but they don't go away. Maybe you're right and I should be more curious about them. It can't hurt because I know I'm not going to do anything, so what could be wrong with talking? My T would welcome that discussion, I know. So would I, just to see where it will lead, and maybe I could stop feeling shame about it.

[BayBrony]

Scorpiosis you are probably far more astute than I am here. And certainly exploring the feelings would be helpful. Since rainbow's T took touch away for a while because of those feelings that seemed to me like the T being scared or ashamed of the feelings being in the room and had to shut it down

I guess it seems odd to me since my T and I do somatic work and feelings are expected to come up whether those feelings are fear, love, pain, whatever. So to me the arousal was just another part of it. If it was every time you held hands I guess it might seem more worthy of such a reaction. I would not even find it worthy of mentioning to my T unless I was thinking a lot about it or it became a problem every time we did somatic work

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

Scorpiosis you are probably far more astute than I am here. And certainly exploring the feelings would be helpful. Since rainbow's T took touch away for a while because of those feelings that seemed to me like the T being scared or ashamed of the feelings being in the room and had to shut it down

I guess it seems odd to me since my T and I do somatic work and feelings are expected to come up whether those feelings are fear, love, pain, whatever. So to me the arousal was just another part of it. If it was every time you held hands I guess it might seem more worthy of such a reaction. I would not even find it worthy of mentioning to my T unless I was thinking a lot about it or it became a problem every time we did somatic work

I think we are fundamentally in agreement. In the situation you describe where a client has an involuntary reaction during somatic experience (and the reaction is not troubling to the client), there is nothing wrong and nothing that needs to be discussed. That's a "body" reaction rather than an emotional one-- and it really isn't about the client-T relationship. I think rainbow's situation is different because the feelings arise for her-- and have been for quite some time-- when she concentrates on the T's appearance and she does experience these feelings as shameful because they're directed at someone of the same sex. I think, in this case, they signal something deeper.

I also remember back when rainbow reported the conversation where her T was concerned rainbow as "crossing over" during the hand-holding and, therefore, took it away temporarily. In this particular instance, I did not feel like the T's reaction was homophobic because it genuinely seemed like she was trying to operate with rainbow's best interests in mind. Her concern was that the touch might not be in rainbow's best interests and might be feeding into rainbow's "pattern" with her Ts-- rather than helping her overcome this pattern and learn how to comfort "little rainbow." Even if the T was wrong about rainbow "crossing over" (I have no ability to judge that), I think her intentions were in the right place and I don't think they came from a place of homophobia. I think she was doing her best to try and figure out what would be most helpful for rainbow. She was also, understandably, trying to figure out where the physical boundaries needed to be in that relationship. Could she have handled the situation a little better? Maybe? But I really do think she was trying her best, and keeping the client's best interests in mind. I really think she was trying to find the right boundaries to encourage the platonic/therapeutic love between her and rainbow, while avoiding/preventing any confusion or uncertainty.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

Scorpiosis, thank you. I think you're right. You "know" me very well. I always deny those feelings but they don't go away. Maybe you're right and I should be more curious about them. It can't hurt because I know I'm not going to do anything, so what could be wrong with talking? My T would welcome that discussion, I know. So would I, just to see where it will lead, and maybe I could stop feeling shame about it.

I think this a great attitude to have. You know you aren't going to "do" anything, so you can give yourself permission to just talk about your feelings and explore them in a totally safe environment with your T. I think it would be great for you if you come out the other side without feeling shame anymore. After all, as they say in therapy, feelings can't be wrong. Feelings just "are."

[Luce]

Human beings are responsive beings, and are biologically and psychologically designed to interact, connect and respond to other human beings. We can be triggered to respond emotionally and physically in a million and one different ways when interacting with other human beings.
Maybe your feelings and responses don't mean anything more than the fact that you are a living, thinking, feeling human being.

[Bipolarchic14]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I'm embarrassed to start yet another thread but I have to get my thoughts out of my head and written down before I forget. It also stops me from emailing my T right away.

I was so nervous that T commented about my still being nervous even though I've been seeing her for 5 years. It's true. I always am when we start, and then I calm down once I get started.

Regarding my email that she didn't comment on the teen crush, she thought it was the same subject as my asking about the purpose of the touching. Not true. My questions weren't related. But that got into a discussion about how careful you have to be about touch in therapy, and about crossing over. On both sides, T and client.

I'm not totally satisfied with the discussion about my feelings for her. She asked if I can just accept them and move on? She first wanted to know how they affect me. She said there's nothing to do about it, and again asked if I felt this way about other women. Oh, she was dressed more casually so I didn't feel those feelings today.

I said I'm afraid of her when I'm attracted to her, that I feel inferior to her, and think she's different, and why would she care about me? Yet I know she's nice. She said "Can't I be nice AND attractive?" I said "yes." She smiled and said she thinks she is both. I know that sounds a little vain, but she's not that way at all. She also brought up borderline abandonment fears. It's the first time she agreed with my BPD diagnosis that I remember.

We talked about her signing emails with love though I kept saying I didn't want to talk about it!! To her, I mean. I said I don't want her to stop because the child part likes it. I said I was afraid she doesn't mean it, she'll stop, why would she love me, etc. I think that's when she brought up fear of abandonment. She said holding my hand and signing love are both the same. I didn't quite understand that. She wants me to realize the connection is there even if we don't do it, or she doesn't write love all the time. So we weren't going to hold hands today, just have me look at her, and hold my own hand, but I asked so she did after all. Just for a few minutes. She's not taking it away just being careful.

We talked about my name too. Not sure if I want her to use my nickname, but I think I do.

I said I want to be able to accept loving her and her loving me, that my other Ts didn't let me love them, and they didn't love me in this way. She made it clear she means connection, not romantic love. Again, she said we have to be careful.

I was embarrassed, and feel like I wasn't totally there, and missed some of what my T said, but it was helpful. I feel like she understands my attachment issues and wants to help me feel secure about my relationship with her. The love and support via touch are ways to hold on to the connection, to do something to my nervous system.

In the beginning of the session, I disagreed with her respectfully. I almost burst out laughing because it reminded me of the discussions on the forum. She thought I was going to say that holding her hand was confusing, and it triggered my feeling attracted to her. I asked her if I could disagree, and told her it wasn't like that at all. It was the way she looked that triggered me, and that absolutely nothing to do with holding her hand. I think she said she worries about it, but I may have imagined that. In fact, the entire session seems very foggy now!! It's difficult to talk to your T about feelings for them, as most of you know. I feel like there's a lot more to say about everything we talked about. I wish I didn't forget some things T said or asked.

I know my post was long, but I welcome comments on any part of it. I feel kind of drained. Also a tiny bit of disappointment that I wasn't attracted to T. She looked so ordinary today. I was glad and not glad at the same time. I don't remember why I didn't tell her I can't move on. I told her I wanted to paint her. I also said I was okay if it's transference but not if it's real. She asked again, what would be so wrong if I were attracted to her. Is it my religion? I said no, it's the way I was raised. But then the conversation stopped! She didn't tell me HOW to accept the feelings. She wanted me to ask the parts something but I forgot what!

What she is referring to is radical acceptance. When I was anxious my therspist and I worked on this. Basically rather than try to push away the feeling, accept that it is there at this moment. Trying to deny it may cause more anxiety. So rather than labeling it as bad or good just accept it is there. I also wanted to comment on your concern for her using love. I noticed through your posts that you like to dissect your interactions. I hope you understand that not every interaction is going to have some deep meaning. As an example, my therapist yawned one time. I did not take this action and assume she is bored with what I am saying. I took it at face value. It's normal to yawn especially if your tired. On another note you were probably disappointed about not feeling the attraction, because you like the way this feels. Maybe you feel more connected when you have this attraction.

[boredporcupine]

Therapy is something that has forced me to recognize that attraction, love, and arousal don't always fit into neat boxes like I think they should. T's tend to emphasize that the relationship is not romantic but what does that even mean? I think concretely it just means the T will not be your partner, only your T, and they will not engage in sexual behavior. Hand holding is a little on the edge because some clients could perceive it as sexual. I heard of a case once where a T got reported for touching a client's ankle with his foot. The T claimed it was to get the client's attention and the client thought it was sexual. So T's tend to be overcautious about that kind of thing because they don't want to get reported. Even though you think you would never report your T for that, sometimes clients, especially if they are on the trauma or personality disorder spectrum, can turn on their T's and use everything they have against them. So T's are right to be cautious if they want to keep their jobs.

But outside the issue of T's worrying about their licenses...romantic and sexual feelings do happen in therapy. In my case, my T is old enough to be my mother so I don't consider myself to be attracted to her in the conventional sense. But I am still attracted to her. I do fantasize and daydream about her, and while the fantasies aren't sexual in nature, I sometimes am aware of feeling sexually aroused by them in a physical way. I get the same reaction in session if she says something particularly warm or I make a lot of eye contact with her. I just consider that the feeling of intimacy is so strong that it does "cross over" into the realm of sexuality to an extent. In a similar way there have been stages of therapy where the attachment feelings were so strong that they felt romantic or erotic.

Like you, Rainbow, I am married to a man but I actually consider myself to be bisexual. I do feel a little (not much) ashamed of my attractions to women. I think it is internalized homophobia and probably residual shame about sexuality in general. I have so many female friends and part of me thinks they would be skeeved out somehow if they thought I could be attracted to them. As though I had an ulterior motive for wanting to be around them. I'm sure that's probably not true, and it doesn't make sense because I have a lot of gay female friends and I never worry about them being attracted to me or not. But I haven't even told my T that I am bi because I am afraid maybe she wouldn't hug me anymore. Again, something I have no evidence for.

Anyway, I feel your pain. I dunno, it seems like your T is super cute AND you feel really close to her emotionally so it's kind of duh that you would feel attracted, right? You would have to be unusually straight not to, IMO. I think it sucks that I grew up thinking sexuality is only good if it's towards a member of the opposite sex to whom you are married. Really it could be fun to be attracted to lots of kinds of people if there wasn't so much shame around it.

[Gavinandnikki]

I agree with all of the posters above! I don't write as eloquently and thoughtfully as that, but I wish I did.

I just want to add one thing. When your therapist uses the term "crossing over", I think that means your feelings are leaning more towards the erotic than the maternal/affection type?

It sounds, to me, that when that happens, she considers withdrawing touch and hand holding. That as long as it's not erotic she can touch you but if you become aroused, then she has to stop?

That is not good, almost seems like a veiled threat. If she can't handle erotic feelings she never should have incorporated touch into your therapy. But since she has, she CAN NOT stop now. She needs to learn how to deal with all of the love feelings.

As we have seen with several other PC members, withdrawal of touch, after allowing it, can be catastrophic, in my opinion.

Take care, sweetie. You work so hard in your therapy and have grown so much.

[grimtopaz]

rainbow - this post is about therapists in general, I'm not singling out your experience.

I honestly think that if a therapist touches a patient in an intimate (not sexual, but emotionally) it would be surprising if patients did NOT develop feelings.

The whole therapeutic set up primes attraction/strong feelings (I know most people do NOT experience attraction toward their therapist and I know it's not done by therapists on purpose)...sharing of strong intimate feelings, prolonged eye contact, all attention focused on patient, regular contact...etc

(This will make me incredibly unpopular, but I don't think therapists should touch patients - handshakes and an occasional brief hug are OK). Touch will lead to confusing feelings or feelings of love - It enrages me when therapists act surprised or aren't prepared to handle it comfortably. In particular, I believe this is a common pattern...

Therapist touches patients/is loose with boundaries --> patient develops feelings --> pt shares feelings with therapist --> therapist gets uncomfortable (it seems particularly pronounces when it's same-sex) --> therapist removes touch or all of the sudden implements strict boundaries that were not in place before --> patient feels like their feelings of love/attachment are "bad" and "unwelcomed" and makes people pull away reinforcing their core beliefs of unlovabity--> therapeutic rupture which sometimes cannot be mended.

[BayBrony]

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki

I agree with all of the posters above! I don't write as eloquently and thoughtfully as that, but I wish I did.

I just want to add one thing. When your therapist uses the term "crossing over", I think that means your feelings are leaning more towards the erotic than the maternal/affection type?

It sounds, to me, that when that happens, she considers withdrawing touch and hand holding. That as long as it's not erotic she can touch you but if you become aroused, then she has to stop?

That is not good, almost seems like a veiled threat. If she can't handle erotic feelings she never should have incorporated touch into your therapy. But since she has, she CAN NOT stop now. She needs to learn how to deal with all of the love feelings.

As we have seen with several other PC members, withdrawal of touch, after allowing it, can be catastrophic, in my opinion.

Take care, sweetie. You work so hard in your therapy and have grown so much.

This is what I was trying to say

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by Gavinandnikki

I agree with all of the posters above! I don't write as eloquently and thoughtfully as that, but I wish I did.

I just want to add one thing. When your therapist uses the term "crossing over", I think that means your feelings are leaning more towards the erotic than the maternal/affection type?

It sounds, to me, that when that happens, she considers withdrawing touch and hand holding. That as long as it's not erotic she can touch you but if you become aroused, then she has to stop?

That is not good, almost seems like a veiled threat. If she can't handle erotic feelings she never should have incorporated touch into your therapy. But since she has, she CAN NOT stop now. She needs to learn how to deal with all of the love feelings.

As we have seen with several other PC members, withdrawal of touch, after allowing it, can be catastrophic, in my opinion.

Take care, sweetie. You work so hard in your therapy and have grown so much.

Thank you, Pam. I'm going to write more later, but what I am thinking is that it's not my T who can't handle erotic feelings, but me. The hand holding is for a specific purpose, to calm me down, not arouse me. It isn't good for me to feel aroused in therapy, and it has happened, and it feels good, but triggers what I'm missing in RL. My T knows that. Holding her hand has always felt safe and makes me feel calm. I agree with my T that if it would excite me, we'd have to discuss what to do, to stop or replace it with something different. She was wrong that one time she thought I was crossing over. I hate that phrase. I'm writing it because it's what T called it.

[BudFox]

Originally Posted by rainbow8

I said I'm afraid of her when I'm attracted to her, that I feel inferior to her, and think she's different, and why would she care about me? Yet I know she's nice. She said "Can't I be nice AND attractive?" I said "yes." She smiled and said she thinks she is both. I know that sounds a little vain, but she's not that way at all. She also brought up borderline abandonment fears. It's the first time she agreed with my BPD diagnosis that I remember.

Just wanted to comment on the thing about feeling inferior when you are attracted to her. I was intensely attracted to my female T (I am hetero male) and when she looked especially good, it was intimidating and I felt like an insect in her presence. I would actually come to sessions hoping she had gained some weight or had a missing tooth I never noticed just so i would not feel this way. I could break this down, but point is I understand how you feel.

As for the hand holding thing, I have nothing to offer except that if I were you I would be confused and conflicted too. Seems like you are processing it just fine.

[boredporcupine]

I've been thinking about this a little more. Rainbow, although you don't do anything strictly sexual with your T, would you say that your time with her is the CLOSEST thing to a fulfilling sexual experience that exists in your life right now? Because I think maybe your feelings around this are saying more about your life than about your therapy.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by boredporcupine

I've been thinking about this a little more. Rainbow, although you don't do anything strictly sexual with your T, would you say that your time with her is the CLOSEST thing to a fulfilling sexual experience that exists in your life right now? Because I think maybe your feelings around this are saying more about your life than about your therapy.

I can't answer this publicly. I'll send you a PM.

[scorpiosis37]

Originally Posted by boredporcupine

I've been thinking about this a little more. Rainbow, although you don't do anything strictly sexual with your T, would you say that your time with her is the CLOSEST thing to a fulfilling sexual experience that exists in your life right now? Because I think maybe your feelings around this are saying more about your life than about your therapy.

I think this is an insightful question. If in fact this is the case, it is probably something worth exploring. There may well be two things going on simultaneously: your fear/anxiety over having sexual feelings towards a woman, and the lack of a satisfying emotional or sexual relationship with your H (or others) outside of therapy.

While I don't experience any sexual attraction towards my T, I can definitely say that there have been times when my relationship with my T was more emotionally intimate than my partner at the time. I'm sure my level of emotional attachment to my T at that time had a lot to do with what I was missing in other relationships. It doesn't change the fact that I AM emotionally intimate with my T-- but I do notice that when my RL relationships are better, I don't cling as closely to my T. I realize this is not the same as your situation, rainbow, because there is no sexual element here-- but I do think emotional intimacy is a big part of what can lead to sexual attraction.

[rainbow8]

Thank you all for the very thoughtful replies. I just emailed my T that I wanted to discuss my feelings more, and I need help accepting my feelings for women. It's a complicated issue for me, and yes, relates to my marriage. I still want to reply individually when I get a chance. I'm busy in real life, which is a good thing right now.

[rainbow8]

Originally Posted by BayBrony

I just think the whole idea of "crossing over" is odd. I mean, our bodies respond to touch in a way that is separate from our thinking emotions. Arousal can happen in weird situations and doesn't necessarily make sense. My gp who was a man at the time once produced a similar reaction. Arousal on that level is involuntary. So I guess it's strange to me to stop touching unless you are getting aroused every single time. In 6 months of body work i had that reaction once. The last two sessions it didn't happen and I don't expect it to happen again any time soon. It would be crazy for my T to quit doing somatic work because of an involuntary physical reaction that is isolated.

Maybe it triggers me because it's a term that was used in some Anti-gay Christian literature in the 90s and 00s...to guard against close same see friendships "crossing over" to relationships of a sexual nature. Your T may mean something completely different.

To me the whole concern about crossing over seems over blown...everyone gets turned on by something bizarre at least once in their lives. ...

Ah...iI just figured out what was bothering me. It's like your T is scared of your erotica transference with the whole crossing over thing. You WANT those feelings to come to the surface. That's where the good work happens. Like hankster said what is underneath those feelings could be very different from what you think. It's not the time for your T to widen touch boundaries but for her to pull away suggests a discomfort with the transference that seems at best unhelpful and at worst homophobic

Thank you, BayBrony. My T isn't afraid of the transference and I think you misunderstood because she's not taking anything away. I think I got aroused a few times maybe, in 5 years, and never from holding Ts hand. She made a mistake once and decided holding hands was inappropriate. She admitted later it may have been her stuff, not mine. Not her fear of transference or sex, but she was going through a divorce at the time.

It's not healthy for me to get those kinds of needs met by my T. She's very conscientious and careful to be sure my therapy is about me, not her. I'm going to talk more about my issues with feelings for women, sex, and touching at my next session.